What does Law mean Biblically?

[Davy]

Still on the books? Not Christian books.

In Christian society, friend. Adultery is still against the law in my state's laws, and can be used to sue. Where does that law originate? And that definitely is how Christian doctrine is too, supporting adultery as a sin against Christ...

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


Rev 2:21-22
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
KJV

Rom 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
KJV

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

If you got your type of thinking about what is and what isn't Christian Doctrine from the preacher(s) you've been listening to, then you might want to check them out in God's Word for yourself a bit more. If what you said is just your own thinking, then maybe you ought to get into The New Testament more and study.

 

[Grailhunter]

Another point is who gets to decide which one's are relevant for today, which one's are no longer required, which one's are eternal?

Relevant is a matter of perspective and your covenant with God. All the Laws in the Old Testament are relevant....to the Jews. 613 Mosaic Laws and any law outside of that pertains to the Jews. More than one covenant with the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews in the Old Testament. Christians renamed the Hebrew Bible to the Old Testament...but God's covenants are not time periods. If memory serves the Mosaic Laws are said to be forever over three hundred times, mainly because each law would usually end with forever.

Christians live under the most resent Covenant with God....the Jews still live under the Mosaic Covenant.

 

[Grailhunter]

Also, I will play along with your false doctrines of men. If we don't have to do anymore of the laws as you call them well I can go and murder, steal, commit adultery, worship pagan idols and gods.

No reason to assume this. Christians follow the Covenant of Christ. And His teachings are vastly superior to that of the Mosaics Laws, whether it be in morality or spirit. The only thing the laws accomplished was to prevent the earthly wrath of God....Their rewards and punishments occurred on earth in the physical. In the Old Covenant they were not offered heaven as a reward or hell as a punishment, and the Jews did not know of a devil and to this day still do not have a devil in their religion.

 

[Davy]

Relevant is a matter of perspective and your covenant with God. All the Laws in the Old Testament are relevant....to the Jews. 613 Mosaic Laws and any law outside of that pertains to the Jews. More than one covenant with the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews in the Old Testament. Christians renamed the Hebrew Bible to the Old Testament...but God's covenants are not time periods. If memory serves the Mosaic Laws are said to be forever over three hundred times, mainly because each law would usually end with forever.

Christians live under the most resent Covenant with God....the Jews still live under the Mosaic Covenant.

The old covenant (your "Mosaic Covenant") is DEAD, gone, over. It CANNOT SAVE.

If you think to be saved by that old covenant, then you are NOT a Christian. The ONLY Salvation in God's Plan is through the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ shed upon His cross...

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Whom ye crucified, Whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
KJV


The reason why traditional Jews, even Messianics that believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, still try to keep God's laws is because He put it in their hearts to still do it. It is part of HOW God maintains His people under Christ Jesus in Christian society too, because many of God's laws are still established in Christian society. And many of the tribe of Judah are still in charge of it, as it will remain until Christ returns, as written (Genesis 49:10).

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

SO Jesus was a Jew,

By what definition and qualification do you believe Jesus was a "Jew"?

He was not from Judea (national identity) and certainly was not a practitioner of Judaism (He and the Pharisees didn't get along too well)

 

[Grailhunter]

Still, there is a difference between God's laws that were not part of the old covenant. Jesus nailed the ordinances that were made up the old covenant to His cross. This is why we as Christians are still under the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself that was first written in Leviticus 19, etc. If that commandment was tied to the old covenant, it would mean it would no longer be in effect today under The New Covenant.

No. Christ's teaching are going to include some of the morals of the Mosaic Laws because His teachings are superior...No Law is in effect for Christians. The whole concept of laws failed. Christ's teaching are a matter of the mind and heart.

 

[Davy]

No. Christ's teaching are going to include some of the morals of the Mosaic Laws because His teachings are superior...No Law is in effect for Christians. The whole concept of laws failed. Christ's teaching are a matter of the mind and heart.

