What exactly is pre-Tribulation, Tribulation and Rapture?

[Taken]

Hmm I don't think Jesus said any of that stuff did he?
His message was beautifully simple and uncomplicated, namely the good go straight to heaven and the bad go straight to hell..

A mans understanding of “a good man”, has no guarantee he will to go straight to heaven.

A man SEES his body.
Study reveals, the whole of a man IS;
His body, his soul, his spirit.
Each of those things HAVE a specific LIFE.
...BODY....life....BLOOD <—- created by God
...SOUL....life....Gods Breath <—- is given of God
...SPIRIT...life....Gods TRUTH, born of Gods SEED. <—- is given of God
Each of those things RECEIVE it’s LIFE at a specific time.
Each of those things “LIVES”, must be Wholly Accountable unto God.

Sure its is very simple IF you disregard, ignore, those three specific things, and it’s life thereof, and IF, WHEN, HOW...a man can RECEIVE, thus become MADE wholly acceptable unto God.

1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[farouk]

A mans understanding of “a good man”, has no guarantee he will to go straight to heaven.

A man SEES his body.
Study reveals, the whole of a man IS;
His body, his soul, his spirit.
Each of those things HAVE a specific LIFE.
...BODY....life....BLOOD <—- created by God
...SOUL....life....Gods Breath <—- is given of God
...SPIRIT...life....Gods TRUTH, born of Gods SEED. <—- is given of God
Each of those things RECEIVE it’s LIFE at a specific time.
Each of those things “LIVES”, must be Wholly Accountable unto God.

Sure its is very simple IF you disregard, ignore, those three specific things, and it’s life thereof, and IF, WHEN, HOW...a man can RECEIVE, thus become MADE wholly acceptable unto God.

1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Glory to God,
Taken

@Taken That verse your quoted reminds me of Robert Murray M'Cheyne:

"When I stand before the Throne,
Dressed in beauty not my own...."

 

[Phoneman777]

Surely the terms "soul" and 'breath of life" are the same thing?
And as for "returning to God", does that include the soul/breath of all nonchristians?

Differentiation exists between the two. The Soul is the whole comprised of the two parts, the Body and the Breath of Life.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, at the Second Coming, the wicked will at that present time drop dead (present tense) "at the brightness of His coming", but after 1,000 years (future tense) all the wicked that have ever lived shall be resurrected, judged and found guilty, and cast into the Lake of Fire to suffer the Second Death, a permanent death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection.

None of this is contextual to the passage in question:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19 :: King James Version (KJV)

Revelation 19:15 Interlinear: and out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and he doth tread the press of the wine of the wrath and the anger of God the Almighty,


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.

 

[Phoneman777]

None of this is contextual to the passage in question:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19 :: King James Version (KJV)

Revelation 19:15 Interlinear: and out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and he doth tread the press of the wine of the wrath and the anger of God the Almighty,


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.

I see what passage to which you refer. You need to read Daniel 2 and the rest of Scripture along with Revelation, friend.


John is seeing future events, where Jesus will come having (present tense) a "sharp sword" which is His WORD, not a literal sword.

With that "sword" He "shall" (future tense) destroy the nations at His coming, in accordance with the Stone in Daniel 2. Does the great image continue to exist when the Stone arrives, or is it obliterated? Therefore, your interpretation violates Daniel 2.

At the time of His ruling over the nations with a rod of iron, smashing them to pieces, He "treads down the winepress" - have you seen what happens to grapes when they're tread down? That's what we're seeing here.

After the 1,000 years, the wicked will be raised and again face the wrath of God in the Lake of Fire.

 

[ewq1938]

You are not understanding what the verb tenses mean. Some things happen at the Armageddon second coming, while something else does not happen then. The ruling of the nations DOES NOT happen at the second coming. That happens after the second coming according to the Holy text.

That proves that the SDA and the Amill Catholic teachings that all the unsaved die at the second coming is not scriptural. Scripture promises a rule over the nations AFTER the second coming which is what Premill accurately teaches.

I see what passage to which you refer. You need to read Daniel 2 and the rest of Scripture along with Revelation, friend.


