What does it mean to be born again?

[Lizbeth]

which are in Christ Jesus; not as mere professors are in Christ, who may be lost and damned: but this being in Christ, respects either that union and interest which the elect of God have in Christ, from everlasting: being loved by him with an everlasting love; betrothed to him in a conjugal relation; chosen in him before the foundation of the world; united to him as members to an head; considered in him in the covenant of grace, when he engaged for them as their surety; and so they were preserved in him, notwithstanding their fall in Adam; in time he took upon him their nature, and represented them in it; they were reckoned in him when he hung upon the cross, was buried, rose again, and sat down in heavenly places; in consequence of which union to Christ, and being in him, they are secure from all condemnation: or this may respect an open and manifestative being in Christ at conversion, when they become new creatures, pass from death to life, and so shall never enter into condemnation: hence they stand further described, as such
who walk not after the flesh; by which is meant, not the ceremonial law, but the corruption of nature, or the corrupt nature of man, called "flesh"; because propagated by carnal generation, has for its object fleshly things, discovers itself mostly in the flesh, and makes persons carnal and fleshly; the apostle does not say, there is no condemnation to them that have no flesh in them, for this regenerate persons have;

nor to them that are in the flesh, that is, the body; but who walk not after the flesh, that is, corrupt nature; and it denotes such, who do not follow the dictates of it, do not make it their guide, or go on and persist in a continued series of sinning:
but after the spirit, by which is meant, not spiritual worship, in opposition to carnal ordinances; but rather, either a principle of grace, in opposition to corrupt nature, called "Spirit", from the author, subject, and nature of it; or the Holy Spirit of God, the efficient cause of all grace: to walk after him, is to make him our guide, to follow his dictates, influences, and directions; as such do, who walk by faith on Christ, and in imitation of him, in the ways of righteousness and holiness; and such persons walk pleasantly, cheerfully, and safely: now let it be observed, that this walk and conversation of the saints, is not the cause of there being no condemnation to them; but is descriptive of the persons interested in such a privilege; and is evidential of their right unto it, as well as of their being in Christ: and it may be further observed, that there must be union to Christ, or a being in him, before there can be walking after the Spirit. The phrase, "but after the Spirit", is left out in the Alexandrian copy, and in the Vulgate Latin, and Syriac versions; and the whole description of the persons in some copies, and in the Ethiopic version.
Gill

I think that is lovely. Amen.

We delight in the law of God after the inward man.......because our inward man is created righteous and holy. That's why Paul wrote, If I do what I don't want to do (therefore this is not talking about willfully sinning) then it's no longer I who sin, but sin living in me.

As believers we might sin inadvertently as human beings who have not been perfected yet, and we sorrow over it....thank God for His grace through Christ, to longsuffer and bear with us. But willful sins are another matter. If we keep on willfully sinning there remains no more sacrifice for that....that puts a soul in danger.

I've been pondering where it talks about the Israelites entering the promised land, and God said they would take the land little by little, lest they be overtaken by the wild animals (if all the inhabitants are killed off too quickly). God in His wisdom knows that sometimes our infirmities are the crosses that we need to carry for a time at least, lest we be overtaken by the wild beasts of things such as pride and self righteousness, etc. It is His wisdom that we have the opportunity to learn humility and realize our human weakness and fallibility often by the mistakes that we make. This way the Lord exposes our problems to us that we might seek Him and be healed of them, eventually I hope, speaking for myself!

 

[Episkopos]

You are not getting what people are saying.

Quite the opposite. I am not being allowed to point out what is obviously wrong in a person's religious estimation. I am trying to provide balance and godly wisdom...but that affects the still kicking carnal outer man...that refuses to go to the cross. Why? Because of false promises of glory WITH the outer man intact. Utter foolishness. So often it is what we accept as truth (actually only a half-truth or a lie) that shackles us to being far less than God expects of us. A rotten tooth needs to be pulled out. Anyone trying to help the person with the bad tooth will be seen as trying to hurt. So the tooth festers.

And that is why you are making a wrong assumption about what we're "claiming".

It's actually your claiming that is based on assumptions...and presumptions. You are taking things too far and ignoring the proper humility and fear of the Lord. You are not being careful enough to not offend holiness.

We are only claiming to have received a gift that we didn't earn in any way, and that not of our own that no man may boast. while we were yet sinners.

I am assuming that everyone here has been regenerated by the Spirit and has received the free samples of grace.

We have received Christ, the new man, our renewed inner man created after Christ, His image.....which is righteous and holy....perfect.

