What does being born again mean?

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Bible Highlighter

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bible highlighter



Interesting that the word washing is the word for baptism. I find your comment interesting "Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of reformation (Which means that Spirit baptism is now the one and only true baptism for today)."

Do you believe water baptism is for today ? Even as a symbol ?

I believe a Christian can be water baptized but they would have to believe with all their heart by partaking in it. But I don't believe it is correct if they believe that baptism is a necessary requirement to become initially saved or as a part of our salvation (i.e. eternal life). For example: Christians can be circumcised but they should never do so for the purpose of salvation (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

But I believe water baptism is simply not necessary.
Only a Christian who is 100% convinced that Spirit baptism is the one and only baptism in Ephesians 4:5 should not be water baptized. However, it is only the Spirit who can reveal such a truth to a person (if they are really a truth seeker). Most are sucked in by the traditions of their church or they have believed “Water Baptismal Salvation” for so long whereby they cannot see the forest from the trees.

#1. Only Spirit baptism exists and water baptism has ended with the time of the reformation (Which could either be when Paul reformed things with His teachings from Jesus Christ or when the Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD).

#2. During the early church: Water baptism was a part of the call back to repentance for the unsaved Jew who denied their Savior. Repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and the fruits of repentance would be forsaking one's sins as a part of their repentance. Water baptism was a part of the unsaved Jews call back to repentance. So this was not Initial Salvation, but a call back. Water is not what saved but because it was tied with seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus (It then became salvific for the Jew). This call back to repent was not for the Gentiles, though. However, Gentiles were water baptized but it was done out of Jewish tradition from John the baptist and a misunderstanding by the disciples involving the words of their Lord Jesus involving the topic of baptism.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Interesting that the word washing is the word for baptism. I find your comment interesting "Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of reformation (Which means that Spirit baptism is now the one and only true baptism for today)."

Do you believe water baptism is for today ? Even as a symbol ?

I believe water baptism was temporary and it can be done by believers today (as long as they do not do so as part of accessing faith or salvation, etcetera). In the early church: Water baptism was a symbol of Christ's death (Romans 6:3, Romans 6:5). Jesus even referred to His death upon the cross as a baptism (Luke 12:50). Colossians 2:12 refers to this baptism (i.e. the baptism of Christ dying upon the cross and how we are buried and dead with Him). The Spirit crucifies our old man when we become born again. We are new creations in Christ. Walking in newness of life (Sanctification by the Spirit to live a holy life is a parallel or picture (symbol) of the resurrection - See: Romans 6:4-5). So I see baptism as a symbol of Christ's death according to Scripture. Christians today say that baptism is also a symbol of the resurrection but I just don't see that as biblical.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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In 1992: I was born again and accepted Jesus as my Savior and was changed spiritually on a radical level. I was water baptized in April of 2013. But I did not partake of water baptism in order to be saved or to maintain my salvation. I came to be convinced of Spirit baptism as the one only baptism in Ephesians 4:5 sometime in 2019.
 
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heartwashed

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The posts have been nearly overwhelming so I will address only a few points.

Water Baptism for salvation is false because of


Actually, 1 Peter 3:20-21 substantiates that water baptism has the power to save a person.

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Some people, instead of taking the holy scriptures at face value, think that they are wise to add the "leaven" of man's teaching concerning specific Bible verses; when that teaching waters down the message so that you no longer have the message that is given by the verse in question. This, I believe, is what you have done here.

The water of the word.

literal water.

One should not be water baptized until after they are born again,

Being baptized in Jesus' Name will procure remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost for those who have not yet been born again; provided that the baptism is a confession of Jesus Christ before men (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8) it will save the person. Jesus will confess that person before the Father and before His holy angels as the result of the baptism.

Friend thats heresy, the blood of Christ washes away our sins Rev 1:5

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

What you advocate goes against the Blood of Christ.

The blood is in the water.

Consider that the Greek word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even".

And therefore 1 John 5:6-8 can be rendered thus.

1Jo 5:6, This is he that came by water <even> blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water <even> blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8, And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, <even> the water, <even> the blood: and these three agree in one.
 

heartwashed

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But you are not explaining John 1:12 in how it works in your belief in baptism for salvation. No water baptism for salvation is mentioned in John 1:12. This verse would not be telling the truth if what you believe is true.
You only receive the right or power to become a child of God when you receive Jesus, believing in His name; while you may actually become a child of God when you are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.
 

farouk

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The posts have been nearly overwhelming so I will address only a few points.





Actually, 1 Peter 3:20-21 substantiates that water baptism has the power to save a person.

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Some people, instead of taking the holy scriptures at face value, think that they are wise to add the "leaven" of man's teaching concerning specific Bible verses; when that teaching waters down the message so that you no longer have the message that is given by the verse in question. This, I believe, is what you have done here.



literal water.



