What exactly is pre-Tribulation, Tribulation and Rapture?

[Phoneman777]

So you are going to continue to ignore the fact that RULE in Rev 19 is in the future tense proving the rule over the nations happens after the second coming...that's not a surprise.

All future events are foretold in the future tense. And, yes, after Jesus arrives in the clouds at His Second Coming, His "rod of iron" rule of destruction falls down upon the Earth as the righteous ascend up to Him, according to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV and 2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJV.

 

[Dropship]

Jesus said to the chap on the cross next to him- "Today you'll be with me in paradise", he never mentioned any of that Pre-Trib / Trib / Rapture stuff..

 

[ewq1938]

All future events are foretold in the future tense.

Wrong. Two verbs are present tense in rev 19, but one is future tense. This proves two things are happening right there during Armageddon, but the ruling the nations is not happening until after it.

This proves not all humans are killed at the second coming. The origin of that false teaching is Amil, a Catholic invention.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus said to the chap on the cross next to him- "Today you'll be with me in paradise", he never mentioned any of that Pre-Trib / Trib / Rapture stuff..

Because those things aren't related to where people go when they die.

 

[Dropship]

Jesus said to the chap on the cross next to him- "Today you'll be with me in paradise", he never mentioned any of that Pre-Trib / Trib / Rapture stuff..

Because those things aren't related to where people go when they die.

We all end up in heaven or hell, seems clear and simple enough to me..
Jesus said- "All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28-29)

 

[ewq1938]

We all end up in heaven or hell, seems clear and simple enough to me..

But a time comes when all will enter the great trib period.

 

[Taken]

We all end up in heaven or hell, seems clear and simple enough to me..
Jesus said- "All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28-29)

People - person - includes a body.
Body’s do not go to heaven.
Body’s die and return to the earth.
Body’s are resurrected.

Souls, yes, go to heaven or hell.

 

[Taken]

Jesus said to the chap on the cross next to him- "Today you'll be with me in paradise", he never mentioned any of that Pre-Trib / Trib / Rapture stuff..

pre-trib, trib, Rapture stuff...is about Raising up;
Sometimes it is; Redemption...ie only raising souls & raising spirits.
Sometimes it is: Redemption and Resurrection...ie raising up body’s.

The be with me in paradise, was speaking of the living soul that departs the dying body.
Dead Body’s of men return to the earth.
A saved soul goes to “paradise”...to wait judgement.
An unsaved soul goes to “hell”...to wait judgement.

Paradise “IS”, wherever the “TREE OF LIFE IS”.
The Tree of Life, “changes” locations.
* Tree of Life...First, in the Garden of Eden.
* Tree of Life...Next, in the “Comfort side of Hell”, with saved souls.
* Tree of Life...Now, in Heaven
* Tree of Life...Next and Last, shall be ON a renewed Earth.

The Tree of Life IS what “sustains” “keeps a saved soul....saved”.
* It is the nourishment for a “soul”.

Remember it was a Tree for Adam to eat from...and didn’t?
Remember the division in Hell..? Luke 16:26
Remember Jesus is First Before ALL things? Col 1:17
...Saved souls waiting in hell, had to wait for Jesus’ body to die, His soul to go to hell, His soul to leave hell, BEFORE saved souls could go to Heaven...(which is the same time, Paradise WAS in Hell, and then moved to Heaven)

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well remember Rutherford wrote that book in 1930. Sixteen years after the organization says Jesus returned invisibly! The fish stinks here!

Every one is in error. But the problem is that the Watchtower claimed to be Gods prophet like organization and that one cannot rpogress to teh light unless they are associated with the organization.

They have made many false prophecies.
Truth is released progressively. but that eneded at teh end of teh first century when all the books of the bible were written! What the watchtower lies about are unbiblical things. they will disfellowship you if you say their current beliefsa about some stuff is wrong biblically.

Remember when you make your self th eone true church like the Jw's and the RCC have, everything is scrutinized. Watchtower teaching has failed miserably many many many times. They have changed teachings so often.

they predicted Armageddon so often many got to mockingly call the organization " Armageddon INc.".

