It's the congregations role as a whole to worship God. Not a man on stage
What are Your Feelings on Tithes
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It's the congregations role as a whole to worship God. Not a man on stage
A lot of little churches in Australia really don't get much at all to pay expenses.
Worship leaders, in today's church, are like those elders who rule well, labouring in the word and doctrine...worthy of double honour as pertains to income.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Size of the congregation does matter. If a church as excess to pay people jobs they can do for free then they don't have a clear mission statement and are mismanaging funds that could be used elsewhere
See Psalms 150...
Playing with instruments is important when we worship the Lord.
LOL I would kindly disagree. most worship songs now have 7 lines and 11 words. All repetition.
If you turned off the music and the church can't worship then there is something wrong with that.
Playing on musical instruments is an integral part of how we worship the Lord. Again, Psalms 150.
There is nothing wrong with helping those out who are less mature.
To be honest, I think of the church as my family, and I support my family. I think 10% is a reasonable standard and I can give joyfully as unto the Lord.
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There is nothing wrong with repeating the words when singing unto the Lord....as long as it doesn't become empty.
I have found in my own life that when singing these repetitive songs, the Holy Spirit comes down and brings meaning to them after you have sung them a few times.
VictoryinJesus
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still Hebrews 7:8 stands out. Especially the “of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.” Revelation 1:18.
Hebrews 7:8 Lexicon: In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.
‘and here (dying men) men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.’
“he receives them” John 14:3-6 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
“Of His own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
That is only one example of what you are referring to.
I consider that there are other repetitive songs that are very edifying...
Such as "Come and take control (repeat ad infinitum)"
The younger generations do not only pay attention to the words in songs so as to formulate doctrine. You can find that in any sermon.
But the younger generations need to express their worship of the Lord in such things as dance.
As such, singing songs that contain doctrine and which emphasize teaching doctrine are not fitting. Again, you can find doctrinal teaching in any sermon; and I would say that that is even the more fitting place for it.
We are a worship generation; and as such the songs that we sing are formulated as songs of worship to the Lord and are not intended to be sermons in and of themselves.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I find it hilarious and revealing when a pastor teaches the New Covenant EXCEPT for Old Covenant tithing. If a church does not feed and clothe the poor, they are not a real church.
I'm not against certain instruments in the worship service - but in no way should it be a rock band setting. I'm part of the younger generation (mid 20s) and to be honest it's scary to see the direction the church is / has been heading to with its seeker friendly methods. I do not believe that worship leaders should be paid - it is not a job.
Agreed!
Does this really work? I have never been a part of a church big enough have that many elders or formal ministers so I cannot speak from even observing such things. There were problems in small churches, but not quite the same.
In small churches of my experience the pastor often or usually worked at a full-time secular job to earn a living for self and family. I would hope that every minister holding a formal position would do the same [decline compensation] rather than expecting full support from the congregation. Is that too idealistic of an expectation? I wonder if Paul had to make most of his living from tent making or did the people to whom he ministered contribute largely to his support?
The Holy Spirit should do so, but in practice is this the case? I belonged to one assembly where they insisted that people pay a tithe so that the ministry could function. I was too ignorant at the time of the things of God to understand God's will in such things. I could afford it so I simply paid a tithe. Years later my understanding was increased. I continued to make a large contribution because I have become convicted to do so. What people give or don't give depends on their own material situation as well as where they are in their walk with God. I don't believe we should ever insist that people pay a certain amount or percentage, but...it is not up to me any where now... except in my own home. Only me and my wife now!
Yes I probably understand the historical situations better than some of the current situations today.
I was a part of a small assembly for several years, but now I am into my second year without such a connection any more. My experience and what I would expect added to my age diminishing physical strength make it very unlikely that I will ever move up beyond being a periodic visitor to such places... My old pastor was forcibly put out of his assembly and the politics disguised as spiritual necessities make me very cautious even when things look good. For him he does not need an income from the church. Do churches often provide for disabled ministers to survive or are they sometimes left to their own means. My pastor's case and what happened to my father in his church make me wonder. I trust God, but what happens when too many people are depending on other resources to live?
You are speaking of how it should and I agree with that. I simply do not trust men. There are undoubtedly some men who are trusting God in churches but there are too many leaning to heavily on other things. Being in that situation without some real faith could be a real problem, couldn't it? Will God always supply the material needs of a faithful man of God? I believe that He will, but some people may have different views as to what is needed.
Worship leaders have to learn their trade just like anyone else. They have a certain skill set and I suppose that you think that people who have those skills should just offer them to the body of Christ for free? Next you will be saying that pastors ought not to be paid for their work that they do.
I know that some worship leaders do in fact do what they do without charge...however I do believe also that they are like the pastor in that they are in positions of official and public ministry in the church. And one ought not to muzzle the ox that treadeth out the grain.
You stop paying music ministers, and all you will have left to do that work will be those who are unskilled as it is at playing musical instruments....which will make for mediocre worship as pertains the the aspect of the musical instruments.
That's the problem. It's a "trade," not a calling!"
Worship was never about its professionalism or entertainment value. By hiring "professionals," you discourage those that have been given gifts to use that God have given them for the Body.
In many churches, everyone is a paid hired "professional" and the only jobs they leave for people is usher/door greeter or working the nursery!
I have been far more blessed by a song sung from a flawed Believer that loves God and has yet an undeveloped gift of music than any professional I have ever heard!
Professional "Music Ministers" are pretty "mediocre" in my mind.
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Considering 1 Corinthians 9:1-18, I consider that those who preach the gospel ought to make their living from the work of preaching the gospel.
Yes, it is not something that we should insist upon as those who might benefit from it. However, it is also true that the promise, that God would pour out a blessing so large that you would be unable to receive it all, it is so great; has a condition to it that you bring the whole tithe into the storehouse. And yes, @bbyrd009, there needs to be a storehouse; and if a church is not making the tithe a contribution to that storehouse, something is wrong. However, the pastor's salary is something that is to be handled as a percentage of the tithe. Because it is a sin to muzzle the ox that treadeth out the grain.
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