What Does Christian Maturity Look Like? - "... solid food is for the mature..." - Heb. 5:14

[St. SteVen]

1) What is the measure of maturity?
2) What are the signs? (fruit) @Episkopos
3) How long should it take to get there?
4) What percentage in the church are mature?
5) What are you doing to help get them there? (assuming)

Hebrews 5:11-14 NIV
We have much to say about this,
but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.
12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you
the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

/

 

[Ziggy]

On the fly here. I have to go see dad..

Paul hears about a man who has committed a great sin in the church. He tells the members to cast him out and let the world take care of it's own.
Not long after, Paul hears about there giddiness that this man was thrown out. And he chastises them, telling them they aught to have been sorrowful that this thing happened and not taken occasion to act as brats.

OK I got to go. Be back later.

hugs

 

[O'Darby]

OK, @St. SteVen, I pondered this on my morning walk/run and here's my contribution. THEN IT'S NAP TIME. I'll be 74 next week, so I'm definitely a "mature person who is a Christian" even if I'm not a "mature Christian" (although my wife and most who know me might even challenge the mature person part).
______________________________________

I'm tempted to paraphrase what a Supreme Court Justice said about obscenity: "I can't define Christian maturity, but I know it when I see it." But even that isn't really true. Perhaps: "If you think you can define Christian maturity, you probably aren't a mature Christian." Worse yet: "If you think you are a mature Christian, you surely aren't."

I've known Christians who absolutely radiated the peace, joy, love, contentment and other fruits of the Spirit we'd all love to have. But wait, I've known non-Christians who radiated the same things. Hmmm. I suppose a Christian who radiated the opposite would have difficulty getting anyone to accept him as a mature Christian (take the hint, Bibliolators! ).

I don't think it has much to do with where one falls on the wide spectrum of Christian belief. I'm confident there are mature Christians in every branch of the faith.

Whether we're talking about Christians or non-Christians, we're all the product of genetics, childhood influences and other factors beyond our control. My next-door neighbor, now deceased, was an uneducated Alabama farm boy and retired railroader who had been the town drunk, whoremonger, wife-beater and general hell-raiser. He was widely known and detested. I loved the old fart – we became like father (him) and son. He was still a hair-trigger handful, but he truly loved God and was doing the best he could. He was a mature Christian in comparison to what he had once been, that's for sure.

I probably should address whether I think I'm a mature Christian. My honest answer would be, "In a way, but not really." I'm a "scholastically mature" Christian – I've surely studied as much philosophy, theology, apologetics and related subjects as anyone this side of a cloistered monk. But that's just who I am – scholastic by nature. A deep understanding of the issues and doctrines may have something to do with being a mature Christian, I think – but probably not a great deal.

Am I a faithful churchgoer and gospel proclaimer? Uh, no. Tell my neighbors for the past 27 years that O'Darby is a serious Christian and they're going to respond, "O'Darby is a Christian? We had no idea. We know he has a lot of cats."

Have I made the best, in the Christian sense, of the talents with which God has blessed me? Uh, no. I am literally staggered by what some Christians do, and suffer, for their faith. At one place where I worked, I learned that a Christian guy (who made far less than I did) and his wife had made six trips to Ukraine, and endured all the absurd red tape six different times, in order to adopt six Ukrainian orphans and raise them in their modest home in our little town. He never even spoke about it – I learned it from someone else. Or listen to the "Voice of the Martyrs" radio program if you want to be humbled. Suffice it to say, I spend a fair portion of my prayer time apologizing to God for not doing a whole lot (but don't overlook all those feral cats I'm feeding, Jesus!).

I'm pretty kind and certainly very generous – money means close to nothing to me – but not a "good Christian" in the way most people would define it. I'm not expecting any gold crowns in heaven. I will say that, over the decades, I have seen a fundamental transformation in Who I Am without any conscious effort on my part, which is what convinces me there is some reality to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I would probably define a mature Christian as one who is:

• secure in his convictions and comfortable with his doubts and questions;
• nondogmatic about what others should or must believe;
• accepting of the fact that God is an eternal transcendent Other whose ways must remain mysterious to His creatures;
• accepting of the fact that Christianity is not a tidy, connect-the-dots religion but a faith and a way of relating to God that must be experienced and lived;
• accepting of the fact that the Body of Christ includes an incredible diversity of personalities, understandings and talents and that this is what God intended;
• able to see the humor and even the absurdity in all this;
• accepting of his own humanity and the inevitable stumbling, fumbling and failure;
• regularly engaged in prayer and communion with a primary focus on the needs of others and his own shortcomings and failures;
• living in a near-constant state of gratitude to God for His creation and the opportunity to be a part of it; and
• at least making his best effort to lead a life pleasing to God in whatever circumstances he finds himself, even though his life may pale in comparison to those of the saints or an ideal Christian life.

