What Does the Bible Really Teach About Jesus and his Relationship with his Father ?

[Aunty Jane]

A Jesus/Micheal question that JW won't/can't answer with verses

Perhaps you should understand the difference between a doctrine and a belief.

In the Scriptures Michael is called “the Great Prince” because he is “the Archangel” and there is only one.
Jesus is also called a Prince. Michael is the commander of the angelic forces (Rev 12:7) and is spoken of in Scripture as only one of two angels who are named in the Bible. Gabriel is the other.

No one really knows the name that Jesus bore before he became Jesus the man on earth....but we believe that he could well be Michael in a different role, with a different name.
Before his human birth, Jesus existed as a spirit son of God...his “only begotten” whom Paul calls “the firstborn of ALL creation. (Col 1:15)

Jesus too is said to command the angels....(Matt 25:31-32) and when he returns as judge, Paul says that he has the voice of an archangel. (1 Thess 4:16) So because this is suggested in Scripture and we hold no impediment to Jesus being Michael before his earthly mission, it will be interesting to see what his “new name” will be. Jesus has several. Jehovah has only one. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)

The pre-human Jesus was said to be at God’s right hand, but nowhere is the Holy Spirit said to be on his left.
Also it is plain to see in John 17:3 that we need to “know the only true God AND the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. There is no mention of the third and supposedly equal part of God.

The apostles collectively identified who their “one God” was......”the Father” and their “one Lord” was Jesus Christ, but again no third person was mentioned. (1 Cor 8:5-6)

It’s funny how people can criticize us for holding a belief that is suggested in Scripture, but then cling to a doctrine that is nowhere even mentioned by Jesus or his apostles.

Why does Christ allow worship yet angel (eg Michael) is forbidden ?

Jesus never allowed worship of himself....you are another one who needs to study original language words.
See post #59 .

Jesus rebukes Satan yet Michael (Jude 1:9 ) dared not.

Jude 9....
“But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah* rebuke you.”

Please note the time frame....disputing with the devil over Moses body.....puts that back in the early days of ancient Israel when Moses was told that he would not enter the Promised Land.
God did not allow Moses body to be buried by anyone, so he quietly did that himself.
It was not time to rebuke the devil...that was way into the future.

 

[rvmb]

Perhaps you should understand the difference between a doctrine and a belief.

In the Scriptures Michael is called “the Great Prince” because he is “the Archangel” and there is only one.
Jesus is also called a Prince. Michael is the commander of the angelic forces (Rev 12:7) and is spoken of in Scripture as only one of two angels who are named in the Bible. Gabriel is the other.

No one really knows the name that Jesus bore before he became Jesus the man on earth....but we believe that he could well be Michael in a different role, with a different name.
Before his human birth, Jesus existed as a spirit son of God...his “only begotten” whom Paul calls “the firstborn of ALL creation. (Col 1:15)

Jesus too is said to command the angels....(Matt 25:31-32) and when he returns as judge, Paul says that he has the voice of an archangel. (1 Thess 3:16) So because this is suggested in Scripture and we hold no impediment to Jesus being Michael before his earthly mission, it will be interesting to see what his “new name” will be. Jesus has several. Jehovah has only one. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)

The pre-human Jesus was said to be at God’s right hand, but nowhere is the Holy Spirit said to be on his left.
Also it is plain to see in John 17:3 that we need to “know the only true God AND the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. There is no mention of the third and supposedly equal part of God.

The apostles collectively identified who their “one God” was......”the Father” and their “one Lord” was Jesus Christ, but again no third person was mentioned. (1 Cor 8:5-6)

It’s funny how people can criticize us for holding a belief that is suggested in Scripture, but then cling to a doctrine that is nowhere even mentioned by Jesus or his apostles.


Jesus never allowed worship of himself....you are another one who needs to study original language words.
See post #59 .


Jude 9....
“But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah* rebuke you.”

Please note the time frame....disputing with the devil over Moses body.....puts that back in the early days of ancient Israel when Moses was told that he would not enter the Promised Land.
God did not allow Moses body to be buried by anyone, so he quietly did that himself.
It was not time to rebuke the devil...that was way into the future.

.
""Jesus never allowed worship of himself....you are another one who needs to study original language words.""

Matt 28:9-10

 

[Jack]

Perhaps you should understand the difference between a doctrine and a belief.

In the Scriptures Michael is called “the Great Prince” because he is “the Archangel” and there is only one.
Jesus is also called a Prince. Michael is the commander of the angelic forces (Rev 12:7) and is spoken of in Scripture as only one of two angels who are named in the Bible. Gabriel is the other.

