A honest letter from the poster child of skepticism to Christians: I found the answer??

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Lemon

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Having been raised into the teeny tiny French Hinduist community, I started my life with the default premise that there was a god. The belief in Karma, reincarnation and immutable morals were supposed to set my mind up for a dogma-led life. Yet, although I only have warm memories from this time, this is not how I turned out.

My parents completely turned away from religion when I was around 10, taking a more secular and philosophical approach to the Vedic teachings. As the brainy, curious and rational kid that I was, it wasn’t too hard for me to follow the current and drift away from the beliefs. In fact, my mom told me recently that one of the reasons why their faith weakened was that they often found themselves unable to answer my questions. I did grow into a bit of a rigid and skeptical know-it-all. In my defense, these traits were always presented by my peers as my biggest strength, and I became the face and heir of my family’s new approach to life: “question everything”.

But I found a way to take them by surprise. By the time I reached high school, the rock subculture I was into was led by excellent musicians, most of whom were young, cool, inspiring, and very Christian. Add to this: I had the chance of having as best friends the two sweetest, kindest, most loyal and most beautiful girls of the whole school, both very Christian. So you may understand why religion had found a new shine in my eyes. Soon, I started to study the Bible and attend church with my Protestant friend, and as you may imagine I did it the nerdy way and took it very seriously, for two years. I wanted to do the right thing and I thought that there way no way religion was such a big part of the human experience for no reason.

But I could not bring myself to believe, although I truly wanted to. Truly and sincerely, none of it made sense to me. I’m not going to list everything that had me doubt, but quite frankly if there was a God, why would He consider me as unworthy of saving because I couldn’t believe something on the simple basis of people saying “Oh, yeah, it’s true, trust me!!” Even if faith itself was something my mind could cling to, how do I know who to believe? Each year, every religion has bunches of people swearing on TV “My path is the right path, I saw God yesterday in a trance, He told me, trust me!!”

I couldn’t find a way to make it make sense. With both a new found frustration and fear of hell, I thought that the only thing that would free me from this puzzle would to throw it all away and simply live my life. On my way out, I promised to leave a window open for God, just in case. But the pendulum swing was stronger than expected.

From exiting high school to current days, I went through 10 atheist years of fun and frustration. Despite being proud of my fidelity to reason, I felt anger every single time I thought about religion. I was completely dumbfounded that so many grown adults could not only believe in fairy tales, but also abide by them. I would start speaking to someone who seemed perfectly sane and somewhat intelligent, find out they were religious, and think “Why?? How do you do this?”. I never rage out of differences. I rage out of inability to understand a perspective.

That was until very recently. As I discovered in myself a new thirst for knowledge, my mind started to loosen up. By exploring psychology, philosophy and simply looking back on life, I realized that stone cold reason is only one half of being human. The other half is feeling, and is just as valid. One could use some of the famous arguments that give reasonable grounds for the existence of God, but there are ways to counter them all and in fact, it isn’t what believing is about. Just like you could list every practical reason that can justify marrying your significant other, but none of them are really what made you fall in love. You just did, period. I now understand that faith works on the same basis as falling in love.

It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger. I truly wish I were you. I'm taking baby steps, but it is far from easy.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Having been raised into the teeny tiny French Hinduist community, I started my life with the default premise that there was a god. The belief in Karma, reincarnation and immutable morals were supposed to set my mind up for a dogma-led life. Yet, although I only have warm memories from this time, this is not how I turned out.

My parents completely turned away from religion when I was around 10, taking a more secular and philosophical approach to the Vedic teachings. As the brainy, curious and rational kid that I was, it wasn’t too hard for me to follow the current and drift away from the beliefs. In fact, my mom told me recently that one of the reasons why their faith weakened was that they often found themselves unable to answer my questions. I did grow into a bit of a rigid and skeptical know-it-all. In my defense, these traits were always presented by my peers as my biggest strength, and I became the face and heir of my family’s new approach to life: “question everything”.

But I found a way to take them by surprise. By the time I reached high school, the rock subculture I was into was led by excellent musicians, most of whom were young, cool, inspiring, and very Christian. Add to this: I had the chance of having as best friends the two sweetest, kindest, most loyal and most beautiful girls of the whole school, both very Christian. So you may understand why religion had found a new shine in my eyes. Soon, I started to study the Bible and attend church with my Protestant friend, and as you may imagine I did it the nerdy way and took it very seriously, for two years. I wanted to do the right thing and I thought that there way no way religion was such a big part of the human experience for no reason.

But I could not bring myself to believe, although I truly wanted to. Truly and sincerely, none of it made sense to me. I’m not going to list everything that had me doubt, but quite frankly if there was a God, why would He consider me as unworthy of saving because I couldn’t believe something on the simple basis of people saying “Oh, yeah, it’s true, trust me!!” Even if faith itself was something my mind could cling to, how do I know who to believe? Each year, every religion has bunches of people swearing on TV “My path is the right path, I saw God yesterday in a trance, He told me, trust me!!”

I couldn’t find a way to make it make sense. With both a new found frustration and fear of hell, I thought that the only thing that would free me from this puzzle would to throw it all away and simply live my life. On my way out, I promised to leave a window open for God, just in case. But the pendulum swing was stronger than expected.

From exiting high school to current days, I went through 10 atheist years of fun and frustration. Despite being proud of my fidelity to reason, I felt anger every single time I thought about religion. I was completely dumbfounded that so many grown adults could not only believe in fairy tales, but also abide by them. I would start speaking to someone who seemed perfectly sane and somewhat intelligent, find out they were religious, and think “Why?? How do you do this?”. I never rage out of differences. I rage out of inability to understand a perspective.

