What are some of the reasons people don’t like going to church buildings or institutionalized churches?

[bdavidc]

Lots of scriptures that say go and give to the church

What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

Bible verses about Giving To The Church

www.openbible.info

According to Scripture alone, giving is a principle that flows from a heart transformed by the gospel, not from a legalistic or location-based requirement. 2 Corinthians 9:7 says, “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of necessity, for God loveth a cheerful giver.” The Greek word for “cheerful” is hilaros, meaning joyful or willing, not compelled by external rules or by obligation to an institution. There is no verse in the New Testament that commands believers to give specifically to a church that meets in a building. Instead, giving is directed toward the needs of the saints (Romans 12:13), support for those who labor in preaching and teaching (1 Timothy 5:17-18), and caring for the poor (Galatians 2:10, Acts 11:29-30).

The “church” in Scripture is never described as a building but as the body of believers (Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:18). Therefore, giving should be to the true church, that is, the body of Christ, wherever genuine need exists and the Word is faithfully taught. In Acts 4:34-35, believers laid money at the apostles’ feet “and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” There was no requirement to give to a particular location, but to meet needs among the brethren. The heart and the purpose of the giving matter more than the address where it’s sent.

So yes, the verses you linked are relevant if they are rightly applied in the context of the New Testament pattern of giving. But no, we are not mandated to give to a building-based church organization. We are called to give as stewards of what God has entrusted to us, and our giving should be guided by Scripture, not by man-made systems.

So what is the money supposed to be used for? Biblically, giving should go to: (1) supporting the faithful preaching and teaching of God’s Word (1 Corinthians 9:13-14, 1 Timothy 5:17-18), (2) caring for widows, orphans, and those truly in need within the body (James 1:27, Acts 6:1-4, Romans 12:13), and (3) helping missionaries and gospel laborers (Philippians 4:15-17, 3 John 6-8). Nowhere in Scripture is giving directed toward maintaining elaborate buildings, entertainment productions, or staff unrelated to the gospel and biblical teaching. In fact, when Paul collected money from the churches, it was for the poor saints in Jerusalem (Romans 15:26, 2 Corinthians 8-9), not to build structures or expand an institution.

All giving must be done as stewardship before God, guided by the truth of Scripture, and always aimed at advancing the true work of the gospel and caring for the body of Christ.

 

[dad]

I am fine if you can find all this in the Bible.

The link itself had many bible passages. Such as not being joined with uunbelievers, etc etc.

If not....just another thousand and one reasons to not obey God.

It is not obeying God wasting time and money is a false system. When a church wants to give unto God that which is God's and Caesar that which is Caesar's they do not take hush money from Caesar that limits their freedom to follow God's Spirit and Scripture. You might as well just work at a bank, and call the line up fellowship

Since "churches" in the Bible were actually congregations, at times house churches.
It would be more correct to only participate in modern house churches .....either way assemble with other Christians to worship the Lord and fellowship.

I agree. And if sometimes you meet other believers at a beach, underground, or a forest or park, or a giant rented hall, fine. I also do not find it to be worship personally to sit and stand and kneel and chant the basic same thing week after week, year after year, decade after decade.

As far as tax exempt, since tax exempt does not mean the government pay churches anything….they just do not pay taxes. But I do believe churches should be able to invest in things and taxes paid on that.

The link explained how the government actually does give benefits for the breaks. Kind of like pay for play. The thing is they need to play in a way the government says is 'nice' . It also explained how the rug can be pulled away at any moment resulting in losing those benefits. Even losing all properties and etc as well that are only basically on loan to those churches and charities that play by the government rules.

 

[Grailhunter]

According to Scripture alone, giving is a principle that flows from a heart transformed by the gospel, not from a legalistic or location-based requirement. 2 Corinthians 9:7 says, “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of necessity, for God loveth a cheerful giver.” The Greek word for “cheerful” is hilaros, meaning joyful or willing, not compelled by external rules or by obligation to an institution. There is no verse in the New Testament that commands believers to give specifically to a church that meets in a building. Instead, giving is directed toward the needs of the saints (Romans 12:13), support for those who labor in preaching and teaching (1 Timothy 5:17-18), and caring for the poor (Galatians 2:10, Acts 11:29-30).