No one really knows the name that Jesus bore before he became Jesus the man on earth....but we believe that he could well be Michael in a different role, with a different name.
Before his human birth, Jesus existed as a spirit son of God...his “only begotten” whom Paul calls “the firstborn of ALL creation. (Col 1:15)

Jesus too is said to command the angels....(Matt 25:31-32) and when he returns as judge, Paul says that he has the voice of an archangel. (1 Thess 3:16) So because this is suggested in Scripture and we hold no impediment to Jesus being Michael before his earthly mission, it will be interesting to see what his “new name” will be. Jesus has several. Jehovah has only one. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)

The pre-human Jesus was said to be at God’s right hand, but nowhere is the Holy Spirit said to be on his left.
Also it is plain to see in John 17:3 that we need to “know the only true God AND the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. There is no mention of the third and supposedly equal part of God.

The apostles collectively identified who their “one God” was......”the Father” and their “one Lord” was Jesus Christ, but again no third person was mentioned. (1 Cor 8:5-6)

It’s funny how people can criticize us for holding a belief that is suggested in Scripture, but then cling to a doctrine that is nowhere even mentioned by Jesus or his apostles.


Jesus never allowed worship of himself....you are another one who needs to study original language words.
See post #59 .


Jude 9....
“But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah* rebuke you.”

Please note the time frame....disputing with the devil over Moses body.....puts that back in the early days of ancient Israel when Moses was told that he would not enter the Promised Land.
God did not allow Moses body to be buried by anyone, so he quietly did that himself.
It was not time to rebuke the devil...that was way into the future.

Where does the Bible say Michael shed his blood for our sins? Died for us?

Aunty only knows what the WatchTower told her! ZERO!

 

[rvmb]

Perhaps you should understand the difference between a doctrine and a belief.

In the Scriptures Michael is called “the Great Prince” because he is “the Archangel” and there is only one.
Jesus is also called a Prince. Michael is the commander of the angelic forces (Rev 12:7) and is spoken of in Scripture as only one of two angels who are named in the Bible. Gabriel is the other.

No one really knows the name that Jesus bore before he became Jesus the man on earth....but we believe that he could well be Michael in a different role, with a different name.
Before his human birth, Jesus existed as a spirit son of God...his “only begotten” whom Paul calls “the firstborn of ALL creation. (Col 1:15)

Jesus too is said to command the angels....(Matt 25:31-32) and when he returns as judge, Paul says that he has the voice of an archangel. (1 Thess 3:16) So because this is suggested in Scripture and we hold no impediment to Jesus being Michael before his earthly mission, it will be interesting to see what his “new name” will be. Jesus has several. Jehovah has only one. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)

The pre-human Jesus was said to be at God’s right hand, but nowhere is the Holy Spirit said to be on his left.
Also it is plain to see in John 17:3 that we need to “know the only true God AND the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. There is no mention of the third and supposedly equal part of God.

The apostles collectively identified who their “one God” was......”the Father” and their “one Lord” was Jesus Christ, but again no third person was mentioned. (1 Cor 8:5-6)

It’s funny how people can criticize us for holding a belief that is suggested in Scripture, but then cling to a doctrine that is nowhere even mentioned by Jesus or his apostles.


Jesus never allowed worship of himself....you are another one who needs to study original language words.
See post #59 .


Jude 9....
“But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah* rebuke you.”

Please note the time frame....disputing with the devil over Moses body.....puts that back in the early days of ancient Israel when Moses was told that he would not enter the Promised Land.
God did not allow Moses body to be buried by anyone, so he quietly did that himself.
It was not time to rebuke the devil...that was way into the future.

Perhaps you should understand the difference between a doctrine and a belief.

In the Scriptures Michael is called “the Great Prince” because he is “the Archangel” and there is only one.
Jesus is also called a Prince. Michael is the commander of the angelic forces (Rev 12:7) and is spoken of in Scripture as only one of two angels who are named in the Bible. Gabriel is the other.

No one really knows the name that Jesus bore before he became Jesus the man on earth....but we believe that he could well be Michael in a different role, with a different name.
Before his human birth, Jesus existed as a spirit son of God...his “only begotten” whom Paul calls “the firstborn of ALL creation. (Col 1:15)

Jesus too is said to command the angels....(Matt 25:31-32) and when he returns as judge, Paul says that he has the voice of an archangel. (1 Thess 3:16) So because this is suggested in Scripture and we hold no impediment to Jesus being Michael before his earthly mission, it will be interesting to see what his “new name” will be. Jesus has several. Jehovah has only one. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)

The pre-human Jesus was said to be at God’s right hand, but nowhere is the Holy Spirit said to be on his left.
Also it is plain to see in John 17:3 that we need to “know the only true God AND the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. There is no mention of the third and supposedly equal part of God.