John is seeing future events, where Jesus will come having (present tense) a "sharp sword" which is His WORD, not a literal sword.

With that "sword" He "shall" (future tense) destroy the nations at His coming, in accordance with the Stone in Daniel 2. Does the great image continue to exist when the Stone arrives, or is it obliterated? Therefore, your interpretation violates Daniel 2.

At the time of His ruling over the nations with a rod of iron, smashing them to pieces, He "treads down the winepress" - have you seen what happens to grapes when they're tread down? That's what we're seeing here.

After the 1,000 years, the wicked will be raised and again face the wrath of God in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Phoneman777]

You are not understanding what the verb tenses mean. Some things happen at the Armageddon second coming, while something else does not happen then. The ruling of the nations DOES NOT happen at the second coming. That happens after the second coming according to the Holy text.

When the Stone strikes the image of Daniel 2, how much of that image remains?

That proves that the SDA and the Amill Catholic teachings that all the unsaved die at the second coming is not scriptural.

I assure you SDA doctrine is solid. It's those who think they're be a continuation of life down here after Jesus comes as a thief that are off base. Statue in Daniel 2 is crumbled and the wind "carried them away", the wicked are destroyed "at the brightness of His coming", the bodies of the wicked litter the ground "at the presence of the Lord and by His fierce anger", etc. etc. etc.

Scripture promises a rule over the nations AFTER the second coming which is what Premill accurately teaches.

Yes, 1,000 years after the Second Coming, Jesus will "rule all the nations with a rod of iron" when He destroys them for all eternity in the Lake of Fire. I find it curious that you think He'll rule over broken, shattered, splintered, pieces of kingdoms, which is what the "rod of iron" rule will be over them: destruction.

 

[Dropship]

..The tribulation is first to bring Israel to repentance.

So is God is going to say to them "Stop being jews and become christians or go to hell"?
Sounds like he's giving them a second chance..
And which of them is going to be dumb enough to say "Thanks but no thanks, we'll stay jewish?

 

[ewq1938]

I assure you SDA doctrine is solid.

It solidly goes against scripture on this topic. Scripture promises the nations will be ruled over past the second coming yet you still promote an unscriptural global slaughter. You are also making up your own definition for the Greek word RULE, as it is a peaceful and helpful rule, not a violent rule.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


RULE

G4165
poimaino
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
poimaino
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

There is nothing violent about poimaino.

 

[Phoneman777]

It solidly goes against scripture on this topic. Scripture promises the nations will be ruled over past the second coming yet you still promote an unscriptural global slaughter. You are also making up your own definition for the Greek word RULE, as it is a peaceful and helpful rule, not a violent rule.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


RULE

G4165
poimaino
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
poimaino
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

There is nothing violent about poimaino.

Doesn't Psalm 2 say when God gives the world as an inheritance to Jesus, He will "break them with a rod of iron, and will dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel"? You must allow the rest of the Bible to interpret Revelation, and not interpret Revelation with Revelation alone, AS YOU DO. When Revelation says Jesus is going to "rule all nations with a rod of iron" with accompanying verses of destruction like "tread down the winepress" and "smite the nations", we must understand the symbolism through the lens of Psalm 2.

I've shown you there's no way life on Earth can continue down here after Jesus comes as a thief in the night, but you refuse to accept the plain words of Scripture, and then proceed to Revelation 19 as "proof" that life will indeed continue. You ignore Jeremiah's apocalyptic words about the end times, describing the Earth as desolate "without form" and with "no man" when all the cities are "broken down at the presence of the Lord and by His fierce anger" - that is the Second Coming. He says "and the slain of the Lord in that day shall be from one end of the Earth even to the other end of Earth" after which "they will not be gathered, nor buried, nor lamented, but they shall be dung on the ground". This must be at the Second Coming, for in the Second Death 1,000 years later they are not left on the ground, but cast into the Lake of Fire.

Why is it so hard to accept what Peter says about when Jesus comes back as a thief? "But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The Earth and also her increase shall be burned up"? The elements are going to burn up. The food and water is going to burn up. The atmosphere is going to burn up." There's not going to be 7 more seconds of life down here when He comes as a thief in the night, let alone 7 years.

