What does it mean to be born again?

[marks]

And I do accept the passages.

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Care to explain this for me in simple English Scott? This flew right over my head--and I am not ashamed to admit it.

The connection with the spirit of God is not just a warm and fuzzy feeling. It does indeed feel good, but if it is just the warmth of being close to the fire, not having actually walked in it, the Spirit is not in you or you in Him. Warming up to it is good--it is, but it is not the saving power of God. Such a person is not with child--that child of the Spirit. It's only dating, flirting, loving it, but not actually coming together (as one flesh).

Some stay in the romance stage of spiritual flirting and cuddling for the rest of their lives holding onto the promise of salvation like a flower pressed in a book. And we know what book it is! They have the promise and that is enough for some, and they can even serve many wonderful needs within the church and spread the good news of the gospel. It's just not salvation--and concerning themselves, they are correct--they only possess a promise. Very little if any change has occurred, they just feel good, and that is great; and the learned among them preach a watered down gospel, a gospel-in-part. And...they argue with those who are already married, already one flesh with Christ, about how waiting and enduring until you die is "the way." It's not. In fact they have missed the way that was intended. It was not intended that the betrothed should have a lengthy engagement, but rather "quickly" be swept off their feet by His "coming soon." It's the parable of the wise and the foolish virgins. It's the underbelly of religion, the Mary's vs. the Martha's. Hence the squabbling.

To the contrary, the Mary's and the wise virgins collapse at His feet as dead, waiting for nothing--not to put it off until the body of flesh runs out of its own life, becoming old maids only to receive their salvation after a life of wanting. It is in the dying, whether young or old that the promise of the new Spirit birth and new life comes. Israel waited until that day, but since Jesus went to the Father and has sent the Holy Spirit, there is no longer any need to wait to know and walk in the Spirit. Even so, many wait.

English? Maybe.

 

[Lizbeth]

@Lizbeth, this is puzzling to me, the spiritual understanding of scriptures I do understand--the experiential side, how do you experience walking in the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, in/en the Spirit 24/7?

With me, I have not experienced 24/7 walking in the spirit, only times of being in the spirit, though I've heard of people being in a trance for a number of days.

Well, for the sake of discussion I wonder if it depends on what people mean by being in the spirit and walking in the spirit. The bible says we are in the spirit if we have the spirit dwelling in us. And that is true, and being in the spirit in that sense can be something we are not even conscious of, or not conscious of it all the time at least. But I think that is not quite what is meant by walking in the spirit. I think walking in the spirit can be a voluntary walking after the spirit, ie, doing or yielding to what you know is His will, following His leading or instruction, or unction, or it can also be the Lord catching someone up in the spirit to accomplish a specific task, for example, or it can mean to be caught up in a vision for another example. It seems that there are different ways being in the spirit can manifest and it can be in different degrees, whether a stronger manifestation or just subtle, or anything in between. We can also be in the spirit when praying, just when experiencing God's gentle presence, and sometimes that can linger with you for a while when you're finished praying. Being in the spirit doesn't have to mean something particularly out of the ordinary is going on.

 

[Lizbeth]

I read at least part of this.
Remain in Me and I in you are two different things to me. Since I have never been in the Spirit or walked in the Spirit yet, I could be wrong about that in some way but the verses tell me they are two different things.

Sister...are you born again? Did you receive Christ at some point, where the Lord was miraculously revealed to your heart? Where you suddenly believed with a faith that came from outside yourself and was not your own? When you knew that you knew God was real? Experienced a joy unspeakable and peace that passed understanding? If so, you were in the spirit in those moments! And very likely other times since, that you are just not aware of or think of as being in the spirit. (IF you have been born again, I don't know your history.)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you believe you can walk in the Spirit today? That God has given you that power in making you a new creation? I'm glad you have hope that someday you can, but why not today?

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Why wait?

Much love!

Sister...are you born again? Did you receive Christ at some point, where the Lord was miraculously revealed to your heart? Where you suddenly believed with a faith that came from outside yourself and was not your own? When you knew that you knew God was real? Experienced a joy unspeakable and peace that passed understanding? If so, you were in the spirit in those moments! And very likely other times since, that you are just not aware of or think of as being in the spirit. (IF you have been born again, I don't know your history.)

