What Do You Think About Religion?

[RichardBurger]

What do you think about religion?

In the dictionary the word “religion” is defined as what man does for the God they think exists.

However, true Christianity is about what God has done for mankind. There is nothing in the dictionary that says “religion” defines what God has done for mankind.

Therefore is true Christianity a religion?????

 

[pastorlesofm]

What do you think about religion?

In the dictionary the word “religion” is defined as what man does for the God they think exists.

However, true Christianity is about what God has done for mankind. There is nothing in the dictionary that says “religion” defines what God has done for mankind.

Therefore is true Christianity a religion?????

Religion is man's way to God (Tower of Babel). Personal Relationship through the Finished Work on the Cross is God's Way to man through Jesus Christ.

 

[jiggyfly]

The English word religion comes from the Latin word religio and it means to bind again or obligate. Christ came and set us free, "whoever the Son sets free is really free". So just by the meaning of the Latin word that religion was derived from it is easy to see the conflict with what God has done and is doing. Religion and religious people misrepresent God and His plan of restitution and reconciliation.

Religion is a poor carnal imitation of what HolySpirit is doing in the body of Christ and it can hinder us from experiencing the spiritual reality of being "free" from sin. Most religions continually remind us of our sin and the punishment, resulting in fear and in most cases you will find fear is the motivator even within the Christian religion.

 

[brionne]

What do you think about religion?

In the dictionary the word “religion” is defined as what man does for the God they think exists.

However, true Christianity is about what God has done for mankind. There is nothing in the dictionary that says “religion” defines what God has done for mankind.

Therefore is true Christianity a religion?????

christianity isnt only about what God has done for mankind....its also about what God requires of mankind

Religion has always been a two way street. The worshipers must adhere to their God's/god's requirements and in return their God/god would be their protector and provider.

Christianity is no different because, in order to benefit from Christianity, we must adhere to and comply with Gods requirements.

 

[mjrhealth]

True christainity is not a religion, it is a faith. The only requirement God hads for us is to LOVE, something man finds impossible to do, but in Love we see God, in Love we can do His wil, in LOve we fulfill all our needs, in LOve we see Hope. All religion, is man made, it all brings man into bondage, no matter what you call it.

In His LOve

 

[RichardBurger]

christianity isnt only about what God has done for mankind....its also about what God requires of mankind

Religion has always been a two way street. The worshipers must adhere to their God's/god's requirements and in return their God/god would be their protector and provider.

Christianity is no different because, in order to benefit from Christianity, we must adhere to and comply with Gods requirements.

Can you define what you think God REQUIRES under grace? Can you define what God REQUIRES without going back under the Law of Moses? --- Remember that the law of Moses says to love your neighbor as yourself .

 

[brionne]

Can you define what you think God REQUIRES under grace? Can you define what God REQUIRES without going back under the Law of Moses? --- Remember that the law of Moses says to love your neighbor as yourself .

Absolutely, he requires that we walk in the footsteps of his Son Jesus Christ.

those footsteps entail all that Jesus taught, the way he lived his life, the attitudes that he displayed and his submission to God.

 

[RichardBurger]

Absolutely, he requires that we walk in the footsteps of his Son Jesus Christ.

those footsteps entail all that Jesus taught, the way he lived his life, the attitudes that he displayed and his submission to God.

Jesus had faith, trust, confidence in His Father. That kind of faith, trust, confidence is what we are to walk in.

Jesus was sent to the Jews, not the Gentiles. What He said was to the Jews, not the Gentiles.

Since you think His message was for you then you MUST keep the Law of Moses, all of it. For He said,

Matthew 23:1-3
Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
NKJV

Perhaps you need to go to the nearest Jewish synagogue since you want to be under the Law of Moses.

 

[brionne]

Jesus had faith, trust, confidence in His Father. That kind of faith, trust, confidence is what we are to walk in.

Jesus was sent to the Jews, not the Gentiles. What He said was to the Jews, not the Gentiles.

Since you think His message was for you then you MUST keep the Law of Moses, all of it. For He said,

Matthew 23:1-3
Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
NKJV

Perhaps you need to go to the nearest Jewish synagogue since you want to be under the Law of Moses.

Jesus was still living, and fulfilling, the mosaic law during the time when he was alive. The Messiah was prophesied to fulfill the law in its entirety therefore he lived by means of the law at that time.

However, after his death, the mosaic law became void for God had dismantled it and made his Son the means for approach to God.