The “church” in Scripture is never described as a building but as the body of believers (Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:18). Therefore, giving should be to the true church, that is, the body of Christ, wherever genuine need exists and the Word is faithfully taught. In Acts 4:34-35, believers laid money at the apostles’ feet “and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” There was no requirement to give to a particular location, but to meet needs among the brethren. The heart and the purpose of the giving matter more than the address where it’s sent.

So yes, the verses you linked are relevant if they are rightly applied in the context of the New Testament pattern of giving. But no, we are not mandated to give to a building-based church organization. We are called to give as stewards of what God has entrusted to us, and our giving should be guided by Scripture, not by man-made systems.

So what is the money supposed to be used for? Biblically, giving should go to: (1) supporting the faithful preaching and teaching of God’s Word (1 Corinthians 9:13-14, 1 Timothy 5:17-18), (2) caring for widows, orphans, and those truly in need within the body (James 1:27, Acts 6:1-4, Romans 12:13), and (3) helping missionaries and gospel laborers (Philippians 4:15-17, 3 John 6-8). Nowhere in Scripture is giving directed toward maintaining elaborate buildings, entertainment productions, or staff unrelated to the gospel and biblical teaching. In fact, when Paul collected money from the churches, it was for the poor saints in Jerusalem (Romans 15:26, 2 Corinthians 8-9), not to build structures or expand an institution.

All giving must be done as stewardship before God, guided by the truth of Scripture, and always aimed at advancing the true work of the gospel and caring for the body of Christ.

A site entitled 100 scriptures about giving to the church

What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

Bible verses about Giving To The Church

www.openbible.info

Yes you are right no church buildings until the 4th century.
And alway go to church and alway give, even if it only a penny.

Then a comment on the signs of the times....
The term authoritarian has become a bad word.
Authoritarian definition
1. Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom:

Where a lot of people these days consider freedom as Anarchy.
Anarchy definition
1.a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority or other controlling systems: "the country has been plunged into a state of anarchy"
2.the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government; anarchism.

Therein lays the problem because neither Judaism nor Christianity allows for anarchy. And a lot people equate some form of anarchy as freedom. But God and Christianity are authoritarian.

The Old Testament does not have the Ten Suggestions or the Mosaic advice. And in the New Testament Christ and the Apostles do not give suggestions and allow for actions without ramifications, sometimes severe.

So in Christianity some people see obedience as an option or an infringement on their personal freedoms. Such an option means they missed the whole point of Christianity, the Spirit of Christianity.

As it is a lot of people say they are Christians for social reasons.
Lazyboy Christians that do not go Church, do not want to go to Church…..do not have it in them the desire to stand with Christians to worship the Lord.

If this is you, are you saved, not even going through the motions but just pretending to be something you are not?

 

[dad]

The “church” in Scripture is never described as a building but as the body of believers (Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:18). Therefore, giving should be to the true church, that is, the body of Christ, wherever genuine need exists and the Word is faithfully taught. In Acts 4:34-35, believers laid money at the apostles’ feet “and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.”

I agree. The church means people. And the link I posted pointed out that a church is NOT free at all to give to the people it deems worthy or missionaries etc etc. There are strict limits on how they spend/give money to under the threat of losing everything if they dare to disobey.

 

[Grailhunter]

The link itself had many bible passages. Such as not being joined with uunbelievers, etc etc.

It is not obeying God wasting time and money is a false system. When a church wants to give unto God that which is God's and Caesar that which is Caesar's they do not take hush money from Caesar that limits their freedom to follow God's Spirit and Scripture. You might as well just work at a bank, and call the line up fellowship

I agree. And if sometimes you meet other believers at a beach, underground, or a forest or park, or a giant rented hall, fine. I also do not find it to be worship personally to sit and stand and kneel and chant the basic same thing week after week, year after year, decade after decade.