By this standard, I delude myself into believing that I'm at least a somewhat mature Christian, albeit one whose Christian walk falls far short of the ideal. But it's also probably why Bible-thumpers tend to see me as "Not a Christian at all."

Nap time. This could last a week or more.

 

[O'Darby]

Oops, I didn't answer at least two of your questions:

1. How long? I think Christian maturity is a long, gradual journey. Someone may genuinely be on the path at age 15 (not me), but I think Christian maturity is also related to life experience and the diligence with which one pursues the quest. I was always introspective and serious, even as a child, and was born again at 20, but I quickly realized that I had many questions to ask and answer before I held real convictions. So I had stepped off the path of Christian fundamentalism by the time I was 23 and began my spiritual quest from scratch. I may have become "something like" a mature Christian by the time I was 55.

2. What percentage? I don't know - 5%, perhaps? What percentage are almost "completely mindless" Christians? Surely way more than 5%. In my experience and observation, most peoples' Christianity is almost entirely the product of parental influence, other authority figures, and cultural and societal influences rather than a serious quest for Truth. (This doesn't mean they aren't Christians, I hasten to add.) See my "Stages of Faith" thread. A mature Christian would have to be at least at level 4, and most people simply aren't. They "sorta kinda" believe Christianity without a great deal of thought one way or the other and find an appealing landing spot for mostly social and economic reasons. This sounds somewhat harsh and arrogant, I know - but how much of "Christianity, Inc." looks anything like what Jesus was talking about?

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't think it has much to do with where one falls on the wide spectrum of Christian belief. I'm confident there are mature Christians in every branch of the faith.

That's solid gold right there.

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response.
I'm still reading your first post. (but had to comment on that quote)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

My next-door neighbor, now deceased, was an uneducated Alabama farm boy and retired railroader who had been the town drunk, whoremonger, wife-beater and general hell-raiser. He was widely known and detested. I loved the old fart – we became like father (him) and son. He was still a hair-trigger handful, but he truly loved God and was doing the best he could. He was a mature Christian in comparison to what he had once been, that's for sure.

Reminded me of this song below and Brennan Manning, author of The Ragamuffin Gospel.
I look beyond these surface level problems to see the maturity, or intent, within.

/

 

[MatthewG]

The Old Testament is the solid food, that is the most difficult to swallow, in my opinion.

Yahava. The one whom allowed his spoken Word to create. Goes through a lot of working with and around Israel as a whole being twelve tribes and chosen to gain territory in that day.

Solid food though is tough to chew, some of the things taught by Jesus can be consider to be milk, and some of it’s solid food, tough to digest for whom make the choice to grow in their knowledge of the heavenly things.

Like, drinking the blood of Jesus, and eating the flesh of Yeshua. Spoken with Spiritual words, it always reverts back to remembering and remaining humble under the pressure of the world; willingly towards YHWH.

To drink the blood of Christ is to participate in His death, to actively participate in seeking Yahava in Faith.

To eat the flesh of Yeshua, is indicative of allowing the Spirit of Christ to work in and through you, if indeed the Holy Spirit of Elohim, resides within you.

However how did I get to such a conclusion?

To me it’s Yahava, by his Spirit, with the use of the Bible; and while the Bible supports these things, there are others who could suggest, that some person who is a bit wild goes and creates a cult: where there is no freedom and only bondage. Sometimes Churches are the same way, bondage and no freedom to think, and survey.

“Just mind me and don’t question anything,” is the type of mind that needs to be renewed in the washing of the word (actively participating and allowing one sanctification happen by and through one’s will to follow after thing things of Yahava, on behalf of Christ, in which they both reside within the believer.

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

 

[St. SteVen]

I probably should address whether I think I'm a mature Christian. My honest answer would be, "In a way, but not really." I'm a "scholastically mature" Christian – I've surely studied as much philosophy, theology, apologetics and related subjects as anyone this side of a cloistered monk. But that's just who I am – scholastic by nature. A deep understanding of the issues and doctrines may have something to do with being a mature Christian, I think – but probably not a great deal.

These things define who you as a person. A unique individual. But not necessarily an indicator of maturity.
You seem mature to me, but that's not why. Something to do with it though, I agree.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm pretty kind and certainly very generous – money means close to nothing to me – but not a "good Christian" in the way most people would define it. I'm not expecting any gold crowns in heaven. I will say that, over the decades, I have seen a fundamental transformation in Who I Am without any conscious effort on my part, which is what convinces me there is some reality to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I would take that as a sign of maturity on some level.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I would probably define a mature Christian as one who is:

• secure in his convictions and comfortable with his doubts and questions;
• nondogmatic about what others should or must believe;
• accepting of the fact that God is an eternal transcendent Other whose ways must remain mysterious to His creatures;
• accepting of the fact that Christianity is not a tidy, connect-the-dots religion but a faith and a way of relating to God that must be experienced and lived;
• accepting of the fact that the Body of Christ includes an incredible diversity of personalities, understandings and talents and that this is what God intended;
• able to see the humor and even the absurdity in all this;
• accepting of his own humanity and the inevitable stumbling, fumbling and failure;
• regularly engaged in prayer and communion with a primary focus on the needs of others and his own shortcomings and failures;
• living in a near-constant state of gratitude to God for His creation and the opportunity to be a part of it; and
• at least making his best effort to lead a life pleasing to God in whatever circumstances he finds himself, even though his life may pale in comparison to those of the saints or an ideal Christian life.

