What does the Bible say about self-control?

[Aunty Jane]

A bit sensitive aren't you? And then the restrained, polite retaliating response exercizing self control ... very good!

Sensitive? LOL....nope. I have a pretty thick skin. No true Christian can be "sensitive" when it comes to defending their faith, because Jesus already warned us about how we would be treated....exactly the same as he was, (John 15:18-21) and for the same reason. And who was it who dished all the dirt....? It was the ones who claimed to worship the same God...their fellow Jews. But hundreds of years had passed since God's last prophet had tried to correct Israel's leadership.....but it was hopeless....that is hundreds of years of apostasy that had infiltrated Judaism and had run it off the rails......so what did Jesus think of them? Read Matthew 23 and see...

The JW org is not a Protestant denomination, they were rejected during Charles Taze Russell's time due to it's false doctrines that go against the fundamental beliefs of the Bible.

Again this makes me smile....its true, we are not a denomination of Christendom in any way. Charles Russell was not the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, but he was the spokesman for a group of men who were drawn together from various denominations with a single purpose.....to study the Bible thoroughly and to test out Christendom's doctrines to see if they were backed up by scripture.....over many years, they investigated all these teachings and found that none of them were from the Bible, but were instead concepts from paganism which were blended with ambiguous verses in the Bible to make them appear to be scriptural.....the list kept growing as more and more beliefs were discarded as false. He recorded their findings in a magazine called "The Watchtower" that has been in print now continuously for over 100 years.

Oh please, congregants in Kingdom Hall meetings regularly stand up against the entire Christendom as if we are a fallen, Satanic lost and corrupted group of 2.65 billion Christians.

What makes you proud of those numbers? If Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life, then I'd rather be among the persecuted minority than in the middle of the "weeds" that Jesus warned would be growing along with his true disciples right up until the harvest. The apostasy spread by those "weeds" was "already at work" whist the apostles were still alive. So, if they are to grow together with the wheat till the harvest....who are they?

Who is Jesus talking to in Matthew 7:21-23? Do they sound like they were expecting a complete rejection as those he "never knew"? Their excuses are completely dismissed as invalid. What signs and wonders are they displaying? Who's laws are they breaking? Can you tell me?

Your preconceived notions of us has warranted strict rules forbidding your congregants from ever entering into any of our churches, and strongly discourages from being unequally yoked with any of us especially in marriage.

If we have obeyed God's direct command to "get out of Babylon the great", (Revelation 18:4-5) then why would we want to walk back in there? It would feel like a betrayal.

And FYI, I was married to an unbeliever for 45 years.....I became a JW not long after we were married, and he was like you, full of suspicion and distrust...something he inherited from a very bigoted mother. He would not listen or even try to understand that I had found something that was precious to me.
So I patiently withstood his ire for over 20 years....until our son's engagement party, when he was forced to attend a gathering with JW's and he was not happy about it.
Our brothers approached my husband and introduced themselves and many of them were in the building trade as my husband was, so they had a lot in common....I couldn't believe my eyes when he spent the entire evening chatting with them like long lost friends....the ice was finally broken and he had to admit how wrong he had been about Jehovah's Witnesses.....for the remaining years of our marriage, he was happy to have them as friends and as guests in our home. He had wasted over 20 years of his life being ignorant. But the remaining years were those I cherish. I lost him 7 years ago, but I look forward to the resurrection in the hope of seeing him again....back here on earth where Jesus will call all the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Question: Would you ever call any Christian outside your organization a brother or sister? I doubt it and why? Your preconceived notions that not only result in division, but a WALL around your camp that protects you from all of the sinful corruption outside.

In case you hadn't noticed, there was always a wall around Jehovah's people screening them off from the surrounding nations because they were worshippers of false gods. Each time God's rules were breached and Israel fell into false worship, God responded with severe punishments.
The Babylonian exile was the result of their unfaithful conduct. But not all of the Israelites were faithless, as we see Daniel and his three companions held to their faith in that pagan city, even in the face of death. God rescued them and blessed them. Daniel was privileged to write about our day, "the time of the end", and his prophesies are those we see being fulfilled before our eyes.