I disagree that I was walking in the Spirit in those moments. He was in me, He was leading me, but no, I was not walking in the Spirit. I also disagree with your assertion that one can be walking in the Spirit and not know it. But then, it appears that you and marks are the ones who know how to walk in the Spirit and know what it means and know how to do it and that you two walk in the Spirit, not sinning. So I think it’s you who should be answering questions. I don’t claim to be, or ever have, walked in the Spirit so I’m not the one who should be answering questions. The only thing I can attest is that I never have.

 

[marks]

walk in the Spirit, not sinning.

Trusting in Christ is not looking at yourself. Just like Paul, who said,

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

I think it's hubris to say, or think, "I don't sin". That's tantamount to saying, "I know just as well as Jesus knows". Judge nothing before the time - Jesus will tell you in that day the truth about yourself. There are things we may be blind to, and things we may refuse to admit, to ourselves.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Trusting in Christ is not looking at yourself. Just like Paul, who said,

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

I think it's hubris to say, or think, "I don't sin". That's tantamount to saying, "I know just as well as Jesus knows". Judge nothing before the time - Jesus will tell you in that day the truth about yourself. There are things we may be blind to, and things we may refuse to admit, to ourselves.

Much love!

I think it’s hubris to say you are in Him/walking in the Spirit WHILE you are sinning. I think it’s hubris to say you are in Christ while sinning when there is no sin in Him.

 

[marks]

I think it’s hubris to say you are in Him/walking in the Spirit WHILE you are sinning.

I agree, that is, walking in the Spirit. Walking refers to the way we are living our lives, the manner in which we live. Either it is according the Spirit, or according to the flesh. If one is walking according to the flesh, there is no point in claiming that one is walking in the Spirit. Like @ScottA was saying, we just find emptiness and religiosity that way.

I think it’s hubris to say you are in Christ while sinning when there is no sin in Him.

That goes towards being born again. If you are, you've been immersed into Christ. It's in Christ that you have every spiritual blessing. Every. Only "In Christ". If you are "in Christ", you have these blessings. If you are not "in Christ", you have none of it. Let me know if you want to see the Scriptures that tell these things.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

This is what we do well to understand that we now have - His promises. By them we can be partakers of His nature. By His promises. Think of what that means! His personal commitment to make it happen.

Be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is what we do well to understand that we now have - His promises.

As I said, I have great hope in His promises. We hope for what we don’t yet have. We don’t hope for what we already have.
You seem to have adjusted slightly. Im pretty sure you would say you didn’t though. But before you were saying, why don’t you believe?? As if hoping in His promises means a lack of trust and only believing you already have all His promises is trusting.

 

[Johann]

The connection with the spirit of God is not just a warm and fuzzy feeling. It does indeed feel good, but if it is just the warmth of being close to the fire, not having actually walked in it, the Spirit is not in you or you in Him. Warming up to it is good--it is, but it is not the saving power of God. Such a person is not with child--that child of the Spirit. It's only dating, flirting, loving it, but not actually coming together (as one flesh).

As I said, I have great hope in His promises. We hope for what we don’t yet have. We don’t hope for what we already have.
You seem to have adjusted slightly. Im pretty sure you would say you didn’t though. But before you were saying, why don’t you believe?? As if hoping in His promises means a lack of trust and only believing you already have all His promises is trusting.

Some stay in the romance stage of spiritual flirting and cuddling for the rest of their lives holding onto the promise of salvation like a flower pressed in a book. And we know what book it is! They have the promise and that is enough for some, and they can even serve many wonderful needs within the church and spread the good news of the gospel. It's just not salvation--and concerning themselves, they are correct--they only possess a promise. Very little if any change has occurred, they just feel good, and that is great; and the learned among them preach a watered down gospel, a gospel-in-part. And...they argue with those who are already married, already one flesh with Christ, about how waiting and enduring until you die is "the way." It's not. In fact they have missed the way that was intended. It was not intended that the betrothed should have a lengthy engagement, but rather "quickly" be swept off their feet by His "coming soon." It's the parable of the wise and the foolish virgins. It's the underbelly of religion, the Mary's vs. the Martha's. Hence the squabbling.