Here is where you are going wrong. You have received a new heart and a template of Christ in the inner man. But NOT the empowering that allows the inner man to walk in resurrection life...24/7 by the keeping power of God. For that you need to enter INTO Christ personally. Being crucified in the outer man (not as a doctrine but as a work of God) allows the inner man (Christ in you) to "PUT ON CHRIST"....to be clothed with His power and grace to walk as Jesus walked. So we see there is a saved FROM and a saved TO. That is the difference between a circular walk in the wilderness and a storing up of glory in heaven.

it's so difficult talking to you about what you both avow and deny at the same time.

But I don't see anybody here claiming to be walking in it as much as we should be or could be 24/7.

Again...you are using an avowal to cover up a disagreement. I'm the one showing the way to that walk...but I get attacked for not listening to how people have received the free stuff. I'm trying to help people move forward...not backward. But people will argue they have free stuff as if that is all there is to it. They overstate their case because of religious pride...thinking no one could possibly know more than themselves. But then they will admit (or some people will) that they have no experience with a walk in Zion....24/7. So how can you talk to people who harbour such dishonesty?

I think we understand that we need to leave the foundational things in a manner of speaking and go on to perfection.

Only if the foundation is solid and a proper balance is understood. A little knowledge can get in the way of a greater understanding.

I won't try to speak for others, but I still battle the flesh as well as distractions of life in this world. I look back on my life and with sorrow have to agree with the Lord, that no, my works weren't perfect. Still straining for what lies ahead because I know I need to be better.

Of course we are all in the same boat. We all are born with the same nature. And we have all received the free gift of a sample (or samples) of grace.

But who is willing to listen to a deeper look into God and His ways? Almost no one.
That's why the servant with one talent doesn't even bear fruit with the little he has received. He hasn't figured out that one must tear down before one can build. Religious certainty is a killer.

 

[Behold]

Making people declare themselves as righteous as God for a mere religious acceptance

Its God who declares us "made righteous", as that is to be born again.

 

[Lizbeth]

And yet evangelicalism does that very thing. Making people declare themselves as righteous as God for a mere religious acceptance of certain verses that are usually taken out of context. The warnings of the bible are almost always ignored...and this shows a lack of respect for God and His ways. But judgment is coming.

Of course when I repeat those warnings...I get criticized and even condemned...as religious people will always do as they react to anyone who puts God out of their carnal grasp.

If we see that we only know in part...why all the religious certainty? Where is the humility? The devil has been very successful in infiltrating a religious spirit into the churches...in the guise of the Holy Spirit. People devour one another with who is more saved than the other. People reduce the words of God to what they have already experienced...no seeking is seen as good.

I have been on these threads for years and when I encourage people to seek for more...since there is so much more...I almost always get abuse.

So I see a basic dishonesty in those who claim to be saved and seated in heavenly places.....and claim to have God's own righteousness. The monkeys have taken over the zoo. Anyone with a little discernment can see that. But when a person's religious standing is questioned....oh my...the knives come out.

Is that not just a carnal religious posturing pretending to be something it isn't? (rhetorical question...of course it is! )

Yes, I agree there is more that we need to be reaching for, but we better just not dig out the foundation...we sure do need to be building on that foundation. Well, I'm not pretending anything, just bringing scriptures here. I know what I am. In me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing. Makes me all the more grateful for Christ in me. See, we have been given this TREASURE in our earthen vessels.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, I agree there is more that we need to be reaching for, but we better just not dig out the foundation...we sure do need to be building on that foundation. Well, I'm not pretending anything, just bringing scriptures here.

That is the problem...a misuse of scriptures. Scripture monkeys have not understood the text to the appropriate depth.

I know what I am. In me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing. Makes me all the more grateful for Christ in me. See, we have been given this TREASURE in our earthen vessels.

We have, and you have, an amazing potential. Our collective job is to help one another to go further...together.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No one is sinning when they are in the spirit. On the contrary sinning is what people might do when they are walking in the flesh (but of course not necessarily). If someone is sinning they are not in the spirit, but in the flesh, and walking after the flesh in those moments.

Yes.

 

[Behold]

For that you need to enter INTO Christ personally.

Every born again Christian is "in Christ".
God puts us there, as this is the same thing as being "One with God'.

 

[Episkopos]

Every born again Christian is "in Christ".
God puts us there, as this is the same thing as being "One with God'.

Being born again is a pre-requisite to oneness with God. The same goes for seeing the kingdom and entering in. Always a pre-requisite.

But what of the cost of entering into the kingdom walk in Zion, and oneness with the Father?

We need to look to Jesus and what He taught concerning this...

