What does Law mean Biblically?

[Curtis]

well said, the law is a covenant or an agreement in any nation. how those agreements are put in to place can be different (such as in righteous method, or in corruption) but once in place its the agreement of a people and its government.

biblically the Lord their God was Israel's sovereign (and still is), and therefore the Torah was an agreement between a nation of people and their sovereign, which by the way is still in effect.

The covenant law of Moses is absolutely not in effect for Christians.

Jesus put the new covenant in effect with His death, which is a better covenant founded on better promises

But the law of Moses is still in effect for those without the indwelling spirit of God in them.

 

[Ancient]

There is no single usage of the word LAW in the Bible: theres the law of Moses, there’s the law of love, there’s the law of faith, and the law of Christ found in it.

I can guarantee you though, that whenever the apostle Paul uses the terms the law, works, works of the law, and works of righteousness, he is always talking about the works of the law of Moses, as the context shows, in every instance of his usage of those terms.

Not entirely true there is another Greek word used for LAW which is dogma and it is directly related to the laws of the land for eg Raman Law or Greek law. Nothing to do with the Law of Moses. Paul also uses this usage for the word Law. A good practice to get into is not just rely on English words as the original languages can have different words for the same English word.

Paul also call the Law of Moses good and righteous in Rom 7:12 it is referred to as holy, just and good. Rom 7:16 Paul also says that he agrees with the law, that it is good. In Rom 7:22 Paul says he delights in the law. Acts 24:14 He believes all things written in the law and prophets. Believe means to act on. Rom 7:25 Paul says he serves the law of God. Rom 3:20 it is the law that reveals what sin is. If you don't know the law well you don't know what sin is.
This one is really really important Rom 3:31 Paul establishes the Law not makes it void wow!. These are all meaning Mosaic Law.

Do not let the doctrines of men deceive you. I guarantee you that Paul is not against the Mosaic Law. I have just established that many times over. Let every matter be established with 2 or 3 witnesses, well I have given you 7 and there are many more.

Shalom Friend

 

[DPMartin]

The covenant law of Moses is absolutely not in effect for Christians.

Jesus put the new covenant in effect with His death, which is a better covenant founded on better promises

But the law of Moses is still in effect for those without the indwelling spirit of God in them.

its apparent either you haven't read the Torah, or you don't understand it when you did.

 

[Brakelite]

Interesting maybe a different look at Colossians 2:14 is needed as depending on what version you are reading depends on how it is read. My understanding is that what was nailed to the cross was the charges/penalties or debt against us was nailed not the law itself. Like the speeding ticket was paid, that does not mean the law of not speeding is then never enforced.

Another point is who gets to decide which one's are relevant for today, which one's are no longer required, which one's are eternal? By what authority do they get to choose? This is the problem when we rely on what people think about the Law, we start to have our own standards. The standard is already there ie the Law or as someone posted above the Torah as a meaning. This is the Hebrew word for Law. Torah means the teachings and instructions of God. A different view of our English word LAW as in our culture LAW often has negative connotations attached with it. Law has a sense of being restricted in our culture and being restrained.

But the Hebrew word Torah has a much more guidance view, with a teaching/instruction aspect to it.

When Matt 5:17 is read in this light, Jesus Himself says I have not come to abolish the LAW (teachings and instructions of God). Also before I get a barrage of responses please study the word fulfilled which is at the end of this same verse.

Blessings

I would suggest that the law, Torah, is a protective hedge about God's people, eg Mark 12:1. Isaiah 58 speaks of those of God's people who are repairers of the breech; restorers of paths to dwell in. These are I believe those who uphold God's laws making them honorable. Jesus of course was the finest example of a repairman.

 

[Ancient]

its apparent either you haven't read the Torah, or you don't understand it when you did.

Ok I am sorry you feel this way. Be careful of making assumptions. I am a Torah teacher, and have been for many years now.

Shalom Friend

 

[DPMartin]

Ok I am sorry you feel this way. Be careful of making assumptions. I am a Torah teacher, and have been for many years now.

Shalom Friend

yea, right, sure you are, since when did you think i would believe that statement? and if that's true then read it again, Israel is still under contract with the Lord God of Israel.
and also:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


which is a pretty blanket statement seeing heaven and earth hasn't passed yet.

also even the advocate of free from the law says

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


so the Torah is not irrelevant

 

[Curtis]

its apparent either you haven't read the Torah, or you don't understand it when you did.