That was until very recently. As I discovered in myself a new thirst for knowledge, my mind started to loosen up. By exploring psychology, philosophy and simply looking back on life, I realized that stone cold reason is only one half of being human. The other half is feeling, and is just as valid. One could use some of the famous arguments that give reasonable grounds for the existence of God, but there are ways to counter them all and in fact, it isn’t what believing is about. Just like you could list every practical reason that can justify marrying your significant other, but none of them are really what made you fall in love. You just did, period. I now understand that faith works on the same basis as falling in love.

It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger. I truly wish I were you. I'm taking baby steps, but it is far from easy.




I used to be an Atheist myself...later I became more of an Agnostic.....my philosophy was “ Who am ‘I’ to look up into the sky and declare that there is god”.......

I never really sought God—- it seemed like “ He” was seeking “ Me”.....

Here is what seems to be your present dilemma —- You need to read the “ Parable Of The Sower” where Jesus describes the Four types of ‘ Soil” or in reality, Human Hearts....Your Heart presently is represented by the “Hard Soil”......you hear the Word Of God but it does not penetrate your Heart....

You need to be “ Good Soil” , one whose “Heart has been opened “ to not only “ hear” the Gospel ( 1 Cor 15:1-4) but actually “ Believe” it and thereby become Saved.....

Only God, via His Holy Spirit , can “ open your heart” to the reception of the Gospel that can Save you......You probably do not believe in Satan , but the reality is that Satan has blinded you to the Truth Of The Gospel and you need God to do what Only “ HE” can do and that is to give you “ eyes to see and ears to hear”....Good Soil has these two Essentials and you don’t and therefore your Future is a dismal one....You are on your way to Eternal Damnation as I was at one time....

God does not need you— you can add nothing to Him....and “NOBODY comes to God lest The Spirit draw him” ..... Do what I did......Muster up what little Faith that you “ might” have and ask God to make you “ Good Soil” —- It worked for me...

The first thing that happens to “ Good Soil” —- the thing that makes a “Christian” a Christian, The “ Starting Gate Of the Faith” one could call it , is seeing that you are a Sinner That *MUST HAVE* a Savior .....That “ Conviction Of Sin” is a Thing that only the Holy Spirit can reveal to a man....that is what gives you a “ Contrite ( repentant) Heart , and THAT is the only type Of Heart that God will deal with....

If you don’t think that you are a Wretched Sinner That is on his way to a well- deserved Hell , you need to read the First Chapter Of Romans and if that doesn’t convince you try reading Jesus Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5,6 and 7..... hopefully, your Heart will be convicted of Sin and you will Turn to Jesus to get Saved, once you see that you can NOT Save yourself....Do THAT and you are Saved forever—— Faith is what Saves....Faith is Believing a Promise Of God ....Here is your promise — “ TURN to Me and I will Turn to you” ........I will pray that God will make you “ Good Soil”.....May God Bless you as he has blessed me....
 

dhh712

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[...] One could use some of the famous arguments that give reasonable grounds for the existence of God, but there are ways to counter them all and in fact, it isn’t what believing is about. Just like you could list every practical reason that can justify marrying your significant other, but none of them are really what made you fall in love. You just did, period. I now understand that faith works on the same basis as falling in love.

It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger. I truly wish I were you. I'm taking baby steps, but it is far from easy.

Exactly. God led me down a very intellectual route. I was an atheist before knowing the Lord Jesus as my Saviour for around like 15 years. I was interested in the American Civil War nearly all my life (since 8th grade). After graduating from pharmacy school, I had a lot more time to read about that subject than previously when I was in school. I poured myself into the books. Ran into a character from that time period that just grabbed me. I wanted to know everything I could about him (Confederate general D.H. Hill). I found out he was a devout Presbyterian so I thought, what better way to know someone than to know about what they are really passionate about?

That's when I began studying what Presbyterianism was (since I was only vaguely familiar with it, just knew it was some kind of church denomination). I got a 3-volume book entitled "Presbyterians of the South" by Ernest Trice Thompson. In it they kept mentioning this "Westminster Confessions of Faith" and it took me a while to figure out that is what they believed (since I imagine the author figured that only Presbyterians would be reading this kind of book). So I grabbed a copy of that and it changed my life forever.

Now I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church but my parents were nominal Catholics. I received no real church upbringing. Even my Catholic school that I attended, I couldn't tell you much at all about the doctrines of the Catholic church. My parents stopped going to church while I was in highschool and my father started studying the Bible under this non-denominational preacher. I read most of it under him too and found it fascinating, the doctrines he talked about. Then my brother (who is an avid atheist) talked to me about how logically God and the Bible just didn't make much sense and I said, You know you're right it really doesn't. And I left off reading the Bible, that's when I became and atheist for around 15 years.

But when I read that book, the Westminster Confessions of Faith, the Bible was explained to me in a exceptionally logical way that I've never heard before. Everything about God and the Bible made perfect sense. There was an answer to everything--though it may not be an answer you really like. I read back through the Bible and it was like I never read it before. It was in the book of Matthew that I met my Lord and Savior Jesus. I just recall that I was struck by his love for me and his strength and compassion. I was called into his kingdom in February 2013.

It doesn't seem to me to be a very common thing, what happened to me. But I know that God used that document to draw me to him, just as he used D.H. Hill to get me to read it. Not sure if it would work for you, but the WCF is a very intellectual work and that would appear to be why it appealed to me. A lot of people on here don't like it, but hey--it helped bring one sinner to realize she needs a Savior so it can't be all that bad.

And that's what God used to draw me in and give me eyes to see and what I saw was my magnificent Savior and Lord Jesus--all Powerful and compassionate; boundless in mercy and boundless in strength. The book of John really gives a great depiction of his character, portrays his divinity. There is none beside him, our Lord. I don't care if all the logicians in the world definitively proved that belief in the Lord Jesus is the most stupid, senseless and un-intellectual thing anyone can ever do. I don't care. I love my Lord. He is all that matters in this world to me. I throw my stupid logic and intellectualism down the toilet; it is rubbish to me besides Jesus. I count all things rubbish compared to knowing Christ. He is my life and my everything. He is greater than anything you can ever have in this life.
 

