What does born again mean?

[FollowHim]

There is a problem here, with this line of thinking

God does not hire us

he adopts us as his children we were orphans he paid the price of adoption and Adopted us as children.

This is an interesting line of thought. As Paul says we are sons, except he uses two statements

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Gal 6:7-9

We will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Gal 5:2

Paul hopes he is speaking to brothers and sisters in Christ who have been touched by God and will be proven true.
He warns the consequences of sowing to the flesh, and trying to justify oneself by the law, being lost.

Paul appears to be saying, you elect, you will listen to me, but if you do not listen then you are lost.
As he states he is confused how those chosen by God could so easily go astray.

So Paul is not saying where they stand or if the choice changes the reality, but rather one way leads to life and the other to destruction.
I think this summarises our experience with others, how some seem so solid and fall by the wayside, while others hold on and walk on. It is almost impossible to tell who is who, and what will fell different folk. I like Pauls appeal, condemning no one, but calling all to Christ.
So I just say, amen. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Those born of the Spirit are not born of mans will, but of Gods will. There is a deep reality here which is difficult to fathom.
Paul emphasises no matter how much people teach or encourage it is God who makes us grow.

Again no matter how much we say our choice keeps us in Christ, it is God who does this.

Why do some people turn right and others turn left? Is it their choice or does everything that comes before determine what flows later.
Neurologists realise we think because of certain flow of ideas and impulses. Their question is are we actually choosing or is this just an apparent flow of free will. And the truth is we do not know.

The more one sees the complexity of life and how things can corrupt and destroy our hearts, the more we can say, but by the grace of God.
Today I am alive by the grace of God, older than my father, and my fathers father. And what value can I place on this blessing? Should I be greedy and say I deserve this, or just bow in humbleness and praise that He gives me so much I just want to praise His name, Amen.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

One might read it like this...
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized(G907-through water) into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Which again, the "water" component of the Born Again experience.

And they would be in error,

baptizo is a transliteration of a Greek word not a translation, It means to immerse into to plung into, to place into.

If the word was properly interpreted, it would say we were placed into Christ, just like in another passage where it said the children of Israel were baptized (placed into) moses. But not just into Christ, but his death also. No water is involved.

That does not mean we should dismiss it either. Consider God's plan for building the ark was SPECIFIC and ESSENTIAL, and God's plan for building the tabernacle in the wilderness was SPECIFIC and ESSENTIAL. Likewise, God's plan of salvation is SPECIFIC and ESSENTIAL! We must understand AND comply with God's SPECIFIC and ESSENTIAL plan for water baptism in order to be accepted by Him! A popular saying among denominationalists today is, "Baptism is an outward sign of an inward work." If the Bible says that baptism is an outward sign of an inward work, then baptism is an outward sign of an inward work. Years ago, when I first heard that saying I searched it out and just couldn't find any place that said anything baptism being a "sign" of anything to anyone.

Thank you,
God bless!

what we know is the ark and tabernacle were symbols of the real

When my pastor Baptized me in water I got wet, and was a testimony to those who watched

When God baptize me into Christ, I, who once was dead in my Sin, was made alive (born again) in Christ

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is an interesting line of thought. As Paul says we are sons, except he uses two statements

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Gal 6:7-9

We will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Gal 5:2

Paul hopes he is speaking to brothers and sisters in Christ who have been touched by God and will be proven true.
He warns the consequences of sowing to the flesh, and trying to justify oneself by the law, being lost.

Paul appears to be saying, you elect, you will listen to me, but if you do not listen then you are lost.
As he states he is confused how those chosen by God could so easily go astray.

So Paul is not saying where they stand or if the choice changes the reality, but rather one way leads to life and the other to destruction.
I think this summarises our experience with others, how some seem so solid and fall by the wayside, while others hold on and walk on. It is almost impossible to tell who is who, and what will fell different folk. I like Pauls appeal, condemning no one, but calling all to Christ.
So I just say, amen. God bless you

Mark Gods word

if your trying to earn salvation you will reap death, and no matter how many good deeds you do, you will not receive reward.

if you allow God to save you you not only reap life, But reap rewards for what you do.

 

[OzSpen]

Thank you for your input. Here are a few New Testament scriptures other than Mark 16:16...

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

1 Peter 3:20-21 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

Romans 6
3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Thanks again for your input.
Keep up the good work,
God Bless!

user,

You are not listening to me but are pushing your baptismal regeneration agenda.

How do I know you are not taking notice of what I wrote? You stated:

Here are a few New Testament scriptures other than Mark 16:16...

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

In my previous post I refuted your view of John 3:5 with extensive exegesis of the text. Why didn't you respond to the exegesis instead of going off at your tangent?

