What does it mean "there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus".....

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brightfame52

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You want to quibble about being the elect now or the pre-elect ages ago. Fine.

Whether the elect or pre-lect, any man on earth sinning now with the devil, is just as much of the devil and in need of repentance and forgiveness from Jesus Christ, as any other man on earth sinning now with the devil.

You can say you were 'pre-elected' before you were ever born if you want, but while sinning with the devil here and now, that is all done away and has nothing to do with anything anymore.

Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

I.e. the OSAS teaching of not being condemned for sinning, while still sinning, is a hypocrite's lie, that enables the world to blaspheme the cross, the blood, and the grace of Jesus Christ.

The Jews did it with the law, and Christians now do it with grace.

He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If you don't want to understand that God is not un unrighteous judge, with respect of persons, so that Christians are unjudged by Him, while doing the same things He judges others for, then you can't be helped in the truth at this time.
Nobody in Christ and for whom Christ died[His elect] is condemned, no matter how much they sin, God doesnt impute their sins to them. Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom 8:33-34


33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

And yes, Gods elect sin all day every day until they die or Christ comes in the second coming, but they will never be condemned for any sin !
 

Jim B

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I believe the manuscript to be "there is therefore no confemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walks not in the flesh, but by the Spirit." The reason is because I actually feel condemned when I don't listen to God, it comes upon me even though I try to not feel anything about it and say it's ok, so all-in-all, I feel it seems that you do get condemned/punished, it comes with a consequence, but when you confess your sins He is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrighteouness again and if you pray with a broken and contrite heart, He will not despise and when you always have a repentant heart, a mind which always wants to do right and please God and listen to Him because it's wise to listen to the all-wise who can see things which you cannot see, then you will not be put to shame. You will still be saved, but what about the scripture that says "My sheep hear My voice and follow Me", I don't understand how that will justify what I just said, anyone?
It doesn't matter what you believe about the manuscript. The issue is whether it was added to the earliest manuscripts, and the evidence is that it was added. I doubt anyone disagrees with the doctrine, which is probably why it was added later, but that isn't the point. Th earliest manuscripts do not have this addition to Romans 8:1.
 
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Jim B

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Hmmmm.....where to start? First of all, you mistake gentle humor for “ Sarcasm” .....easy for me to understand that—- it’s just the nature of this type of communication that most things sound “ terse” and sometimes even “ mean”—- the lack of facial expressions and voice inflections make for trouble and misunderstandings quite often.....I say many things that are VERY “ tongue in cheek” with a smile on my face that are not meant to be taken as Unkind....sorry about any misunderstandings....

However , if I “ WAS” being Sarcastic, I would find myself in good company....Remember when the Legalists insisted that *Everything* hinged on Circumcision? We are all familiar with what part of a man’s anatomy was to be “ cut off”, right ? It was just the tip of a certain body part.....Paul, in His exasperation proclaimed , “ I wish that you’d just go ahead and cut the Whole Thing off!” You think “that” was not being “ Sarcastic?”..... I could provide more examples....

Lastly, if you want to insult me, that is fine.....I couldn’t care less.....but at least show a little intelligence with the choice of words that you use.....You referred to me as a “ Pharisee”.....Do you understand what that word MEANS? Do you even “understand” the problem that Jesus had with Pharisees? It was their Hard Hearts —- it was their “ Self- Righteous” attitudes.....they thought that they were “ good enough” by their supposed Law- Keeping abilities to be Worthy Of Heaven.....They looked down on others because they though they were better than them because the Delusion ally believed that they “ Kept the Law”...

I am the Polar Opposite Of any Pharisee .....Anybody That has followed my posts over the years knows that I readily and often refer to myself as the TRUE “ Chief Of Sinners” who does not have a CHANCE to become Saved but for the Pure Grace Of God ....does that sound like something a Pharisee would say? Hardly. I don't condemn “ sinners” as the Pharisees were famous for.....i know that I am one of them.....

I could call you a “ Vampire” , but it would not have any “ sting” to it because everybody knows that it contains no truth.....same thing applies with you calling me a “ Pharisee”....in the future, so you don’t reveal your ignorance, find a derogatory name that has some “ meat” to it....meanwhile, it’s back to the drawing board for you....
If you want to insult me, I couldn’t care less, but at least show a little intelligence with the choice of words that you use. In your own opinion you write "I am the polar opposite of any Pharisee". The Pharisees also thought that they were 100% in their opinions and judgements of others. In the future, so you don’t reveal your ignorance, find a derogatory name that has some “meat” to it, Mr. Pharisee.
 