The apostles collectively identified who their “one God” was......”the Father” and their “one Lord” was Jesus Christ, but again no third person was mentioned. (1 Cor 8:5-6)

It’s funny how people can criticize us for holding a belief that is suggested in Scripture, but then cling to a doctrine that is nowhere even mentioned by Jesus or his apostles.


Jesus never allowed worship of himself....you are another one who needs to study original language words.
See post #59 .


Jude 9....
“But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah* rebuke you.”

Please note the time frame....disputing with the devil over Moses body.....puts that back in the early days of ancient Israel when Moses was told that he would not enter the Promised Land.
God did not allow Moses body to be buried by anyone, so he quietly did that himself.
It was not time to rebuke the devil...that was way into the future.

""In the Scriptures Michael is called “the Great
Dan 12:1 great prince NOT Great Prince
Dan 10:13 Michael, one of the chief princes, << one of many
Dan 10:21 Michael your prince
Isa9:6 Prince of peace - Christ
Dan 9:25 Messiah the Prince - Christ
Dan8:25 Prince of princes - Christ
Acts 3:15 Prince of life - Christ
Acts 5:31 Prince and Saviour - Christ
Rev 1:15 Prince of the kings - Christ

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matt 28:9-10

Did you read the response I gave you concerning the word “proskyneō”......erroneously translated as “worship” in places where it shouldn’t be.

According to Strongs, this word means....

1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
   1. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank.

Can you tell me where it says in the Bible to fall down and worship God in this manner? The truth is that doing so to show obeisance to humans was a common practice....but I can’t find any requirement to do so in worshipping God.

So before you go quoting Scripture that you obviously haven’t studied, please do your homework because what is translated is the work of men....see what the word meant in its original language and see for yourself that it doesn’t mean that Jesus was worshipped.

""In the Scriptures Michael is called “the Great
Dan 12:1 great prince NOT Great Prince
Dan 10:13 Michael, one of the chief princes, << one of many
Dan 10:21 Michael your prince
Isa9:6 Prince of peace - Christ
Dan 9:25 Messiah the Prince - Christ
Dan8:25 Prince of princes - Christ
Acts 3:15 Prince of life - Christ
Acts 5:31 Prince and Saviour - Christ
Rev 1:15 Prince of the kings - Christ

Can you just calm yourself down for a moment and actually read what I wrote.....I said that it is our belief concerning Michael, and because there is no direct statement concerning it, we don’t classify it as doctrine...it’s a belief we hold and not one we force on anyone. You can believe whatever you wish about Jesus....we hold to beliefs that are biblical and we study Scripture carefully and thoroughly.

The one sure thing we know is that there is not a single statement from either God or his Christ that they are equal parts of one God with the Holy Spirit.....the list you provided originally, does not support your argument, which with scrutiny, and deeper study, leads to a very different conclusion.

 

[rvmb]

Did you read the response I gave you concerning the word “proskyneō”......erroneously translated as “worship” in places where it shouldn’t be.

According to Strongs, this word means....

1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
   1. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank.

Can you tell me where it says in the Bible to fall down and worship God in this manner? The truth is that doing so to show obeisance to humans was a common practice....but I can’t find any requirement to do so in worshipping God.

So before you go quoting Scripture that you obviously haven’t studied, please do your homework because what is translated is the work of men....see what the word meant in its original language and see for yourself that it doesn’t mean that Jesus was worshipped.


Can you just calm yourself down for a moment and actually read what I wrote.....I said that it is our belief concerning Michael, and because there is no direct statement concerning it, we don’t classify it as doctrine...it’s a belief we hold and not one we force on anyone. You can believe whatever you wish about Jesus....we hold to beliefs that are biblical and we study Scripture carefully and thoroughly.

The one sure thing we know is that there is not a single statement from either God or his Christ that they are equal parts of one God with the Holy Spirit.....the list you provided originally, does not support your argument, which with scrutiny, and deeper study, leads to a very different conclusion.

I read & believe Scripture which you are not.
The listed verses I supplied teach that Michael is not Jesus which of course goes against JW teaching.
John 1:1 teaches The Word was God, JW teaches a god is another example of JW twisting Scripture to suit itself.