Oz

 

[FollowHim]

Mark Gods word

if your trying to earn salvation you will reap death, and no matter how many good deeds you do, you will not receive reward.

if you allow God to save you you not only reap life, But reap rewards for what you do.

I think after all this time you might see, what we are in Christ is not our doing.

I cannot choose my spiritual reality or state. If God grants me repentance there is hope. We can humble ourselves and walk Jesus's way, or sow to self indulgence and greed.

Our everyday reality speaks of who we are and who we walk with. If Christ is there, Amen, if not, seek His face and He will answer. God bless you

 

[farouk]

Those born of the Spirit are not born of mans will, but of Gods will. There is a deep reality here which is difficult to fathom.
Paul emphasises no matter how much people teach or encourage it is God who makes us grow.

Again no matter how much we say our choice keeps us in Christ, it is God who does this.

Why do some people turn right and others turn left? Is it their choice or does everything that comes before determine what flows later.
Neurologists realise we think because of certain flow of ideas and impulses. Their question is are we actually choosing or is this just an apparent flow of free will. And the truth is we do not know.

The more one sees the complexity of life and how things can corrupt and destroy our hearts, the more we can say, but by the grace of God.
Today I am alive by the grace of God, older than my father, and my fathers father. And what value can I place on this blessing? Should I be greedy and say I deserve this, or just bow in humbleness and praise that He gives me so much I just want to praise His name, Amen.

@FollowHim Great post; indeed.

 

[Taken]

[QUOTE="user, post: 758923, member: 8321...

5. If the birth of water is actually the natural birth, why did Jesus indicate that the new birth has two components? There may be a parallel between water in the natural birth and the new birth, but the context of John 3 establishes that the birth of water itself is not the natural birth.


God Bless![/QUOTE]

A NEW Birth (born again also called Quickened)

Does have Two Requirements.
* A Natural "live" Birth.
* A Spiritual Birth.

Naturally a "thing" (person in this case) Must Be Born Naturally Alive Before it can Become Dead. <-- that is a Water Birth.
(Taking a bath, shower, swimming, being dunked IN Water are NoT Births of "something ALIVE coming forth out from something alive".)

A Natural Water Birth Can NOT become Born Again, until a Natural ALIVE Water Birth has Occurred, and it Becomes DEAD.

Jesus Offered Salvation of men's souls AND a Birth of a man's natural spirit , to a Spiritual spirit (by Gods POWER and SEED)...to be Given a man (who Believes in God and Christ Jesus)...
"BEFORE" the person's Physical Death.
Which was foretold, would be given Converted men, After Jesus Bodily returned to Heaven, from whence He came.
And that has been occurring for the past 2,000+ years.

Dunking in Water, was John's Baptism, for temporary Forgiveness of Sins...Not Salvation of ones soul or Quickening of their spirit.

Jesus' Blood is His Offering for Permanent Forgiveness of Sin and His Bodily Death was Given For the LIFE of the World That Believe.

A man who has received a Saved soul and Quickened spirit...gave his life willingly (crucified with Christ), and supernaturally lives IN Christ's Risen living Body...
And Why they say they are "IN Christ".

Both a (live) Natural Water Birth, and spirit birth Are required to Become Converted "IN Christ."

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[farouk]

[QUOTE="user, post: 758923, member: 8321...

5. If the birth of water is actually the natural birth, why did Jesus indicate that the new birth has two components? There may be a parallel between water in the natural birth and the new birth, but the context of John 3 establishes that the birth of water itself is not the natural birth.


God Bless!

A NEW Birth (born again also called Quickened)

Does have Two Requirements.
* A Natural "live" Birth.
* A Spiritual Birth.

Naturally a "thing" (person in this case) Must Be Born Naturally Alive Before it can Become Dead. <-- that is a Water Birth.
(Taking a bath, shower, swimming, being dunked IN Water are NoT Births of "something ALIVE coming forth out from something alive".)

A Natural Water Birth Can NOT become Born Again, until a Natural ALIVE Water Birth has Occurred, and it Becomes DEAD.

Jesus Offered Salvation of men's souls AND a Birth of a man's natural spirit , to a Spiritual spirit (by Gods POWER and SEED)...to be Given a man (who Believes in God and Christ Jesus)...
"BEFORE" the person's Physical Death.
Which was foretold, would be given Converted men, After Jesus Bodily returned to Heaven, from whence He came.
And that has been occurring for the past 2,000+ years.

Dunking in Water, was John's Baptism, for temporary Forgiveness of Sins...Not Salvation of ones soul or Quickening of their spirit.