Following the death of the apostles, claimed disciples of God's son again went in to captivity to a greater "Babylon", because of their faithless adoption of false worship.....all of their pagan teachings can be traced back to original Babylon.
True Christian "wheat" were still among those "weeds" and God recognized them and supported them through extreme treatment because 'the mother church' was ruthless in her persecution of them....just as the Jews were ruthless in their persecution of Christ and his disciples back in the first century.

Newsflash: We are all sinners. But I think your hierarchy exective directors are more afraid that if you were exposed to our churches for any length of time, they would lose many.

I really don't believe that for a moment. I was raised in Christendom...I found it to be a spiritually empty place...devoid of any satisfying answers to any of my questions.
Once you learn the truth, there is no going back. Those who leave us rarely go back to any religion.

Yes, me too, if it is an accurate translation. The NWT is the only translation created to conform to a religious belief system.

I have never found the NWT to be anything but accurate. I use a range of translations myself on Biblegateway as well as doing a lot of research in Strongs Concordance, and Interlinear works, investigating original language words...sometimes its a real eye opener.
Never have I found any cause for concern that the NWT was incorrectly translated.
I originally studied my own KJV and found the truth in it, along with Jehovah's name.......something my church never mentioned. 'Hallowed be what name'?

Yes the elect sheep are in the billions - and there is plenty of room in heaven fyi.

What makes you think there are billions? Christ's elect are a "little flock" (Luke 12:32)....the "few" as opposed to the "many". (Matthew 7:13-14)
What makes you think "billions" are going to heaven? God already has a very large spiritual family there who existed long before we did. The elect have a very important role to play in heaven....what are you expecting to do there?

Then why are the JW's so isolated, separating themsel es form the entire BODY?

What body is that? If we do not see Christendom as anything but the "weeds" of Jesus parable, then why would we want to mingle with them spiritually, sharing in their false doctrines and participating in their pagan celebrations? Paul told us to separate from all that and to have nothing to do with things that are spiritually "unclean". (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

We have obeyed that directive. What about you?

 

[Episkopos]

Self-control is something that comes from our will to do what is right. It is based on human righteousness. The OT standard is what can be done in human terms while admitting that there is much more that needs to be done. Self- control is our responsibility. We live in a time where people are no longer able to take full responsibility for their actions.

But God builds His righteousness on our righteousness.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Sensitive? LOL....nope. I have a pretty thick skin. No true Christian can be "sensitive" when it comes to defending their faith, because Jesus already warned us about how we would be treated....exactly the same as he was, (John 15:18-21)

So you are lumping me in with those who persecuted Christ? Nice but typical of the JW to do that and I will get back to you on that one.

Who is Jesus talking to in Matthew 7:21-23?

Matthew in many instances was a a message to Jewish Christians . In that passage he was speaking about unbelieving Jews who would someday plead with him. "LORD, LORD didn't we do this and do that, bla, bla, bla." The Jews knew God and His Law and followed it and so these Jews expected some acknowledgement, consideration. But Jesus said, "Away from me, I never knew you." That means they never had a relationship with Jesus. The Gentiles never cast out demons in His name or knew the Law. That message was to the Jews. And most scholars would tell you that the Book of Matthew had an overall Jewish theme, presenting Jesus as the Messiah, Son of David, starting with his geneology, discussing the Law and Prophets, etc. Gentiles couldn't relate to all that.

And FYI, I was married to an unbeliever for 45 years.....I became a JW not long after we were married, and he was like you, full of suspicion and distrust...something he inherited from a very bigoted mother. He would not listen or even try to understand that I had found something that was precious to me.
So I patiently withstood his ire for over 20 years....until our son's engagement party, when he was forced to attend a gathering with JW's and he was not happy about it.
Our brothers approached my husband and introduced themselves and many of them were in the building trade as my husband was, so they had a lot in common....I couldn't believe my eyes when he spent the entire evening chatting with them like long lost friends....the ice was finally broken and he had to admit how wrong he had been about Jehovah's Witnesses.....for the remaining years of our marriage, he was happy to have them as friends and as guests in our home. He had wasted over 20 years of his life being ignorant. But the remaining years were those I cherish. I lost him 7 years ago, but I look forward to the resurrection in the hope of seeing him again....back here on earth where Jesus will call all the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29)

So He became a JW?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

What makes you think there are billions?