Matt. 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hides, and for joy thereof goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field.

Matt. 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Can anyone give Jesus an amen?

OK...can everyone just continue to ignore Jesus?

Notice how few believers here consider the words of Jesus to have any value at all.

 

[Behold]

Being born again is a pre-requisite to oneness with God.

Episkopos...

Im not certain what cult taught you that salvation begins with Christ and you finish it for God, or.... that salvation, which is the new birth, which is to become a new creation IN CHRIST.....is progressive and you are in charge of its completion, and you'll not name the cult or the teacher that has taught you that you can lose your salvation as well as the rest of this Paul rejection trite that you are offering the members here.....but you can know this..

The born again are "one with God" "made rightoeus"

The born again are IN CHRIST.

The born again have become "the righteousness of GOD, in Christ.

The born again are "seated in heavenly places." right now.

The born again have become "heirs of God", and "joint heirs with Jesus".

Salvation is Christ on the Cross, its not something we complete, its something that God provided 2000 yrs ago, as "the Gift of Salvation" and "The Gift of Righteousness".

 

[amigo de christo]

Its God who declares us "made righteous", as that is to be born again.

and GOD has already predetermined exactly HOW that occurs . ONLY IN CHRIST JESUS
can one be made righteous . Let the KING be praised . never follow rome nor any other
who brings not that doctrine . ITS ONLY in CHRIST can one be saved , ITS only in CHRIST can one be made
the righteousness of God . ITS only in CHRIST that one can be justified . And its only in Christ
that one shall have salvation . PREACH JESUS TILL THE LAST and FINAL BREATH .
There is none that is righteous , there is not a man or woman or child who has not sinned .
GOD ALONE gets the GLORY and HE GETS the GLORY in THE SON . BELEVE YE in CHRIST JESUS whom
GOD did send . And never follow francis nor any who comes to lead folks astray . Be ye hearers and doers of the glorious Word .

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos...

Im not certain what cult taught you that salvation begins with Christ and you finish it for God, or.... that salvation, which is the new birth, which is to become a new creation IN CHRIST.....is progressive and you are in charge of its completion, and you'll not name the cult or the teacher that has taught you that you can lose your salvation as well as the rest of this Paul rejection trite that you are offering the members here.....but you can know this..

The born again are "one with God" "made rightoeus"

The born again are IN CHRIST.

The born again have become "the righteousness of GOD, in Christ.

The born again are "seated in heavenly places." right now.

The born again have become "heirs of God", and "joint heirs with Jesus".

Salvation is Christ on the Cross, its not something we complete, its something that God provided 2000 yrs ago, as "the Gift of Salvation" and "The Gift of Righteousness".

I'm finishing my salvation by quoting Jesus? Do you realize how much you are against the words of Jesus? Anyone who listens to Jesus...you write off in favour of your true master...Luther. You side with a religious spirit that loves the flesh and the salvation of the flesh.

Your religious posturing is the same as the Pharisees thinking they were following Moses. But you can't possibly claim to follow Jesus since you have no respect whatsoever for His words. You condemn me for posting what He said.

if that doesn't expose your religious posturing...nothing will.

Why do so few here honour Jesus and His teachings...in favour of an upstart monk named Luther? Did Luther die for your sins? Does Luther give you eternal life?

Why such hatred for the Lord Jesus?

As long as people love the flesh and claim to be saved by a free sample of grace...the more they will resist the VALUE of selling all to have Christ's resurrection life. Is Jesus worth more than a free sample? Not for many. And those who don't pay the price to have the full measure of grace will die in their sins.

 

[Behold]

and GOD has already predetermined exactly HOW that occurs . ONLY IN CHRIST JESUS

Yes, God, who knew you would be here today talking to me.....and He knew this before we were born......didn't cause us to be here, but in His FOREKNOWLEDGE, He knew we would.... be on the forum.

CALVIN and his HERETICS would say..>"God caused you to be talking to Behold"...>"you have no freewill'.

See that nonsense?

The Calvinist can't see it, because DECEPTION blinds the mind INTO spiritual darkness so that the Light of Truth can't be seen or understood easily.

 

[Behold]

I'm finishing my salvation by quoting Jesus?

Episkopos.

Im not some weak believer, who is unstable in their faith...so, you wont be able to misuse the bible on me to try to cause me to fall from Grace.
You can give that up, as ive met and dealt with hundreds just like you.
Believe it.

also, ..
Noone finishes their salvation by quoting anyone.
You can't finish the Cross, but you will teach that you can, deceiver.

