What are God's laws now for?

[Comm.Arnold]

Were talking about the ten commandments here right op ?

Here is a simplified version so everybody, post millenial, premillenial episcopalian protestant, black, white chinese japanese heck even Ukranian we are all subject to.

1. Do not worship any other Gods.

2. Do not make any idols.

3. Do not misuse the name of God.

4. Keep the sabbath holy.

5. Honour your mother and father.

6. Do not murder.

7. Do not commit adultery.

8. Do not steal.

9. Do not lie.

10. Do not covet.

 

[veteran]

Were talking about the ten commandments here right op ?

Here is a simplified version so everybody, post millenial, premillenial episcopalian protestant, black, white chinese japanese heck even Ukranian we are all subject to.

1. Do not worship any other Gods.

2. Do not make any idols.

3. Do not misuse the name of God.

4. Keep the sabbath holy.

5. Honour your mother and father.

6. Do not murder.

7. Do not commit adultery.

8. Do not steal.

9. Do not lie.

10. Do not covet.

Not ONLY those though, but the portions of God's laws which our Lord Jesus did NOT nail to His cross. We're told what that is in Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2. Christ specifically nailed the commandments contained in ordinances to His Cross. God's other commandments like the Ten you mention, along with non-ordinance commandments, like to love thy neighbor as thyself, etc., and the judgments and statutes still apply.

Apostle Paul covered the existence of many of those still existing judgments and statutes per this...

1 Tim 1:8-10
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
(KJV)

This is why those who become criminal outlaws, do murder, rape, manslaughter, prostitution, kidnapping, public libel, perjury in courts, etc., are still subject to those laws. Not long ago in Christian society those who acted unholy and profane in public were subject to breaking the law. Public nudity and lewdness are still subject to that, breaking the peace also, which would all fall under ungodly, unholy, and profane behavior, etc. It's just that those in Christ Jesus often forget how many of God's laws from The Bible are still in effect for us today, until one of us breaks them and finds out the hard way.

When our Lord Jesus gave two commandments to sum up all the law, it was about summarizing God's Ten Commandments. Not doing away with them, but summarizing them. First five involve our spiritual relationship with God and family. The last five involve our civil relationship with each other.

Thusly...

Mark 12:29-31
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
(KJV)

 

[Duckybill]

1Ti 4:1-5 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Exactly! Dietary restrictions for religious reasons are "doctrines of devils".

 

[veteran]

What is the wishing that God's laws would go away really about today?

A guy named Golitsyn who was a KGB colonel in the 1960's defected to the U.S. He wrote a work called New Lies For Old where he mentioned part of Communism's long-range plan against the West was to influence western Christian leaders in summits to take back to their Churches doctrines of disarmament and pacifist dogma. That strategy began in the 1950's against the West, as even the ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen noted it in his 1958 work The Naked Communist.

In Luke 22 our Lord Jesus told His disciples to go buy a sword for those who didn't have one...

Luke 22:35-38
35 And He said unto them, "When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?" And they said, "Nothing."
36 Then said He unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
(KJV)

That command Christ gave them puts in proper perspective His words about loving our enemies. It means PROTECT YOURSELF, even when loving your enemies.

How would that apply to a Christian nation invaded and attacked by, let's say an Islamic army? Well, there is an historical event of just that kind of thing in the Christian West, when Islamic Moors invaded southern Europe back around 700 A.D. The Moors took all of Spain and were stopped at the northern borders between Spain and France by the king of France and his Christian armies.

A Christian has the right to protect theirself according to Christ Jesus. That applies to a nation that follows Christ also. And it also applies to wielding the sword upon the wicked among us who seek to destroy us. Because our Lord Jesus gave that command to buy a sword to His disciples, that MUST be considered along with His saying to love our enemies.

Sometimes we love our enemies by feeding them and caring for those who hate Christ and us, and at other times it requires using the sword in tough love upon the worst of them so their whole nation will not perish off the earth.