 

[ewq1938]

Doesn't Psalm 2 say

Psalms 2 is not relevant here. We are discussing the peaceful rule over the nations after Armageddon, something SDA's and Amill's deny since both teach no one survives the second coming which isn't scriptural.

 

[Phoneman777]

Psalms 2 is not relevant here. We are discussing the peaceful rule over the nations after Armageddon, something SDA's and Amill's deny since both teach no one survives the second coming which isn't scriptural.

Is Revelation 19:15 KJV symbolic? Yes.
Does the Bible tell us how to interpret its symbolism? Yes, by "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little" and by "holy men (the Bible prophets) which spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost".

Psalms 2 tells you how Jesus will "rule all nations with a rod of iron"...He will CRUSH them as the Stone crushed the statue.

 

[ewq1938]

Psalms 2 tells you how Jesus will "rule all nations with a rod of iron"...He will CRUSH them as the Stone crushed the statue.

Wrong. That passage isn't about ruling with the rod of iron. This is being used to ignore the proper context in Rev 19, a peaceful ruling AFTER Armageddon. You won't even accept the meaning of the Greek word in favor of your doctrinal bias.

 

[Phoneman777]

Wrong. That passage isn't about ruling with the rod of iron. This is being used to ignore the proper context in Rev 19, a peaceful ruling AFTER Armageddon. You won't even accept the meaning of the Greek word in favor of your doctrinal bias.

I'm not wrong because our point of contention is whether they're be life on Earth after the glorious appearing of Christ: you claim it will continue uninterrupted for all eternity, while Peter says when He comes as a thief in the night, the whole thing will implode. Jeremiah also speaks of a coming period of desolation. Isaiah says the same about the planet: "reel to a fro like a drunkard", "turneth it upside down"; "empty"; "waste"; "clean dissolved" and Peter wants to know why you, ewq1938, can't see that "all these things shall be dissolved" in 2 Peter 3.

You keep insisting that "rule over the nations with a rod of iron" is proof for your argument, while I've shown you that Psalms 2 defines what that means: "Thou shalt break them with a rod iron; Thou shalt dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel".

So, you see, Revelation 19:15 KJV is no evidence at all for life continuing on Earth after Jesus comes gloriously in the clouds to us and the dead and living saints are gathered by the angels up there to Him.

 

[ewq1938]

You keep insisting that "rule over the nations with a rod of iron" is proof for your argument, while I've shown you that Psalms 2 defines what that means: "Thou shalt break them with a rod iron; Thou shalt dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel".

And that has nothing to do with ruling the nations. You are misusing it.

So, you see, Revelation 19:15 KJV is no evidence at all for life continuing on Earth after Jesus comes gloriously in the clouds to us and the dead and living saints are gathered by the angels up there to Him.

It is evidence that the nations are alive to be ruled over after the killing at Armageddon is over. The Millennium is when the nations are ruled over.

 

[Phoneman777]

And that has nothing to do with ruling the nations. You are misusing it.

Bro, PLEASE READ Psalms 2! It says right there that God is going to give to Jesus "the nations" for His inheritance and He "will break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces". Totally explains the symbolism of Revelation 19:15 KJV.

 

[ewq1938]

Bro, PLEASE READ Psalms 2! It says right there that God is going to give to Jesus "the nations" for His inheritance and He "will break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces". Totally explains the symbolism of Revelation 19:15 KJV.

Psalms 2 is not related to Rev 19. In it the rod is destroying, but in Rev 19 a future rule by the rod is promised and RULE in the Greek means to take care of someone peacefully like a Shepherd. You ignore that to uphold your denomination's faulty teachings. You ignore Rev 19's context, reject the definition of the Greek word, and point to an unrelated OT text all designed to throw away what Rev 19 actually tells us. You are mishandling the text and falsely teaching. Even Rev 2 proves the nations will be ruled over AFTER THE SECOND COMING, but go ahead and ignore that also.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.