What does born again mean?

[Christ4Me]

Mk 16:16 faith AND baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith AND baptism

there is no baptism of the Holy Spirit

only the Christian sacrament of baptism by water in the name of the holy trinity not just the HS

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

John 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

His disciples were not saved until Pentecost long after they had been water baptized in Jesus's name in being His disciples.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Peter recounted the event of Acts 10 in the next chapter about how the gospel went to the Gentiles in how believing in Him was how they were born again of the spirit as in baptized with the holy Ghost at their salvation.

Acts 11:11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Water baptism is not a means for salvation but a first step newly saved believers to take in being His disciples publicly.

 

[Christ4Me]

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That verse is about being baptized with the Holy Ghost.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

That verse is still about the baptism with the Holy Ghost. See the earlier verses.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

By calling on the name of the Lord and thus believing in Him to be saved is how you wash away your sins.

Note the comma as calling on the name of the Lord is to be associated with how you wash away your sins.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?[/QUOTE]

 

[Curtis]

I see you disagree Curt, thanks for the input sir.

Jesus didn’t say it’s an option to be born again, or preferably you should be born again, He said you MUST be born again.

 

[Curtis]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

John 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

His disciples were not saved until Pentecost long after they had been water baptized in Jesus's name in being His disciples.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Peter recounted the event of Acts 10 in the next chapter about how the gospel went to the Gentiles in how believing in Him was how they were born again of the spirit as in baptized with the holy Ghost at their salvation.

Acts 11:11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Water baptism is not a means for salvation but a first step newly saved believers to take in being His disciples publicly.

As Jesus said, you do err, not knowing the scriptures.

Believers get a measure of the Holy Spirit at faith and repentance, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a complete infilling that occurs after salvation.

Jesus already gave the Holy Spirit to the apostles in John 20, before they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost later on - proving what I’ve said is a fact:

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

And don’t try to claim a difference between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, either.

The Greek word Pnuema, word G4151 in Strongs dictionary, is translated both as ghost and spirit in the KJV.

Not only that, but Luke has ghost and spirit in the same sentence, using them interchangeably.

Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Using the KJV with Strongs numbers from my bible software, you can plainly see that the word ghost and spirit are the same Greek word - G4151:

Luk 4:1 And G1161  Jesus G2424  being full G4134  of the Holy G40  Ghost G4151  returned G5290  from G575  Jordan, G2446  and G2532  was led G71  by G1722  the G3588  Spirit G4151  into G1519  the G3588  wilderness, G2048 

So, are you going to keep proving that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or accept the fact you are wrong about this topic?

The apostles had the HolySpirit before Pentecost, when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

Receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit is not receiving salvation: it’s receiving the fullness of the Holy Spirit - if you were a drinking glass, your empty glass is partially filled at salvation, and then further filled to the top when baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[theefaith]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

John 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

His disciples were not saved until Pentecost long after they had been water baptized in Jesus's name in being His disciples.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Peter recounted the event of Acts 10 in the next chapter about how the gospel went to the Gentiles in how believing in Him was how they were born again of the spirit as in baptized with the holy Ghost at their salvation.

Acts 11:11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Water baptism is not a means for salvation but a first step newly saved believers to take in being His disciples publicly.

All this refers to the Christian sacrament of baptism in the name of the father and of the son and of the HS Matt 28:19

no one is saved now see below

 

[theefaith]

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[theefaith]

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That verse is about being baptized with the Holy Ghost.



Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

That verse is still about the baptism with the Holy Ghost. See the earlier verses.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.



Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

By calling on the name of the Lord and thus believing in Him to be saved is how you wash away your sins.

Note the comma as calling on the name of the Lord is to be associated with how you wash away your sins.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

[/QUOTE]

1 cor 13:2 “all faith” without charity avails NOTHING!

 

[Pearl]

This discussion is pointless and will not make the slightest difference to the Catholics who have their own agenda and reject the beliefs of those who aren't part of their cult. Theefaith has read all our comments and refutes all of them, choosing instead to stand firm on the rock who is Peter rather than on the Rock who is Jesus.