CLA LIT CAT ARA STR Modern Translations New International Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. New Living Translation In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. English Standard Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Berean Study Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. New American Standard Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. NASB 1995 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. NASB 1977 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Amplified Bible In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. Christian Standard Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Holman Christian Standard Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Contemporary English Version In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God. Good News Translation In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God. GOD'S WORD® Translation In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. International Standard Version In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. NET Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. Classic Translations King James Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. New King James Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. King James 2000 Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. New Heart English Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. World English Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. American King James Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. American Standard Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. A Faithful Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Darby Bible Translation In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. English Revised Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Webster's Bible Translation In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Early Modern Geneva Bible of 1587 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. Bishops' Bible of 1568 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. Coverdale Bible of 1535 In the begynnynge was the worde, and the worde was with God, and God was ye worde. Tyndale Bible of 1526 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. Literal Translations Literal Standard Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; Berean Literal Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Young's Literal Translation In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; Smith's Literal Translation In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. Literal Emphasis Translation In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. Catholic Translations Douay-Rheims Bible IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Catholic Public Domain Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. Translations from Aramaic Aramaic Bible in Plain English In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God. Lamsa Bible THE Word was in the beginning, and that very Word was with God, and God was that Word. NT Translations Anderson New Testament IN the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD, was with God, and the WORD was God. Godbey New Testament In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Haweis New Testament IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ​

 

[Jack]

Did you read the response I gave you concerning the word “proskyneō”......erroneously translated as “worship” in places where it shouldn’t be.

According to Strongs, this word means....

1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
   1. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank.

Can you tell me where it says in the Bible to fall down and worship God in this manner? The truth is that doing so to show obeisance to humans was a common practice....but I can’t find any requirement to do so in worshipping God.

So before you go quoting Scripture that you obviously haven’t studied, please do your homework because what is translated is the work of men....see what the word meant in its original language and see for yourself that it doesn’t mean that Jesus was worshipped.


Can you just calm yourself down for a moment and actually read what I wrote.....I said that it is our belief concerning Michael, and because there is no direct statement concerning it, we don’t classify it as doctrine...it’s a belief we hold and not one we force on anyone. You can believe whatever you wish about Jesus....we hold to beliefs that are biblical and we study Scripture carefully and thoroughly.

The one sure thing we know is that there is not a single statement from either God or his Christ that they are equal parts of one God with the Holy Spirit.....the list you provided originally, does not support your argument, which with scrutiny, and deeper study, leads to a very different conclusion.

Aunty doesn't like Biblical FACTS:

Where does the Bible say Michael shed his blood for our sins? Died for us?

It doesn't!

 

[Aunty Jane]

@rvmb Again look at the Greek, and see that trinitarian translations ignore the definite article that is clearly visible in the Greek text.

John 1:1​

Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament​

“1 In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros ·ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.”​

Here it is...word for word....you can see that the definite article, “ho” is repeated in all the places where it is translated as “the”......except one.

There were no upper and lower case letters in Greek, but because there was a trinitarian agenda at work in the translation, two errors changed the entire meaning of that verse. There should be no capital “G” for the second “theos”.

“Theos” means ‘any god, goddess or divine personage’, so calling Jesus “theos” is not calling him Yahweh, but simply identifying him as a divine personage or one authorized by God to represent him.
If the definite article had been used in the second instance, like the first, then that would have identified Jesus as Yahweh.....it doesn’t.

Only Yahweh is identified by the definite article....Jesus never is, even though the word “theos” is applied to angels, human judges and even satan.....

Another mistranslation is clearly seen in John 10:31-36...
Again word for word, as it was written....

The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noblekalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; ·kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.” 34 Jesus Iēsous answered apokrinomai the mautos, ·ho “Is it eimi not ou written graphō in en ·ho your hymeis law nomos, ‘Iegō said legō, you are eimi gods theos’? 35 If ei the scripture called legō them ekeinos ‘gods theos’ to pros whom hos the ho word logos of ho God theos came ginomai—and kai scripture graphē cannot ou dynamai be annulled lyō ·ho— 36 do legō you hymeis say legō regarding the one whom hos the ho Father patēr consecrated hagiazō and kai sent apostellō into eis the ho world kosmos, ‘You are blaspheming blasphēmeō,’ because hoti I said legō, ‘I am eimi the Son hyios of ho God theos’?

Note the use of the lower case “g” for “gods”, but the capitalisation when if fits the trinity?
The Jews were not saying that Jesus was claiming to be “ho theos” but simply “theos”....claiming that God was his Father (John 5:18).....when he clearly stated that he was “the son of ho theos” (the Son of Yahweh)

Unless you do original language word studies, you are at the mercy of biased translators.
Every one of those translations you listed follows the same errors......do you know why?
Majority view prevails and makes those who disagree look like apostates....but Jesus said that it is the “few” not the “many” who are on the road to life. (Matt 7:13-14) Satan has the “many”....Jesus has the “few”.