Lemon

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I used to be an Atheist myself...later I became more of an Agnostic.....my philosophy was “ Who am ‘I’ to look up into the sky and declare that there is god”.......

I never really sought God—- it seemed like “ He” was seeking “ Me”.....

Here is what seems to be your present dilemma —- You need to read the “ Parable Of The Sower” where Jesus describes the Four types of ‘ Soil” or in reality, Human Hearts....Your Heart presently is represented by the “Hard Soil”......you hear the Word Of God but it does not penetrate your Heart....

You need to be “ Good Soil” , one whose “Heart has been opened “ to not only “ hear” the Gospel ( 1 Cor 15:1-4) but actually “ Believe” it and thereby become Saved.....

Only God, via His Holy Spirit , can “ open your heart” to the reception of the Gospel that can Save you......You probably do not believe in Satan , but the reality is that Satan has blinded you to the Truth Of The Gospel and you need God to do what Only “ HE” can do and that is to give you “ eyes to see and ears to hear”....Good Soil has these two Essentials and you don’t and therefore your Future is a dismal one....You are on your way to Eternal Damnation as I was at one time....

God does not need you— you can add nothing to Him....and “NOBODY comes to God lest The Spirit draw him” ..... Do what I did......Muster up what little Faith that you “ might” have and ask God to make you “ Good Soil” —- It worked for me...

The first thing that happens to “ Good Soil” —- the thing that makes a “Christian” a Christian, The “ Starting Gate Of the Faith” one could call it , is seeing that you are a Sinner That *MUST HAVE* a Savior .....That “ Conviction Of Sin” is a Thing that only the Holy Spirit can reveal to a man....that is what gives you a “ Contrite ( repentant) Heart , and THAT is the only type Of Heart that God will deal with....

If you don’t think that you are a Wretched Sinner That is on his way to a well- deserved Hell , you need to read the First Chapter Of Romans and if that doesn’t convince you try reading Jesus Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5,6 and 7..... hopefully, your Heart will be convicted of Sin and you will Turn to Jesus to get Saved, once you see that you can NOT Save yourself....Do THAT and you are Saved forever—— Faith is what Saves....Faith is Believing a Promise Of God ....Here is your promise — “ TURN to Me and I will Turn to you” ........I will pray that God will make you “ Good Soil”.....May God Bless you as he has blessed me....

Exactly. God led me down a very intellectual route. I was an atheist before knowing the Lord Jesus as my Saviour for around like 15 years. I was interested in the American Civil War nearly all my life (since 8th grade). After graduating from pharmacy school, I had a lot more time to read about that subject than previously when I was in school. I poured myself into the books. Ran into a character from that time period that just grabbed me. I wanted to know everything I could about him (Confederate general D.H. Hill). I found out he was a devout Presbyterian so I thought, what better way to know someone than to know about what they are really passionate about?

That's when I began studying what Presbyterianism was (since I was only vaguely familiar with it, just knew it was some kind of church denomination). I got a 3-volume book entitled "Presbyterians of the South" by Ernest Trice Thompson. In it they kept mentioning this "Westminster Confessions of Faith" and it took me a while to figure out that is what they believed (since I imagine the author figured that only Presbyterians would be reading this kind of book). So I grabbed a copy of that and it changed my life forever.

Now I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church but my parents were nominal Catholics. I received no real church upbringing. Even my Catholic school that I attended, I couldn't tell you much at all about the doctrines of the Catholic church. My parents stopped going to church while I was in highschool and my father started studying the Bible under this non-denominational preacher. I read most of it under him too and found it fascinating, the doctrines he talked about. Then my brother (who is an avid atheist) talked to me about how logically God and the Bible just didn't make much sense and I said, You know you're right it really doesn't. And I left off reading the Bible, that's when I became and atheist for around 15 years.

But when I read that book, the Westminster Confessions of Faith, the Bible was explained to me in a exceptionally logical way that I've never heard before. Everything about God and the Bible made perfect sense. There was an answer to everything--though it may not be an answer you really like. I read back through the Bible and it was like I never read it before. It was in the book of Matthew that I met my Lord and Savior Jesus. I just recall that I was struck by his love for me and his strength and compassion. I was called into his kingdom in February 2013.

It doesn't seem to me to be a very common thing, what happened to me. But I know that God used that document to draw me to him, just as he used D.H. Hill to get me to read it. Not sure if it would work for you, but the WCF is a very intellectual work and that would appear to be why it appealed to me. A lot of people on here don't like it, but hey--it helped bring one sinner to realize she needs a Savior so it can't be all that bad.

And that's what God used to draw me in and give me eyes to see and what I saw was my magnificent Savior and Lord Jesus--all Powerful and compassionate; boundless in mercy and boundless in strength. The book of John really gives a great depiction of his character, portrays his divinity. There is none beside him, our Lord. I don't care if all the logicians in the world definitively proved that belief in the Lord Jesus is the most stupid, senseless and un-intellectual thing anyone can ever do. I don't care. I love my Lord. He is all that matters in this world to me. I throw my stupid logic and intellectualism down the toilet; it is rubbish to me besides Jesus. I count all things rubbish compared to knowing Christ. He is my life and my everything. He is greater than anything you can ever have in this life.
Thanks to you both for your support. I will definitely take a look at these readings.
You now what, the funny thing is that I forgot to write down the answer that the whole text was initially about.
Two days ago, after randomly waking up at 3am which I hadn't been doing for a while, something came to my mind. I came to realize that Christians have something that I don't have: the ability to envision absolute good. Ah, the good old existential insomnias.