Oh yeah! You've got some Bible study catching up to do!


Old Testament:
Lev 19:18
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
KJV

New Testament:
Rom 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
KJV

Gal 5:13-14
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
KJV

 

[Grailhunter]

The old covenant (your "Mosaic Covenant") is DEAD, gone, over. It CANNOT SAVE.

If you think to be saved by that old covenant, then you are NOT a Christian. The ONLY Salvation in God's Plan is through the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ shed upon His cross...

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Whom ye crucified, Whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
KJV


The reason why traditional Jews, even Messianics that believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, still try to keep God's laws is because He put it in their hearts to still do it. It is part of HOW God maintains His people under Christ Jesus in Christian society too, because many of God's laws are still established in Christian society. And many of the tribe of Judah are still in charge of it, as it will remain until Christ returns, as written (Genesis 49:10).

This post looks like it is to me but does not relate to what I said.

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh yeah! You've got some Bible study catching up to do!


Old Testament:
Lev 19:18
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
KJV

New Testament:
Rom 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
KJV

Gal 5:13-14
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
KJV

No

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Still, there is a difference between God's laws that were not part of the old covenant. Jesus nailed the ordinances that were made up the old covenant to His cross. This is why we as Christians are still under the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself that was first written in Leviticus 19, etc. If that commandment was tied to the old covenant, it would mean it would no longer be in effect today under The New Covenant.

All the laws fall under the two Laws of Love, It's just that now when we fail to keep them, the penalty isn't death.

 

[Davy]

This post looks like it is to me but does not relate to what I said.

My post #47 does relate though.

See what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1 about God's laws. Paul showed there how those laws are still... in effect for Christians. He showed that likewise in Galatians 5 about the works of the flesh.

Let's take for example the sin of perjury. You know what that is? It is about telling a lie under oath. Today it is done with lying while under oath in a court room, and it is a punishable offense that could even lead to jail time.

So can we really say that has nothing to do with Christian doctrine? No, because Apostle Paul covered the sin of perjury in 1 Timothy 1 when speaking to Timothy. Paul revealed that many of God's laws are STILL in effect under Christ Jesus.

Therefore... if your preacher is telling you that God's laws are now dead since Jesus died on the cross, then they are lying... to you! They have been deceived by devils, or they work for the devil that say that. Why? Because it's the devil that wants those in Christ to think they can go out and do anything and it's alright, because they are in Christ Jesus! Wrong, wrong, wrong! And among 'some' Christian churches, this shows up and is a major problem in those places.

 

[Davy]

No

It's obvious that you have some Bible study needed, if you didn't realize that the CHRISTIAN doctrine to love thy neighbor as thyself ORIGINATES from Old Testament Leviticus 19. Saying no to that means you're simply in denial of God's Word about it.

 

[Davy]

All the laws fall under the two Laws of Love, It's just that now when we fail to keep them, the penalty isn't death.

Well, you're another brother that needs more Bible study, like in 1 Timothy 1 and Galatians 5 by Apostle Paul. Just what did Apostle Paul mean when he said those who do those things 'shall not inherit the Kingdom of God'???

Let's see, what is the ultimate fate of those who do NOT inherit the Kingdom of God??

Obviously, when we actually pay attention in God's Word, instead of listening to professional mouth-pieces out there which preach for money, then we learn Christ's Salvation is much more serious than once thought.

 

[Grailhunter]

See what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1 about God's laws. Paul showed there how those laws are still... in effect for Christians. He showed that likewise in Galatians 5 about the works of the flesh.

You take it out of contexts....do you want all of the scriptures where Paul is explaining that Christians are not under the law and if you look to law for justification you are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace?

Let's take for example the sin of perjury. You know what that is? It is about telling a lie under oath. Today it is done with lying while under oath in a court room, and it is a punishable offense that could even lead to jail time.

