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What does it mean?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by janc, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. janc

    janc Member

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    The words that I speak to you I do not speak from myself, but the Father who abides in me, he does it.

    I am sure that this has something to do with John 1:1 and 14; God's spirit became flesh and this spirit spoke out of this flesh and this flesh is the Messiah, but what does this mean? Is it just the same as with the prophets who spoke in the name of God? If this were so, then the meaning of John 1:14 would not really be special because then there would be many who were the word of God before the Messiah.
    In Hebrews 1:1 it says:
    After God spoke to the fathers through the prophets in many different ways, at the end of these days He spoke to us in the Son.
    With the prophets it says THROUGH, but with the Son IN, what does this mean? If the Messiah is a separate person from the Father, does it mean that two different persons were in one body, or is the Messiah the Father himself?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if this will help or not, but the way I look at the Trinity in light of God is the same as man being made in God's image.

    Man is a triune being, just like God. We have a body (Jesus), but that is nothing without a life force (Spirit) and mind (The Father). So Jesus has the mind of the Father, and we who have been born again of the Spirit of Christ have been given the mind of Christ. God is one person, but three distinct parts all working together.

    Isaiah 9:6
    For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful Counselor (Spirit), Mighty God (all three),
    Everlasting Father (Father), Prince of Peace (Jesus).
     
  3. janc

    janc Member

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    The body contains the mind, just like the heart. Man consists of a body that is kept alive by the Spirit of God.
     
  4. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    It looks like the confusion/ deception world wide/ comes from trusting the flesh or false teachers.
     
  5. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    No, the body contains the brain. The mind, our thoughts, are invisible. The Father is also invisible. And so is the Spirit.
     
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    1. First of all Jesus of Nazareth is no longer just "the Messiah". After His resurrection He is rightly called "the Lord Jesus Christ". So you might as well start using the correct biblical terminology.

    2. Secondly the Godhead consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- ONE God yet THREE divine Persons.

    3. Thirdly the Lord Jesus Christ is the eternal and ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God. That is because He is (1) God, and (2) God the Word. Therefore He is also God the Son.

    4. Fourthly, Jesus plainly said that He was in the Father and the Father was in Him. This is a divine mystery to be accepted by faith.

    5. So now this verse (John 14:10 KJV) should be crystal clear: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    All of this simply means that while the Son is distinct from the Father, whatever the Son does (or says) is done by the Father and vice versa. The Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father. But Christ is NOT the Father, neither is He the Holy Spirit.

    1. God the Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
    2. God the Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
    3. God the Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.
     
  7. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    If they are one, then you could be wrong. John 14 is Jesus in His unglorified human state. He emptied Himself to become human, and asked the Father to give Him back the glory He had before when He was with Him.

    Besides, the Child being Jesus is said to have the names of all three.

    Isaiah 9:6
    For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful Counselor (Spirit), Mighty God (all three together),
    Everlasting Father (Father), Prince of Peace (Jesus).
     
  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Lady, you are SERIOUSLY CONFUSED. Jesus was fully God and fully Man at all times since His conception. And since Christ plainly stated that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father, that makes it perfectly clear that they are TWO divine Persons. Yet they are one in their perfect harmony and unity of purpose. They are also within ONE Godhead with the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus did set aside His glory, His majesty, and all His divine prerogatives, and humbled Himself to become Man. But He was always God and always Man at one and the same time. This must be accepted by faith or not all. This is the Mystery of God and of Christ.
     
    Joseph77 likes this.
  10. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    QUOTE="Enoch111, post: 793255, member: 7853"]Lady, you are SERIOUSLY CONFUSED. Jesus was fully God and fully Man at all times since His conception. And since Christ plainly stated that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father, that makes it perfectly clear that they are TWO divine Persons. Yet they are one in their perfect harmony and unity of purpose. They are also within ONE Godhead with the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus did set aside His glory, His majesty, and all His divine prerogatives, and humbled Himself to become Man. But He was always God and always Man at one and the same time. This must be accepted by faith or not all. This is the Mystery of God and of Christ.[/QUOTE
    ============================================================
    Amen.
     
  11. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree that Jesus was God while a man. But there were things as God that He couldn't do as a man. Those powers attributed to being God, He emptied Himself of, and asked to be restored at the end of His earthly ministry.

    How do you explain THE CHILD being called by the names of the Spirit and the Father, as well as Himself? That is not more than one PERSON, but one Child.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  12. BloodBought 1953

    BloodBought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    The only way to understand the Trinity is to be a Member Of it.....that would exclude me....lol..
     
  13. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    No, spirit did NOT literally become flesh. The idea is that God's Spirit as Jesus Christ came in the flesh of woman's womb.

    Flesh is born of flesh, spirit is born of Spirit. Our spirit inside our flesh came from God, and will go back to God (Eccl.12).
     
  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    contemplate them both as Spirit, imo, iow no "persons" at all, maybe, regardless of how much we love to "personify"
     
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    As long as your understanding doesn't become Tritheistic, I think you'll be okay.
     
  16. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    @janc , you seem very interested in the relationship between the Father, Son, and Spirit. Here's my take on it:

    The Father, Son, and Spirit are three different persons. If you want to invite them all to a figurative dinner, then you'll figuratively need to set three spots. The Son doesn't pray to Himself, nor pat Himself on the back with "this is my beloved Son" - that's the Father.

    The Father, Son, and Spirit are one God. This is through perfect unity of will, goodness, mercy, glory, etc. To follow the Spirit is to follow the Father because they'll tell you the exact same thing. To honor the Son is to honor the Father, because it's the same glory/honor. They are one.
     
  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    There is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

    No one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3). And Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

    It is written that the son that would be given would have the name of, among other things, the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6).

    It is not a 2nd God; and neither was it 1/3 of God, who descended to become a Man; it was God.

    God is defined as the Father in 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, James 3:9, and other verses.

    So if the Son is God (and He is), then He is the Father.

    You can see this upon a careful examination of John 4:23-24 as compared to John 14:7-11; that the Spirit of Jesus Christ is the Father.
     
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