A new truth cannot contradict an old truth. expand and further explain yes, but contrdict no! that makes the old light darkness!

Well off till weds. to visit one fo our 6 kida, his wife and my precious granddaughter.

No sir we do not claim to be prophets, we claim to be God's one and only people. As things get revealed they will clearly contradict what was previously understood, that is simply common sense. I fail to understand why you would think otherwise.

We expect to be scrutinized, if we wasn't I would question if we were actually Jesus' disciples or not.
(Matthew 5:11, 12) 11 “Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. 12 Rejoice and be overjoyed, since your reward is great in the heavens, for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you.

 

[Dropship]

But a time comes when all will enter the great trib period.

But what's Trib FOR?
Same with pre-Trib and Rapture, what's the point of them?

 

[marks]

But what's Trib FOR?
Same with pre-Trib and Rapture, what's the point of them?

The time of the greatest tribulation is a time of testing to force everyone to their "final answer". No more sitting on a fence, you must choose.

Pre-trib rapture can be compared to Lot being removed from Sodom before its destruction. He wasn't scheduled to be there for it.

I haven't been following this thread much. Have you been getting the answers you've been looking for? I've studied these things a long time and if you want to ask me any questions feel free.

Much love!

 

[Dropship]

People - person - includes a body.
Body’s do not go to heaven.
Body’s die and return to the earth.
Body’s are resurrected.
Souls, yes, go to heaven or hell.

Yes-
Jesus said:-"The spirit within gives life, the flesh alone is worthless" (John 6:63 )
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 15:42-50)

 

[Dropship]

pre-trib, trib, Rapture stuff...is about Raising up;
Sometimes it is; Redemption...ie only raising souls & raising spirits.
Sometimes it is: Redemption and Resurrection...ie raising up body’s.
..Paradise “IS”, wherever the “TREE OF LIFE IS”.
The Tree of Life, “changes” locations.
* Tree of Life...First, in the Garden of Eden.
* Tree of Life...Next, in the “Comfort side of Hell”, with saved souls.
* Tree of Life...Now, in Heaven
* Tree of Life...Next and Last, shall be ON a renewed Earth.
The Tree of Life IS what “sustains” “keeps a saved soul....saved”.
* It is the nourishment for a “soul”.
Remember it was a Tree for Adam to eat from...and didn’t?
Remember the division in Hell..? Luke 16:26
Remember Jesus is First Before ALL things? Col 1:17
...Saved souls waiting in hell, had to wait for Jesus’ body to die, His soul to go to hell, His soul to leave hell, BEFORE saved souls could go to Heaven...(which is the same time, Paradise WAS in Hell, and then moved to Heaven)

Hmm I don't think Jesus said any of that stuff did he?
His message was beautifully simple and uncomplicated, namely the good go straight to heaven and the bad go straight to hell..

 

[Phoneman777]

Wrong. Two verbs are present tense in rev 19, but one is future tense. This proves two things are happening right there during Armageddon, but the ruling the nations is not happening until after it.

This proves not all humans are killed at the second coming. The origin of that false teaching is Amil, a Catholic invention.

Yes, at the Second Coming, the wicked will at that present time drop dead (present tense) "at the brightness of His coming", but after 1,000 years (future tense) all the wicked that have ever lived shall be resurrected, judged and found guilty, and cast into the Lake of Fire to suffer the Second Death, a permanent death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes-
Jesus said:-"The spirit within gives life, the flesh alone is worthless" (John 6:63 )
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 15:42-50)

A Soul goes nowhere at death - it ceases to be. How do we know? Because Genesis 2:7 KJV says the Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and at death, the Body returns to the dust, the Breath of Life returns to God exactly as it was when it issued forth.

"His soul was not left in hell" simply means "He didn't remain dead in the grave, but God raised Him to life".

When you run electricity through a light bulb, the union of the two produces light. What happens to the light when this union is disrupted by a switch - does it continue shining on another plane of existence or does it cease to be? What happens to the Soul when the life-giving power of the Breath of Life is removed from the body? Same thing.

