What are Your Feelings on Tithes

[Rocky Wiley]

.

I remember a missionary that came to the church to fundraise. He told us what was happening, and what God was doing. He then asked, "Are you willing to drop everything, you friends, your extended family, your home, your career path and your job, and be a missionary for God?" lf you cannot do that yourself, why not support those of us that are willing to go? This is your participation in this ministry."

I see most of the call to support the ministry in the New Testament being directed towards the traveling preacher, who does not know where they will sleep that night, or when they will see their next meal. The design of support was much more than providing a 9-5 job and a Sermon on Sunday. I do not see it as seeking to hire a CEO for a business. Not so much to give to support a paycheck, but more of an extension of ourselves to enable someone that is called and willing to make it their life as a Missionary for God. I believe that it it is not so much that I am paying a light bill, or giving a Pastor a paycheck, but through my giving, I am enabling someone to do what I am not ready to do myself.

In this, I am more of a fan of the working Pastor model, where the burden is not laid so heavily to "employ" a Missionary, but that the Missionary also invest into the that the work they say is their life and passion. I just do not see the "Hireling" model to be all that Scriptural.

I do not condemn giving to the church or even giving to the pastor, but don't tell me how much that should be. I am not living in the age of law and I should be allowed to determine the amount I give.

I went to a church for about 5 years at one church and they never ask for your tithe. They even posted the amount they had received on the bulletin board and believe me it paid the bills.
There was another time when a couple came into the church who said they were going across country and were unable to buy gas to make it any farther. Was that true? Could be! The pastor, not questioning their story, told them during the Sunday morning service to come back to church that evening. They did and at the very end of service ask the congregation for a love offering for this family. As I remember it was announced that we had donated more than $500 to go to that family. I mean it was the kindest jesture I had ever been apart of in church. I mean we felt the full love of God that evening.

 

[justbyfaith]

I've said my piece in this thread, and there is no use in repeating myself.

You can take what I have said on the matter or you can leave it.

I will say that I think you will be better off if you take it rather than leaving it.

But I am beginning to grow weary in well-doing (beginning to experience a degree of burnout); and I covet the prayers of the saints on this matter.

posted before #321 was on the board.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

I've said my piece in this thread, and there is no use in repeating myself.

You can take what I have said on the matter or you can leave it.

I will say that I think you will be better off if you take it rather than leaving it.

But I am beginning to grow weary in well-doing (beginning to experience a degree of burnout); and I covet the prayers of the saints on this matter.

posted before #321 was on the board.

I, for one, will pray for you.

 

[justbyfaith]

I, for one, will pray for you.

I appreciate it, brother.

 

[Candidus]

.


I do not condemn giving to the church or even giving to the pastor, but don't tell me how much that should be. I am not living in the age of law and I should be allowed to determine the amount I give.

I went to a church for about 5 years at one church and they never ask for your tithe. They even posted the amount they had received on the bulletin board and believe me it paid the bills.
There was another time when a couple came into the church who said they were going across country and were unable to buy gas to make it any farther. Was that true? Could be! The pastor, not questioning their story, told them during the Sunday morning service to come back to church that evening. They did and at the very end of service ask the congregation for a love offering for this family. As I remember it was announced that we had donated more than $500 to go to that family. I mean it was the kindest jesture I had ever been apart of in church. I mean we felt the full love of God that evening.

The Old Pastor of the Church I was going to had been around a few years. I asked him how he knew who to help that came by. He said that it was really hard to tell who is in real need, and who is not. He relayed what happened one Sunday that a traveling family showed up. They were traveling through and had no money. They were not well dressed, and their three young children didn't even have shoes! The Church took pity on them and passed the plate to help them out. A substantial amount was raised considering how on how they only had what they had on their persons at the time.

They had a pot luck that day, and they fed and visited with the family. As they were leaving to put their dishes into their cars to go home, the Traveling Family backed-up and left.... three pairs of shoes neatly lined up in the rear window!