 

[Duckybill]

Sometimes we love our enemies by feeding them and caring for those who hate Christ and us, and at other times it requires using the sword in tough love upon the worst of them so their whole nation will not perish off the earth.

If you use the sword on those you love, what would you do to those you don't love?

Matthew 5:39 (NKJV)
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

 

[veteran]

If you use the sword on those you love, what would you do to those you don't love?

Matthew 5:39 (NKJV)
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

If you're not man enough to protect an old woman being mugged on the street, then you're not man enough to protect your own family, and deserve nothing.

 

[Prentis]

I think we are all subject to God's law.

As Jesus said to the rich young man; "You know the commandements. Dont commit adultery, dont kill, dont steal, dont bear false witness, honor your father and mother." (The question asked was 'what must I do to inherit eternal life?')

But when the young man wanted more than just being righteous, Jesus said leave everything behind and come and follow me.

I think it's that standard for all. Only if we want to rule and reign with Christ and know him intimately, then the bar is raised.

 

[Duckybill]

If you're not man enough to protect an old woman being mugged on the street, then you're not man enough to protect your own family, and deserve nothing.

I don't need to resort to violence. God answers my prayers. Why do you call disobeying God being a man? It is not.

"Do not resist the evil person."

 

[veteran]

I think we are all subject to God's law.

As Jesus said to the rich young man; "You know the commandements. Dont commit adultery, dont kill, dont steal, dont bear false witness, honor your father and mother." (The question asked was 'what must I do to inherit eternal life?')

But when the young man wanted more than just being righteous, Jesus said leave everything behind and come and follow me.

I think it's that standard for all. Only if we want to rule and reign with Christ and know him intimately, then the bar is raised.

That's a good way to put it, for not all are chosen to be apostles. Christ remarked at the faith of the Roman soldier who asked Him to heal his servant, He didn't rebuke the guy for being a soldier.

 

[Duckybill]

That's a good way to put it, for not all are chosen to be apostles. Christ remarked at the faith of the Roman soldier who asked Him to heal his servant, He didn't rebuke the guy for being a soldier.

Everyone who gets saved has to start somewhere, like a newborn baby.

 

[veteran]

Luke 20:25
25 And He said unto them, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's."
(KJV)

What exactly did our Lord Jesus mean by that distinction? Who gives power for rulers in this present world to rule? Per Romans 13, God does, and Paul called them God's ministers.

So when a Church minister or pastor starts mocking the need for those powers God has placed, they're actually mocking the order God has setup in this world. After the pagan Roman empire conquered many lands and peoples, and then through Constantine suddenly accepted Christ, that was a miraculous event that spread The Gospel of Jesus Christ through many lands. If the Caesars had never existed beforehand, God would have brought The Gospel another way. But history reveals God used the powers He set in place to prep the stage for Christianity in Asia Minor and Europe.

 

[Duckybill]

Who gives power for rulers in this present world to rule? Per Romans 13, God does, and Paul called them God's ministers.

I guess you're asking me? Rom 13 makes it clear that ALL government is established by God. But it doesn't mean they are Godly people. Most are not. God uses evil people to punish evil doers.

So when a Church minister or pastor starts mocking the need for those powers God has placed, they're actually mocking the order God has setup in this world.

I think I agree with that.

Daniel 4:17 (ESV)
17 The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men.

 

[veteran]

I guess you're asking me? Rom 13 makes it clear that ALL government is established by God. But it doesn't mean they are Godly people. Most are not. God uses evil people to punish evil doers.

I think I agree with that.

Daniel 4:17 (ESV)
17 The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men.

The part of God's Word you've failed to recognize though, like why Paul supported the idea of the law being for the wicked, is just WHO today did God give control of His law? No need for you to answer that, God already proclaimed who that is...

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)

THAT is why many of God's laws are still in effect over Christian society today. And that is NOT just about unbelieving Judah either.

 

[Duckybill]

The part of God's Word you've failed to recognize though, like why Paul supported the idea of the law being for the wicked, is just WHO today did God give control of His law? No need for you to answer that, God already proclaimed who that is...