The link explained how the government actually does give benefits for the breaks. Kind of like pay for play. The thing is they need to play in a way the government says is 'nice' . It also explained how the rug can be pulled away at any moment resulting in losing those benefits. Even losing all properties and etc as well that are only basically on loan to those churches and charities that play by the government rules.

From what you have posted it seems you sit in a Lazy Boy and study why not to obey God.

 

[dad]

A site entitled 100 scriptures about giving to the church

What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

Bible verses about Giving To The Church

www.openbible.info

Now all you need to do is define church. Giving is wonderful! NOT being able to give as the Spirit leads and as Scripture says is another matter.

Yes you are right no church buildings until the 4th century.
And alway go to church and alway give, even if it only a penny.

Again, (mis) using the world church to define some building oriented, system pleasing waste of time and money is a game some people love to play.

Then a comment on the signs of the times....
The term authoritarian has become a bad word.
Authoritarian definition
1. Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom:

We are submit to God. Not to the world.

Where a lot of people these days consider freedom as Anarchy.
Anarchy definition
1.a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority or other controlling systems: "the country has been plunged into a state of anarchy"
2.the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government; anarchism.

Not applicable to the wind blowing where it blows according to the leading of God. The authority for believers is not government when it comes to spiritual things. Neither does government have the authority to overrule God or Scripture.

Therein lays the problem because neither Judaism nor Christianity allows for anarchy. And a lot people equate some form of anarchy as freedom. But God and Christianity are authoritarian.

Not a problem at all, because if people meet with believers in a way some so called churches consider anarchy (because they don't get to control it) that is not anarchy at all. That is divine order!

The Old Testament does not have the Ten Suggestions or the Mosaic advice.

And the law never saved anyone or kept anyone saved and was NEVER obeyed by anyone! It was a lesson. A lesson that we cannot obey it as much as we might try!

And in the New Testament Christ and the Apostles do not give suggestions and allow for actions without ramifications, sometimes severe.

And no one better suggest they gave suggestions or commands to be a part of some mega man pleasing government over God time and money wasting so called churches.

So in Christianity some people see obedience as an option or an infringement on their personal freedoms. Such an option means they missed the whole point of Christianity, the Spirit of Christianity.

And some people see obedience as putting a rainbow flag up in some apostate reproach to the cause phony so called church system.

As it is a lot of people say they are Christians for social reasons.
Lazyboy Christians that do not go Church, do not want to go to Church…..do not have it in them the desire to stand with Christians to worship the Lord.

Some people also make false accusations against believers that obey God and not man and call them lazy or sinners or devils if they do not comply to their cult of building focused government pleasing apostate nonsense.

If this is you, are you saved, not even going through the motions but just pretending to be something you are not?

Is this you, pretending that anyone that is outside the false church is not saved?

 

[dad]

From what you have posted it seems you sit in a Lazy Boy and study why not to obey God.

You would need to know the difference between obeying and knowing God and a false apostate system. Do you?

 

[Grailhunter]

You would need to know the difference between obeying and knowing God and a false apostate system. Do you?

You cannot know God without obey Him and worshipping Him.

 

[dad]

You cannot know God without obey Him and worshipping Him.

Right so we should avoid false churches. They that worship God must do so in Spirit and in truth!

So many organizations call themselves a church today. Here is an example of thousands of 'churches' that support things contrary to Scripture.

List of Christian denominations affirming LGBTQ people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some of the denominations involved are Baptist,Catholic,Anglican,Methodist,United,Presbyterian,Reformed,Lutheran, and Mennonite.

These are some reasons some people do not like going to 'church' The word has become meaningless and changed. Looking at the USA for example, I also see many churches that support the mass murdering of people in Gaza. Supporting the terrorism and atrocities done there by the state of 'Israel' Other churches support abortion. Etc. Yet probably all of these would use the same sort of arguments you have offered! Like 'You cannot know God without obey Him and worshipping Him' As if that meant the way to obey and worship is to go to their church!