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Phoneman777

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There is at least one forum that prohibits King-James-only people -- for good reason. KJVOs have closed minds! They are stuck in unreality and think that a flawed translation, based on a limited set of sources, is the only one that is actually God's word (as though God spoke in archaic Englyshe). Sad!!!!
I'm not a "KJV only" man, my friend!

Concerning the NT, I'm a "Textus Receptus" only man - which means ANY BIBLE written before the 20th century (excluding the Latin Vulgate, the Douay-Rheims, and every other writing out of what Luther called "the Roman dunghill of decretals" found in the "Western MSS Family" aka "Catholic Family"). That means all Bibles translated in the German, Spanish, Armenian, Italian, English, Russian, French, Portuguese, etc., from the Textus Receptus are perfectly acceptable MSS , not just the KJV.

Scholars have characterized certain Alexandrian MSS as so close to those in the Western Family that it appears both families deserve to be lumped in together. It is the proponents of the Alexandrian Family who are the most closed minded, stubbornly militant supporters of new translations because their total ignorance of the historic development of the Bible as we read it today.

Do you know there were WARS fought over Bible translations?
Do you know for centuries, Rome forbade under pain of death the translation, possession, and reading of it?
Do you know Bibles were CHAINED to Catholic pulpits to keep what limited truth did exist there from the people?

So, I'm not surprised at all that you hold the position you do - what I HATE is that you and those like you run around disparaging "KJV ONLY" people without anything but intellectual bigotry to inspire you all. No different than these arrogant young people who stand up and defend the communism their radical leftist professors preached to them without the slightest clue that this ideology was responsible for ONE HUNDRED MILLION MURDERS in the 20th century alone.

If you'd like to learn why "KJV ONLY" people feel as they do, I'm never but a few key strokes away, friend.

Peace.
 

Phoneman777

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1 John 2:3-4, " Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments. The one who says “I have come to know God” and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person." This has nothing to do with being saved. It has to do with keeping God's commandments, so your point is dismissed as irrelevant.
A blind man can see that this has everything to do with being saved. Even a fool knows if a person is to be saved, he must first know Him before deciding to follow Him, right or wrong?

"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the Truth (Jesus is the Truth!!!!!) is not in him."​
Jesus is not in those who claim to know Him but refuse to obey Him, no matter how high they wave their praise hands in church, and if they persist in their rebellion, they will burn up in the Lake of Fire and the universe will be rid of these rebellious fools for all eternity.
 

Gospel Believer

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If you want to insult me, I couldn’t care less, but at least show a little intelligence with the choice of words that you use. In your own opinion you write "I am the polar opposite of any Pharisee". The Pharisees also thought that they were 100% in their opinions and judgements of others. In the future, so you don’t reveal your ignorance, find a derogatory name that has some “meat” to it, Mr. Pharisee.


If It is my opinion that a person gets Saved by Believing that Jesus died for their sins and rose from the grave....I will JUDGE any person that rejects that ( Paul’s Gospel That He says Saves a person , given to him by Jesus personally) as being Unsaved and on their way to Hell unless they “change their mind” ( Repent) and come to Believe it......does that make me a “ Pharisee? “ , Mr Limited Intelligence? If so—- you can call me “ King Pharisee!”.......Sincerely yours, Gospel “ King Pharisee” Believer....


It needs to be noted that YOU think that you are 100% correct in your opinion about “ me” and YOU are now guilty of the SAME THING that you accuse me of—- YOU have Judged ME ! Kinda “Ironic”, isn’t it? I will be eagerly waiting for your clever reply......it was cute the way you used my words and turned them on me..... it was a page right out of my own playbook! .....will you do it again?
 
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Gospel Believer

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A blind man can see that this has everything to do with being saved. Even a fool knows if a person is to be saved, he must first know Him before deciding to follow Him, right or wrong?

"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the Truth (Jesus is the Truth!!!!!) is not in him."​
Jesus is not in those who claim to know Him but refuse to obey Him, no matter how high they wave their praise hands in church, and if they persist in their rebellion, they will burn up in the Lake of Fire and the universe will be rid of these rebellious fools for all eternity.