Being baptized in Jesus' Name will procure remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost for those who have not yet been born again; provided that the baptism is a confession of Jesus Christ before men (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8) it will save the person. Jesus will confess that person before the Father and before His holy angels as the result of the baptism.



The blood is in the water.

Consider that the Greek word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even".

And therefore 1 John 5:6-8 can be rendered thus.

1Jo 5:6, This is he that came by water <even> blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water <even> blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8, And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, <even> the water, <even> the blood: and these three agree in one.
Baptism is a symbol; not a means to salvation.

In Acts 2.41, those who gladly received his word were baptized. They were not baptized in order to become believers; they were baptized because they were believers.

Baptismal regeneration is utterly false and a dangerous idea.
 

heartwashed

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Reasons why water baptism is no longer necessary today.

#1. Water baptism was originally for the Jews and not Gentiles. Water baptism was given up by Paul (1 Corinthians 1:17), and we don’t see any repeat instructions of Paul saying similar words in Acts 2:38 to other Gentile Christians (like Timothy, or Luke, or a Gentile church, etcetera).

So, Jews and Gentiles are saved differently?

Because clearly, water baptism in Jesus' Name saved those who became recipients of it...they received remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

#2. Matthew 28:19 says we are to baptize all nations. In other words, if one wants to obey the great commission command, logically, he should also do the baptizing and not merely being baptized. I’m sure millions of Christians are not obeying that command, because while they were perhaps have been baptized, they do not obey the command, which is “to baptize.”

That seems irrelevant to me.

#3. Paul said he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17), and Paul told us to follow his example (1 Corinthians 11:1).

You are taking that out of context.

Clearly, Paul's disciples baptized many people in Corinth (Acts of the Apostles 18:8) under Paul's authority.

#4. Paul said he thanks God that he did not baptize the majority of the Corinthian believers (1 Corinthians 1:14). If baptism was for salvation, he would have never said this. Obviously Paul said this because folks back then were taking baptism to mean something that it was not.

The reason why Paul said this was because of the divisions in the church where some said, "I am of Paul", others, "I am of Apollos" and others, "I am of Christ."

He was glad that he didn't personally baptize many because if he had, some might have said, "I was baptized in the name of Paul."

It had nothing to do with the validity of baptism as an ordinance.

Because clearly, many in Corinth were baptized (Acts of the Apostles 18:8) and Paul was certainly not against that.

#5. Hebrews 9:10 says, “Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” The word “washings” is the Greek word “baptismos” (βαπτισμός) (Check out here for the Strong’s definition). In other words, Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of reformation (Which means that Spirit baptism is now the one and only true baptism for today).

No; because baptism as an ordinance is not the same as "washings".

Baptism as an ordinance is "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh" (1 Peter 3:21), therefore not a "washing".

#6. 1 Corinthians 12:13 says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” So it is by the Spirit that we are baptized into the body of Christ and not by a water ritual.

I would contend that there is one baptism and if Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism then water baptism is not baptism.

Nevertheless water baptism is valid because Jesus said, "John truly baptized in water..." (Acts 1:5).

Therefore water baptism is included in the one baptism spoken of in Ephesians 4:5.

Baptism is triune in nature.

It is one baptism in:

1) water

2) the Spirit

3) fire.

#7. Verses on Initial Salvation by God’s grace through faith like Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:2-5, Titus 3:5, John 1:12, Luke 18:9-14, and Jesus forgiving the sins of others all show that water baptism was not necessary for salvation.

Nevertheless the gift of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And if you are not called, you have not been predestined and will not be justified or glorified.

#8. If baptism is for salvation, then why was Jesus baptized?

To set an example for us so that we would follow Him.

Consider 1 John 2:6. If we do not follow His example, we cannot say that we are abiding in Him.

#9. 1 Peter 3:21 makes it clear that baptism does not save us in the putting away of the filth of the flesh (sin), but it only saves us in answering in having an already clean or good conscience. For even the parallel made in 1 Peter 3:20 shows that the flood waters did not actually literally save Noah and his family. It was the Ark (Jesus) that saved them.

1 Peter 3:20 shows that the baptism in question is baptism in water.

1 Peter 3:21 shows that "even baptism doth also now save us".

It is not the removal of the filth of the flesh; but it does wash away sins (Acts 22:16).

#10. Ephesians 1:13 says,
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” This lets us know that by hearing the gospel, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. This is being immersed into the Spirit for the first time sort of like with Cornelius and his household. In fact, the gospel that we receive that saves us initially (as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) mentions nothing about water baptism.

Consider that in the beginnings of the church of Ephesus, twelve men were baptized in the name of Jesus and received the Holy Ghost after Paul laid hands on them.

So clearly, faith was mixed with baptism in Ephesus, even as it is written in Colossians 2:12.
 
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heartwashed

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Baptism is a symbol; not a means to salvation.

In Acts 2.41, those who gladly received his word were baptized. They were not baptized in order to become believers; they were baptized because they were believers.

Baptismal regeneration is utterly false and a dangerous idea.