I understand you perfectly....Pentecostalism, going on feelings and goosebumps, always fluctuating.
You should read the custom on a Jewish wedding Scott, ..the lengthy engagement whilst the bride is now "preparing herself" awaiting the parousia of her Husband, Jesus.
As to endurance this is biblically correct, and you seem to protract the "waiting" with the "coming" in real time.
it also appears to me you spend a great deal in the gospels, not reading the epistles?

To the contrary, the Mary's and the wise virgins collapse at His feet as dead, waiting for nothing--not to put it off until the body of flesh runs out of its own life, becoming old maids only to receive their salvation after a life of wanting. It is in the dying, whether young or old that the promise of the new Spirit birth and new life comes. Israel waited until that day, but since Jesus went to the Father and has sent the Holy Spirit, there is no longer any need to wait to know and walk in the Spirit. Even so, many wait.

Again, this makes no sense to me, the Mary's and the wise virgins collapse at His feet as dead?....not putting off the body?
This is where misunderstanding abounds, this is what I would call fancy, poetic "waffling" with words, not using the scriptures, confusion and "mysticism" Scott, as if you "know something that others are not"
I notice @marks "liked" this.
Our Bible is a Jewish book, Messiah was a Jew, and, from reading through this waffling it is very apparent you read the red letters only, and not the Pauline epistles brother, no offense.

J.

 

[Johann]

Do you believe you can walk in the Spirit today? That God has given you that power in making you a new creation? I'm glad you have hope that someday you can, but why not today?

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Why wait?

Much love!

Marks, you "walk" in the Spirit 24/7, eureka! @stunnedbygrace was very transparent and now it is as if she is not even reborn! She is asking questions, and there is no such thing as a "stupid" question.

You are not helping her brother, but casting doubt on her eternal salvation. Why insist on her "doing" what she already knows, and believe, but don't know "how?"

And @ScottA is not helping either, just waffling with words, no power whatsoever, in any way, shape or form, not using scriptures at all.

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mat 12:19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
Mat 12:21 And in his name shall the Gentiles [Stun] trust.

Smoking flax signifieth flax in the kindling of which the fire had not prevailed, and so is a very apt metaphor to express such as believe, but are full of doubts and fears, or such as have a truth of grace, but yet much corruption; Christ is prophesied of as one that will encourage, not discourage, such souls.

You are not encouraging her, but discourage Marks, is this how Christ would have done it?

Jesus will never snuff out a smoldering flax!

Johann.

 

[Johann]

7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For he that is dead, is freed from sin. This is not to be understood of a natural or a corporeal death; for this is the effect of sin, and is inflicted by way of punishment for it, on Christless persons; so far is it from being an atonement for sin, as the Jews (t) fancy; besides, there are many persons, who as they die in their sins, they will rise in them; though a natural death is alluded to, when persons are free from those laws and obligations to service and duty they are under whilst living:

but here it is to be understood of a spiritual or mystical death, and of persons who are dead to the law, by the body of Christ; dead to sin by the sacrifice and grace of Christ; who are baptized into the death of Christ, and in imitation of him:

such are "freed from sin"; not from the being of it; nor from the burden of it; nor from a continual war with it; nor from slips and falls into it; no, not even freed from it, in the most solemn services and acts of religion; but they are freed from the dominion of it, from servitude to it, and also from the guilt of it, and from obligation to punishment on account of it: they are, as it is in the Greek text, and as the Vulgate Latin and Arabic versions read, "justified from sin".

This is what Stun needs to hear, encouragement, same goes for me, if I can't find encouragement here I would rather encourage myself in Christ or be encouraged by the Scriptures
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Ye that are spiritual; meaning not such who had greater spiritual gifts than others, their ministers, pastors, and ecclesiastical governors, though these may be so called; and to them it belongs to reprove and rebuke, recover and restore backsliders, which they should do in gentleness and meekness; but the apostle here addresses the brethren in general, the several members of the church, even all but those that were fallen: nor does he mean such as have more spiritual knowledge than others, in opposition to babes; nor regenerate persons, and such as had the Spirit of God, in distinction from carnal men;

but such as live and walk in the Spirit, and are strong, and stand by the power and grace of the Spirit of God, as opposed to the weak, and who were fallen through the prevalency of the flesh, and force of temptation;

whose duty it is, and on whom it lies, to
restore such an one, that is overtaken and fallen.

The allusion is to the setting of bones that are broken, or out of joint, which is done with great care and tenderness.