This is a good one....lying. Still a custom in the middle east...it is called trickery. The Old Religion was governed by laws so lying as far as witnessing would be a sin. But usually God sided with those that used trickery and lies in other matters.

Therefore... if your preacher is telling you that God's laws are now dead since Jesus died on the cross, then they are lying... to you! They have been deceived by devils, or they work for the devil that say that. Why? Because it's the devil that wants those in Christ to think they can go out and do anything and it's alright, because they are in Christ Jesus! Wrong, wrong, wrong! And among 'some' Christian churches, this shows up and is a major problem in those places.

The thing is everything you said here is wrong. If you want to be a Jew...go be a Jew. You cannot mix Judaism with Christianity and Christ and Paul warned of that.

 

[Grailhunter]

It's obvious that you have some Bible study needed, if you didn't realize that the CHRISTIAN doctrine to love thy neighbor as thyself ORIGINATES from Old Testament Leviticus 19. Saying no to that means you're simply in denial of God's Word about it.

I stand for Christ's Word...you preach against it. Not because of your character....pure ignorance...innocently I am sure.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well, you're another brother that needs more Bible study, like in 1 Timothy 1 and Galatians 5 by Apostle Paul. Just what did Apostle Paul mean when he said those who do those things 'shall not inherit the Kingdom of God'???

Let's see, what is the ultimate fate of those who do NOT inherit the Kingdom of God??

Obviously, when we actually pay attention in God's Word, instead of listening to professional mouth-pieces out there which preach for money, then we learn Christ's Salvation is much more serious than once thought.

Jesus taught us exactly what I stated.
He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matt. 22:37-40

You are mistaken, I am not a legalist and I stated that.
I can always use more Bible study though.

Hey, I see a guitar - do you play and what style? I was a professional singer/bass player for many years. Now I just sing and guitar.

 

[Davy]

You take it out of contexts....do you want all of the scriptures where Paul is explaining that Christians are not under the law and if you look to law for justification you are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace?

I have taken nothing of what Apostle Paul said in 1 Timothy 1 and Galatians 5 out of context. You're the one that has done that, wrongly applying ideas as if God's laws no longer exist under Christian doctrine in The New Testament.

This is a good one....lying. Still a custom in the middle east...it is called trickery. The Old Religion was governed by laws so lying as far as witnessing would be a sin. But usually God sided with those that used trickery and lies in other matters.

You're the LIAR. And your lie is against... Apostle Paul's Epistles!

1 Tim 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

I'm not going to look up the law in U.S. courts against PERJURY. That's easy to find. Do your own homework and educate yourself!

That proves that God's law against PERJURY (telling lies under oath) IS STILL APPLIED PER CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.

Evidently, you don't understand that those in Christ are dead to God's laws only IF... we are not guilty of breaking them. LIE under oath on the witness stand in a western courtroom and you will have put yourself BACK UNDER God's law against PERJURY!

 

[Davy]

I stand for Christ's Word...you preach against it. Not because of your character....pure ignorance...innocently I am sure.

You're only making up LIES. You haven't even TRIED... to prove any point that's backed up in God's Holy Writ! You know what that makes you? It makes you a bearer of FALSE WITNESS. God's rebuke will be coming, look for it.

 

[Davy]

Jesus taught us exactly what I stated.
He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matt. 22:37-40

You are mistaken, I am not a legalist and I stated that.
I can always use more Bible study though.

Hey, I see a guitar - do you play and what style? I was a professional singer/bass player for many years. Now I just sing and guitar.

I guess you are BLIND TO APOSTLE PAUL'S EPISTLES then.

Like to slice and dice God's written Word, and throw away the parts you don't like? It's obvious you have no problem with that, otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to leave the subject of 1 Timothy 1 and Galatians 5 by Apostle Paul!

 

[Davy]

Hey, I see a guitar - do you play and what style? I was a professional singer/bass player for many years. Now I just sing and guitar.

I really don't want to talk music with you, because of your insults.