 

[Grailhunter]

Right so we should avoid false churches. They that worship God must do so in Spirit and in truth!

So many organizations call themselves a church today. Here is an example of thousands of 'churches' that support things contrary to Scripture.

List of Christian denominations affirming LGBTQ people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some of the denominations involved are Baptist,Catholic,Anglican,Methodist,United,Presbyterian,Reformed,Lutheran, and Mennonite.

These are some reasons some people do not like going to 'church' The word has become meaningless and changed. Looking at the USA for example, I also see many churches that support the mass murdering of people in Gaza. Supporting the terrorism and atrocities done there by the state of 'Israel' Other churches support abortion. Etc. Yet probably all of these would use the same sort of arguments you have offered! Like 'You cannot know God without obey Him and worshipping Him' As if that meant the way to obey and worship is to go to their church!

Well debating you is pretty easy because you prove me right with every post. Not only with what you say but the amount of effort you are putting into justifying not obeying God or worshipping Him.

There are a lot of good churches out there, a virtual smogagasbord of denominations to choose from that preach the path to salvation and worship the Lord. Mega churches and small churches and country bethel churches.

I know because I am a formally educated theologian and I attend several churches of different denominations. Granted some are better than others but you are not going to find perfection and you being imperfect are not a perfect judge.

Your posts are just a thousand of one reasons not to live a Christian life.

 

[bdavidc]

These are some reasons some people do not like going to 'church' The word has become meaningless and changed. Looking at the USA for example, I also see many churches that support the mass murdering of people in Gaza. Supporting the terrorism and atrocities done there by the state of 'Israel' Other churches support abortion. Etc. Yet probably all of these would use the same sort of arguments you have offered! Like 'You cannot know God without obey Him and worshipping Him' As if that meant the way to obey and worship is to go to their church!

I agree. Many religious groups today claim to represent Christ, yet openly support evil, whether that’s the shedding of innocent blood through abortion (Proverbs 6:17), or the endorsement of violence and injustice under a false theological banner (Isaiah 5:20). Yet these same groups often demand obedience and church attendance as if physical presence in their building equals obedience to God. That’s not biblical. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31). True discipleship is not about sitting in a pew; it’s about obeying the Word of God.

Obedience and worship are not defined by institutional loyalty, but by faithfulness to Scripture. Romans 12:1-2 calls believers to present their bodies as living sacrifices, holy and acceptable to God, which is our reasonable service, the Greek word latreia meaning worship. That includes how we live, how we love, and how we speak truth. Being part of the true body of Christ means assembling with other believers (Hebrews 10:25), but that does not require submitting to compromised or apostate systems. In fact, 2 Corinthians 6:17 commands, “Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing.”

So when someone rejects the idea of “going to church,” they may be rejecting false religion, hypocrisy, and man-made systems that have no place in the true worship of Christ. That distinction matters. What God requires is obedience to His Word, faith in His Son, and a life that reflects His truth, not attendance in a corrupted system that misrepresents His name.

 

[dad]

Well debating you is pretty easy because you prove me right with every post. Not only with what you say but the amount of effort you are putting into justifying not obeying God or worshipping Him.

You seem to once again be insulating that worshipping God means going to a government obeying building centred 'church'. I would be happy to look at that claim. What church and denomination do you attend exactly?

There are a lot of good churches out there, a virtual smogagasbord of denominations to choose from that preach the path to salvation and worship the Lord. Mega churches and small churches and country bethel churches.

There are a lot of good banks too. There are also a lot of believers that do not use any of them.

I know because I am a formally educated theologian and I attend several churches of different denominations.

I see. List 3 or four and your favourite then?

Granted some are better than others but you are not going to find perfection and you being imperfect are not a perfect judge.

Nor would anyone expect to find perfect people as believers. The topic we have touched on here regards the building system and practices like compromising etc

Your posts are just a thousand of one reasons not to live a Christian life.