And i notice that you attempt to "sound spiritual", and i can assure you , its a fail.

And did you want to explain to the reader here, why you believe you can lose your salvation?
See, ive shown these people for a long time that all heretics believe that Jesus does not keep them saved.
So, that is "i can lose my Salvation".

Explain to them why you think you can, as exposure, yours, is continuing to be a very good learning experience for this Forum.

Go ahead, Episkopos., and next, i'll ask you for the 3rd time in my next post to you, as you again try to deflect and dodge what you really believe, and what you are really doing here.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, God, who knew you would be here today talking to me.....and He knew this before we were born......didn't cause us to be here, but in His FOREKNOWLEDGE, He knew we would.... be on the forum.

CALVIN and his HERETICS would say..>"God caused you to be talking to Behold"...>"you have no freewill'.

See that nonsense?

The Calvinist can't see it, because DECEPTION blinds the mind INTO spiritual darkness so that the Light of Truth can't be seen or understood easily.

Yeah DONT HEED calvin . HEED CHRIST , HEED GOD , HEED THE SPIRIT and learn those bibles .

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos.

Im not some weak believer, who is unstable in their faith...so, you wont be able to misuse the bible on me to try to cause me to fall from Grace.

You don't have any understanding of grace beyond a free sample of it. Quoting Jesus you call misusing the bible. Why not be honest with those who have less discernment (since they can't see you for what you really are as long as you keep posturing). Are you against following Christ? Are you against His teachings? Were they part of an old "dispensation"? Was Jesus only talking to the Jews. Why not come clean and try a little honesty as to your true motivation?

You can give that up, as ive met and dealt with hundreds just like you.
Believe it.

Amen! The fact that there are hundreds who can see through your charades...is encouraging. Thank you for that.

also, ..
Noone finishes their salvation by quoting anyone.
You can't finish the Cross, but you will teach that you can, deceiver.

Selling all and buying the land (kingdom realm) is the truth. You are the deceiver. The spirit you follow hates the truth...hates the cross and hates our Lord Jesus. But it LOVES the rebellious flesh. Anyone (at least hundreds) can see where you're coming from.

And i notice that you attempt to "sound spiritual", and i can assure you , its a fail.

And did you want to explain to the reader here, why you believe you can lose your salvation?
See, ive shown these people for a long time that all heretics believe that Jesus does not keep them saved.
So, that is "i can lose my Salvation".

"My salvation"..."My precious" ...One only needs to read your posts (with a Gollum voice) to hear the filthiness of the flesh speaking.

Explain to them why you think you can, as exposure, yours, is continuing to be a very good learning experience for this Forum.

I'm here to bring light, balance and clarity to an otherwise muddied gospel. A gospel that has been hijacked by the flesh...to serve what needs to be crucified...not gloried in.

Go ahead, Episkopos., and next, i'll ask you for the 3rd time in my next post to you, as you again try to deflect and dodge what you really believe, and what you are really doing here.

This sounds like a confession...or as close to a confession as you'll ever be able to give.

 

[Behold]

You don't have any understanding of grace beyond a free sample of it.
Amen! The fact that there are hundreds who can see through your charades...is encouraging. Thank you for that.
But it LOVES the rebellious flesh. Anyone (at least hundreds) can see where you're coming from.

Episkopos..
You need attention..
I get it, and im going to give you more....no worries.

Also, I i keep showing these readers, you wont admit that you believe you can lose your salvation, because that will self define you as a person who does not understand the Cross, who is pretending to be a Teacher.
Good luck with that....
And if you decide to lie, i'll use your posts to prove you are lying about "Lose my salvation".

Next...

My understanding of Grace, is the Cross of Christ... as that is Paul's Doctrine.....And this is God's Amazing Grace.... for it is ONLY through this blood atonement that God accepts us, and keeps us, as there is no other way.... John 14:6

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos..
You need attention..
I get it, and im going to give you more....no worries.

You are trolling my thread but it's me looking for attention.

Also, I i keep showing these readers, you wont admit that you believe you can lose your salvation, because that will define you as a person who does not understand the Cross who is pretending to be a Teacher.

You see Jesus as a kind of whipping boy who gets all your dirty deeds dumped on Him...while you get all His goodness. (No wonder you disrespect His words so much). Will God receive you with open arms for this? Or reject you? A sober mind will see how this is a damnable position to take. But why not stay drunk in one's own self-love? You better pray that God loves your rebellious flesh as much as you do.

Good luck with that....
And if you decide to lie, i'll use your posts to prove you are lying about "Lose my salvation".