I “ obey” Jesus by going by His latest “ Marching Orders”......Those “ orders” were to “ Follow Paul “..

Paul said that the Way to be Saved was to BELIEVE “His” Gospel ( the One Given to Him by Jesus ) .... the One Found In 1Cor15 :1-4 .....

This automatically has me doing something of Vital Importance! It proves that I am doing “ The WILL Of The Father” ......what would that “ Will” be? It’s quite simple—— “ BELIEVE in the One that He sent”.....
 

Gospel Believer

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A blind man can see that this has everything to do with being saved. Even a fool knows if a person is to be saved, he must first know Him before deciding to follow Him, right or wrong?

"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the Truth (Jesus is the Truth!!!!!) is not in him."



Here’s a Commandment for you—-and its a “ Biggie!” Do you Love God with *ALL* of your heart , with * ALL* of your soul, and with * ALL* of your mind ? Yeah, I though not.....not “ALL” of your heart, soul and mind.....let’s be honest here .....

If you can’t even obey that “First” Commandment what are you gonna do with the remaining 612? For those in the audience with “ eyes to see”, and have the spiritual insight to know that they can’t live up to God’s Standard- which is PERFECTION 24/7— there is Good News ! If you will simply Believe the Gospel Found In 1Cor 15:1-4 , God will take your Faith in that Gospel and COUNT it as “ Righteousness “ .....He will GIVE you an “ Imputed” Righteousness and see you just as He sees His Son....” AMAZING GRACE” indeed!

The choice is yours—— live under the Satanic Delusion That you “ keep the Law” and Deserve to go to Heaven or come out of the “ Fool’s Paradise” and see that you are a Lost Sinner , on your way to a deserved Hell and you MUST have a Savior who can offer you the Grace that only He can provide because of His Death, Burial and Resurrection, and Your Trust in that and that ALONE to Save you.....
 

Enoch111

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but then the "repent or perish", why is there a contradiction, or is it? Thanks this can really help me right now.
"Repent or perish" is for those who are NOT in Christ Jesus. But when God justifies a sinner and forgives his or her sins, then "there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus". They have been placed into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
 

thelord's_pearl

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John 10:5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

So let us harken to the voice of God, to be obedient and not listen to a stranger's voice! for God's true sheep Hear His voice and follow Him and does not follow the stranger's voice. This happens through reading the Word of God (the sword of the Spirit) and having a relationship of faith in Him. Let us pray about it, that we will be His true sheep, not false sheep, or become His true sheep if that's possible. I know it's hard not to sin sometimes or not to listen to God, that I think comes with not reading the Bible carefully and having a lack of motivation from a psychiatric medication I'm withdrawing from now, for those of us who are stuck like me for now, but I still try and have discussions on here.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Hi Randy Kluth,
I'm so sorry to hear that you are suffering the same thing, hardship of repentance.
I think I'm feeling better about repenting now but now I know another sin I should totally repent from as well. I will do my best.
So I also think there's a sin in which the Holy Spirit prompts you not to do, but you don't trust in God and believe the "worldly" Satanic lie and then sin, but if you repent of this then there's no condemnation of those who are in Christ sin who walketh not in the flesh but by the Spirit.
Then there's the sin in which you're under pressure so you accidentally sin but then you repent right away so you're redirected so you're covered, there's no condemnation for you in Christ Jesus...
Then there's the sin that you can't help but 'feel', but you don't 'act' on it, then you're covered, there's no condemnation for you in Christ Jesus, etc (the whole verse).
Then there's a sin that's tempting but it seems like God can provide a way out of it, meaning it becomes not that tempting (you can pray about it), then you can probably stop it, then there's no condemnation for you in Christ Jesus... if you stop it.
In conclusion, I still think repentance is a constant struggle but it says in the Bible, All things are possible with God. I hope this helps.
Oh I feel bad for you. I think you have some confusions and…are wearing yourself out needlessly. You seem to me to be trying to finish in your own strength what was begun by the Spirit.
I think Galatians 3 might help you some.

It has helped me to think of some words very succinctly. Like “faith” =trust .
And repent = turn back to trust when you find yourself in anxious worries rather than trust.