I asked about how outraged he must have been. He said, "No, people gave from their heart, and God will remember that!"

 

[Enoch111]

In the NTC the leadership was always plural as in "Elders."

I agree. But Wiley denies even that, claiming that the elders were not pastors.

 

[Stan B]

LC627 said: Also, Churches don't need some paid positions such as a worship leaders, secretaries, etc.

It would depend on size of Church.

But I agree about the paid positions.

Whether a minister who occupies the pulpit, or the minister of music, i.e organist, choirmaster, et al. they deserve to be paid in accordance with their responsibilities. I don't know how much they are paid these days, but back 30 years ago, organists-choirmasters were paid $70,000 per year.

It is not as if the guy who provides a sermon is any more important to the worship experience than the one who provides the musical experience.

 

[Stan B]

.


I do not condemn giving to the church or even giving to the pastor, but don't tell me how much that should be. I am not living in the age of law and I should be allowed to determine the amount I give.

The Law of the Tithe gives us God's thoughts on the matter, and the Law of the Tithe is not something you will ever hear preached in any church. It is a three-year plan.

For the first two years, it is to be set aside for a combination of family vacation and Thanksgiving:

“You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year. You shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you, then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Only in the third year is the tithe is to be divided amongst the Levites, the alien, widows and orphans:

"Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you. At the end of every third year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall deposit it in your town. The Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and the alien, the orphan and the widow who are in your town, shall come and eat and be satisfied, in order that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do."
Deuteronomy 14:22-29

Under the Law, the amount that should be designated for the 'church' works out to be 3.3% per anum. During my 70 years in the church, I have never heard this definitive passage of Scripture used to reveal the true Will of God on tithing.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Whether a minister who occupies the pulpit, or the minister of music, i.e organist, choirmaster, et al. they deserve to be paid in accordance with their responsibilities. I don't know how much they are paid these days, but back 30 years ago, organists-choirmasters were paid $70,000 per year.

It is not as if the guy who provides a sermon is any more important to the worship experience than the one who provides the musical experience.

Too much! My mother grew up under a pastor, her dad. She learned how to play piano by ear and did so at church. She never ask for pay or got any. When you say they are worth $70,000 I say to the pastor, "teach your daughter to play". If one is going to church for money, they don't belong in church! Find someone in church that is willing to play without pay, there are probably many.

 

[Stan B]

Too much! My mother grew up under a pastor, her dad. She learned how to play piano by ear and did so at church. She never ask for pay or got any. When you say they are worth $70,000 I say to the pastor, "teach your daughter to play". If one is going to church for money, they don't belong in church! Find someone in church that is willing to play without pay, there are probably many.

There is a vast gulf between some untrained chick fiddling around with a piano learning play by ear, i.e can't even read music! and and and organist who has spend over a decade studying to play the world's most challenging instrument, the organ; just as there is a vast difference between mere noise and real music.

Being an organist/choirmaster is an extremely demanding fulltime job! Since there is no time left over for a second occupation, how do you figure they are going to keep bread on the table, even is they could afford a table?

No wonder so-called 'church music' is at the very bottom of the musical garbage heap!!

 

[marksman]

I agree. But Wiley denies even that, claiming that the elders were not pastors.

There was no condition to being an elder that they should be a shepherd. Some were and some weren't. Some were teachers and some weren't. They were all overseers but that is where the all stopped.

 

[marksman]

I'm leaving you alone. I don't know how to bridge the gap between me and you. May the Lord abundantly bless you, brother.

I can tell you how to do that by quoting the leader fo a national advocacy group for autistic people. She said a few days ago that society has to accommodate autistic people. Autistic people do not have to accommodate society as they cannot change as much as they would like to.

 

[Stan B]

I can tell you how to do that by quoting the leader fo a national advocacy group for autistic people. She said a few days ago that society has to accommodate autistic people. Autistic people do not have to accommodate society as they cannot change as much as they would like to.