In a way, this is very powerful, and is the highest possible form of optimism. Maybe hell IS the lack of such optimism.
 
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quietthinker

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Having been raised into the teeny tiny French Hinduist community, I started my life with the default premise that there was a god. The belief in Karma, reincarnation and immutable morals were supposed to set my mind up for a dogma-led life. Yet, although I only have warm memories from this time, this is not how I turned out.

My parents completely turned away from religion when I was around 10, taking a more secular and philosophical approach to the Vedic teachings. As the brainy, curious and rational kid that I was, it wasn’t too hard for me to follow the current and drift away from the beliefs. In fact, my mom told me recently that one of the reasons why their faith weakened was that they often found themselves unable to answer my questions. I did grow into a bit of a rigid and skeptical know-it-all. In my defense, these traits were always presented by my peers as my biggest strength, and I became the face and heir of my family’s new approach to life: “question everything”.

But I found a way to take them by surprise. By the time I reached high school, the rock subculture I was into was led by excellent musicians, most of whom were young, cool, inspiring, and very Christian. Add to this: I had the chance of having as best friends the two sweetest, kindest, most loyal and most beautiful girls of the whole school, both very Christian. So you may understand why religion had found a new shine in my eyes. Soon, I started to study the Bible and attend church with my Protestant friend, and as you may imagine I did it the nerdy way and took it very seriously, for two years. I wanted to do the right thing and I thought that there way no way religion was such a big part of the human experience for no reason.

But I could not bring myself to believe, although I truly wanted to. Truly and sincerely, none of it made sense to me. I’m not going to list everything that had me doubt, but quite frankly if there was a God, why would He consider me as unworthy of saving because I couldn’t believe something on the simple basis of people saying “Oh, yeah, it’s true, trust me!!” Even if faith itself was something my mind could cling to, how do I know who to believe? Each year, every religion has bunches of people swearing on TV “My path is the right path, I saw God yesterday in a trance, He told me, trust me!!”

I couldn’t find a way to make it make sense. With both a new found frustration and fear of hell, I thought that the only thing that would free me from this puzzle would to throw it all away and simply live my life. On my way out, I promised to leave a window open for God, just in case. But the pendulum swing was stronger than expected.

From exiting high school to current days, I went through 10 atheist years of fun and frustration. Despite being proud of my fidelity to reason, I felt anger every single time I thought about religion. I was completely dumbfounded that so many grown adults could not only believe in fairy tales, but also abide by them. I would start speaking to someone who seemed perfectly sane and somewhat intelligent, find out they were religious, and think “Why?? How do you do this?”. I never rage out of differences. I rage out of inability to understand a perspective.

That was until very recently. As I discovered in myself a new thirst for knowledge, my mind started to loosen up. By exploring psychology, philosophy and simply looking back on life, I realized that stone cold reason is only one half of being human. The other half is feeling, and is just as valid. One could use some of the famous arguments that give reasonable grounds for the existence of God, but there are ways to counter them all and in fact, it isn’t what believing is about. Just like you could list every practical reason that can justify marrying your significant other, but none of them are really what made you fall in love. You just did, period. I now understand that faith works on the same basis as falling in love.

It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger. I truly wish I were you. I'm taking baby steps, but it is far from easy.
Hey there Lemon, I liked your post! I have found there is something about the resurrected Jesus that defies any type of logic and I am open to that. If it is a lie, then pitch it overboard; if on the other hand it is the truth, it becomes a game changer (and that irrespective of the tinsel hung around it) and makes me sit up.....very straight!
 
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ScottA

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Having been raised into the teeny tiny French Hinduist community, I started my life with the default premise that there was a god. The belief in Karma, reincarnation and immutable morals were supposed to set my mind up for a dogma-led life. Yet, although I only have warm memories from this time, this is not how I turned out.

My parents completely turned away from religion when I was around 10, taking a more secular and philosophical approach to the Vedic teachings. As the brainy, curious and rational kid that I was, it wasn’t too hard for me to follow the current and drift away from the beliefs. In fact, my mom told me recently that one of the reasons why their faith weakened was that they often found themselves unable to answer my questions. I did grow into a bit of a rigid and skeptical know-it-all. In my defense, these traits were always presented by my peers as my biggest strength, and I became the face and heir of my family’s new approach to life: “question everything”.

But I found a way to take them by surprise. By the time I reached high school, the rock subculture I was into was led by excellent musicians, most of whom were young, cool, inspiring, and very Christian. Add to this: I had the chance of having as best friends the two sweetest, kindest, most loyal and most beautiful girls of the whole school, both very Christian. So you may understand why religion had found a new shine in my eyes. Soon, I started to study the Bible and attend church with my Protestant friend, and as you may imagine I did it the nerdy way and took it very seriously, for two years. I wanted to do the right thing and I thought that there way no way religion was such a big part of the human experience for no reason.

But I could not bring myself to believe, although I truly wanted to. Truly and sincerely, none of it made sense to me. I’m not going to list everything that had me doubt, but quite frankly if there was a God, why would He consider me as unworthy of saving because I couldn’t believe something on the simple basis of people saying “Oh, yeah, it’s true, trust me!!” Even if faith itself was something my mind could cling to, how do I know who to believe? Each year, every religion has bunches of people swearing on TV “My path is the right path, I saw God yesterday in a trance, He told me, trust me!!”

I couldn’t find a way to make it make sense. With both a new found frustration and fear of hell, I thought that the only thing that would free me from this puzzle would to throw it all away and simply live my life. On my way out, I promised to leave a window open for God, just in case. But the pendulum swing was stronger than expected.