People from Catholics to Protestants, non-denominalional churches claim their faith in Christ. I knew when I was an unbeliever, that I would not make such a claim. I would not accept an invitaion to church or was I open to people handing out tracts about Christ. But when I was 34 years old, something happened, I was drawn to God. I realized He orchestrated events and people in my life that led up to that very divine moment. I realized that He was there all along. But prior to that, I would mock at and joke about the Bible. So our hunger for the WORD and relationship with Christ, our Father and the Holy Spirit confirms our belief.

What body is that? If we do not see Christendom as anything but the "weeds" of Jesus parable, then why would we want to mingle with them spiritually, sharing in their false doctrines and participating in their pagan celebrations? Paul told us to separate from all that and to have nothing to do with things that are spiritually "unclean". (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

The Church is the BODY OF CHRIST. It includes all believers, like cells in an organism.
So there it is, you see the entire Christendom as weeds.

Here is a small but selective compilation of YOUR quotes from various threads expressing your view of Christendom:

“I believe that Christendom’s defection was so early in “Church” history that no one questions the false teachings that infiltrated their doctrines and have been accepted as gospel truth for centuries. What was true of Judaism became true of “Christianity”.” (#116 from ‘Can you be saved if you don’t believe in the deity of Christ?’)…

“ most of Christendom is clueless” (#132 from the same thread)

“Most of Christendom’s beliefs were so strongly entrenched in the early centuries, by a power hungry “church” under the influence of a pagan Emperor who, in an attempt to consolidate his divided empire, created a “State religion” by fusing corrupted “Christianity” with pagan Roman sun worship, which is still very evident to this day....and the rest, as they say...is history. Look at the fractured state of Christianity and see what God is seeing....the “weeds” have done what “weeds” do best.” (#257 from “The Kingdom of God: comparying LDS and JW views”)…

“I know a completely different God to the one I was taught growing up in Christendom.” (#74 from the same thread’)…

“Christendom is the tares.” (#147 from the same thread)

“Do all Christians go to heaven? NO.
Do Christendom's churches have a good understanding as to what God's Kingdom is? NO.
Do they know what the Kingdom is for and how it "comes"?....what the Lord's Prayer means? NO.” ( #419 from ‘A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians”)

“We are not part of Christendom, having withdrawn from what became “orthodox” Christianity over a century ago...just before the period called “the time of the end” in Daniel’s prophesy began. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)” (#81 from “ Is Faith Healing Really from God?)…

“Christendom is just globally confused.” (#54 from the same thread)…

“If you look through the eyes of Christendom, their collective vision of God is very distorted.” (#65 from the above thread)

“I am no part of Christendom or any of her pagan adoptions.” (#164 from “One of the Best Explanations I’ve seen on Satans’s sin.”)

“Christendom is nothing but a fractured, impotent mess....lost in error and good for nothing.” (#197 from “Jehovah is either God or He is not, correct?”)

Questions: Now I ask, why are you here in this forum? To save us from our apostasy and doom? And with this attitude, why would anyone in Christendom trust you? To try to pull you out maybe?
This is an example of your fruit, bashing the entire Body of Christ AND distorting the truth of the Bible.
I have to add that God is sovereign, which means He is in control of history, His plan is and has been moving along perfectly. He factors in all our flaws, He must for a purpose. Good and evil are woven together ny Him. And so it seems that man is able to screw up God's plan but man cannot. Your view that Christianity as a whole has been compromised is falacy and lack of faith in Christ, Who has all authority. How embarassed you will be when He introduces you to Michael and corrects all your misunderstandings of Who He really is.
Here's an idea, since you desire that other's know the truth preaented weekly in your Watchtower Publication, why not copy all your quotes, print them and slip them in with your magazine when you hand them out. You want them to know the whole truth right, how you feel about Christendom? How aould people respond? Maybe like they did recently in Russia. No, those elders who write your weekly publication might object and say, "Are you crazy, we don't want them to actually know how negativeley we all feel about them, we want to lure them in with love and kindness. Once they are in, then we can reveal the whole truth."

 

[BarneyFife]

I love all the Jehovah Witnesses in my family, I have heard and read their doctrines. They practice being good people and I'll give them that.
I would just prefer that they would identify who they are and where their teachings come from. It's simple, "I'd like to share something I read in the June 2020 Watchtower magazine about self control." It lets everyone know who they are and where they are coming from.
We all go through many long discussiins thay wouls be shortebes if only we identified ourselves from the get-go. Example: "Hi, I'm BarneyFife, I'm, an Amillennialist, Non-Trinitarian, Sabbath Keeping SDA" or Christian Scientist or whatever - something like that. It saves a lot of time. The rest of us will know whether we want to labor over those issues in an endless futile attempt ... or not!