Jesus spoke about this on the night before his death...he said 'he is giving them a new commandment' and he also said he is making a 'new covenant' Luke 22:29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
That was in harmony with the prophecy of Jeremiah that God will give the nation a new covenant unlike the mosaic law covenant. Jeremiah 31:“...and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke..."


this is why the apostle Paul could speak of the Mosaic law as being finished and a new covenant put in place thru Christ as its mediator

Hebrews 8:6 But now [Jesus] has obtained a more excellent public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second; 8 for he does find fault with the people when he says: “‘Look! There are days coming,’ says Jehovah, ‘and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their forefathers in [the] day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant, so that I stopped caring for them,’ says Jehovah.”
10 “‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people


It was necessary for Christ to live by the mosaic law code when he was alive in order to fulfill it. He fulfilled it by living perfectly by it...no other human could do that which is why a new covenant was needed... the new covenant would be based on faith and not on obedience to a set of prescribed laws. So christians are certainly not required to keep following the mosaic law...they are required to put faith in the new covenant and live the life that Jesus lived... a life of love and devotion to God and to ones fellow man.

 

[RichardBurger]

Jesus was still living, and fulfilling, the mosaic law during the time when he was alive. The Messiah was prophesied to fulfill the law in its entirety therefore he lived by means of the law at that time.

However, after his death, the mosaic law became void for God had dismantled it and made his Son the means for approach to God.

Jesus spoke about this on the night before his death...he said 'he is giving them a new commandment' and he also said he is making a 'new covenant' Luke 22:29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
That was in harmony with the prophecy of Jeremiah that God will give the nation a new covenant unlike the mosaic law covenant. Jeremiah 31:“...and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke..."


this is why the apostle Paul could speak of the Mosaic law as being finished and a new covenant put in place thru Christ as its mediator

Hebrews 8:6 But now [Jesus] has obtained a more excellent public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second; 8 for he does find fault with the people when he says: “‘Look! There are days coming,’ says Jehovah, ‘and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their forefathers in [the] day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant, so that I stopped caring for them,’ says Jehovah.”
10 “‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people


It was necessary for Christ to live by the mosaic law code when he was alive in order to fulfill it. He fulfilled it by living perfectly by it...no other human could do that which is why a new covenant was needed... the new covenant would be based on faith and not on obedience to a set of prescribed laws. So christians are certainly not required to keep following the mosaic law...they are required to put faith in the new covenant and live the life that Jesus lived... a life of love and devotion to God and to ones fellow man.

Are you forgetting that you said, and I quote "Absolutely, he requires that we walk in the footsteps of his Son Jesus Christ.

those footsteps entail all that Jesus taught, the way he lived his life, the attitudes that he displayed and his submission to God."

Now you are saying we don't have to. Please make up your mind.

But it is good that you now see that there are two gospels spoken of in the N.T., law and grace.

 

[brionne]

Are you forgetting that you said, and I quote "Absolutely, he requires that we walk in the footsteps of his Son Jesus Christ.

those footsteps entail all that Jesus taught, the way he lived his life, the attitudes that he displayed and his submission to God."

Now you are saying we don't have to. Please make up your mind.

But it is good that you now see that there are two gospels spoken of in the N.T., law and grace.

all that Jesus taught includes his instructions about the new covenant and its requirements. Thru the apostles, christians were clearly told that the mosaic law was not a requirement any longer...that Christ had nailed it to the torture stake.

The law of the Christ was a new commandment based on love...not the mosaic law.

And if you look closely at Jesus teachings it becomes apparent that it is the principles behind the laws which Jesus was teaching...not the laws themselves. Nor did he approve of the oral laws which were being taught by the religious leaders for he contradicted them many times.
One example is that he made divorce the sin adultery whereas the mosaic law did not. Another is in his words about making oaths - “Again you heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not swear without performing’ . . . However, I say to you: Do not swear at all.”
Another example is “You heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ However, I say to you: Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.”
Again here is another example of Jesus contradiction of the oral laws of the religious leaders: “You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you.”
And his words about adultery were different too: “You heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
Murder was spoken of as: “You heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.’ However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice.”

He took the law one step further. He wasnt necessarily changing it but he was deepening and widening its force by showing the spirit behind it. Continued ill will became as serious as murder. Merely thinking lustful thoughts became as adultery. Divorcing without legal reason became tantamount to adultery. A higher law of truth shows repetitious oaths to be unnecessary. A higher law of mildness sets aside retaliation.