From exiting high school to current days, I went through 10 atheist years of fun and frustration. Despite being proud of my fidelity to reason, I felt anger every single time I thought about religion. I was completely dumbfounded that so many grown adults could not only believe in fairy tales, but also abide by them. I would start speaking to someone who seemed perfectly sane and somewhat intelligent, find out they were religious, and think “Why?? How do you do this?”. I never rage out of differences. I rage out of inability to understand a perspective.

That was until very recently. As I discovered in myself a new thirst for knowledge, my mind started to loosen up. By exploring psychology, philosophy and simply looking back on life, I realized that stone cold reason is only one half of being human. The other half is feeling, and is just as valid. One could use some of the famous arguments that give reasonable grounds for the existence of God, but there are ways to counter them all and in fact, it isn’t what believing is about. Just like you could list every practical reason that can justify marrying your significant other, but none of them are really what made you fall in love. You just did, period. I now understand that faith works on the same basis as falling in love.

It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger. I truly wish I were you. I'm taking baby steps, but it is far from easy.
Everyone has their own story. Each is presented with a choice...which is life or death. Therefore, choose life.
 
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Dropship

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..It’s still very hard for me to believe..

Jesus was a great rebel and role model, blowing the snooty priestly classes out of the water, that's easy enough to believe..:)

HIGH PRIEST- "Jesus of Nazareth alias the Messiah, the Christ and the Son of God, you stand accused of upsetting us real bad, how do you plead?"
JESUS- "On yer bike mate!"
jesus-point.jpg
 

bbyrd009

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I realized that stone cold reason is only one half of being human. The other half is feeling, and is just as valid
Adam and Eve, encapsulated
imo

the existence of God
existence implies “objective evidence,” right? What if Yah is like above all that? God is what causes stuff to exist, iow

I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away
Test everything, and keep what is good

And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me?
Esau eats red stew, apparently inherits despite having his inheritance stolen from him, and comes to his end as Edom, right? Jacob wrestles with God, and goes on to become Israel :)

and ntmy, im mark
 

farouk

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Exactly. God led me down a very intellectual route. I was an atheist before knowing the Lord Jesus as my Saviour for around like 15 years. I was interested in the American Civil War nearly all my life (since 8th grade). After graduating from pharmacy school, I had a lot more time to read about that subject than previously when I was in school. I poured myself into the books. Ran into a character from that time period that just grabbed me. I wanted to know everything I could about him (Confederate general D.H. Hill). I found out he was a devout Presbyterian so I thought, what better way to know someone than to know about what they are really passionate about?

That's when I began studying what Presbyterianism was (since I was only vaguely familiar with it, just knew it was some kind of church denomination). I got a 3-volume book entitled "Presbyterians of the South" by Ernest Trice Thompson. In it they kept mentioning this "Westminster Confessions of Faith" and it took me a while to figure out that is what they believed (since I imagine the author figured that only Presbyterians would be reading this kind of book). So I grabbed a copy of that and it changed my life forever.

Now I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church but my parents were nominal Catholics. I received no real church upbringing. Even my Catholic school that I attended, I couldn't tell you much at all about the doctrines of the Catholic church. My parents stopped going to church while I was in highschool and my father started studying the Bible under this non-denominational preacher. I read most of it under him too and found it fascinating, the doctrines he talked about. Then my brother (who is an avid atheist) talked to me about how logically God and the Bible just didn't make much sense and I said, You know you're right it really doesn't. And I left off reading the Bible, that's when I became and atheist for around 15 years.

But when I read that book, the Westminster Confessions of Faith, the Bible was explained to me in a exceptionally logical way that I've never heard before. Everything about God and the Bible made perfect sense. There was an answer to everything--though it may not be an answer you really like. I read back through the Bible and it was like I never read it before. It was in the book of Matthew that I met my Lord and Savior Jesus. I just recall that I was struck by his love for me and his strength and compassion. I was called into his kingdom in February 2013.

It doesn't seem to me to be a very common thing, what happened to me. But I know that God used that document to draw me to him, just as he used D.H. Hill to get me to read it. Not sure if it would work for you, but the WCF is a very intellectual work and that would appear to be why it appealed to me. A lot of people on here don't like it, but hey--it helped bring one sinner to realize she needs a Savior so it can't be all that bad.

And that's what God used to draw me in and give me eyes to see and what I saw was my magnificent Savior and Lord Jesus--all Powerful and compassionate; boundless in mercy and boundless in strength. The book of John really gives a great depiction of his character, portrays his divinity. There is none beside him, our Lord. I don't care if all the logicians in the world definitively proved that belief in the Lord Jesus is the most stupid, senseless and un-intellectual thing anyone can ever do. I don't care. I love my Lord. He is all that matters in this world to me. I throw my stupid logic and intellectualism down the toilet; it is rubbish to me besides Jesus. I count all things rubbish compared to knowing Christ. He is my life and my everything. He is greater than anything you can ever have in this life.
Hi @dhh712

Interesting indeed to read about your testimony.

For something to "ring true" is indeed significant, as the conscience is engaged.

I do think also that the principle of revelation is even higher than the principle of logic. For example, the Medieval Schoolmen were highly logical and their style of doing theology has been influential, but then some of what they held was directly against what is revealed in Scripture. At the Renaissance and Reformation, it was the integrity of sources and the piecing together of the meaning of words in context which really brought about the revival of learning and the emergence of the pure Gospel demonstrably from Scripture.
 
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dhh712

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@dhh712 Reminds me of Philippians 3.8....
That's probably where I got it from; often can't remember where in the Bible the verses are.

Hi @dhh712

Interesting indeed to read about your testimony.

For something to "ring true" is indeed significant, as the conscience is engaged.

I do think also that the principle of revelation is even higher than the principle of logic. For example, the Medieval Schoolmen were highly logical and their style of doing theology has been influential, but then some of what they held was directly against what is revealed in Scripture. At the Renaissance and Reformation, it was the integrity of sources and the piecing together of the meaning of words in context which really brought about the revival of learning and the emergence of the pure Gospel demonstrably from Scripture.