 

[Christ4Me]

As Jesus said, you do err, not knowing the scriptures.

Only God can help either one of us to see the truth in His words.

Believers get a measure of the Holy Spirit at faith and repentance,

You either have the holy Spirit when born again or you do not. being filled and sealed is how we know we are saved; Matthew 9:17 That is why those who come to & believe in Jesus Christ will never hunger nor thirst to be filled again after salvation John 6:35.

and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a complete infilling that occurs after salvation.

Funny how that "supernatural infilling" aka the receiving of spirits, continues after that supposed second baptism with the Holy Ghost apart from salvation.

Jesus already gave the Holy Spirit to the apostles in John 20, before they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost later on - proving what I’ve said is a fact:

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

And don’t try to claim a difference between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, either.

There is a difference between a temporary infilling of the Holy Ghost and the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost that happens after He had ascended to the Father as this promise was to be sent from the Father when Jesus was no longer present with them, for when one is to be born again of the Spirit for believing in Him.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

That means His disciples were not born again of the Spirit until Pentecost.

The Greek word Pnuema, word G4151 in Strongs dictionary, is translated both as ghost and spirit in the KJV.

Not only that, but Luke has ghost and spirit in the same sentence, using them interchangeably.

Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Using the KJV with Strongs numbers from my bible software, you can plainly see that the word ghost and spirit are the same Greek word - G4151:

Luk 4:1 And G1161  Jesus G2424  being full G4134  of the Holy G40  Ghost G4151  returned G5290  from G575  Jordan, G2446  and G2532  was led G71  by G1722  the G3588  Spirit G4151  into G1519  the G3588  wilderness, G2048 

So, are you going to keep proving that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or accept the fact you are wrong about this topic?

The apostles had the Holy Ghost before Pentecost, when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

Receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit is not receiving salvation: it’s receiving the fullness of the Holy Spirit - if you were a drinking glass, your empty glass is partially filled at salvation, and then further filled to the top when baptized with the Holy Spirit.

No. There is no more receiving the Holy Ghost apart from salvation when we were born again of the Spirit. And like it or not, others are taking your extra calling to keep on going in continually filling themselves up with what they believe is the Holy Ghost. You can't stop them either. They address the Holy Spirit and pray to the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them and yet this phenomenon of infilling occurs again & again & again after your extra calling for saved believers to seek after in receiving this other baptism with the Holy Ghost.

If you judge those other infillings as not of the Lord, then you have to judge that extra "notable" phenomenon you are preaching about as not of the Lord. There is only one hope of our calling and that is done at the gospel; Ephesians 4:4-6 & 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

You got saved the moment you believed in Jesus Christ ( Galatians 3:26-27 ) and you had received the promise of the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ ( Galatians 3:14 ), not by sight as the world does in receiving spirits ( John 14:17 ) thus the gospel is not simple any more ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4).

You have to ask yourself what is your light that you are shining to the world? Are you a children of God by faith in Jesus Christ or are you a children of God by using tongues for private use or are you a children of God for having two or even more baptism with the Holy Ghost? What light are you shining that every believer ought to be remaining in and not departing from so we all speak the same thing & hold to the same judgment?

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Christ4Me]

All this refers to the Christian sacrament of baptism in the name of the father and of the son and of the HS Matt 28:19

No, it does not when those scripture differentiated between water baptism that men do from the baptism with the Holy Ghost that God does.

no one is saved now see below

Makes me wonder how you can tell any one the Good News about Jesus Christ as your Savior if you really believe you are not saved yet.

 

[Pearl]

You do know don't you that you can be born again without being baptised.

 

[Christ4Me]

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Most pf those verses is about running that race as His disciple by abiding in His words in these latter days where faith is hard to find. We run that race as saved believers because unbelievers do not have Jesus Christ in them to even run that race by faith in Him. We can, by looking to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ), but not for obtaining salvation, but the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:19-21 ) which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus 2 Timothy 2:10.