Well, guess what? Virtually nobody does that—not even yourself, as far as I've seen.

"Christian" is all the forum requires.

What kind of label do you want on your shirt, Ron?

I just always assume the person I'm talking to is not me.
I don't need to know to what extent people agree with my church's list (not creed) of 28 fundamental beliefs before I can have a meaningful, Christian discussion with them.

In other words:

I don't need a heads-up, an advantage, or an upper hand to talk to someone.

Pluralism, homemade religion, and anti-denominationalism are "in."

I, for one, am not impressed with it. Independent, conscientious thinking is one thing, but what a lot of folks are doing these days is just rebellion of the non-conformist type. As if God has no 7000 today in Israel—no remnant. The entire history of God's people has been a perpetual cycle of gather, scatter, and recall. We can't see these simple things in the Bible because we're too busy comparing ourselves to each other or trying to figure out what God is made of or what all we can get away with and yet still be saved.

More than a few people around here tend to use information for ammunition.

There's one guy that begins all his posts with the faux, benevolent greeting: "Precious friend..."

Well, when we were discussing someone's claim that Seventh-day Adventists are obsessed with the Sabbath (that was roughly the actual name of the thread), this lover of souls goes and grabs some embarrassingly fraudulent information from nonsda.org or one of those hate websites, and just totally and obviously (even to himself--he ran and hid) makes a blank-shooting, donkey's rear of himself.

Not entirely unlike what you've done here with Non-Trinitarianism and Amillennialism. (That's right. )

What Adventists Believe About the Trinity - Adventist.org
What Adventists Believe about the Millennium and the End of Sin - Adventist.org

There are some exceptions to the rule, of course (you seem like a pretty nice fella, btw), but generally speaking, the more cards you lay on the table around here, the more hit-and-runs and trolls you have on your tail. You probably know some of these folks I'm talking about. Enoch111 used to take hit-and-run shots at the Adventist church right and left until I called him out on some of his pseudo-research. Still does once in a while.

I often quote from writers and don't give them credit, because I know for a fact that they don't mind it, and why shouldn't written material just be judged on its own merit instead of some stereotype that has people bathing in a pool of big, fat genetic fallacy? ("What good thing can come out of Nazareth?") Again, I believe people just don't want to be compelled to admit that some of these "unorthodox" writers had some good things to say.

Have you ever read "Steps To Christ," "The Desire of Ages," or "Thoughts From The Mount Of Blessing?"

You'd be shocked at how beautifully they portray our Sovereign Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ.

But today, Google provides everything you need for some instant Archie Bunkerism.

Anyway, thanks for the advice but I'd just as soon decide for myself how and when I want to leave my belief system open for fraudulent abuse. If anybody has a problem with one of my post quotes, there's a little -Report- link down in the lefthand corner of each post.

I'm not usually this aggressive and vocal about this, because I don't want to become known as a wannabe martyr, but sometimes the treatment religious minorities receive gets old, you know what I mean, Ron?

One more thing: I'm not an SDA—I'm a Seventh-day Adventist. The name of my church was never meant to be abbreviated. See if you can figure out why. You can call me whatever you like. I just wanted to make sure you know exactly what I am.

The 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, and Jesus is about to burst through the sky in all of His Glory. Those are two very important things the world needs to understand at this time in history.

All spoken in love, Ron, my brother. All in love.
(See my little Barney pic?)

At the Feast of Tabernacles
The priest had that morning performed the ceremony which commemorated the smiting of the rock in the wilderness. That rock was a symbol of Him who by His death would cause living streams of salvation to flow to all who are athirst. Christ's words were the water of life. There in the presence of the assembled multitude He set Himself apart to be smitten, that the water of life might flow to the world. In smiting Christ, Satan thought to destroy the Prince of life; but from the smitten rock there flowed living water. As Jesus thus spoke to the people, their hearts thrilled with a strange awe, and many were ready to exclaim, with the woman of Samaria, “Give me this water, that I thirst not.” John 4:15.