Yes, I did just listen to a Sunday School series on how the Reformation and Renaissance influenced the scientific revolution (it was a very poor sound quality so I could only catch like half the words); but he did talk about how I think it was like the interpretation of the information was what was different about Christianity up to that point.

Would probably listen to that series again if it wasn't such a poor quality because I know that's not the words he used. But one of the things he wanted to bring up was how non-believers would say how Christianity didn't influence the scientific revolution because it didn't happen until like around the 1700s and Christianity was going on way before that. But it was the Reformation and the way the Bible was looked at which was different from the way it was looked at prior to that time.

Again, it was such a poor audio quality that I just can't recall the words he used; very frustrating, since the topic is like astronomically interesting to me (Christianity and Science). It was really cool the way he talked about (and this one class session had the clearest audio) how the Chinese had the most advanced technology (printing press way before Gutenberg), but because of their worldview, the way they looked at time as--I wish I could remember the exact term--like an eternal cyclical thing (eternal returns?), they couldn't utilize the advances the way the western world, with the influence of Christianity which did not have that worldview concept of eternal returns did. And that is why Christianity, specifically during the Reformation, had such a powerful influence on scientific development because of the differing worldview.

I'm probably going to have to listen to that series again (definitely the part that was clear) and see if I can make out more words. Oh, one thing I kept going back over and over again until I could piece together what he was talking about was how modern philosophical thought (like I think it's post-modernism), one of the most influential effect it has on Christianity is to render it's belief meaningless. Again, I'll have to go back to piece together what exactly he's talking about here. But I think it was due to how we live in this world with our senses and have no sentience of the supernatural so it is meaningless to us (I want to say he referenced Emmanuel Kant with this).

This was tied to an idea that I have regarding the state of our being and the supernatural--like how it would be impossible to prove anything like that since we are confined to the five senses we have to perceive this world with; we have no access to the spiritual world lest the Lord God gives life to our spirit; and that we are able to attain to by faith alone (and some people certainly do have that "sixth" sense, but that again can never be proven; and I personally believe that outside of the spiritual rebirth that comes from God, all other spiritual inclinations are demonic). We can give no evidence of our spiritual life; the most evidence we can give is of our changed life (like how it changed me after my conversion); yet, this will not be acceptable evidence since the root of the change--the spiritual--cannot be accessed by the senses. The cause of the change can be attributed to something else, something that our sense can perceive.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Having been raised into the teeny tiny French Hinduist community, I started my life with the default premise that there was a god. The belief in Karma, reincarnation and immutable morals were supposed to set my mind up for a dogma-led life. Yet, although I only have warm memories from this time, this is not how I turned out.

My parents completely turned away from religion when I was around 10, taking a more secular and philosophical approach to the Vedic teachings. As the brainy, curious and rational kid that I was, it wasn’t too hard for me to follow the current and drift away from the beliefs. In fact, my mom told me recently that one of the reasons why their faith weakened was that they often found themselves unable to answer my questions. I did grow into a bit of a rigid and skeptical know-it-all. In my defense, these traits were always presented by my peers as my biggest strength, and I became the face and heir of my family’s new approach to life: “question everything”.

But I found a way to take them by surprise. By the time I reached high school, the rock subculture I was into was led by excellent musicians, most of whom were young, cool, inspiring, and very Christian. Add to this: I had the chance of having as best friends the two sweetest, kindest, most loyal and most beautiful girls of the whole school, both very Christian. So you may understand why religion had found a new shine in my eyes. Soon, I started to study the Bible and attend church with my Protestant friend, and as you may imagine I did it the nerdy way and took it very seriously, for two years. I wanted to do the right thing and I thought that there way no way religion was such a big part of the human experience for no reason.

But I could not bring myself to believe, although I truly wanted to. Truly and sincerely, none of it made sense to me. I’m not going to list everything that had me doubt, but quite frankly if there was a God, why would He consider me as unworthy of saving because I couldn’t believe something on the simple basis of people saying “Oh, yeah, it’s true, trust me!!” Even if faith itself was something my mind could cling to, how do I know who to believe? Each year, every religion has bunches of people swearing on TV “My path is the right path, I saw God yesterday in a trance, He told me, trust me!!”

I couldn’t find a way to make it make sense. With both a new found frustration and fear of hell, I thought that the only thing that would free me from this puzzle would to throw it all away and simply live my life. On my way out, I promised to leave a window open for God, just in case. But the pendulum swing was stronger than expected.

From exiting high school to current days, I went through 10 atheist years of fun and frustration. Despite being proud of my fidelity to reason, I felt anger every single time I thought about religion. I was completely dumbfounded that so many grown adults could not only believe in fairy tales, but also abide by them. I would start speaking to someone who seemed perfectly sane and somewhat intelligent, find out they were religious, and think “Why?? How do you do this?”. I never rage out of differences. I rage out of inability to understand a perspective.

That was until very recently. As I discovered in myself a new thirst for knowledge, my mind started to loosen up. By exploring psychology, philosophy and simply looking back on life, I realized that stone cold reason is only one half of being human. The other half is feeling, and is just as valid. One could use some of the famous arguments that give reasonable grounds for the existence of God, but there are ways to counter them all and in fact, it isn’t what believing is about. Just like you could list every practical reason that can justify marrying your significant other, but none of them are really what made you fall in love. You just did, period. I now understand that faith works on the same basis as falling in love.

It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger. I truly wish I were you. I'm taking baby steps, but it is far from easy.