This is why former believers that deny Him and not just carnal believers living in sin, are to be called to depart from iniquity because that foundation is sure and His seal remains ( 2 timothy 2:18-19 ) because He is faithful for He still abides in former believers ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ) even though they are at risk of being denied by Him when He comes as the Bridegroom ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) as even religious works that deny Him will have Him denying them ( Titus 1:16 ).

So if any church teaches you that you are not saved yet, they are denying Jesus is your Savior. That is them enslaving you to their sacraments and system of works within their church to obtain salvation while they make merchandise of you. They are thieves that robbed you of the joy of your salvation.

As it is, you are saved for why you are in that race for the high prize of our calling to abide in Him & His words as we trust him to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to be received by Him when He comes as the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House.

Be a disciple of Jesus Christ in testifying of Him as your Savior that you are saved and testifying of Him as your Good Shepherd in helping you to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son by helping you lay aside every weight & sin to join Him at the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Stop being a disciple of that church, leave that church, and all of her sacraments and rest in Jesus Christ that you are saved and live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by abiding in His words; not through that thieving church that has robbed you of the joy of our salvation.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

That is just your church being an antichrist in coming in between you & Him in taking away the joys of your salvation when you are already saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead. Believe the scriptures and not the church for pulling all those scripture out of context when it was about enduring to the end to be saved from what is coming on the earth. 2 Peter 3:3-18

 

[Curtis]

Only God can help either one of us to see the truth in His words.



You either have the holy Spirit when born again or you do not. being filled and sealed is how we know we are saved; Matthew 9:17 That is why those who come to & believe in Jesus Christ will never hunger nor thirst to be filled again after salvation John 6:35.



Funny how that "supernatural infilling" aka the receiving of spirits, continues after that supposed second baptism with the Holy Ghost apart from salvation.



There is a difference between a temporary infilling of the Holy Ghost and the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost that happens after He had ascended to the Father as this promise was to be sent from the Father when Jesus was no longer present with them, for when one is to be born again of the Spirit for believing in Him.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

That means His disciples were not born again of the Spirit until Pentecost.



No. There is no more receiving the Holy Ghost apart from salvation when we were born again of the Spirit. And like it or not, others are taking your extra calling to keep on going in continually filling themselves up with what they believe is the Holy Ghost. You can't stop them either. They address the Holy Spirit and pray to the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them and yet this phenomenon of infilling occurs again & again & again after your extra calling for saved believers to seek after in receiving this other baptism with the Holy Ghost.

If you judge those other infillings as not of the Lord, then you have to judge that extra "notable" phenomenon you are preaching about as not of the Lord. There is only one hope of our calling and that is done at the gospel; Ephesians 4:4-6 & 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

You got saved the moment you believed in Jesus Christ ( Galatians 3:26-27 ) and you had received the promise of the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ ( Galatians 3:14 ), not by sight as the world does in receiving spirits ( John 14:17 ) thus the gospel is not simple any more ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4).

You have to ask yourself what is your light that you are shining to the world? Are you a children of God by faith in Jesus Christ or are you a children of God by using tongues for private use or are you a children of God for having two or even more baptism with the Holy Ghost? What light are you shining that every believer ought to be remaining in and not departing from so we all speak the same thing & hold to the same judgment?

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Tongues are not for salvation. Speaking in tongues does not prove salvation.

 

[theefaith]

As Jesus said, you do err, not knowing the scriptures.

Believers get a measure of the Holy Spirit at faith and repentance, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a complete infilling that occurs after salvation.

Jesus already gave the Holy Spirit to the apostles in John 20, before they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost later on - proving what I’ve said is a fact:

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

And don’t try to claim a difference between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, either.

The Greek word Pnuema, word G4151 in Strongs dictionary, is translated both as ghost and spirit in the KJV.

Not only that, but Luke has ghost and spirit in the same sentence, using them interchangeably.

Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Using the KJV with Strongs numbers from my bible software, you can plainly see that the word ghost and spirit are the same Greek word - G4151:

Luk 4:1 And G1161  Jesus G2424  being full G4134  of the Holy G40  Ghost G4151  returned G5290  from G575  Jordan, G2446  and G2532  was led G71  by G1722  the G3588  Spirit G4151  into G1519  the G3588  wilderness, G2048 

So, are you going to keep proving that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or accept the fact you are wrong about this topic?

The apostles had the HolySpirit before Pentecost, when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

Receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit is not receiving salvation: it’s receiving the fullness of the Holy Spirit - if you were a drinking glass, your empty glass is partially filled at salvation, and then further filled to the top when baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Jn 20 refers to the apostles as in authority

baptism is of the trinity Matt 28;19
Then the sacrament of confirmation

no one is saved until the end or the hour of death see below

 

[theefaith]

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[theefaith]

This discussion is pointless and will not make the slightest difference to the Catholics who have their own agenda and reject the beliefs of those who aren't part of their cult. Theefaith has read all our comments and refutes all of them, choosing instead to stand firm on the rock who is Peter rather than on the Rock who is Jesus.

only Jesus has authority to found a church
And only on the person of peter and the apostles and thier successors

 

[theefaith]

This discussion is pointless and will not make the slightest difference to the Catholics who have their own agenda and reject the beliefs of those who aren't part of their cult. Theefaith has read all our comments and refutes all of them, choosing instead to stand firm on the rock who is Peter rather than on the Rock who is Jesus.

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)


True Christians do not act from
Pride, presumption, and arrogance!

Private judgement!

Personal interpretation!

I decide truth for myself!

These are NOT Christian virtues!

This is NOT faith!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

The church is an extension of Christ to the whole world for all ages!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

 

[theefaith]

No, it does not when those scripture differentiated between water baptism that men do from the baptism with the Holy Ghost that God does.



Makes me wonder how you can tell any one the Good News about Jesus Christ as your Savior if you really believe you are not saved yet.

we become members of Christ and his church enter the new covenant a new creation in Christ having communion with God and his saints powered with grace to live a holy life for God!

see below for more

 

[theefaith]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[theefaith]

Most pf those verses is about running that race as His disciple by abiding in His words in these latter days where faith is hard to find. We run that race as saved believers because unbelievers do not have Jesus Christ in them to even run that race by faith in Him. We can, by looking to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ), but not for obtaining salvation, but the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:19-21 ) which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus 2 Timothy 2:10.

This is why former believers that deny Him and not just carnal believers living in sin, are to be called to depart from iniquity because that foundation is sure and His seal remains ( 2 timothy 2:18-19 ) because He is faithful for He still abides in former believers ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ) even though they are at risk of being denied by Him when He comes as the Bridegroom ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) as even religious works that deny Him will have Him denying them ( Titus 1:16 ).

So if any church teaches you that you are not saved yet, they are denying Jesus is your Savior. That is them enslaving you to their sacraments and system of works within their church to obtain salvation while they make merchandise of you. They are thieves that robbed you of the joy of your salvation.

As it is, you are saved for why you are in that race for the high prize of our calling to abide in Him & His words as we trust him to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to be received by Him when He comes as the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House.

Be a disciple of Jesus Christ in testifying of Him as your Savior that you are saved and testifying of Him as your Good Shepherd in helping you to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son by helping you lay aside every weight & sin to join Him at the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Stop being a disciple of that church, leave that church, and all of her sacraments and rest in Jesus Christ that you are saved and live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by abiding in His words; not through that thieving church that has robbed you of the joy of our salvation.



That is just your church being an antichrist in coming in between you & Him in taking away the joys of your salvation when you are already saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead. Believe the scriptures and not the church for pulling all those scripture out of context when it was about enduring to the end to be saved from what is coming on the earth. 2 Peter 3:3-18

there is only one church Jn 10:16
Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

All other are sects full of errors and have no authority from Christ
Nothing but errors and the tradition of men