If you imagine a 'Christian life' meant going to apostate cult 'churches' then you might have a point

 

[Grailhunter]

You seem to once again be insulating that worshipping God means going to a government obeying building centred 'church'. I would be happy to look at that claim. What church and denomination do you attend exactly?

There are a lot of good banks too. There are also a lot of believers that do not use any of them.

I see. List 3 or four and your favourite then?

Nor would anyone expect to find perfect people as believers. The topic we have touched on here regards the building system and practices like compromising etc

If you imagine a 'Christian life' meant going to apostate cult 'churches' then you might have a point

A Christian life is defined in the scriptures.

Three? Good churches are not always defined by denominations. I've seen good non-denomiational churches. My favorite? Holy Ghost churches.

Your post shows your intent. Your questions are to look for fault. A thousand and one reasons not to obey God and live a Christian life. On Judgment Day you will fail to convince Christ. Tell them to pack the barbeque sauce in your casket....you will need it.

 

[dad]

A Christian life is defined in the scriptures.

Yes, we know

Three? Good churches are not always defined by denominations. I've seen good non-denomiational churches. My favorite? Holy Ghost churches.

Do they have a denomination? I'd like to look up the details about what they do and support

Your post shows your intent. Your questions are to look for fault.

Pointing out the glaringly obvious is not looking for fault.

A thousand and one reasons not to obey God and live a Christian life.

Meaningless slogan as you use it. It does not refer to preaching the gospel, studying Scripture, how we should live or anything else. Just some self righteous vague and smug little meaningless words to try and give the impression that your unmentioned church is holier than the rest of us. Be brave and tell us your home church? Ha

On Judgment Day you will fail to convince Christ.

False prophesy!

Tell them to pack the barbeque sauce in your casket....you will need it.

So a veiled threat that if people do not swallow whole whatever the church system (false so called church system) regurgitates up, they are going to hell. Funny how you gave no real details as to the churches you say you attend or what exactly your 'obeying' and a 'christian life' is supposed to mean. Instead we have Satanic accusations. Interesting.

 

[bdavidc]

Not only with what you say but the amount of effort you are putting into justifying not obeying God or worshipping Him.

There are a lot of good churches out there, a virtual smogagasbord of denominations to choose from that preach the path to salvation and worship the Lord. Mega churches and small churches and country bethel churches.

I know because I am a formally educated theologian and I attend several churches of different denominations. Granted some are better than others but you are not going to find perfection and you being imperfect are not a perfect judge.

Your posts are just a thousand of one reasons not to live a Christian life.

It looks to me that you are putting in a lot of effort trying to justify not obeying God word and adding your own opinion which is not God’s word.

Your response misrepresents both what was said and what Scripture teaches. Nowhere have I seen anyone who claimed that going to a church building is disobeying God, and nowhere have I seen anyone say that people who attend a church building cannot worship God. What I have seen said, and what the Bible teaches, is that attending a building is not what defines obedience or worship. True worship is not tied to a location but to the condition of the heart and the truth of God’s Word. Jesus Himself said, “The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father seeketh such to worship him” (John 4:23). Worship that pleases God is rooted in spirit and truth, not in buildings or traditions of men.

Scripture never commands believers to join a particular denomination or attend a man-made institution. Instead, it commands us to “continue in the Word” (John 8:31), to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3), and to “test all things, hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). That includes testing what is preached in churches today. If a church teaches the full counsel of God’s Word, exalts Christ alone, preaches repentance and salvation through faith in Him, and does not compromise truth for numbers or comfort, then yes, that is something to rejoice in and support (1 Timothy 5:17, Acts 2:42). I would love to find such a church, and I still hope to, but experience has shown that many churches today focus more on money, entertainment, crowds, buildings, and avoiding offense than on faithfully preaching the Word. Paul warned that this would happen: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears” (2 Timothy 4:3).