My son runs a large precision manufacturing facility. He has no problem whatsoever in hiring autistic employees. It has merely taken a little effort on his part to learn their language, and after that he has experienced no communication problems with them.

 

[marksman]

My son runs a large precision manufacturing facility. He has no problem whatsoever in hiring autistic employees. It has merely taken a little effort on his part to learn their language, and after that he has experienced no communication problems with them.

Well, who would have thought that Stan B agrees with me?

 

[Rocky Wiley]

There is a vast gulf between some untrained chick fiddling around with a piano learning play by ear, i.e can't even read music! and and and organist who has spend over a decade studying to play the world's most challenging instrument, the organ; just as there is a vast difference between mere noise and real music.

Being an organist/choirmaster is an extremely demanding fulltime job! Since there is no time left over for a second occupation, how do you figure they are going to keep bread on the table, even is they could afford a table?

No wonder so-called 'church music' is at the very bottom of the musical garbage heap!!

My worship of God does not depend upon music.

 

[bbyrd009]

My worship of God does not depend upon music.

how did we ever come to call that worship i wonder?
your gatherigs do more harm than good

 

[bbyrd009]

so fwiw to anyone who is wondering where the storehouse is today, i suggest maybe going and looking for it, bc it still exists, and give to them maybe? Go looking on a like a Tuesday afternoon though imo

 

[Stan B]

My worship of God does not depend upon music.

While that may be your personal preference, God's idea of worship does depend upon music. If you study the layout of the Temple, it was arranged with balconies on each side for the antiphonal choirs. God says:

Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty expanse.
Praise Him for His mighty deeds;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness.

Praise Him with trumpet sound;
Praise Him with harp and lyre.
Praise Him with timbrel and dancing;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and organs.
Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with resounding cymbals.
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord! Psalm 150

 

[justbyfaith]

I can tell you how to do that by quoting the leader fo a national advocacy group for autistic people. She said a few days ago that society has to accommodate autistic people. Autistic people do not have to accommodate society as they cannot change as much as they would like to.

It remains that it is the choice of individuals in society as to whether they will "accommodate" autistic people.

Some people have better things to do with their time than to try and figure out how to deal with them according to their disability.

Some would need to specialize therefore in dealing with autistics and the rest, who specialize in other things, will have to leave it up to them to minister to them.

But I think that, you can still benefit from what I teach about the word, even though I am not specifically attempting to reach you with accommodation of your disability. Because I don't think that it is as bad of a disability as many people think.

I may have it myself in a mild form. I am laser-focused on the word of God to the point that many social graces are ignored by me. I tend not to really get to know the people that I minister to, and that can be detrimental to everything I am trying to accomplish.

It's not as bad today as it used to be; so I do think that if someone is disabled in this manner that they can grow out of it by learning.

And therefore I believe that autistic people should at least attempt to accommodate society by meeting us halfway.

 

[marksman]

It remains that it is the choice of individuals in society as to whether they will "accommodate" autistic people.

Some people have better things to do with their time than to try and figure out how to deal with them according to their disability.

Some would need to specialize therefore in dealing with autistics and the rest, who specialize in other things, will have to leave it up to them to minister to them.

But I think that, you can still benefit from what I teach about the word, even though I am not specifically attempting to reach you with accommodation of your disability. Because I don't think that it is as bad of a disability as many people think.

I may have it myself in a mild form. I am laser-focused on the word of God to the point that many social graces are ignored by me. I tend not to really get to know the people that I minister to, and that can be detrimental to everything I am trying to accomplish.

It's not as bad today as it used to be; so I do think that if someone is disabled in this manner that they can grow out of it by learning.

And therefore I believe that autistic people should at least attempt to accommodate society by meeting us halfway.

Thank you for your unexpert and unhelpful advice.