Since you see everything upside down...the very thing you fear will happen to you. One must run the race till the end to be saved...Jesus said that a few times....but you don't respect anything He says anyway...so you will condemn me for it...and not Jesus who said it. At least not openly...otherwise even the less discerning would find out who you really are and what you stand for.

Next...

My understanding of Grace, is the Cross of Christ... as that is Paul's Doctrine

Your religious mind has misunderstood Paul. Paul gloried in the cross that HE HIMSELF was crucified on...not that Jesus was crucified on. But you can't read that since your mind goes only to what is free and easy for the flesh. Why? Your motivation is from the rebelliousness of the flesh being inspired by a religious and deceiving spirit.

.....And this is God's Amazing Grace.... for it is ONLY through this blood atonement that God accepts us, and keeps us, as there is no other way.... John 14:6

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Is the whole world then saved?

But He was RAISED for our justification...who lay down their lives to be raised into His resurrection life to walk as He walked without sin. THAT is the amazing grace. We have this treasure in earthen vessels. The whole world? No! All religious posturers? No! All who listen to Luther? No.

Who wins Christ? All win Christ through the brokenness of the outer man. Unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies...it cannot bear fruit. Likewise, as we sell all to purchase a place in God's eternal kingdom through a full sacrifice of ourselves....we are accepted into the Beloved and have a share in the promises towards all who love Him (and hate the flesh...which disqualifies people like you who only want Jesus to experience the cross).

 

[Behold]

You see Jesus as a kind of whipping boy who gets all your dirty deeds dumped on Him..

You deflected again, your belief that you can lose your salvation, as you know this will self define you as a Cross rejecting Legalist.
That #5.

And you'll do it again, Episkopos, or you'll lie soon enough about that, and then i'll be around your posts, and i'll use them to highlight your LEGALISM.
I did it last year, and i'll do it here.....now....as you see me doing it again.

Episkopos, they are watching you...

Now to your theologically ignorant comment about Jesus being a "whipping boy"..
I see Jesus as our "sin bearer" as "God made Him to be sin for us"., and took those stripes (scourging, not a whipping).. and those spikes and the Crown of thorns, in our place, for our sin, so that by this Eternal REDEMPTION that is the Blood Atonement, we the believers in this Gospel , by Faith, can be born again, by the Holy Spirit, as "the righteousness of God in Christ". = "made Righteous".

Here is the result of The Cross of Christ.....as Jesus explained His sacrifice from The Cross.... as "It IS Finished".


2 Corinthians 5:19

That is Paul, teaching the Gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

You deflected again, your belief that you can lose your salvation, as you know this will self define you as a Cross rejecting Legalist.
That #5.

And you'll do it again, Episkopos, or you'll lie soon enough about that, and then i'll be around your posts, and i'll use them to highlight your LEGALISM.
I did it last year, and i'll do it here.....now....as you see me doing it again.

Episkopos, they are watching you...

Now to your theologically ignorant comment about Jesus being a "whipping boy"..
I see Jesus as our "sin bearer" as "God made Him to be sin for us"., and took those stripes (scourging, not a whipping).. and those spikes and the Crown of thorns, in our place, for our sin, so that by this Eternal REDEMPTION that is the Blood Atonement, we the believers in this Gospel , by Faith, can be born again, by the Holy Spirit, as "the righteousness of God in Christ". = "made Righteous".

Here is the result of The Cross of Christ.....as Jesus explained His sacrifice from The Cross.... as "It IS Finished".


2 Corinthians 5:19

That is Paul, teaching the Gospel.

When someone reads Paul in a way that makes them think that Jesus was a heretic or that He preached "another gospel"...you have to surmise that they are misreading Paul. As Peter warns us...

1. 2 Pet. 3:16 “As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

 

[Lizbeth]

Here is the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the present religious culture...

A person picks up a bible and reads..."We are seated in heavenly places in Christ." The person gasps..."I am"???? The religious lying spirit responds..."yes you are!" The person is made happy because he can have an even greater self-esteem...thanks to Jesus. His flesh (now made religious) can be twice as deceived as it ever was.

Now that same person reads in the bible..."you are poor, naked, wretched and blind". The person gasps..."who me?" The religious lying spirit says..."no, not you, you're special...you are seated in heavenly places, remember?!!!" The person's self-esteem remains intact and untouched by the truth and can continue to avoid the cross (since it's Jesus' job to do all the hard stuff...we just get all the free benefits) And they all said...amen!

Oh yes we are seated in heavenly places. There is a mystery to that.......need to at least partially grasp how the Lord and heavenly realm exists outside of the realm of time though.