You accuse people of offering “a thousand reasons not to live a Christian life,” but that accusation is false and slanderous. (Living a Christian life is not about going to Church on Sunday, but living it every day.) I have not seen offered one reason to disobey Christ. In fact, I have seen insistence on Sola Scriptura, obedience to what the Bible actually says, not what people assume or impose. What people should not do is blindly follow a system that adds to God’s Word or substitutes buildings, programs, and entertainment for real discipleship and sound doctrine.

Finally, your appeal to being a “formally educated theologian” does not carry authority in a biblical discussion. Scripture says, “Let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4), and “If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God” (1 Peter 4:11). Formal education means nothing if it contradicts the Bible. What matters is whether the teaching lines up with Scripture. That is the only standard God has given us. So if you believe someone has disobeyed God’s Word, show them with Scripture. But if they are standing on the Word of God, then your argument is not with them, it is with God Himself.

You are absolutely right that no church is perfect and none of us are perfect judges, but tolerating false teaching or justifying it is not what God calls us to do. The issue is not about expecting perfection, it’s about obeying God’s clear command to test all things and hold fast to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21), to mark and avoid those who teach contrary to sound doctrine (Romans 16:17), and to expose the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11). No one is claiming to be a perfect judge, but we are commanded to judge righteously according to the Word of God (John 7:24). The standard is not personal opinion, but Scripture alone.

Those who choose to look the other way and push their opinion on others, that we should overlook false teaching in the name of “imperfection,” are not helping the church, they are helping to send people down the broad road to destruction (Matthew 7:13). Jesus warned us plainly about false prophets who come in sheep’s clothing, and He said we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20). Ignoring error or excusing compromise is not humility; it is disobedience. Real love warns, corrects, and clings to the truth, because eternity is at stake.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do they have a denomination? I'd like to look up the details about what they do and support

Look them up....looking for fault.
As a theologian I can find faults in their general beliefs. That not the point and it will come down to opinions which is why there are over 30,000 denominations. The early Christians did not have Bibles and good part of them could not read. Tens of millions were saved with just Acts 2:38 and the Bread and Wine Ritual.

Some are "Bible Only" which is a misnomer, some are not. So again a good church is not generally dependent on denominations. If you want names it would be the most common denominations. Excluding Calvinists and OSAS and Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Grailhunter]

It looks to me that you are putting in a lot of effort trying to justify not obeying God word and adding your own opinion which is not God’s word.

Your response misrepresents both what was said and what Scripture teaches. Nowhere have I seen anyone who claimed that going to a church building is disobeying God, and nowhere have I seen anyone say that people who attend a church building cannot worship God. What I have seen said, and what the Bible teaches, is that attending a building is not what defines obedience or worship. True worship is not tied to a location but to the condition of the heart and the truth of God’s Word. Jesus Himself said, “The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father seeketh such to worship him” (John 4:23). Worship that pleases God is rooted in spirit and truth, not in buildings or traditions of men.

Scripture never commands believers to join a particular denomination or attend a man-made institution. Instead, it commands us to “continue in the Word” (John 8:31), to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3), and to “test all things, hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). That includes testing what is preached in churches today. If a church teaches the full counsel of God’s Word, exalts Christ alone, preaches repentance and salvation through faith in Him, and does not compromise truth for numbers or comfort, then yes, that is something to rejoice in and support (1 Timothy 5:17, Acts 2:42). I would love to find such a church, and I still hope to, but experience has shown that many churches today focus more on money, entertainment, crowds, buildings, and avoiding offense than on faithfully preaching the Word. Paul warned that this would happen: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears” (2 Timothy 4:3).

You accuse people of offering “a thousand reasons not to live a Christian life,” but that accusation is false and slanderous. (Living a Christian life is not about going to Church on Sunday, but living it every day.) I have not seen offered one reason to disobey Christ. In fact, I have seen insistence on Sola Scriptura, obedience to what the Bible actually says, not what people assume or impose. What people should not do is blindly follow a system that adds to God’s Word or substitutes buildings, programs, and entertainment for real discipleship and sound doctrine.