He replaced the laws with a higher law based on the principles of the mosaic laws.

 

[RichardBurger]

all that Jesus taught includes his instructions about the new covenant and its requirements. Thru the apostles, christians were clearly told that the mosaic law was not a requirement any longer...that Christ had nailed it to the torture stake.

The law of the Christ was a new commandment based on love...not the mosaic law.

And if you look closely at Jesus teachings it becomes apparent that it is the principles behind the laws which Jesus was teaching...not the laws themselves. Nor did he approve of the oral laws which were being taught by the religious leaders for he contradicted them many times.
One example is that he made divorce the sin adultery whereas the mosaic law did not. Another is in his words about making oaths - “Again you heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not swear without performing’ . . . However, I say to you: Do not swear at all.”
Another example is “You heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ However, I say to you: Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.”
Again here is another example of Jesus contradiction of the oral laws of the religious leaders: “You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you.”
And his words about adultery were different too: “You heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
Murder was spoken of as: “You heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.’ However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice.”

He took the law one step further. He wasnt necessarily changing it but he was deepening and widening its force by showing the spirit behind it. Continued ill will became as serious as murder. Merely thinking lustful thoughts became as adultery. Divorcing without legal reason became tantamount to adultery. A higher law of truth shows repetitious oaths to be unnecessary. A higher law of mildness sets aside retaliation.

He replaced the laws with a higher law based on the principles of the mosaic laws.

So instead of grace we are back under the Law. I fear that you have not fully understood that you are living in a sinful body made of flesh and that it sins constantly. The fact that it sins constantly is the reason that God made a plan of salvation that does not depend on the flesh being able to keep God's laws. It depends solely on a person believing in the work of Jesus on the cross.

No matter how much you think you can love others it is a fact that you can't love others ALL THE TIME. Your only fooling yourself if you think you can. And since you can't why are you on this forum insisting that others do what you can't?

 

[Grat]

I loved the way Bonheoffer (German theologian/pastor killed under Hitler’s reign) put it.
We are required to perform a dead work of accepting Christ as our Lord. The act itself is of no benefit to us in itself, but it positions us where God’s mercy can then take over (or something like that).

Grat

 

[RichardBurger]

It is a fact that no one can COMMAND someone else to love someone. Love doesn't work that way. If you say you are loving others to keep a commandment then you are not really loving them, you are doing something you think will give you a reward and that is not love for others it is self-love.

 

[brionne]

So instead of grace we are back under the Law. I fear that you have not fully understood that you are living in a sinful body made of flesh and that it sins constantly. The fact that it sins constantly is the reason that God made a plan of salvation that does not depend on the flesh being able to keep God's laws. It depends solely on a person believing in the work of Jesus on the cross.

No matter how much you think you can love others it is a fact that you can't love others ALL THE TIME. Your only fooling yourself if you think you can. And since you can't why are you on this forum insisting that others do what you can't?

No, i dont agree that Gods plan of salvation relies solely on believing in Jesus. Christians must prove that they are children of God by living the sort of life which reflects (in a limited way of course) that we desire to abide in his love. To abide in his love means we must live in such a way that pleases him. Yes, faith in his son is pleasing to him and thru that faith we can gain forgiveness of our sins, but it does not give us the unlimited freedom to pursue whatever course of life we want. We still need to abide by Gods moral standards and we still need to display his qualities in our own personalities.

Adam was originally made in the image of God which means he could reflect the glory of God...he could be like his heavenly father by displaying the qualities of God in himself. But we can only do that to a small degree due to sin, but that doesnt mean that we cannot be like God in our attitudes and actions.

Now, Im not sure what sort of love you are referring to, but there are different types of love mentioned in the NT. When I speak of love I am speaking of the sort of love that is based on priniciple. In the NT it is 'Agape' love....its not the warm personal attachment or deep affection you might show towards a friend a parent or a child but its the sort of love that can be shown to a stranger.
Jesus spoke of this sort of love when he gave the parable of the 'Good Samaritan'. Can we love strangers? Yes, we can by showing them compassion and treating them with kindness. When we can extend ourselves to be able to show this sort of love, then we are acting in harmony with God and how he loves.

 

[RichardBurger]

No, i dont agree that Gods plan of salvation relies solely on believing in Jesus. Christians must prove that they are children of God by living the sort of life which reflects (in a limited way of course) that we desire to abide in his love. To abide in his love means we must live in such a way that pleases him. Yes, faith in his son is pleasing to him and thru that faith we can gain forgiveness of our sins, but it does not give us the unlimited freedom to pursue whatever course of life we want. We still need to abide by Gods moral standards and we still need to display his qualities in our own personalities.