 

[Dropship]

The time of the greatest tribulation is a time of testing to force everyone to their "final answer". No more sitting on a fence, you must choose.
Pre-trib rapture can be compared to Lot being removed from Sodom before its destruction. He wasn't scheduled to be there for it.
I haven't been following this thread much. Have you been getting the answers you've been looking for? I've studied these things a long time and if you want to ask me any questions feel free.

I've been getting a mixed bag of answers heavily laced with profound theology and I'm still trying to digest them..
The gist seems to be that they all sound as if God will be giving people "second chances" to avoid hell, is that right?

 

[Dropship]

A Soul goes nowhere at death - it ceases to be. How do we know? Because Genesis 2:7 KJV says the Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and at death, the Body returns to the dust, the Breath of Life returns to God exactly as it was when it issued forth..

Surely the terms "soul" and 'breath of life" are the same thing?
And as for "returning to God", does that include the soul/breath of all nonchristians?

 

[marks]

I've been getting a mixed bag of answers heavily laced with profound theology and I'm still trying to digest them..
The gist seems to be that they all sound as if God will be giving people "second chances" to avoid hell, is that right?

Not necessarily, no. 2 Thessalonians 2 teaches of those who are given a "working of error" to believe the lie, I take that to mean their minds will no longer work right, and this is to hold them over to condemnation. Same as those in Romans 2 who were given over to their reprobate minds.

But some will refuse the mark, and will be killed for it, and will help Israel upon pain of death (my speculation), and still be saved. The end of the age judgments are against the ungodly, and against the world system. The tribulation is first to bring Israel to repentance.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

But what's Trib FOR?
Same with pre-Trib and Rapture, what's the point of them?

Point is...
God IS WATCHING the population of the world increase, and with that population increase, the Majority of the population is becoming more and more, anti-God, anti-Christ, promoting and advocating and tolerant of lewd, immoral, corrupt behavior; as well as feather tapping punishments for lying, cheating, thieving behavior...

Inasmuch as a man can open his eyes those things being a routine tolerant behavior and be upset, mad, angry, disgusted....
* Gods ANGER as well is waxing.
And NOT NEWS, Gods Will shall prevail to END the corruption, greed, underhandedness.

* Men ARE currently Divided.
* Men ARE choosing to be WITH or WITH the Lord God.
* And SOME men ARE choosing Gods Offering of ASSURANCE to FOREVER be “WITH” God.

Those who choose to be “WITH” God, are simply learners, following the Lord Gods teachings, and believing what they are hearing and learning.
* Their KUDOS is...Good for you to hear, learn, follow, Believe.
* Their WARNNG is..BEWARE...BECAUSE there are Evil spirits stronger than you, prowling about readily to cunningly convince you to Reject the Lord God...and HINT....they have greater POWER than you.
* Their WARNING is BEWARE...BECAUSE there are Wicked men stronger than you, who SIT in a ‘kings” seat, that can punish you, IF they do not AGREE with your hearing, learning, following, speaking...
Of your BELIEF, in the Lord God.
(Recall even the govt. closing down churches? Who would have ever thought that would happen in the US? Recall the number of churches that did shut down, for fear of government punishment?)

Point is...
Any man “WITH” the Lord God, can be tricked, conned, threatened, forced to keep his mouth shut About the Lord God, or flat out reject the Lord God....and WHY the Warning?

Because it is better for a man to BE utterly ignorant About God, than to hear, follow along, BELIEVE, enjoy blessing of God....THEN TURN Against God, Because of their Fear of Evil spirits, or Because of their Fear of Wicked mens threats, punishments.......RATHER THAN, their TRUST IN GOD, be greater than their fear of created spirits and men

Point is...
The ASSURANCE to NEVER be Separated FROM being WITH God, is expressly BY a man Choosing...to Accept Gods Offering of “His Baptism”, that HIS SPIRIT, would not ONLY be WITH a man...BUT IN that man.....
AND who or what.....?? Created evil spirits? Created wicked men? Have a POWER Greater than God? ZIP.