Excellent. Thanks.
(are you ready to be blasted by the usual suspects?)

By this standard, I delude myself into believing that I'm at least a somewhat mature Christian, albeit one whose Christian walk falls far short of the ideal. But it's also probably why Bible-thumpers tend to see me as "Not a Christian at all."

You're hired. - LOL

/

 

[Episkopos]

1) What is the measure of maturity?
2) What are the signs?
3) How long should it take to get there?
4) What percentage in the church are mature?
5) What are you doing to help get them there? (assuming)
View attachment 42179
Hebrews 5:11-14 NIV
We have much to say about this,
but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.
12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you
the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

/

Great thread...and so important.

1) What is the measure of maturity?

Selfless love. Disinterested benevolence. Willingness to suffer and be hated for the sake of the truth. Constant joy and peace no matter the trial. Maintaining the fruit of the Spirit through tribulation.


2) What are the signs?

Signs or fruit?

3) How long should it take to get there?

Approx. 40 years.


4) What percentage in the church are mature?

1 %


5) What are you doing to help get them there? (assuming)

A book, a podcast, a fellowship.

 

[St. SteVen]

1. How long? I think Christian maturity is a long, gradual journey. Someone may genuinely be on the path at age 15 (not me), but I think Christian maturity is also related to life experience and the diligence with which one pursues the quest. I was always introspective and serious, even as a child, and was born again at 20, but I quickly realized that I had many questions to ask and answer before I held real convictions. So I had stepped off the path of Christian fundamentalism by the time I was 23 and began my spiritual quest from scratch. I may have become "something like" a mature Christian by the time I was 55.

Agree.
Like learning anything, there is always more.

Maturity is more of a journey than a destination.

2. What percentage? I don't know - 5%, perhaps? What percentage are almost "completely mindless" Christians? Surely way more than 5%. In my experience and observation, most peoples' Christianity is almost entirely the product of parental influence, other authority figures, and cultural and societal influences rather than a serious quest for Truth. (This doesn't mean they aren't Christians, I hasten to add.) See my "Stages of Faith" thread. A mature Christian would have to be at least at level 4, and most people simply aren't. They "sorta kinda" believe Christianity without a great deal of thought one way or the other and find an appealing landing spot for mostly social and economic reasons. This sounds somewhat harsh and arrogant, I know - but how much of "Christianity, Inc." looks anything like what Jesus was talking about?

Yes. Being a regular pew polisher doesn't equal maturity.
That's just a bow to religion. And typically fueled by fear, or
"parental influence, other authority figures, and cultural and societal influences", as you say.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Great thread...and so important.

Thanks.
I'm very glad you joined us.

1) What is the measure of maturity?

Selfless love. Disinterested benevolence. Willingness to suffer and be hated for the sake of the truth. Constant joy and peace no matter the trial. Maintaining the fruit of the Spirit through tribulation.

Wow. Amazing list! Thanks.

2) What are the signs?

Signs or fruit?

I guess fruit works.
Fruit of the Spirit? (yes)

Note to readers; that's fruit (singular), not fruits (plural).
All in increasing measure, not pick and choose.
In the sense of produce, by the bushel.
Fully ripened and harvested fruit.

3) How long should it take to get there?

Approx. 40 years.

LOL
I'll give you two years tops!

4) What percentage in the church are mature?

.00001 %

LOL
Yes, a rare commodity.

5) What are you doing to help get them there? (assuming)

A book, a podcast, a fellowship.

Thanks for ALL you do!
I really appreciate your efforts.

/

 

[O'Darby]

Reminded me of this song below and Brennan Manning, author of The Ragamuffin Gospel.
I look beyond these surface level problems to see the maturity, or intent, within.

/

Bingo! People who don't know Kris Kristofferson's full story and think he's just some sort country outlaw would be flabbergasted. I had a friend in college named Calvin Kristofferson who told me he was Kris' brother - he was stoned all the time, and I bought it for three years. 40+ years later, I decided to see what had become of Kris' brother - only to learn he doesn't have a brother! FWIW, I sing "Sunday Morning Coming Down" on virtually all of my morning walks.

Great thread...and so important.