Finally, your appeal to being a “formally educated theologian” does not carry authority in a biblical discussion. Scripture says, “Let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4), and “If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God” (1 Peter 4:11). Formal education means nothing if it contradicts the Bible. What matters is whether the teaching lines up with Scripture. That is the only standard God has given us. So if you believe someone has disobeyed God’s Word, show them with Scripture. But if they are standing on the Word of God, then your argument is not with them, it is with God Himself.

You are absolutely right that no church is perfect and none of us are perfect judges, but tolerating false teaching or justifying it is not what God calls us to do. The issue is not about expecting perfection, it’s about obeying God’s clear command to test all things and hold fast to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21), to mark and avoid those who teach contrary to sound doctrine (Romans 16:17), and to expose the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11). No one is claiming to be a perfect judge, but we are commanded to judge righteously according to the Word of God (John 7:24). The standard is not personal opinion, but Scripture alone.

Those who choose to look the other way and push their opinion on others, that we should overlook false teaching in the name of “imperfection,” are not helping the church, they are helping to send people down the broad road to destruction (Matthew 7:13). Jesus warned us plainly about false prophets who come in sheep’s clothing, and He said we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20). Ignoring error or excusing compromise is not humility; it is disobedience. Real love warns, corrects, and clings to the truth, because eternity is at stake.

Again a lot of effort not to assemble and worship the Lord and fellowship.
Can you find scriptures not to assemble and worship the Lord and fellowship.
Can you find scriptures that says that worshipping alone is better than assembling and worshipping.

Then there is the history of it all. Early Christians risked their lives to assemble to worship God. Whether it be in catacombs or house churches. But then you have today people that call themselves Christians but have no interest for even going through motions of Christians or apply Christianity to their lives.

 

[dad]

Look them up....looking for fault.
As a theologian I can find faults in their general beliefs. That not the point and it will come down to opinions which is why there are over 30,000 denominations. The early Christians did not have Bibles and good part of them could not read. Tens of millions were saved with just Acts 2:38 and the Bread and Wine Ritual.

Some are "Bible Only" which is a misnomer, some are not. So again a good church is not generally dependent on denominations. If you want names it would be the most common denominations. Excluding Calvinists and OSAS and Jehovah's Witnesses.

OK so you are asking me to look up the Holy Ghost church

The first thing that comes up is Catholic. The first one I looked up said this

"They have a tender devotion to the Virgin Mary, and profess firm allegiance to the Pope"

Holy Ghost Church | Catholic Church | Our History

Although the present Holy Ghost Church was dedicated on July 8, 1943, the parish has its roots in the 1860 construction of St. Mary’s Cathedral, the first Catholic Church in Denver. The cathedral parish was divided, and Holy Ghost became a parish under Fr. Frederick Bender. Learn more.

holyghostchurch.org

That is your idea of 'the Christian life!?

 

[PS95]

According to Scripture, elders and bishops are not tied to church buildings or formal institutions, but to the local body of believers, wherever they meet. In the New Testament, the words "elder" (Greek: presbuteros) and "bishop" or "overseer" (Greek: episkopos) are used interchangeably to describe mature men who are spiritually qualified to lead, teach, and shepherd God’s people (Titus 1:5–9, 1 Timothy 3:1–7, Acts 20:17, 28). These leaders are appointed within the church, which the Bible defines as the assembly of believers, not a structure or denomination (1 Corinthians 12:27, Romans 16:5). If you are regularly gathering with other believers in the name of Jesus, studying the Word, praying, and walking in obedience, that is a biblical church. Within that setting, if God raises up men who meet the qualifications laid out in Titus and 1 Timothy, they can serve as elders or overseers, even if your group meets in a home. The key is not where you meet, but whether the group is submitted to God’s Word, led by the Spirit, and functioning in the way Scripture commands. Leadership is about spiritual oversight, not titles or buildings. 1 Peter 5:2–3 says, “Feed the flock of God which is among you… not by constraint, but willingly… being examples to the flock.” So, elders and bishops fit wherever the true flock of God is gathered, even in a living room, as long as the Word of God is being obeyed.