Except I back up my claims. The law hasn’t passed away, it’s still in effect - for the unconverted - not for born again Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Christians are dead to the law, and now are married to Jesus instead of the law, and have been DELIVERED FROM the law:


Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law-by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

(read 2 Corinthians 3 for more about the letter (which kills) in the old covenant vs the spirit that brings life, in the new).

The law doesn’t apply to Christians, just to the unconverted, because the law is NOT MEANT for a RIGHTEOUS MAN, but for the UNGODLY and for MURDERERS:


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderersof fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Christians are the righteousness of God in Christ, thus the law is null and void for us, who are now righteous by faith, not by works of the law of Moses.


Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


And this agrees:


Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


Thus it hasn’t passed away, it just doesn’t apply to those born again, since it’s only meant for the ungodly and murderers, etc. 1 Tim 1:9 above.


And BEFORE faith came, we were imprisoned by the law, locked up by it until the coming of Christ, and now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian:


Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.


Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit d the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Put the 3 most relevant verses together in the above passage:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This is what you just don’t get - Christians don’t need an external law with the death penalty for breaking, if they are led by the indwelling spirit, and bear the fruit of the spirit, listed above - we have died to the law.

This doesn’t exempt those who don’t let the Spirit lead them, who walk after their flesh, and not after the spirit - something Paul warned us against doing.

ANY QUESTIONS?

Baruch HaShem HaMaschiach Y’eshua

 

[Ancient]

Ok I am sorry you feel this way. Be careful of making assumptions. I am a Torah teacher, and have been for many years now.

Shalom Friend

oops please accept my sincere apologies I thought your comment was directed to me and it was made to another member how embarrassing. Lessoned learned read who the reply is to. Again please forgive me and accept my apologies.

Shalom

 

[Ancient]

Except I back up my claims. The law hasn’t passed away, it’s still in effect - for the unconverted - not for born again Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Christians are dead to the law, and now are married to Jesus instead of the law, and have been DELIVERED FROM the law:


Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law-by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

(read 2 Corinthians 3 for more about the letter (which kills) in the old covenant vs the spirit that brings life, in the new).

The law doesn’t apply to Christians, just to the unconverted, because the law is NOT MEANT for a RIGHTEOUS MAN, but for the UNGODLY and for MURDERERS:


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderersof fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Christians are the righteousness of God in Christ, thus the law is null and void for us, who are now righteous by faith, not by works of the law of Moses.


Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


And this agrees:


Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


Thus it hasn’t passed away, it just doesn’t apply to those born again, since it’s only meant for the ungodly and murderers, etc. 1 Tim 1:9 above.


And BEFORE faith came, we were imprisoned by the law, locked up by it until the coming of Christ, and now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian:


Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.


Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit d the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Put the 3 most relevant verses together in the above passage:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This is what you just don’t get - Christians don’t need an external law with the death penalty for breaking, if they are led by the indwelling spirit, and bear the fruit of the spirit, listed above - we have died to the law.

This doesn’t exempt those who don’t let the Spirit lead them, who walk after their flesh, and not after the spirit - something Paul warned us against doing.

ANY QUESTIONS?

Baruch HaShem HaMaschiach Y’eshua

I would say delivered delivered from the penalty of the Law which is death. Hence eternal life Praise Yahweh.

Shalom

 

[Curtis]

I would say delivered delivered from the penalty of the Law which is death. Hence eternal life Praise Yahweh.

Shalom

Jesus nailed the law of commandments contained in ordnance’s that were against us, to His cross, taking it out of the way.

That was the law of Moses covenant, given on mount Sinai, the one that is bondage and slavery, per Paul, in Galatians 4:21-31 - and Peter called a yoke of bondage, in Acts 15.

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Brakelite]

Jesus nailed the law of commandments contained in ordnance’s that were against us, to His cross, taking it out of the way.

That was the law of Moses covenant, given on mount Sinai, the one that is bondage and slavery, per Paul, in Galatians 4:21-31 - and Peter called a yoke of bondage, in Acts 15.

Shalom Aleichem

Yep, I guess that's why the Lord said in Exodus 20...
KJV Exodus 20:2
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Now hear this law and my commandments which will bring you into even greater and more severe bondage... Oh wait.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Interesting maybe a different look at Colossians 2:14 is needed as depending on what version you are reading depends on how it is read. My understanding is that what was nailed to the cross was the charges/penalties or debt against us was nailed not the law itself. Like the speeding ticket was paid, that does not mean the law of not speeding is then never enforced.