1) What is the measure of maturity?

Selfless love. Disinterested benevolence. Willingness to suffer and be hated for the sake of the truth. Constant joy and peace no matter the trial. Maintaining the fruit of the Spirit through tribulation.


2) What are the signs?

Signs or fruit?

3) How long should it take to get there?

Approx. 40 years.


4) What percentage in the church are mature?

1 %


5) What are you doing to help get them there? (assuming)

A book, a podcast, a fellowship.

I would only add that in addition to selfless love, IMO self-love has a role to play as well. I irritate many on forums such as this (and elsewhere) because I don't play the game of pretending to hate myself and thinking God sees my best deeds as dirty rags. Yes, I and my best deeds are far below the standard of God's perfect holiness, but I'm quite pleased with myself and am confident God is pleased with my little efforts. This, I believe, is the real message: You're not holy - not you're disgusting and unworthy. I might even say selfless love, toward God and others, is impossible without self-love.

My brother-in-law, who is a quasi-Christian quasi-Buddhist, once said to me, not as any particular compliment, "You seem like one of those people who will do things for others without expecting anything in return. Not me." Just now I looked up the definition of selfless love and found: "Selfless love is your ability to show respect, kindness, and compassion toward everyone and not expect anything in return. Someone who loves selflessly is willing to make sacrifices for others and helps even the people they may not necessarily like."

Do I really think of myself as selfless? No, but I have sufficient self-love and confidence in God's love and care for me that I have no real needs, nothing I feel I have to protect, no particular fears, and thus can be (or try to be) generous and compassionate with others.

 

[Ziggy]

Israel had forty years of meat. Christianity had three and a half years of milk.

Meat:
Lev 25:35
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
Lev 25:36
Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Lev 25:37
Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.
Lev 25:38
I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God.
Lev 25:39
And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
Lev 25:40
But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile:
Lev 25:41
And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.
Lev 25:42
For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen.
Lev 25:43
Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.
Lev 25:44
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
Lev 25:45
Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
Lev 25:46
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Lev 25:47
And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:
Lev 25:48
After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:
Lev 25:49
Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.
Lev 25:50
And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.
Lev 25:51
If there be yet many years behind, according unto them he shall give again the price of his redemption out of the money that he was bought for.
Lev 25:52
And if there remain but few years unto the year of jubile, then he shall count with him, and according unto his years shall he give him again the price of his redemption.
Lev 25:53
And as a yearly hired servant shall he be with him: and the other shall not rule with rigour over him in thy sight.
Lev 25:54
And if he be not redeemed in these years, then he shall go out in the year of jubile, both he, and his children with him.
Lev 25:55
For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Deu 5:1
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 29:4
Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Milk:

Luk 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

 

[Ziggy]

Exo 23:19
The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
Exo 34:26
The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
Deu 14:21
Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.


Jhn 21:15
So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Jhn 21:16
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Jhn 21:17
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

1Co 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
1Pe 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Milk and Meat.
Blessings and Curses
Grace and Law

Do not boil the meat in the milk.
Do not curse where there is blessing
Do not live under condemnation when you are set free.

However, with freedom comes a cost.
Do not become complacent. Do not become unlawful. Do not become a sluggard and a glutton.
Stay awake. Sow the field and reap the good, bear good fruit, do good works and be filled with the Lord's righteousness and not your own.

Do not fall into the same trap Israel fell into. They became full and laid down to sleep.
Stay vigilant.

 

[Ziggy]

Kids:

Num 28:30
And one kid of the goats, to make an atonement for you.
Num 29:5
And one kid of the goats for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you:

Luk 15:11
And he said, A certain man had two sons:
Luk 15:12
And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
Luk 15:13
And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
Luk 15:14
And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
Luk 15:15
And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
Luk 15:16
And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
Luk 15:17
And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19
And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21
And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22
But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23
And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
Luk 15:26
And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
Luk 15:27
And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28
And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29
And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30
But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
Luk 15:31
And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Luk 15:32
It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Luk 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luk 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

The elder son was in the field and he was angry, and he would not go in.


Mat 20:13
But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14
Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Mat 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mar 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luk 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Deu 6:25
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Deu 9:6
Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
Mat 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[O'Darby]

I hope this thread doesn't die on the vine and that my contribution didn't stifle discussion. I'd be sincerely interested in how some those at the Bibliolatry end of the spectrum answer the questions. Not so I can attack you, but truly just to see what your answers look like.

 

[St. SteVen]

Israel had forty years of meat. Christianity had three and a half years of milk.

Thanks for your posts.
Will you also respond to the OP questions?

1) What is the measure of maturity?
2) What are the signs? (fruit)
3) How long should it take to get there?
4) What percentage in the church are mature?
5) What are you doing to help get them there? (assuming)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you say? (topic link below)

Is Revenge a Sin?

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