I’ve seen churches appoint elders and deacons who don’t meet the biblical qualifications, simply because they couldn’t find anyone else. In my opinion, that only makes the situation worse. I don’t claim to have all the answers, and that’s exactly why I started this thread, to hear from people who actually know what the Bible think. Grin.

Just to be clear, I’m not against going to a church building. What I have a problem with is when the leadership in a lot of churches teaches false doctrine, constantly talks about money to expand their buildings, or pressures people to give, give, and give, not for the sake of the gospel and help people, but to make themselves more comfortable. When people start acting like going to a certain church or denomination somehow makes you more saved, that’s dangerous and unbiblical. Honestly, that kind of mindset almost kept me from coming to know the Lord at all. But praise God, He opened my eyes and showed me that true salvation is not about buildings, money, or religious systems, it’s about knowing Him through His Word, prayer and truth.

According to Scripture, elders and bishops are not tied to church buildings or formal institutions, but to the local body of believers, wherever they meet. In the New Testament, the words "elder" (Greek: presbuteros) and "bishop" or "overseer" (Greek: episkopos) are used interchangeably to describe mature men who are spiritually qualified to lead, teach, and shepherd God’s people (Titus 1:5–9, 1 Timothy 3:1–7, Acts 20:17, 28). These leaders are appointed within the church, which the Bible defines as the assembly of believers, not a structure or denomination (1 Corinthians 12:27, Romans 16:5). If you are regularly gathering with other believers in the name of Jesus, studying the Word, praying, and walking in obedience, that is a biblical church. Within that setting, if God raises up men who meet the qualifications laid out in Titus and 1 Timothy, they can serve as elders or overseers, even if your group meets in a home. The key is not where you meet, but whether the group is submitted to God’s Word, led by the Spirit, and functioning in the way Scripture commands. Leadership is about spiritual oversight, not titles or buildings. 1 Peter 5:2–3 says, “Feed the flock of God which is among you… not by constraint, but willingly… being examples to the flock.” So, elders and bishops fit wherever the true flock of God is gathered, even in a living room, as long as the Word of God is being obeyed.

I’ve seen churches appoint elders and deacons who don’t meet the biblical qualifications, simply because they couldn’t find anyone else. In my opinion, that only makes the situation worse. I don’t claim to have all the answers, and that’s exactly why I started this thread, to hear from people who actually know what the Bible think. Grin.

Just to be clear, I’m not against going to a church building. What I have a problem with is when the leadership in a lot of churches teaches false doctrine, constantly talks about money to expand their buildings, or pressures people to give, give, and give, not for the sake of the gospel and help people, but to make themselves more comfortable. When people start acting like going to a certain church or denomination somehow makes you more saved, that’s dangerous and unbiblical. Honestly, that kind of mindset almost kept me from coming to know the Lord at all. But praise God, He opened my eyes and showed me that true salvation is not about buildings, money, or religious systems, it’s about knowing Him through His Word, prayer and truth.

Hi Dave,
I agree with all that you said. Except-
I just think it's a bad idea for us all to have small home groups. There is strength in numbers and the body of Christ if possible should meet each other as much as possible. All sorts of good comes from that. So instead of that, why don't believers in a church unite ,and get rid of that false teacher? That's how it's done- not we leave. No, they LEAVE.

Besides, imagine what it would be like with 1 zillion home groups- talk about false teachers-! Just look at the nuttiness on this forum. Some of them would want to lead. Mayhem.

We need to unite not divide. When Jesus spoke of division that He brings- He was not speaking about amongst believers!!!!!
There are people here (like Taken) who actually believe that Jesus came to divide believers.
'

 

[Grailhunter]

OK so you are asking me to look up the Holy Ghost church

I did not ask you to look up anything....
Hey congratulation! You found a fault.

List of Pentecostal denominations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org