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)

THAT is why many of God's laws are still in effect over Christian society today. And that is NOT just about unbelieving Judah either.

I'm not sure what your point is. Christians are not to do violence to anyone for any reason. And for certain, we are not under THE LAW of Moses. We have a New Covenant to live by.

"Love your enemies." "Do good to those who hate you." "Do not resist the evil person." "Deliver us from the evil one." "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. "

Our warfare is against the Devil ONLY.

 

[veteran]

I'm not sure what your point is. Christians are not to do violence to anyone for any reason. And for certain, we are not under THE LAW of Moses. We have a New Covenant to live by.

"Love your enemies." "Do good to those who hate you." "Do not resist the evil person." "Deliver us from the evil one." "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. "

Our warfare is against the Devil ONLY.

Sometimes that love requires a 2x4, sometimes a rifle. God's laws are still in effect today upon the wicked and unrighteous. But people like you try to justify yourself above God's Righteousness by submitting to the will of the evil workers of iniquity instead of punishing them like God said to do.

My previous post was about how God has established the care of His law for this present world in the hands of the tribe of Judah. Majority of them still refusing Christ by God blinding them for His Purpose just might... involve their responsibility as lawgivers that serve to protect not just themselves, but Christianity as a whole also.

What you're obviously not able to see today is how Christ's enemies are busy trying to tear Judah's lawgiver responsibility away and let the wicked control the rule of law instead. That's why we have so many false "crept in unawares" sitting on the benches as judges ruling from the bench, instead of from Constitutional authority which includes many of God's laws from The Bible. Those judges are busy trying to remove God's Ten Commandments from our Christian society, and setup Socialist-Communist idealism over us instead. That's why they are "crept in unawares", and not of God's people. This is what happens when we as Christians fail to understand what God's laws are for today in the Christian nations. Not for the righteous who dwell in Christ, but for the wicked that would destroy those in Christ Jesus.

Thusly, those who support the removal of God's laws for the purposes like Paul said in 1 Timothy 1, do show their alliance with the lawless and wicked workers of iniquity, and they will have to answer for it when Christ returns. This is why some who claim to believe on Christ Jesus will be turned away by Christ when He returns. He will say to them, "depart from Me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt.7; Matt.25; Luke 13).

 

[sniper762]

Mark3 27 No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

 

[Duckybill]

Sometimes that love requires a 2x4, sometimes a rifle.

That's love to you? Not what Jesus commanded.

"Love your enemies." "Do good to those who hate you."

God's laws are still in effect today upon the wicked and unrighteous.

Christians are NOT under THE LAW of Moses. We have the New Covenant.

But people like you try to justify yourself above God's Righteousness by submitting to the will of the evil workers of iniquity instead of punishing them like God said to do.

So God appointed you to punish the wicked?

What you're obviously not able to see today is how Christ's enemies are busy trying to tear Judah's lawgiver responsibility away and let the wicked control the rule of law instead. That's why we have so many false "crept in unawares" sitting on the benches as judges ruling from the bench, instead of from Constitutional authority which includes many of God's laws from The Bible.

Romans 13:1 (ESV)
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Those judges are busy trying to remove God's Ten Commandments from our Christian society, and setup Socialist-Communist idealism over us instead. That's why they are "crept in unawares", and not of God's people. This is what happens when we as Christians fail to understand what God's laws are for today in the Christian nations. Not for the righteous who dwell in Christ, but for the wicked that would destroy those in Christ Jesus.

Mark 12:31 (ESV)
31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Romans 5:20 says, "Moreover, the Law entered that the offense might abound, but where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."

The term "the Law entered" is referring to the fact that the law was modified by an addititon after Jesus' was crucified. ref. Heb 7:12

 

[veteran]

That's love to you? Not what Jesus commanded.

"Love your enemies." "Do good to those who hate you."

Sometimes God punishes our enemies through war, and it's usually after the attack of Christ's enemies upon His people. Or do you think we should have sat back and done nothing after radical Islamic terrorists attacked the twin towers twice, killing many with their second attack?