Jesus knew the wants of the soul. Pomp, riches, and honor cannot satisfy the heart. “If any man thirst, let him come unto Me.” The rich, the poor, the high, the low, are alike welcome. He promises to relieve the burdened mind, to comfort the sorrowing, and to give hope to the despondent. Many of those who heard Jesus were mourners over disappointed hopes, many were nourishing a secret grief, many were seeking to satisfy their restless longing with the things of the world and the praise of men; but when all was gained, they found that they had toiled only to reach a broken cistern, from which they could not quench their thirst. Amid the glitter of the joyous scene they stood, dissatisfied and sad. That sudden cry, “If any man thirst,” startled them from their sorrowful meditation, and as they listened to the words that followed, their minds kindled with a new hope. The Holy Spirit presented the symbol before them until they saw in it the offer of the priceless gift of salvation.


The cry of Christ to the thirsty soul is still going forth, and it appeals to us with even greater power than to those who heard it in the temple on that last day of the feast. The fountain is open for all. The weary and exhausted ones are offered the refreshing draught of eternal life. Jesus is still crying, “If any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink.” “Let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.” Revelation 22:17; John 4:14.
The Desire Of Ages, p. 454 -- EGW

 

[BarneyFife]

People from Catholics to Protestants, non-denominalional churches claim their faith in Christ. I knew when I was and unbelieving, that I would not make such a claim. I would not accept an invitaion to church or was I open to people handing out tracts about Christ. But when I was 34 years old, something happened, I was drawn to God. I realized He orchestrated events and people in my life that led up to that very divine moment. I realized that He was there all along. But prior to that, I would mock at and joke about the Bible. So our hunger for the WORD and relationship with Christ, our Father and the Holy Spirit confirms our belief.


The Church is the BODY OF CHRIST. It includes all believers, like cells in an organism.

PRAISE GOD FOR YOUR TESTIMONY, BROTHER!!!

 

[APAK]

What does the Bible say about self-control?
overtime is always available!

And if you don't use it you lose it.....get outa control...

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well, guess what? Virtually nobody does that—not even yourself, as far as I've seen.

"Christian" is all the forum requires.

What kind of label do you want on your shirt, Ron?

I just always assume the person I'm talking to is not me.
In I don't need to know to what extent people agree with my church's list (not creed) of 28 fundamental beliefs before I can have a meaningful, Christian discussion with them.
In other words:
I don't need a heads-up, an advantage, or an upper hand to talk to someone.

Pluralism, homemade religion, and anti-denominationalism are "in."

I, for one, am not impressed with it. Independent, conscientious thinking is one thing, but what a lot of folks are doing these days is just rebellion of the non-conformist type. As if God has no 7000 today in Israel—no remnant. The entire history of God's people has been a perpetual cycle of gather, scatter, and recall. We can't see these simple things in the Bible because we're too busy comparing ourselves to each other or trying to figure out what God is made of or what all we can get away with and yet still be saved.

More than a few people around here tend to use information for ammunition.

There's one guy that begins all his posts with the faux, benevolent greeting: "Precious friend..."

Well, when we were discussing someone's claim that Seventh-day Adventists are obsessed with the Sabbath (that was roughly the actual name of the thread), this lover of souls goes and grabs some embarrassingly fraudulent information from nonsda.org or one of those hate websites, and just totally and obviously (even to himself--he ran and hid) makes a blank-shooting, donkey's rear of himself.

Not entirely unlike what you've done here with Non-Trinitarianism and Amillennialism. (That's right. )

What Adventists Believe About the Trinity - Adventist.org
What Adventists Believe about the Millennium and the End of Sin - Adventist.org

There are some exceptions to the rule, of course (you seem like a pretty nice fella, btw), but generally speaking, the more cards you lay on the table around here, the more hit-and-runs and trolls you have on your tail. You probably know some of these folks I'm talking about. Enoch111 used to take hit-and-run shots at the Adventist church right and left until I called him out on some of his pseudo-research. Still does once in a while.

I often quote from writers and don't give them credit, because I know for a fact that they don't mind it, and why shouldn't written material just be judged on its own merit instead of some stereotype that has people bathing in a pool of big, fat genetic fallacy? ("What good thing can come out of Nazareth?") Again, I believe people just don't want to be compelled to admit that some of these "unorthodox" writers had some good things to say.