Professors fallen into sin are like broken and dislocated bones; they are out of their place, and lose both their comfort and usefulness, and are to be restored by gently telling them of their faults, and mildly reproving them for them; and when sensible of them, and troubled for them, by speaking comfortably to them, and by bringing them again, and resettling them in their former place in the church, and restoring them to their former usefulness and good conduct: and which is to be done

Maybe you should read Gill on how to encourage the fallen ones in this race, yet not out?

I am not here to "correct" you Marks, just soften the tone on the wounded and hurt ones, and I am aware that you know her a long time.

 

[Johann]

English? Maybe.

Yeah, I understand you Scott, hope there was no sarcasm. Again, having read through your waffle, sounds like Kabballah, "mysticism" and only the initiated are fully enlightened, no scripture references at all.

 

[Johann]

With me, I have not experienced 24/7 walking in the spirit, only times of being in the spirit, though I've heard of people being in a trance for a number of days.

Well, for the sake of discussion I wonder if it depends on what people mean by being in the spirit and walking in the spirit. The bible says we are in the spirit if we have the spirit dwelling in us. And that is true, and being in the spirit in that sense can be something we are not even conscious of, or not conscious of it all the time at least. But I think that is not quite what is meant by walking in the spirit. I think walking in the spirit can be a voluntary walking after the spirit, ie, doing or yielding to what you know is His will, following His leading or instruction, or unction, or it can also be the Lord catching someone up in the spirit to accomplish a specific task, for example, or it can mean to be caught up in a vision for another example. It seems that there are different ways being in the spirit can manifest and it can be in different degrees, whether a stronger manifestation or just subtle, or anything in between. We can also be in the spirit when praying, just when experiencing God's gentle presence, and sometimes that can linger with you for a while when you're finished praying. Being in the spirit doesn't have to mean something particularly out of the ordinary is going on.

I find your explanation like a cool, fresh breeze, so by faith I walk by the Spirit, and being in the Spirit, although I might be not fully aware of this reality all the time, a daily constant yielding to Christ, the ego eimi dethroned, yet still aware of the subtle promptings of the flesh, hence the Imperative of spiritual warfare.

Being in the spirit doesn't have to mean something particularly out of the ordinary is going on.....I fully concur here.

Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

But I suppose I will now be told I DO walk just as He did and I just refuse to believe I do because of the sin I see in me?

Episkopos should help you, not me, but he is lashing out like a viper to any and all, way far to the "right-est"
I am not here to tell you what to DO..do whatever you believe is true.

 

[Johann]

With me, I have not experienced 24/7 walking in the spirit, only times of being in the spirit, though I've heard of people being in a trance for a number of days.

Well, for the sake of discussion I wonder if it depends on what people mean by being in the spirit and walking in the spirit. The bible says we are in the spirit if we have the spirit dwelling in us. And that is true, and being in the spirit in that sense can be something we are not even conscious of, or not conscious of it all the time at least. But I think that is not quite what is meant by walking in the spirit. I think walking in the spirit can be a voluntary walking after the spirit, ie, doing or yielding to what you know is His will, following His leading or instruction, or unction, or it can also be the Lord catching someone up in the spirit to accomplish a specific task, for example, or it can mean to be caught up in a vision for another example. It seems that there are different ways being in the spirit can manifest and it can be in different degrees, whether a stronger manifestation or just subtle, or anything in between. We can also be in the spirit when praying, just when experiencing God's gentle presence, and sometimes that can linger with you for a while when you're finished praying. Being in the spirit doesn't have to mean something particularly out of the ordinary is going on.

which are in Christ Jesus; not as mere professors are in Christ, who may be lost and damned: but this being in Christ, respects either that union and interest which the elect of God have in Christ, from everlasting: being loved by him with an everlasting love; betrothed to him in a conjugal relation; chosen in him before the foundation of the world; united to him as members to an head; considered in him in the covenant of grace, when he engaged for them as their surety; and so they were preserved in him, notwithstanding their fall in Adam; in time he took upon him their nature, and represented them in it; they were reckoned in him when he hung upon the cross, was buried, rose again, and sat down in heavenly places; in consequence of which union to Christ, and being in him, they are secure from all condemnation: or this may respect an open and manifestative being in Christ at conversion, when they become new creatures, pass from death to life, and so shall never enter into condemnation: hence they stand further described, as such
who walk not after the flesh; by which is meant, not the ceremonial law, but the corruption of nature, or the corrupt nature of man, called "flesh"; because propagated by carnal generation, has for its object fleshly things, discovers itself mostly in the flesh, and makes persons carnal and fleshly; the apostle does not say, there is no condemnation to them that have no flesh in them, for this regenerate persons have;