Well, at least you’ve discovered that human reasoning can’t find God, if He exists. Some men go the route of apologetics and become convinced but I’ve never understood what good that does for them because, as you’ve said, they don’t prove it really, and I could no more have believed in God than I could believe fairies existed. My upbringing had a lot to do with that. Since I was lied to about Santa Claus, and fell for it spectacularly, I just assumed God was the adult form of that. I would have NEVER believed unless God Himself came to me. I was in an odd place in my early forties where I saw that all the things I had gone after because they were supposed to fulfill you and make you happy had NOT done so and that everything was just…very insufficient. So I began reading everything I could to try to find something to go after and rest in. I wasn’t suicidal, just very perplexed, and I did have the thought that if acquiring things and stuff was all there was, and then no existence in death, those who killed themselves were probably the smart ones. At least they didn’t have to ever again see or read about people abusing other people, children, animals, ever again. They didn’t have to suffer the pains and sicknesses of old age. At least they had seen the insufficiency and ridiculousness of acquiring a bunch of stuff only to get old and then die. I read philosophers, ideologies, even string theory and, well, just everything I could think might help me to find anything to rest in or grab. I watched a show about Nostradamus and began looking into psychics and prophecies. I exhausted myself and still found only insufficiency. Because all the horrors still were there, whether people comforted themselves with stuff or not.

I first picked up a Bible during that psychics and predictors phase because I wanted to know what it predicted about the future. I started at the beginning, like you do with any book. I quickly saw the literary device of fairytale. I mean, the prince and princess, enchanted kingdom, good vs evil - there was even a poison piece of fruit like in Snow White. But I saw it was a poorly written fairytale, so I skipped to the end to see how it ended. And I recognized the literary device of sci-fi, but once again, very poorly written sci-fi. Why would people love such poorly written stories? I became frustrated/disgusted and threw the book against the wall, wondering WHY people loved it so much??! And what book begins as fairytale and ends as science fiction?? Then I thought, oh, right…they read it because Jesus is in it somewhere…? So I picked it up again and searched for where He came into the story and I finally figured out why some of the words were in red ink.
I started with Mathew and I rolled my eyes at this man who didn’t seem to understand how the world worked, even though He was so likable. I knew they would kill Him because that’s what happens with good, gentle and likable men. By the time I got to Mark and Luke, I found myself wishing the world could be as He seemed to think. Then I saw He wasn’t talking about the world but about some different kingdom. By the time I got into John, I had fallen in love with this good man and suspected, because of Him, that God maybe did exist, so I talked to Him, stupid as that felt. A week later, He came to me, in dramatic fashion. Nothing else would have taken me from hope and wishing to knowing He existed. It’s been a wild 16 years since then, joy, frustration, awe, sometimes anger and accusations, but always amazement at how He hides Himself from human reasoning.
I hope you find Him. He wants to be found. But just know that if you do find Him, the world still does not change and does not become sufficient and life doesn’t get easier but becomes harder for awhile, but you undergo a paradigm shift over the ensuing years and begin to see things very differently.
 

Grailhunter

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@Lemon @dhh712

It is good to know that we have a few articulate literary craftsmen here.

Lemon do not think that intelligence and education hinder your quest for God. Ultimately this will end with rock solid confidence....mazel tov!

The reason I know this....I cannot explain in full because people think I am bragging. But I will tell you I was reading the Bible in first grade....in college at 15....On nuclear submarines at 20.....shanghaied by the government at 24.....I have been at nearly every top secret facility there is and most of my work was with Quantum science at various levels.....worked with and hobnobbed with people that are certified geniuses.

So if someone like me has all the confidence in Christianity that I have....you can too.
It does not matter if it is Quantum Physics or Quantum Mechanics or Quantum Theoretical Physicists or Astro Physics....they are all on the path to prove God....How? Through their failures and how they fail. All this is worked out in Quantum math...scientific notation so their failures are documented. But it does not matter if it is the Theory of relativity or String Theory or Dark Matter....Subatomic Particles or Quirks, they reach a dead end. But that math is correct, if not, reactors and Hydrogen Bombs and your microwave oven would not work....

The inside story is that some of these geniuses are closet Christians LOL or at least agnostic. When I use to sit with these guys in their offices or cubicles, drinking Coke and eating pizza, they.....we would discuss intelligent design. Einstein's theory of the time continuum functions in Christianity. And don't worry about believing in things you cannot see....LOL...there is more of that in science than in religion.

So I have confidence that you can work this out.
 
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quietthinker

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Well, at least you’ve discovered that human reasoning can’t find God, if He exists. Some men go the route of apologetics and become convinced but I’ve never understood what good that does for them because, as you’ve said, they don’t prove it really, and I could no more have believed in God than I could believe fairies existed. My upbringing had a lot to do with that. Since I was lied to about Santa Claus, and fell for it spectacularly, I just assumed God was the adult form of that. I would have NEVER believed unless God Himself came to me. I was in an odd place in my early forties where I saw that all the things I had gone after because they were supposed to fulfill you and make you happy had NOT done so and that everything was just…very insufficient. So I began reading everything I could to try to find something to go after and rest in. I wasn’t suicidal, just very perplexed, and I did have the thought that if acquiring things and stuff was all there was, and then no existence in death, those who killed themselves were probably the smart ones. At least they didn’t have to ever again see or read about people abusing other people, children, animals, ever again. They didn’t have to suffer the pains and sicknesses of old age. At least they had seen the insufficiency and ridiculousness of acquiring a bunch of stuff only to get old and then die. I read philosophers, ideologies, even string theory and, well, just everything I could think might help me to find anything to rest in or grab. I watched a show about Nostradamus and began looking into psychics and prophecies. I exhausted myself and still found only insufficiency. Because all the horrors still were there, whether people comforted themselves with stuff or not.