Have you ever read "Steps To Christ," "The Desire of Ages," or "Thoughts From The Mount Of Blessing?"

You'd be shocked at how beautifully they portray our Sovereign Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ.

But today, Google provides everything you need for some instant Archie Bunkerism.

Anyway, thanks for the advice but I'd just as soon decide for myself how and when I want to leave my belief system open for fraudulent abuse. If anybody has a problem with one of my post quotes, there's a little -Report- link down in the lefthand corner of each post.

I'm not usually this aggressive and vocal about this, because I don't want to become known as a wannabe martyr, but sometimes the treatment religious minorities receive gets old, you know what I mean, Ron?

One more thing: I'm not an SDA—I'm a Seventh-day Adventist. The name of my church was never meant to be abbreviated. See if you can figure out why. You can call me whatever you like. I just wanted to make sure you know exactly what I am.

The 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, and Jesus is about to burst through the sky in all of His Glory. Those are two very important things the world needs to understand at this time in history.

All spoken in love, Ron, my brother. All in love.
(See my little Barney pic?)

At the Feast of Tabernacles
The priest had that morning performed the ceremony which commemorated the smiting of the rock in the wilderness. That rock was a symbol of Him who by His death would cause living streams of salvation to flow to all who are athirst. Christ's words were the water of life. There in the presence of the assembled multitude He set Himself apart to be smitten, that the water of life might flow to the world. In smiting Christ, Satan thought to destroy the Prince of life; but from the smitten rock there flowed living water. As Jesus thus spoke to the people, their hearts thrilled with a strange awe, and many were ready to exclaim, with the woman of Samaria, “Give me this water, that I thirst not.” John 4:15.


Jesus knew the wants of the soul. Pomp, riches, and honor cannot satisfy the heart. “If any man thirst, let him come unto Me.” The rich, the poor, the high, the low, are alike welcome. He promises to relieve the burdened mind, to comfort the sorrowing, and to give hope to the despondent. Many of those who heard Jesus were mourners over disappointed hopes, many were nourishing a secret grief, many were seeking to satisfy their restless longing with the things of the world and the praise of men; but when all was gained, they found that they had toiled only to reach a broken cistern, from which they could not quench their thirst. Amid the glitter of the joyous scene they stood, dissatisfied and sad. That sudden cry, “If any man thirst,” startled them from their sorrowful meditation, and as they listened to the words that followed, their minds kindled with a new hope. The Holy Spirit presented the symbol before them until they saw in it the offer of the priceless gift of salvation.


The cry of Christ to the thirsty soul is still going forth, and it appeals to us with even greater power than to those who heard it in the temple on that last day of the feast. The fountain is open for all. The weary and exhausted ones are offered the refreshing draught of eternal life. Jesus is still crying, “If any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink.” “Let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.” Revelation 22:17; John 4:14.
The Desire Of Ages, p. 454 -- EGW

Ah, I mentioned SDA and that yanked your chain. I did not mean it as a derogatory remark. All I meant is that if I know you are SDA, I will not get into some long drawn out argument that leads to futility. I will choose something else to talk about. I have had enough debates with Amillennials and Non-Trinitarians as well and just don't choose to do it anymore unless they ask for it -like Aunty Jane's post did. So here you are trying to start a Sabbath Day debate again or teach me something ... no thanks. Btw, you are all Christians in the Body, if you believe that Christ died for your sins and rose on the third day. So I would wear a shirt that says Christian. Actually, thanks for reminding me I think I will put some details in my profile about who I am. The thing is, is that 98 % of Christianity believes in the Trinity and most of us in the Coming Millennial Kingdom, so I am not the minority. SDA is a Protestant denomination, legimate. JW is not, so I think when you hold unorthodox beliefs you should be up front about it.

You said: " I don't need to know to what extent people agree with my church's list (not creed) of 28 fundamental beliefs before I can have a meaningful, Christian discussion with them.
In other words: I don't need a heads-up, an advantage, or an upper hand to talk to someone."

Yah, but in real life, you meet people, get to really know them and find out eventually don't you? A friend at a party may introduce you to someone but beforehand warn you not to talk about this or that with this person, that you will just set off a firestorm. So you don't, right? Or, "I'd like you to meet George, but don't talk politics, he's a Democrat!"