Are you happy with that situation? Or are you willing to take the blinkers off and see what is actually written in the original language of the NT?

It’s confronting to many people, born and raised with a doctrine that has prevailed in Christendom for centuries....but it is an ancient lie....still believed by the majority......does that make it correct? What does the evidence reveal?

 

[Jack]

Michael is Aunty's savior. Jesus is mine!

 

[Jack]

@rvmb Again look at the Greek, and see that trinitarian translations ignore the definite article that is clearly visible in the Greek text.

John 1:1​

Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament​

“1 In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros ·ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.”​

Here it is...word for word....you can see that the definite article, “ho” is repeated in all the places where it is translated as “the”......except one.

There were no upper and lower case letters in Greek, but because there was a trinitarian agenda at work in the translation, two errors changed the entire meaning of that verse. There should be no capital “G” for the second “theos”.

“Theos” means ‘any god, goddess or divine personage’, so calling Jesus “theos” is not calling him Yahweh, but simply identifying him as a divine personage or one authorized by God to represent him.
If the definite article had been used in the second instance, like the first, then that would have identified Jesus as Yahweh.....it doesn’t.

Only Yahweh is identified by the definite article....Jesus never is, even though the word “theos” is applied to angels, human judges and even satan.....

Another mistranslation is clearly seen in John 10:31-36...
Again word for word, as it was written....

The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noblekalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; ·kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.” 34 Jesus Iēsous answered apokrinomai the mautos, ·ho “Is it eimi not ou written graphō in en ·ho your hymeis law nomos, ‘Iegō said legō, you are eimi gods theos’? 35 If ei the scripture called legō them ekeinos ‘gods theos’ to pros whom hos the ho word logos of ho God theos came ginomai—and kai scripture graphē cannot ou dynamai be annulled lyō ·ho— 36 do legō you hymeis say legō regarding the one whom hos the ho Father patēr consecrated hagiazō and kai sent apostellō into eis the ho world kosmos, ‘You are blaspheming blasphēmeō,’ because hoti I said legō, ‘I am eimi the Son hyios of ho God theos’?

Note the use of the lower case “g” for “gods”, but the capitalisation when if fits the trinity?
The Jews were not saying that Jesus was claiming to be “ho theos” but simply “theos”....claiming that God was his Father (John 5:18).....when he clearly stated that he was “the son of ho theos” (the Son of Yahweh)

Unless you do original language word studies, you are at the mercy of biased translators.
Every one of those translations you listed follows the same errors......do you know why?
Majority view prevails and makes those who disagree look like apostates....but Jesus said that it is the “few” not the “many” who are on the road to life. (Matt 7:13-14) Satan has the “many”....Jesus has the “few”.

Are you happy with that situation? Or are you willing to take the blinkers off and see what is actually written in the original language of the NT?

It’s confronting to many people, born and raised with a doctrine that has prevailed in Christendom for centuries....but it is an ancient lie....still believed by the majority......does that make it correct? What does the evidence reveal?

JW's love smoke screening while they attack the Christian Bible.

 

[soberxp]

What Does the Bible Really Teach About Jesus and his Relationship with his Father ?



How do you think about it?
I use the Tai Chi diagram to explain the relationship between Jesus Christ and man and God.


1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Jack]

What Does the Bible Really Teach About Jesus and his Relationship with his Father ?

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Yes, Jesus is God, the Creator.

 

[soberxp]

Yes, Jesus is God, the Creator.

I never said that,

the Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

 

[Jack]

I never said that,

Yes you did!

Quoting you: "these three are one".

 

[soberxp]

Yes you did!

Quoting you: "these three are one".

Divinity is the same and one.

 

[Jack]

Divinity is the same and one.

Gee, that sounds like JW insanity.

 

[soberxp]

Gee, that sounds like JW insanity.

isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;(Who is with me?)

 

[Jack]

isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;(Who is with me?)

"Who is with me"? Kingdom Hall maybe.

 

[Wrangler]

No one really knows the name that Jesus bore before he became Jesus the man on earth....but we believe that he could well be Michael in a different role, with a different name.

I've often wondered what Jesus' new name is referred to in Revelation. Seems that is not discussed much.

 

[JustMe]

I've often wondered what Jesus' new name is referred to in Revelation. Seems that is not discussed much.

And in what language, an old one or a new one for all. A new language of the Kingdom I expect.

(Zep 3:9) For then I will give a pure language to the people, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one accord. (AFV)