So having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that WAS against us, and contrary to us, taking it out of the way, what debt was due because of the law is reckoned as paid.

Quote from Believer's Bible Commentary:
As Meyer put it: “By the death of Christ on the cross, the law which condemned men lost its penal authority, inasmuch as Christ by His death endured for man the curse of the law and became the end of the law.” Kelly summarizes neatly: “The law is not dead, but we have died to it.”

Col 2:14-15 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

 

[DPMartin]

Except I back up my claims. The law hasn’t passed away, it’s still in effect - for the unconverted - not for born again Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Christians are dead to the law, and now are married to Jesus instead of the law, and have been DELIVERED FROM the law:


Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law-by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

(read 2 Corinthians 3 for more about the letter (which kills) in the old covenant vs the spirit that brings life, in the new).

The law doesn’t apply to Christians, just to the unconverted, because the law is NOT MEANT for a RIGHTEOUS MAN, but for the UNGODLY and for MURDERERS:


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderersof fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Christians are the righteousness of God in Christ, thus the law is null and void for us, who are now righteous by faith, not by works of the law of Moses.


Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


And this agrees:


Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


Thus it hasn’t passed away, it just doesn’t apply to those born again, since it’s only meant for the ungodly and murderers, etc. 1 Tim 1:9 above.


And BEFORE faith came, we were imprisoned by the law, locked up by it until the coming of Christ, and now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian:


Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.


Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit d the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Put the 3 most relevant verses together in the above passage:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This is what you just don’t get - Christians don’t need an external law with the death penalty for breaking, if they are led by the indwelling spirit, and bear the fruit of the spirit, listed above - we have died to the law.

This doesn’t exempt those who don’t let the Spirit lead them, who walk after their flesh, and not after the spirit - something Paul warned us against doing.

ANY QUESTIONS?

Baruch HaShem HaMaschiach Y’eshua

nope the Jews (without Jesus) walk under the law at the hand of Moses, and the gentile are under the covenant at the garden and the covenant with Noah (that are without Jesus) which yes technically is written in the Torah but isn't the rest as with Abraham and the Children of Israel. The born again walk in the fulfillment of the law via receiving the Life of Christ Jesus in the Holy Spirit, so both ways the law is still there. the Lord God said He would write His commandments in their hearts (meaning the born again). that's something that is at the center of the life of the born again.

 

[Curtis]

nope the Jews (without Jesus) walk under the law at the hand of Moses, and the gentile are under the covenant at the garden and the covenant with Noah (that are without Jesus) which yes technically is written in the Torah but isn't the rest as with Abraham and the Children of Israel. The born again walk in the fulfillment of the law via receiving the Life of Christ Jesus in the Holy Spirit, so both ways the law is still there. the Lord God said He would write His commandments in their hearts (meaning the born again). that's something that is at the center of the life of the born again.

That is absolutely wrong.

The first covenant given to Israel IS DONE, over, finished, replaced by THE NEW covenant, founded on better promises, per Jeremiah 31, that Messiah made with the Houses of Israel and Judah - and Jesus put it in effect at His death, and He is mediating that new covenant right now. Hebrews 8 and 9.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.


Testament and covenant are the same, BTW - our Bible has a new covenant and old covenant sections.

Gentiles get grated onto the Israel olive tree - as wild branches grafted onto the tree along with the natural branches - with Jesus Christ being the trunk and roots of the tree, Romans 11, we and enter into their new covenant with them.

Now as to the false doctrine that nothing Jesus taught applies to the church, because of the claim that Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews, but Paul preached the gospel of grace to us - the truth is there is only ONE gospel of the kingdom of Christ and of God, offered first to the Jew, then to the gentile:


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


All that Jesus taught applies to us, as proven by Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, preaching the kingdom:


Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the KINGDOM of God, shall see my face no more.


Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

Act 28:31 Preaching the KINGDOM of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Paul preached the same exact thing to both the Jews and the Greeks/gentiles- there was no difference:

Act 20:20 Andhow I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you,but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


There is only one gospel - not a kingdom gospel and a gospel of grace. But one gospel of the kingdom of God and Christ.

All believers in Jesus will be together with Him,

 

[Davy]

Yes the animal sacrifices are finished in Jesus He is the final sacrifice. You are missing so many other points, Malachi 3:6 God Himself says He never changes, Heb 13:8 Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, that was written 2,000 yrs ago. You need to be able to reconcile these my friend. Sabbaths were never stopped after the resurrection, as we know Paul and the other apostles observed Sabbaths and the feast.