nor to them that are in the flesh, that is, the body; but who walk not after the flesh, that is, corrupt nature; and it denotes such, who do not follow the dictates of it, do not make it their guide, or go on and persist in a continued series of sinning:
but after the spirit, by which is meant, not spiritual worship, in opposition to carnal ordinances; but rather, either a principle of grace, in opposition to corrupt nature, called "Spirit", from the author, subject, and nature of it; or the Holy Spirit of God, the efficient cause of all grace: to walk after him, is to make him our guide, to follow his dictates, influences, and directions; as such do, who walk by faith on Christ, and in imitation of him, in the ways of righteousness and holiness; and such persons walk pleasantly, cheerfully, and safely: now let it be observed, that this walk and conversation of the saints, is not the cause of there being no condemnation to them; but is descriptive of the persons interested in such a privilege; and is evidential of their right unto it, as well as of their being in Christ: and it may be further observed, that there must be union to Christ, or a being in him, before there can be walking after the Spirit. The phrase, "but after the Spirit", is left out in the Alexandrian copy, and in the Vulgate Latin, and Syriac versions; and the whole description of the persons in some copies, and in the Ethiopic version.
Gill

 

[Johann]

And...they argue with those who are already married, already one flesh with Christ, about how waiting and enduring until you die is "the way." It's not.

Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1Co_1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th_3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
2Th_1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

2Ti_2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2Ti_2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti_4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Heb_12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Heb_12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

Jas_5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

1Pe_2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
This is a perfect example of how theological systems abuse the proof-texting method of interpretation. Usually a guiding principle or chief text is used to construct a theological grid by which all other texts are viewed. Be careful of grids from any source. They come from western logic, not revelation. The Bible is an eastern book. It presents truth in tension-filled, seemingly paradoxical pairs. Christians are meant to affirm both and live within the tension. The NT presents both the security of the believer and the demand for continuing faith and godliness. Christianity is an initial response of repentance and faith followed by a continuing response of repentance and faith. Salvation is not a product (a ticket to heaven or a fire insurance policy), but a relationship. It is a decision and discipleship. It is described in the NT in all VERB TENSES:

AORIST (completed action), Acts 15:11; Rom. 8:24; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5
PERFECT perfect (completed action with continuing results), Eph. 2:5,8
PRESENT (continuing action), 1 Cor. 1:18; 15:2; 2 Cor. 2:15
FUTURE (future events or certain events), Rom. 5:8,10; 10:9; 1 Cor. 3:15; Phil. 1:28; 1 Thess. 5:8-9; Heb. 1:14; 9:28

Yeah we wait, and to endure, according to the scriptures, and might I add, persevere/watching?

Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Mat_25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Luk_12:38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Luk_21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
1Co_16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.

Col_4:2 Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;

1Th_5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

2Ti_4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Heb_13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1Pe_4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


1Pe_4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

So Scott, we don't watch, endure and wait?

 

[Lizbeth]

I disagree that I was walking in the Spirit in those moments. He was in me, He was leading me, but no, I was not walking in the Spirit. I also disagree with your assertion that one can be walking in the Spirit and not know it. But then, it appears that you and marks are the ones who know how to walk in the Spirit and know what it means and know how to do it and that you two walk in the Spirit, not sinning. So I think it’s you who should be answering questions. I don’t claim to be, or ever have, walked in the Spirit so I’m not the one who should be answering questions. The only thing I can attest is that I never have.

No one is sinning when they are in the spirit. On the contrary sinning is what people might do when they are walking in the flesh (but of course not necessarily). If someone is sinning they are not in the spirit, but in the flesh, and walking after the flesh in those moments.

I don't know what you mean by "it's you who should be answering questions"....?....we're all here discussing and contributing what we can, aren't we? Voluntarily...?