I first picked up a Bible during that psychics and predictors phase because I wanted to know what it predicted about the future. I started at the beginning, like you do with any book. I quickly saw the literary device of fairytale. I mean, the prince and princess, enchanted kingdom, good vs evil - there was even a poison piece of fruit like in Snow White. But I saw it was a poorly written fairytale, so I skipped to the end to see how it ended. And I recognized the literary device of sci-fi, but once again, very poorly written sci-fi. Why would people love such poorly written stories? I became frustrated/disgusted and threw the book against the wall, wondering WHY people loved it so much??! And what book begins as fairytale and ends as science fiction?? Then I thought, oh, right…they read it because Jesus is in it somewhere…? So I picked it up again and searched for where He came into the story and I finally figured out why some of the words were in red ink.
I started with Mathew and I rolled my eyes at this man who didn’t seem to understand how the world worked, even though He was so likable. I knew they would kill Him because that’s what happens with good, gentle and likable men. By the time I got to Mark and Luke, I found myself wishing the world could be as He seemed to think. Then I saw He wasn’t talking about the world but about some different kingdom. By the time I got into John, I had fallen in love with this good man and suspected, because of Him, that God maybe did exist, so I talked to Him, stupid as that felt. A week later, He came to me, in dramatic fashion. Nothing else would have taken me from hope and wishing to knowing He existed. It’s been a wild 16 years since then, joy, frustration, awe, sometimes anger and accusations, but always amazement at how He hides Himself from human reasoning.
I hope you find Him. He wants to be found. But just know that if you do find Him, the world still does not change and does not become sufficient and life doesn’t get easier but becomes harder for awhile, but you undergo a paradigm shift over the ensuing years and begin to see things very differently.
your story sbg, warms my heart and makes me want to reach out and hug you.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Trying to convince someone God exists just seems like an exercise of futility. God Himself must do it. Otherwise, you haven’t given a man anything of substance that will truly help him or change him, you’ve just given him arguments. I was blind too. You could NEVER have argued me into believing. And I was a seething cauldron of resentments and angers.
 

quietthinker

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Trying to convince someone God exists just seems like an exercise of futility. God Himself must do it. Otherwise, you haven’t given a man anything of substance that will truly help him or change him, you’ve just given him arguments. I was blind too. You could NEVER have argued me into believing.
The existence of God is written on every cell. Denial of it is mans attempt to justify himself (either consciously or unconsciously)
God has not left himself without witness....even to those who are in darkness. As Paul says in Romans 10:8, he is as near as our heart and our mouth.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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The existence of God is written on every cell. Denial of it is mans attempt to justify himself (either consciously or unconsciously)
God has not left himself without witness....even to those who are in darkness. As Paul says in Romans 10:8, he is as near as our heart and our mouth.

I think we were all born blind and will continue in that blindness unless God heals it. I think He knows when each person is ready for love.
The op does not seem like a man who is trying to justify himself to me. He seems very sincere, forthright and honest. He just wants to be happy.
 
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farouk

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That's probably where I got it from; often can't remember where in the Bible the verses are.



Yes, I did just listen to a Sunday School series on how the Reformation and Renaissance influenced the scientific revolution (it was a very poor sound quality so I could only catch like half the words); but he did talk about how I think it was like the interpretation of the information was what was different about Christianity up to that point.

Would probably listen to that series again if it wasn't such a poor quality because I know that's not the words he used. But one of the things he wanted to bring up was how non-believers would say how Christianity didn't influence the scientific revolution because it didn't happen until like around the 1700s and Christianity was going on way before that. But it was the Reformation and the way the Bible was looked at which was different from the way it was looked at prior to that time.

Again, it was such a poor audio quality that I just can't recall the words he used; very frustrating, since the topic is like astronomically interesting to me (Christianity and Science). It was really cool the way he talked about (and this one class session had the clearest audio) how the Chinese had the most advanced technology (printing press way before Gutenberg), but because of their worldview, the way they looked at time as--I wish I could remember the exact term--like an eternal cyclical thing (eternal returns?), they couldn't utilize the advances the way the western world, with the influence of Christianity which did not have that worldview concept of eternal returns did. And that is why Christianity, specifically during the Reformation, had such a powerful influence on scientific development because of the differing worldview.

I'm probably going to have to listen to that series again (definitely the part that was clear) and see if I can make out more words. Oh, one thing I kept going back over and over again until I could piece together what he was talking about was how modern philosophical thought (like I think it's post-modernism), one of the most influential effect it has on Christianity is to render it's belief meaningless. Again, I'll have to go back to piece together what exactly he's talking about here. But I think it was due to how we live in this world with our senses and have no sentience of the supernatural so it is meaningless to us (I want to say he referenced Emmanuel Kant with this).

This was tied to an idea that I have regarding the state of our being and the supernatural--like how it would be impossible to prove anything like that since we are confined to the five senses we have to perceive this world with; we have no access to the spiritual world lest the Lord God gives life to our spirit; and that we are able to attain to by faith alone (and some people certainly do have that "sixth" sense, but that again can never be proven; and I personally believe that outside of the spiritual rebirth that comes from God, all other spiritual inclinations are demonic). We can give no evidence of our spiritual life; the most evidence we can give is of our changed life (like how it changed me after my conversion); yet, this will not be acceptable evidence since the root of the change--the spiritual--cannot be accessed by the senses. The cause of the change can be attributed to something else, something that our sense can perceive.
@dhh712 I think it's a healthy habit all round for young ppl to be encouraged to commit Scripture to memory. It serves them very well for the decades ahead.
 
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farouk

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@dhh712 Thanks for the 'like'; I know many Christians feel encouraging young ppl to memorize Scripture is very important.

Psalm 119.11: "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
 

dhh712

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@dhh712 Thanks for the 'like'; I know many Christians feel encouraging young ppl to memorize Scripture is very important.

Psalm 119.11: "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
It's definitely something to be encouraged.
 
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