Reconcile what from the old covenant? No, it is DEAD. ONLY those in The New Covenant Jesus Christ will be saved.

But is there a difference between many of God's laws and the old covenant? Yes, certainly. The commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself actually is written in Leviticus 19, and that is a major Christian doctrine. In 1 Timothy 1, Apostle Paul showed several sins that were first confirmed against God's laws in The Old Testament Books, and how they are still active per Christian doctrine. So you really have no need to lecture me on this difference.

As for holding to sabbath worship, Christian Churches do that every Sunday. If you think that must be done a 'certain day', then you go against what Apostle Paul taught in Colossians 2:16, which is CHRISTIAN doctrine.

You also fail to understand prophecy Zech 14:16-21 this has not happened yet as it clearly teaches about observing the Feast of Tabernacles are those from among the nations and it even mentions sacrifices. Hmmm. SO what you are saying Jesus and His disciples observed all the feasts and Sabbaths then He died so they don't do it anymore than Jesus returns and they do them again? Doesn't line up with the God I serve who says more than twice He doesn't change.

Nah, I don't fail to understand the Zechariah 14 prophecies, that they have not happened yet. The first of that Chapter begins about Christ's 2nd coming on the "day of the Lord", so what's hard about that? That easily points to Christ's future return which is still expecting today! So how could you ever say I don't understand that? You must think you're talking to someone else.

Lord Jesus is the one Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time, as written. That means all sacrifice now represent our love to The Father, just as Apostle Paul said (Hebrews 13:15). That's what those sacrifices in Zechariah 14 are about. Same with Ezekiel 44.

There was more than 1 tithe of 10% in the Bible there were several tithes. Church doctrine of man being revealed here.

Also, I will play along with your false doctrines of men. If we don't have to do anymore of the laws as you call them well I can go and murder, steal, commit adultery, worship pagan idols and gods. Your theology has so many holes in it and so narrowed minded you can look through a keyhole with both eyes. You need to be able to reconcile all the points made with your doctrine.

Why do you keep making up LIES against me with claims of things I DID NOT SAY???

Clearly, you don't like what I have revealed from Scripture, because maybe you're following Jewish traditions instead Christian doctrine? How about that?

 

[Ancient]

Nah, I don't fail to understand the Zechariah 14 prophecies, that they have not happened yet. The first of that Chapter begins about Christ's 2nd coming on the "day of the Lord", so what's hard about that? That easily points to Christ's future return which is still expecting today! So how could you ever say I don't understand that? You must think you're talking to someone else.

So no mention that all nations will be going up to Jerusalem to observe and keep the feast of Tabernacles as commanded in Lev 23? So, you are saying that the old covenant is dead! But there are many things that are written in the OT that will be observed and taught in the new millennium after Messiah's return clearly the feast of tabernacles is one of those.

No I am not making up lies about what you have said.

maybe you're following Jewish traditions instead Christian doctrine? How about that?

SO Jesus was a Jew, so was Paul, Peter, John, And all the other disciples and apostles. I don't mind following Jewish beliefs as these were all Jewish. May as well throw out most of the NT as it quotes directly from the OT you know what you call those Jewish traditions. I am happy to follow the Jewish Messiah, and you know the Jewish Paul who wrote most of the NT. No problems here. I am not happy to follow Jewish traditions as in the traditions of the elders and all the extra non scriptural laws that they introduced. But this is not the OT.

To say that the OT is dead and no longer valid is a serious claim as it is implying that God makes mistakes. Also, our Messiah is also that very word the whole OT, so He is dead and invalid as well? Messiah is the Word of God this is outlined in John 1:1. When this was said and proclaimed the NT was not even written.

Reconcile what from the old covenant? No, it is DEAD. ONLY those in The New Covenant Jesus Christ will be saved.

So Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joshua, King David, Samuel, Isaiah, Jerimiah, Ezekiel on and on and on are not saved? Hang on a minute I thought Yeshua/Jesus is the judge and not us! Yahweh have mercy on us.

Shalom Friend

 

[Davy]

So no mention that all nations will be going up to Jerusalem to observe and keep the feast of Tabernacles as commanded in Lev 23? So, you are saying that the old covenant is dead! But there are many things that are written in the OT that will be observed and taught in the new millennium after Messiah's return clearly the feast of tabernacles is one of those.

No I am not making up lies about what you have said.