 

[BarneyFife]

So here you are trying to start a Sabbath Day debate again or teach me something ... no thanks.

See, you got me all wrong, Arch.
And you didn't pull my chain—you just reminded me of a prevailing attitude.

The thing is, is that 98 % of Christianity believes in the Trinity and most of us in the Coming Millennial Kingdom, so I am not the minority.

Ain't it good to not be in the minority?

You guys just can't help yourselves, I guess.
Us-and-them, us-and-them.

Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I was trying to teach you something, Rabbi Ron.

.
.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No kidding, sorry, but I just can't help but chuckle at this sandbox sometimes.

Anybody wanna admit they/we/I all need Jesus today, just as badly as they/we/I did when we first believed?
Pick up my cross and deny myself daily, die daily, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof, all that kind of stuff?

Can I get a witness?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

See, you got me all wrong, Arch.
And you didn't pull my chain—you just reminded me of a prevailing attitude.

Ain't it good to not be in the minority?

You guys just can't help yourselves, I guess.
Us-and-them, us-and-them.

Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I was trying to teach you something, Rabbi Ron.

.
.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No kidding, sorry, but I just can't help but chuckle at this sandbox sometimes.

Anybody wanna admit they/we/I all need Jesus today, just as badly as they/we/I did when we first believed?
Pick up my cross and deny myself daily, die daily, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof, all that kind of stuff?

Can I get a witness?

Glad you can draw some humor out of all this. You have to have a sense of humor. I think of myself as childlike in spirit. My wife and I might argue about this or that and laugh about it later. Actually I am always joking around, but online people nevsr really experience the up-close and personal you. It also gives them this license to be mean, rude, insulting sometimes, because they can wear a mask and be incognito. Normally we would exercise self control, be more respectful and nice. And that includes me too. The up close and personal me has been insensitve at times. I have learned to control my tongue. It can be gentle or sting.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well, guess what? Virtually nobody does that—not even yourself, as far as I've seen.

"Christian" is all the forum requires.

What kind of label do you want on your shirt, Ron?

I just always assume the person I'm talking to is not me.
I don't need to know to what extent people agree with my church's list (not creed) of 28 fundamental beliefs before I can have a meaningful, Christian discussion with them.

In other words:

I don't need a heads-up, an advantage, or an upper hand to talk to someone.

Pluralism, homemade religion, and anti-denominationalism are "in."

I, for one, am not impressed with it. Independent, conscientious thinking is one thing, but what a lot of folks are doing these days is just rebellion of the non-conformist type. As if God has no 7000 today in Israel—no remnant. The entire history of God's people has been a perpetual cycle of gather, scatter, and recall. We can't see these simple things in the Bible because we're too busy comparing ourselves to each other or trying to figure out what God is made of or what all we can get away with and yet still be saved.

More than a few people around here tend to use information for ammunition.

There's one guy that begins all his posts with the faux, benevolent greeting: "Precious friend..."

Well, when we were discussing someone's claim that Seventh-day Adventists are obsessed with the Sabbath (that was roughly the actual name of the thread), this lover of souls goes and grabs some embarrassingly fraudulent information from nonsda.org or one of those hate websites, and just totally and obviously (even to himself--he ran and hid) makes a blank-shooting, donkey's rear of himself.

Not entirely unlike what you've done here with Non-Trinitarianism and Amillennialism. (That's right. )

What Adventists Believe About the Trinity - Adventist.org
What Adventists Believe about the Millennium and the End of Sin - Adventist.org

There are some exceptions to the rule, of course (you seem like a pretty nice fella, btw), but generally speaking, the more cards you lay on the table around here, the more hit-and-runs and trolls you have on your tail. You probably know some of these folks I'm talking about. Enoch111 used to take hit-and-run shots at the Adventist church right and left until I called him out on some of his pseudo-research. Still does once in a while.

I often quote from writers and don't give them credit, because I know for a fact that they don't mind it, and why shouldn't written material just be judged on its own merit instead of some stereotype that has people bathing in a pool of big, fat genetic fallacy? ("What good thing can come out of Nazareth?") Again, I believe people just don't want to be compelled to admit that some of these "unorthodox" writers had some good things to say.

Have you ever read "Steps To Christ," "The Desire of Ages," or "Thoughts From The Mount Of Blessing?"

You'd be shocked at how beautifully they portray our Sovereign Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ.