Point is...
A man WITH Gods Spirit in that man....NOTHING whatsoever can, coheres, scare, frighten a man to Reject the Lord God, and acquiesce, fall for, the cunning trickery of evil spirits or wicked men.

The ONLY WAY, a man CAN RECEIVE Gods Holy Baptism...IS:
* Be forgiven for having HAD disbelief.
* Willingly give his BODY unto Death.
.....As did OT men continue Believing until their Body died.
.....As men can continue to Do, (and HOPE to not fall for cunning trickery).
....OR willingly crucified with Christ & THUS be MADE Baptized, with the Holy Spirit, by the Power of God.
....OR “IF” alive DURING Gods Tribulation, physically give their body unto Death for their Belief in the Lord God.

Crucified with Christ....are already Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
....God has no anger toward them.
....God has no end of days, during Gods Tribulation for them to suffer Wrath....because they have NEITER rejected God or the Lamb or Christ Jesus.

^ THEY are called.....IN Christ....Christ’s Church...the ONES to be CALLED UP, before Gods Tribulation Begins.

^ TO THEM ^ APPLIES the Pre-Tribulation Rapture...
^ THEY are DELIVERED FROM end of day Tribulation.
^ THEY are raised, body, soul, spirit....and return with Christ Jesus, to occupy his earthy Kingdom...1,000 years...the more prophecy to be fulfilled.

** ALL others shall suffer SOME or ALL of the End of Days (as we know them)...Tribulations, Wrath’s, sufferings, punishments, God shall send down from Heaven...

* SOME or ALL? Men shall DURING the Tribulation Come into Belief and THEN bodily Killed....and their soul saved then....Body raised in glory later...After 1,000 yr reign.

* SOME or ALL? During the Tribulation Some men will never Come into Belief and BE Killed, they soul not saved....bodily raised later in damnation....after 1,000 yr reign...and judged.

Pre-trib....same as rapture.....FOR dead bodys, raised up, glorified body, saved soul, quickened spirit...together with their Lord above the face of the earth, WHILE Gods Tribulation is destroying the earth.

Mid-trib...Body’s killed....not raised...not yet glorified....yet souls are saved and risen up to heaven to wait....to after 1,000 yrs reign...then body’s raised.

Post-trib....Believers, (not converted IN Christ while alive), but yet believed on the day their body died....body’s returning to dust, soul saved and in heaven...Shall be raised, in a glorified body, after 1,000 yr reign, have a saved soul, will receive their quickened spirit, occupy the New Earth WITH God forever.

Post-trib...NON-Believers, (not a saved soul, no quickened spirit,) dead body raised, (not a glorified body), face judgement and final sentencing, of separation from God forever.

 

[farouk]

Point is...
God IS WATCHING the population of the world increase, and with that population increase, the Majority of the population is becoming more and more, anti-God, anti-Christ, promoting and advocating and tolerant of lewd, immoral, corrupt behavior; as well as feather tapping punishments for lying, cheating, thieving behavior...

Inasmuch as a man can open his eyes those things being a routine tolerant behavior and be upset, mad, angry, disgusted....
* Gods ANGER as well is waxing.
And NOT NEWS, Gods Will shall prevail to END the corruption, greed, underhandedness.

* Men ARE currently Divided.
* Men ARE choosing to be WITH or WITH the Lord God.
* And SOME men ARE choosing Gods Offering of ASSURANCE to FOREVER be “WITH” God.

Those who choose to be “WITH” God, are simply learners, following the Lord Gods teachings, and believing what they are hearing and learning.
* Their KUDOS is...Good for you to hear, learn, follow, Believe.
* Their WARNNG is..BEWARE...BECAUSE there are Evil spirits stronger than you, prowling about readily to cunningly convince you to Reject the Lord God...and HINT....they have greater POWER than you.
* Their WARNING is BEWARE...BECAUSE there are Wicked men stronger than you, who SIT in a ‘kings” seat, that can punish you, IF they do not AGREE with your hearing, learning, following, speaking...
Of your BELIEF, in the Lord God.
(Recall even the govt. closing down churches? Who would have ever thought that would happen in the US? Recall the number of churches that did shut down, for fear of government punishment?)