Jesus' Blood is His Offering for Permanent Forgiveness of Sin and His Bodily Death was Given For the LIFE of the World That Believe.

A man who has received a Saved soul and Quickened spirit...gave his life willingly (crucified with Christ), and supernaturally lives IN Christ's Risen living Body...
And Why they say they are "IN Christ".

Both a (live) Natural Water Birth, and spirit birth Are required to Become Converted "IN Christ."

Glory to God,
Taken[/QUOTE]
@Taken Some see the being born or water ref. in John 3 as an allusion to the idea of 'the washing of water by the word', (Ephesians 5.26).

 

[Taken]

What does born again mean?
OP ^

Born Again IS The Birth of a man's "natural" (from a human man's sees) spirit within the man, TO a Spiritual "spirit", By the Power and Seed of God.

Gods POWER is Christ.
Gods SEED is Christ.

A Natural man's "natural spirit" is that man's Natural Truth, in his Heart.

God gives a Converted man...a New Heart, called circumcision of the Heart.

God gives a Converted man...Gods Spirit and SEED, which is Gods WAY of Giving that man; Gods Truth, IN the man's new Heart.

Gods Truth supersedes man's wishy washy ever changing Truths...with His Spirit of Truth.

John 14: 17
John 15:26
John 16:13
1 John 4:6
Ezek 11:19
Rom 2:29

• 
  

 

[user]

Naturally a "thing" (person in this case) Must Be Born Naturally Alive Before it can Become Dead. <-- that is a Water Birth.
(Taking a bath, shower, swimming, being dunked IN Water are NoT Births of "something ALIVE coming forth out from something alive".)

A Natural Water Birth Can NOT become Born Again, until a Natural ALIVE Water Birth has Occurred, and it Becomes DEAD.

Thank you, I appreciate what you are saying.

But I was trying to point out that **IF** (for example) let's say one wished to send their son on a errand to the store and has only two components to this errand...

1. That he be born of a womb
2. Be breathing oxygen

Some things do not need to be said because it is something that everyone has already done. Jesus said to Nicodemus...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(G5204) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples


God's word is saying "water as in rivers" "fountains" "pools"

Thanks again,
God bless!

 

[Taken]

Some see the being born or water ref. in John 3 as an allusion to the idea of 'the washing of water by the word', (Ephesians 5.26).

Sure.
God sees a man's heart/ spirit/ Truth.
Men do not.
Men "see", "acts and results of acts".

Joining "Christ's Spiritual Church", is a Spiritual Act, "unseen" by men, even the Individual joining.

Church Organizations/Denominations, (with pastors/priests/ clerics) require (more than) the Individuals "word" that he has Been Baptized with the Holt Spirit....for the Individual to become a "member" of their Church Organization/Denomination.

^ They "require" water Baptism, with Witnesses.
^ Their "membership" is recorded in That Churches Records.
^ if a member chooses to "change" Churches,
BY Letter, their "membership" can be Transfered to another Church.

Evangelical Baptism moreso Resembles the Apostles of Christ Baptism of the Holy Spirit...
With no regard with a "membership" to a manmade Church, and men becoming a member of Christ's Spiritual Church.

A Revival, A Gathering, a Tv telecast, radio, a lone Individual calling on the Lord God...
(With God as their Witness, the Lord (without water) can and does Baptize with the Holy Spirit, Individuals.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Thank you, I appreciate what you are saying.

But I was trying to point out that **IF** (for example) let's say one wished to send their son on a errand to the store and has only two components to this errand...

1. That he be born of a womb
2. Be breathing oxygen

Some things do not need to be said because it is something that everyone has already done. Jesus said to Nicodemus...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(G5204) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples


God's word is saying "water as in rivers" "fountains" "pools"

Thanks again,
God bless!

I believe Jesus' statement answers the question...what about aborted, miscarried, still born ( or whatever is the current term)... it all relates to a pregnancy having occurred...
BUT No individual " Living" thing having been born...thus it can not DIE.

And nothing Can BE "Born Again" with Eternal Life...IF it never had Life Previously.

"again" is a key word.

Obviously Jesus was making the statement to ALIVE humans...however throughout history People, Females personally, husbands, family members are part of a first hand experience of a baby, never experiencing a First Natural Life...if they could die and be Born Again.
No. if they had not first their own natural individual life, they can NOT die.

There is also wonderments about small children not yet comprehending what a God or Christ IS....if they are Saved and Quickened (born again)....which is Yes. God is Just. He is fully aware how He designed mankind to "develop" learning bit by bits of information, and does Not punish small children because they have not yet learned about Him.

Glory to God,
Taken