We don't always know how to rightly interpret our experiences, so we need to keep that in mind. Even Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or out of it when he went to the third heaven. And he didn't HAVE to know. And then there is the temptation to interpret our experience in a way that fits our doctrines. But if we're in the spirit and we have gotten to know the Lord in some depth, we understand that the things of the Spirit are not always so cut and dried as we might like them. Soon as we think we've got the Lord God Almighty all figured out, wrapped up and tied with a bow, along He may come and blow our mind, showing Himself God! He always reserves the right to show Himself God, to BE God, and surprise us outside the box of what we think we know. Scripture says if we think we know, we do not yet know as we ought. And, we only know in part. Who can fathom the Lord? We need to hold the things we think we know in spirit, not sealed and hardened in cement of the carnal mind, and that way it remains subject to the Lord, subject to whatever tweeking or growing we may receive. Because it's HIS truth, after all. We are not God. Our trust is in HIM, the Living God, not in our ability to know things and nail everything down.

 

[Episkopos]

No one is sinning when they are in the spirit. On the contrary sinning is what people might do when they are walking in the flesh (but of course not necessarily). If someone is sinning they are not in the spirit, but in the flesh, and walking after the flesh in those moments.

I don't know what you mean by "it's you who should be answering questions"....?....we're all here discussing and contributing what we can, aren't we? Voluntarily...?

We don't always know how to rightly interpret our experiences, so we need to keep that in mind. Even Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or out of it when he went to the third heaven. And he didn't HAVE to know. And then there is the temptation to interpret our experience in a way that fits our doctrines. But if we're in the spirit and we have gotten to know the Lord in some depth, we understand that the things of the Spirit are not always so cut and dried as we might like them. Soon as we think we've got the Lord God Almighty all figured out, wrapped up and tied with a bow, along He may come and blow our mind, showing Himself God! He always reserves the right to show Himself God, to BE God, and surprise us outside the box of what we think we know. Scripture says if we think we know, we do not yet know as we ought. And, we only know in part. Who can fathom the Lord? We need to hold the things we think we know in spirit, not sealed and hardened in cement of the carnal mind, and that way it remains subject to the Lord, subject to whatever tweeking or growing we may receive. Because it's HIS truth, after all. We are not God. Our trust is in HIM, the Living God, not in our ability to know things and nail everything down.

And yet evangelicalism does that very thing. Making people declare themselves as righteous as God for a mere religious acceptance of certain verses that are usually taken out of context. The warnings of the bible are almost always ignored...and this shows a lack of respect for God and His ways. But judgment is coming.

Of course when I repeat those warnings...I get criticized and even condemned...as religious people will always do as they react to anyone who puts God out of their carnal grasp.

If we see that we only know in part...why all the religious certainty? Where is the humility? The devil has been very successful in infiltrating a religious spirit into the churches...in the guise of the Holy Spirit. People devour one another with who is more saved than the other. People reduce the words of God to what they have already experienced...no seeking is seen as good.

I have been on these threads for years and when I encourage people to seek for more...since there is so much more...I almost always get abuse.

So I see a basic dishonesty in those who claim to be saved and seated in heavenly places.....and claim to have God's own righteousness. The monkeys have taken over the zoo. Anyone with a little discernment can see that. But when a person's religious standing is questioned....oh my...the knives come out.

Is that not just a carnal religious posturing pretending to be something it isn't? (rhetorical question...of course it is! )

 

[Lizbeth]

I resist religious spirits that lie against the truth... and that puts people in a snit, since so many believe the first thought (voice) that comes into their heads

Have you no memory? All the claims of people here...like claiming to be as righteous as God Himself. Man, that sure beats those pesky Pharisees...who only thought they were maybe as righteous as Moses.

You are not getting what people are saying. And that is why you are making a wrong assumption about what we're "claiming". We are only claiming to have received a gift that we didn't earn in any way, and that not of our own that no man may boast. while we were yet sinners. We have received Christ, the new man, our renewed inner man created after Christ, His image.....which is righteous and holy....perfect. But I don't see anybody here claiming to be walking in it as much as we should be or could be 24/7. I think we understand that we need to leave the foundational things in a manner of speaking and go on to perfection. I won't try to speak for others, but I still battle the flesh as well as distractions of life in this world. I look back on my life and with sorrow have to agree with the Lord, that no, my works weren't perfect. Still straining for what lies ahead because I know I need to be better.