Point is...
Any man “WITH” the Lord God, can be tricked, conned, threatened, forced to keep his mouth shut About the Lord God, or flat out reject the Lord God....and WHY the Warning?

Because it is better for a man to BE utterly ignorant About God, than to hear, follow along, BELIEVE, enjoy blessing of God....THEN TURN Against God, Because of their Fear of Evil spirits, or Because of their Fear of Wicked mens threats, punishments.......RATHER THAN, their TRUST IN GOD, be greater than their fear of created spirits and men

Point is...
The ASSURANCE to NEVER be Separated FROM being WITH God, is expressly BY a man Choosing...to Accept Gods Offering of “His Baptism”, that HIS SPIRIT, would not ONLY be WITH a man...BUT IN that man.....
AND who or what.....?? Created evil spirits? Created wicked men? Have a POWER Greater than God? ZIP.

Point is...
A man WITH Gods Spirit in that man....NOTHING whatsoever can, coheres, scare, frighten a man to Reject the Lord God, and acquiesce, fall for, the cunning trickery of evil spirits or wicked men.

The ONLY WAY, a man CAN RECEIVE Gods Holy Baptism...IS:
* Be forgiven for having HAD disbelief.
* Willingly give his BODY unto Death.
.....As did OT men continue Believing until their Body died.
.....As men can continue to Do, (and HOPE to not fall for cunning trickery).
....OR willingly crucified with Christ & THUS be MADE Baptized, with the Holy Spirit, by the Power of God.
....OR “IF” alive DURING Gods Tribulation, physically give their body unto Death for their Belief in the Lord God.

Crucified with Christ....are already Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
....God has no anger toward them.
....God has no end of days, during Gods Tribulation for them to suffer Wrath....because they have NEITER rejected God or the Lamb or Christ Jesus.

^ THEY are called.....IN Christ....Christ’s Church...the ONES to be CALLED UP, before Gods Tribulation Begins.

^ TO THEM ^ APPLIES the Pre-Tribulation Rapture...
^ THEY are DELIVERED FROM end of day Tribulation.
^ THEY are raised, body, soul, spirit....and return with Christ Jesus, to occupy his earthy Kingdom...1,000 years...the more prophecy to be fulfilled.

** ALL others shall suffer SOME or ALL of the End of Days (as we know them)...Tribulations, Wrath’s, sufferings, punishments, God shall send down from Heaven...

* SOME or ALL? Men shall DURING the Tribulation Come into Belief and THEN bodily Killed....and their soul saved then....Body raised in glory later...After 1,000 yr reign.

* SOME or ALL? During the Tribulation Some men will never Come into Belief and BE Killed, they soul not saved....bodily raised later in damnation....after 1,000 yr reign...and judged.

Pre-trib....same as rapture.....FOR dead bodys, raised up, glorified body, saved soul, quickened spirit...together with their Lord above the face of the earth, WHILE Gods Tribulation is destroying the earth.

Mid-trib...Body’s killed....not raised...not yet glorified....yet souls are saved and risen up to heaven to wait....to after 1,000 yrs reign...then body’s raised.

Post-trib....Believers, (not converted IN Christ while alive), but yet believed on the day their body died....body’s returning to dust, soul saved and in heaven...Shall be raised, in a glorified body, after 1,000 yr reign, have a saved soul, will receive their quickened spirit, occupy the New Earth WITH God forever.

Post-trib...NON-Believers, (not a saved soul, no quickened spirit,) dead body raised, (not a glorified body), face judgement and final sentencing, of separation from God forever.

@Taken Great to look at the subject from a deeper, doctrinal perspective.

I love also how in a sublime and practical way the Lord's Supper is linked with the Rapture of the church: 'till He come' (1 Corinthians 11.26).