SO Jesus was a Jew, so was Paul, Peter, John, And all the other disciples and apostles. I don't mind following Jewish beliefs as these were all Jewish. May as well throw out most of the NT as it quotes directly from the OT you know what you call those Jewish traditions. I am happy to follow the Jewish Messiah, and you know the Jewish Paul who wrote most of the NT. No problems here. I am not happy to follow Jewish traditions as in the traditions of the elders and all the extra non scriptural laws that they introduced. But this is not the OT.

To say that the OT is dead and no longer valid is a serious claim as it is implying that God makes mistakes. Also, our Messiah is also that very word the whole OT, so He is dead and invalid as well? Messiah is the Word of God this is outlined in John 1:1. When this was said and proclaimed the NT was not even written.



So Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joshua, King David, Samuel, Isaiah, Jerimiah, Ezekiel on and on and on are not saved? Hang on a minute I thought Yeshua/Jesus is the judge and not us! Yahweh have mercy on us.

Shalom Friend

So no mention that all nations will be going up to Jerusalem to observe and keep the feast of Tabernacles as commanded in Lev 23? So, you are saying that the old covenant is dead! But there are many things that are written in the OT that will be observed and taught in the new millennium after Messiah's return clearly the feast of tabernacles is one of those.

No I am not making up lies about what you have said.



SO Jesus was a Jew, so was Paul, Peter, John, And all the other disciples and apostles. I don't mind following Jewish beliefs as these were all Jewish. May as well throw out most of the NT as it quotes directly from the OT you know what you call those Jewish traditions. I am happy to follow the Jewish Messiah, and you know the Jewish Paul who wrote most of the NT. No problems here. I am not happy to follow Jewish traditions as in the traditions of the elders and all the extra non scriptural laws that they introduced. But this is not the OT.

To say that the OT is dead and no longer valid is a serious claim as it is implying that God makes mistakes. Also, our Messiah is also that very word the whole OT, so He is dead and invalid as well? Messiah is the Word of God this is outlined in John 1:1. When this was said and proclaimed the NT was not even written.

So Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joshua, King David, Samuel, Isaiah, Jerimiah, Ezekiel on and on and on are not saved? Hang on a minute I thought Yeshua/Jesus is the judge and not us! Yahweh have mercy on us.

Shalom Friend

Nope, you're just following the Jew's religion and won't admit it.

The old covenant is DEAD, yet you confuse the portion of God's laws that NEVER WERE PART OF THE old covenant with His laws that are still in effect today, and that will be in effect when Jesus returns. And you say I'm... pushing false doctrine? You hypocrite, clean the beam from your own eye.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Strongs H8451
תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219

Num 15:15-16 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourns with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as you are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. (16) One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourns with you.

The law in these verses is the Mosaic Law. as given to Moses by God.

Law of Moses - Wikipedia

The content of the Law is spread among the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, and then reiterated and added to in Deuteronomy. This includes:

• The Ten Commandments
• Moral laws – on murder, theft, honesty, adultery, etc.
• Social laws – on property, inheritance, marriage and divorce.
• Food laws – on what is clean and unclean, on cooking and storing food.
• Purity laws – on menstruation, seminal emissions, skin disease and mildew, etc.
• Feasts – the Day of Atonement, Passover, Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks etc.
• Sacrifices and offerings – the sin offering, burnt offering, whole offering, heave offering, Passover sacrifice, meal offering, wave offering, peace offering, drink offering, thank offering, dough offering, incense offering, red heifer, scapegoat, first fruits, etc.
• Instructions for the priesthood and the high priest, including tithes.
• Instructions regarding the Tabernacle, and which were later applied to the Temple in Jerusalem, including those concerning the Holy of Holies containing the Ark of the Covenant (in which were the tablets of the law, Aaron's rod, the manna). Instructions and for the construction of various altars.
• Forward looking instructions for time when Israel would demand a king.

Impressive, can't get much more definitive unless you quoted the entire Torah.

 

[Davy]

Impressive, can't get much more definitive unless you quoted the entire Torah.

Still, there is a difference between God's laws that were not part of the old covenant. Jesus nailed the ordinances that were made up the old covenant to His cross. This is why we as Christians are still under the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself that was first written in Leviticus 19, etc. If that commandment was tied to the old covenant, it would mean it would no longer be in effect today under The New Covenant.

 

[Grailhunter]

There's still many laws given through Moses that are still on the books in western society today.

Still on the books? Not Christian books.