When our Lord Jesus taught to love our enemies, and turn the other cheek, that was not about a situation with an enemy attacking to kill you. This is why He told His disciples in Luke 22:36 to go buy a sword for those who didn't have one. It's called self-defense. That's a God-given right for everyone, not just His disciples and us.

Christians are NOT under THE LAW of Moses. We have the New Covenant.

IF we walk in Christ by The Holy Spirit, then we are not subject to the law; that's what Paul taught in Galatians and Romans, foundational Books of Christian Doctrine. Doesn't mean the law is gone, only means our walk in The Spirit involves not following works of the flesh... but fruit of The Spirit, against which there is no law...

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(KJV)

Go out and steal, murder, commit crimes, etc., doing the works of the flesh, and that one puts theirself back under the law. One then learns just how much the law is still in effect for doing unrighteousness. God's laws that are still in effect today include the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself (Lev.19).

So God appointed you to punish the wicked?

Romans 13:1 (ESV)
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

No, God did not appoint me in an office of the law, but there might be some here on this forum that He did appoint as officers of the law to punish the wicked. Why, do you have a PROBLEM WITH AUTHORITY in general? Do you hate those called in the office of administering the law against the wicked? They and the law exists to protect Christ's people from the wicked, so I fail to understand why any... Christian believer would have a problem with that.

Mark 12:31 (ESV)
31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Once again, that commandment was given in God's laws first to Israel, written in the Old Testament Book of Leviticus...

Lev 19:18
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
(KJV)

 

[Duckybill]

Sometimes God punishes our enemies through war, and it's usually after the attack of Christ's enemies upon His people. Or do you think we should have sat back and done nothing after radical Islamic terrorists attacked the twin towers twice, killing many with their second attack?

Our enemies? The USA is just another Nation following in the steps of Sodom. Should we fight for Sodom? We would be fighting against God.

When our Lord Jesus taught to love our enemies, and turn the other cheek, that was not about a situation with an enemy attacking to kill you.

It was for ALL situations. Give mercy, get mercy from God.

This is why He told His disciples in Luke 22:36 to go buy a sword for those who didn't have one. It's called self-defense. That's a God-given right for everyone, not just His disciples and us.

"All those who take the sword will perish with the sword."

Where do you find rights for Christians in the NT? Certainly not in the Sermon on the Mount.

IF we walk in Christ by The Holy Spirit, then we are not subject to the law; that's what Paul taught in Galatians and Romans, foundational Books of Christian Doctrine. Doesn't mean the law is gone, only means our walk in The Spirit involves not following works of the flesh... but fruit of The Spirit, against which there is no law...

Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(KJV)

Go out and steal, murder, commit crimes, etc., doing the works of the flesh, and that one puts theirself back under the law. One then learns just how much the law is still in effect for doing unrighteousness. God's laws that are still in effect today include the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself (Lev.19).

ALL THE LAW is fulfilled by love. Christians are not to do harm to anyone for any reason.

Galatians 5:14 (NKJV)
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

No, God did not appoint me in an office of the law, but there might be some here on this forum that He did appoint as officers of the law to punish the wicked.

By 'punish' you mean kill? Perhaps there are some here but Christians don't kill others.

Why, do you have a PROBLEM WITH AUTHORITY in general?

I don't. I love sinners.

Do you hate those called in the office of administering the law against the wicked?

Didn't you know? Those "in the office of administering the law" are quite often "the wicked".

They and the law exists to protect Christ's people from the wicked, so I fail to understand why any... Christian believer would have a problem with that.

Once again, that commandment was given in God's laws first to Israel, written in the Old Testament Book of Leviticus...

Lev 19:18
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
(KJV)

Christians are not under THE LAW of Moses even though you are trying to mix Law and Grace, it won't work. It's much better to be under Grace. There is NEVER a valid excuse for Christians to resort violence against anyone else. Mercy is much better.

John 1:17 (NKJV)
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.