The Law and Faith in Christ​

3 Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. 3 How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? 4 Have you experienced[a]so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?

5 I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.

6 In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[b] 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.

8 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would make the Gentiles right in his sight because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”[c] 9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.

10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”[d]11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”[e] 12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”[f]

13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”[g] 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised[h] Holy Spirit through faith.

The Law and God’s Promise​

15 Dear brothers and sisters,[i] here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child.[j] And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,[k]” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. 20 Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.

21 Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises?[l] Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. 22 But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

God’s Children through Faith​

23 Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.

24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. 25 And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.

26 For you are all children[m] of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.[n]28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile,[o] slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[p] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.
 

thelord's_pearl

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John 10:5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
Now why did it say in: 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.… if the above quote says "a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him; for they know not the voice of strangers. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Well.... then I look at the part where Jesus says 'Depart from Me, you who "practise" iniquity'. So it seems like God is saying He knows you will sin, but don't "practise" sin 'intentionally' without an effort. Which also means that you will fall in sin otherwise you will be a liar, but you will repent and always have a repentant heart. What are other's thoughts on this? I'd be happy if you'd discuss this too. Thanks a lot!
 
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thelord's_pearl

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Personally I think there are contradictions in scriptures bc it was corrupted by man. We'd then have to go through/study history to possibly know the truth, but all-in-all we can conclude something here and that's as far as I've gone.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Personally I think there are contradictions in scriptures bc it was corrupted by man. We'd then have to go through/study history to possibly know the truth, but all-in-all we can conclude something here and that's as far as I've gone.
Hmm…what are some of those contradictions you’ve seen? Can you give an example or two?
Do you mean like…this one? -
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Now why did it say in: 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.… if the above quote says "a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him; for they know not the voice of strangers. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Well.... then I look at the part where Jesus says 'Depart from Me, you who "practise" iniquity'. So it seems like God is saying He knows you will sin, but don't "practise" sin 'intentionally' without an effort. Which also means that you will fall in sin otherwise you will be a liar, but you will repent and always have a repentant heart. What are other's thoughts on this? I'd be happy if you'd discuss this too. Thanks a lot!
I’m trying to think if I can help you a little. You dart very quickly from thing to thing. :)
Maybe I will wait until you have time to read Galatians 3 in my first post.

I can say though(about seeming contradictions), that the entire Bible is completely riddled with them. For almost every verse there is also a verse in tension to it that seems to say the exact opposite and that most of the huge and never ending arguments in here are where one person argues the one part and the other person argues the other part, with neither one understanding both parts together.
 

robert derrick

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Nobody in Christ and for whom Christ died[His elect] is condemned, no matter how much they sin, God doesnt impute their sins to them. Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom 8:33-34


33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

And yes, Gods elect sin all day every day until they die or Christ comes in the second coming, but they will never be condemned for any sin !
I reject such fanatical OSAS.

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

The difference between saints of God and ungodly sinners, is between saints doing righteousness and ungodly sinners doing ungodly sinning.

The OSAS gospel is false:

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away, unless they are Christians.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous, unless they are Christians.

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish, unless they are Christians.
 
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brightfame52

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I reject such fanatical OSAS.

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

The difference between saints of God and ungodly sinners, is between saints doing righteousness and ungodly sinners doing ungodly sinning.

The OSAS gospel is false:

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away, unless they are Christians.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous, unless they are Christians.

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish, unless they are Christians.
I dont care what you reject. Thats between you and God your Maker !
 
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Gospel Believer

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Good for you!

Have a blessed sinful day.

Everyday is a” Sinful Day”..... you ever hear about the “ Sins Of OMISSION?”.......Even if you perfectly “ kept the Law( and you DONT! ) , how many strangers have you invited into your home to feed and clothe today while you lounged away in the comfort of your own home? If you know right things to do and you dont do them, it is a SIN.....I bet there are plenty of hospitals and soup kitchens that could use your help RIGHT NOW !

Btw.....have you had any IMPURE THOUGHTS today .....if you had just ONE lustful thought go through your mind today, you are no better than an Adulterer , according to Jesus....

If you really KNEW how Sinful every day of your life is, you’d stop rejecting Grace and Cling to it —- it’s the ONLY thing that saved any man that ever “ GOT” Saved.....