Adam was originally made in the image of God which means he could reflect the glory of God...he could be like his heavenly father by displaying the qualities of God in himself. But we can only do that to a small degree due to sin, but that doesnt mean that we cannot be like God in our attitudes and actions.

Now, Im not sure what sort of love you are referring to, but there are different types of love mentioned in the NT. When I speak of love I am speaking of the sort of love that is based on priniciple. In the NT it is 'Agape' love....its not the warm personal attachment or deep affection you might show towards a friend a parent or a child but its the sort of love that can be shown to a stranger.
Jesus spoke of this sort of love when he gave the parable of the 'Good Samaritan'. Can we love strangers? Yes, we can by showing them compassion and treating them with kindness. When we can extend ourselves to be able to show this sort of love, then we are acting in harmony with God and how he loves.

I get your message. You think we have to pay for God's grace by what we do. Either that or you think you can become like God. That was Satans words to Eve.

 

[brionne]

I get your message. You think we have to pay for God's grace by what we do. Either that or you think you can become like God. That was Satans words to Eve.

no, satan was promoting independence...that is how he tempted eve. They could become like God by making their own decisions.

Doing good and living a godly life is not 'paying' for salvation. To please God we need to act in the way God acts and think the way he thinks about things.
Does he enjoy violence? No. Nor should we
Does he think its ok to be cruel to animals? No. nor should we.
Does he think sexual immorality is ok? No, nor should we.
Does he want us to show kindness and love and patience and forgiveness to others? Yes, and so we should.

To think like God is to be like God. This way we become united with God just as Jesus was in unity with God.

 

[RichardBurger]

no, satan was promoting independence...that is how he tempted eve. They could become like God by making their own decisions.

Doing good and living a godly life is not 'paying' for salvation. To please God we need to act in the way God acts and think the way he thinks about things.
Does he enjoy violence? No. Nor should we
Does he think its ok to be cruel to animals? No. nor should we.
Does he think sexual immorality is ok? No, nor should we.
Does he want us to show kindness and love and patience and forgiveness to others? Yes, and so we should.

To think like God is to be like God. This way we become united with God just as Jesus was in unity with God.

It would be nice if you could live by the rules you've set up. But you can't. If a person could really live by them Jesus' death on the cross was not necessary. But the truth is that mankind CAN NOT live without sin.

You sin just like the rest of us and your continual words of rules and laws that you try and lay on others does not make you sinless in the eyes of God. Only the work of His Son does that.

What I said about Eve is the truth. But I see you want to twist it.

To please God we need to honor the work of His Son on the cross. To try and establish your own righteousness is an afront to God. Remember the one who came to the wedding who was thrown out because he refused to wear the robes given to him and instead wished to wear his own?

 

[brionne]

It would be nice if you could live by the rules you've set up. But you can't. If a person could really live by them Jesus' death on the cross was not necessary. But the truth is that mankind CAN NOT live without sin.

You sin just like the rest of us and your continual words of rules and laws that you try and lay on others does not make you sinless in the eyes of God. Only the work of His Son does that.

What I said about Eve is the truth. But I see you want to twist it.

To please God we need to honor the work of His Son on the cross. To try and establish your own righteousness is an afront to God. Remember the one who came to the wedding who was thrown out because he refused to wear the robes given to him and instead wished to wear his own?

its not impossible for us to be nice. Its not impossible for us to show love. Its not impossible for us to make decisions in accord with what we know to be right and wrong according to Gods standards.

Of course we are still sinners and I dont think i ever implied that we were not.....but being a sinner does not mean its impossible to please God.

 

[RichardBurger]

its not impossible for us to be nice. Its not impossible for us to show love. Its not impossible for us to make decisions in accord with what we know to be right and wrong according to Gods standards.

Of course we are still sinners and I dont think i ever implied that we were not.....but being a sinner does not mean its impossible to please God.

So in your opinion we please God by being nice. In my opinion we please God when we glorify His Son's work on the cross. We ARE NOT to testify about our non-existant sinlessness. We are to testify that Jesus is the Son of God and we are saved by His work on the cross, not ours.

I bet you think you are nice ALL THE TIME. I bet the Pharisees thought they were wonderful as they plotted murder.