"dangerous to the devil"...

It seems to me that baptismal (by sprinkling) regeneration is taught in Ezekiel 36:25-27.
 

heartwashed

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Physical water does not bring about the new birth.

I believe that fulfilling the conditions of the conditional promise found in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39 will bring about the fulfilling of the promise.

Iow, being water-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins will bring about remission of sins and the receiving of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Do not these two latter things mentioned amount to being born again?

Jhn 3:5, Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 

farouk

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I believe that fulfilling the conditions of the conditional promise found in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39 will bring about the fulfilling of the promise.

Iow, being water-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins will bring about remission of sins and the receiving of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Do not these two latter things mentioned amount to being born again?

Jhn 3:5, Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
For the remission of sins = on account of the remission of sins.

It's not the water that produces the remission.

This would replace faith in the work of Christ on the Cross with the tub of water instead.
 

heartwashed

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For the remission of sins = on account of the remission of sins.

It's not the water that produces the remission.

This would replace faith in the work of Christ on the Cross with the tub of water instead.

Not necessarily.

If water baptism is understood to be an identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, faith in Christ would be an integral part of the work of the Lord that is accomplished through baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
 

farouk

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Not necessarily.

If water baptism is understood to be an identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, faith in Christ would be an integral part of the work of the Lord that is accomplished through baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Ephesians 2.8 and Hebrews 11 lay huge emphasis on faith and not once do those passage mention baptism, least of all as the supposed essential means of bringing someone to true, saving faith.

Baptismal regeneration is a myth.
 

heartwashed

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It seems to me that Acts of the Apostles 2:39 tells us that there is a conditional promise (of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost) given to as many as the Lord our God shall call. The condition being repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38).

Water baptism, not as a work; but rather as a point of contact for faith.
 

heartwashed

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Also, Ezekiel 36:25-27 seems to me to be saying that we will receive a new heart and a new spirit as the result of having clean water sprinkled on us.

Does that not amount to being born again through the application of water (by faith)?
 

brightfame52

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BH

I believe a Christian can be water baptized but they would have to believe with all their heart by partaking in it.

Sorta like what Phillip told the Ethiopian Acts 8:36-39

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

But I don't believe it is correct if they believe that baptism is a necessary requirement to become initially saved or as a part of our salvation (i.e. eternal life). For example: Christians can be circumcised but they should never do so for the purpose of salvation (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

Im with you on that.

But I believe water baptism is simply not necessary.

Agreed, especially now that religionists have deified it ! I even know of some Sovereign Gracers, Baptist, who treat you like an unbeliever if you havent been water baptized. Besides, Christ was water baptized and that as probably an representative Act as all His Law Keeping was.

Only a Christian who is 100% convinced that Spirit baptism is the one and only baptism in Ephesians 4:5 should not be water baptized. However, it is only the Spirit who can reveal such a truth to a person (if they are really a truth seeker). Most are sucked in by the traditions of their church or they have believed “Water Baptismal Salvation” for so long whereby they cannot see the forest from the trees.

#1. Only Spirit baptism exists and water baptism has ended with the time of the reformation (Which could either be when Paul reformed things with His teachings from Jesus Christ or when the Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD).

#2. During the early church: Water baptism was a part of the call back to repentance for the unsaved Jew who denied their Savior. Repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and the fruits of repentance would be forsaking one's sins as a part of their repentance. Water baptism was a part of the unsaved Jews call back to repentance. So this was not Initial Salvation, but a call back. Water is not what saved but because it was tied with seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus (It then became salvific for the Jew). This call back to repent was not for the Gentiles, though. However, Gentiles were water baptized but it was done out of Jewish tradition from John the baptist and a misunderstanding by the disciples involving the words of their Lord Jesus involving the topic of baptism.

Interesting.
 

brightfame52

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The posts have been nearly overwhelming so I will address only a few points.





Actually, 1 Peter 3:20-21 substantiates that water baptism has the power to save a person.

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Some people, instead of taking the holy scriptures at face value, think that they are wise to add the "leaven" of man's teaching concerning specific Bible verses; when that teaching waters down the message so that you no longer have the message that is given by the verse in question. This, I believe, is what you have done here.



literal water.



Being baptized in Jesus' Name will procure remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost for those who have not yet been born again; provided that the baptism is a confession of Jesus Christ before men (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8) it will save the person. Jesus will confess that person before the Father and before His holy angels as the result of the baptism.



The blood is in the water.

Consider that the Greek word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even".

And therefore 1 John 5:6-8 can be rendered thus.

1Jo 5:6, This is he that came by water <even> blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water <even> blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8, And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, <even> the water, <even> the blood: and these three agree in one.
Only God can deliver you from this delusion friend, may He be pleased to do so. I once taught very zealously that one had to be water baptized in Jesus name in water according to Acts 2:38 to get saved, but God mercifully gave me repentance to acknowledging the Truth.