But today, Google provides everything you need for some instant Archie Bunkerism.

Anyway, thanks for the advice but I'd just as soon decide for myself how and when I want to leave my belief system open for fraudulent abuse. If anybody has a problem with one of my post quotes, there's a little -Report- link down in the lefthand corner of each post.

I'm not usually this aggressive and vocal about this, because I don't want to become known as a wannabe martyr, but sometimes the treatment religious minorities receive gets old, you know what I mean, Ron?

One more thing: I'm not an SDA—I'm a Seventh-day Adventist. The name of my church was never meant to be abbreviated. See if you can figure out why. You can call me whatever you like. I just wanted to make sure you know exactly what I am.

The 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, and Jesus is about to burst through the sky in all of His Glory. Those are two very important things the world needs to understand at this time in history.

All spoken in love, Ron, my brother. All in love.
(See my little Barney pic?)

At the Feast of Tabernacles
The priest had that morning performed the ceremony which commemorated the smiting of the rock in the wilderness. That rock was a symbol of Him who by His death would cause living streams of salvation to flow to all who are athirst. Christ's words were the water of life. There in the presence of the assembled multitude He set Himself apart to be smitten, that the water of life might flow to the world. In smiting Christ, Satan thought to destroy the Prince of life; but from the smitten rock there flowed living water. As Jesus thus spoke to the people, their hearts thrilled with a strange awe, and many were ready to exclaim, with the woman of Samaria, “Give me this water, that I thirst not.” John 4:15.


Jesus knew the wants of the soul. Pomp, riches, and honor cannot satisfy the heart. “If any man thirst, let him come unto Me.” The rich, the poor, the high, the low, are alike welcome. He promises to relieve the burdened mind, to comfort the sorrowing, and to give hope to the despondent. Many of those who heard Jesus were mourners over disappointed hopes, many were nourishing a secret grief, many were seeking to satisfy their restless longing with the things of the world and the praise of men; but when all was gained, they found that they had toiled only to reach a broken cistern, from which they could not quench their thirst. Amid the glitter of the joyous scene they stood, dissatisfied and sad. That sudden cry, “If any man thirst,” startled them from their sorrowful meditation, and as they listened to the words that followed, their minds kindled with a new hope. The Holy Spirit presented the symbol before them until they saw in it the offer of the priceless gift of salvation.


The cry of Christ to the thirsty soul is still going forth, and it appeals to us with even greater power than to those who heard it in the temple on that last day of the feast. The fountain is open for all. The weary and exhausted ones are offered the refreshing draught of eternal life. Jesus is still crying, “If any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink.” “Let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.” Revelation 22:17; John 4:14.
The Desire Of Ages, p. 454 -- EGW

Lots of material here. I agree with much of it. The description of the Millennial Kingdom, that it will exist, yes, but the place, no. Your church claims that in the Millennial Kingdom, the earth is the pit and that is where Satan and his horde will be chained and that we will be in heaven.
Revelation 20:1-3 "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while."
The Bottomless Pit/Abyss is IN the earth, not on it. Under the crust, in the deep caverns and core of the earth. Think of this also, Satan will not deceive the nations during this time until the end of this 1000 years. Where are nations? Nations aren't in heaven. Christians will live on earth and visit Christ in Jerusalem. He will rule on earth.
There is plenty to speak of on this topic, but it probably would not be effective in changing your view. Soul sleep is another futile topic as well.
It really doesn't matter if we understand these mysteries , it will all pan out out in the end. The important thing is to be secure in your faith, your eternal salvation, a gift from God.

 

[marks]

Anybody wanna admit they/we/I all need Jesus today, just as badly as they/we/I did when we first believed?
Pick up my cross and deny myself daily, die daily, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof, all that kind of stuff?

Can I get a witness?

I'm your huckleberry!

I need Him more today than ever before! Plenty of evil for today! I just want to keep my mind and heart set on Jesus for another 2 minutes! And then another 2 after that. And so on.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

I'm your huckleberry!

I need Him more today than ever before! Plenty of evil for today! I just want to keep my mind and heart set on Jesus for another 2 minutes! And then another 2 after that. And so on.

Much love!

Finally!

THANK YOU, BROTHER!!

Now I can go over to @Angelina 's place and rustle up sump'nother to eat!