What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

[GodsGrace]

I don't quite understand your stance here. Every time a person or group learns something more, then they have learned something new to them. To not be learning something is to just not be learning at all and instead atrophy. It seems like total silence between man and God.

Sorry if I'm being dense here and just not "getting" what you're saying, and thank you for your patience in explaining it to me.

Actually, I feel the reason we should be here is to listen to each other and come to some agreement between us.

I think you just need to think on it a little.
I can't think of a good example and I should be able to.

Let's say you like shopping at a big store.
Walmart.

But it's so big.
Every time you go there you discover a new department.

But you're still in Walmart..you're not in a DIFFERENT STORE.

IOW...The Covenant (which I haven't read yet) 138
Is everything in there in the bible and did Jesus teach these things and JS is just EXPOUNDING on them....which every commentator does...
OR
Is he creating some kind of NEW teaching.

For instance, you could believe we get a second chance if you want to...
however, Jesus never taught this,,,it's not mainline Christianity.
Why? Because it's a new teaching that was never heard of BEFORE Joseph Smith.

Any help?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What do you mean, NO JESUS YET?
Till the 2nd coming....

Correct.

what does the person do in the meantime?

Wait.

WHO is preaching to them?

Spirits those Christ's disciples that have passed on.

Could these be the "ghosts" we hear about? (I'm serious).

Possibly, though I wouldn't assume anything by default.

I don't know ANYONE who knows for sure who those spirits in prison are.
I can't even talk about it. And 4:6 is the same.

Well now you've met a such a person . Obviously you don't have to agree with me-- your beliefs are yours.

Luke 16 is Hades where the dead waited for Jesus death and resurrection.
Those that were saved were waiting in Abraham's bossom,,,those that were not saved were divided by a chasm and in "torment".
When Jesus opened the gates of heaven...those in Abraham's Bossom went to heaven, and so has everyone else since Jesus died.
Mathew 27:51

Exactly-- opening that gate. Not just for those that had died before Christ's mortal death, but many others.

(to be continued)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Regarding the Covenant 138
HERE is my problem....
Why should I care what vision Joseph Smith had?
No. Really. Why?
He's just another guy, right?

Speaking my beliefs here: I do believe that he was a prophet of God.
As to why you should believe: not because I said anything. Ultimately the testimony of the Truthfulness of anything should be borne from testimony of the Holy Spirit, not me or any other man.

I really would like to read that whole chapter but it's getting late here...tomorrow.

Totally cool I more provided it just as a reference, cause it is long. This link here is a more digestible introductionary sum-up.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...apter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

This is the same problem I have with John Calvin.
HIS institutions are quoted and read and believed.
It's like HE is more important than scripture.

Some think the catholic church is like this...
but it's not. NO ONE MAN is revered in the catholic church.
One woman is,,,but she didn't come up with any theology.

Do you see my point?
I think what you believe is OK...
but I don't like that there's a MAN at the head of the church.

I'm going to be point blank here:
My Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ. He and Heavenly Father are my ultimate loves and devotion too.
Peter or Paul or Joseph Smith or Noah or Moses or James or whoever don't remotely rank up there. And if someone has starts putting them on a pedestal, then their sinful butt is in for a rude awakening.
If I want to know the Truthfulness of anything, I get down on my knees and ask God. He is King.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Actually, I feel the reason we should be here is to listen to each other and come to some agreement between us.

I think you just need to think on it a little.
I can't think of a good example and I should be able to.

Let's say you like shopping at a big store.
Walmart.

But it's so big.
Every time you go there you discover a new department.

But you're still in Walmart..you're not in a DIFFERENT STORE.

IOW...The Covenant (which I haven't read yet) 138
Is everything in there in the bible and did Jesus teach these things and JS is just EXPOUNDING on them....which every commentator does...
OR
Is he creating some kind of NEW teaching.

For instance, you could believe we get a second chance if you want to...
however, Jesus never taught this,,,it's not mainline Christianity.
Why? Because it's a new teaching that was never heard of BEFORE Joseph Smith.

Any help?

Honestly that didn't help. Though I do appreciate the effort.

 

[GodsGrace]

Speaking my beliefs here: I do believe that he was a prophet of God.
As to why you should believe: not because I said anything. Ultimately the testimony of the Truthfulness of anything should be borne from testimony of the Holy Spirit, not me or any other man.

Totally cool I more provided it just as a reference, cause it is long. This link here is a more digestible introductionary sum-up.
Chapter 41: The Postmortal Spirit World

I'm going to be point blank here:
My Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ. He and Heavenly Father are my ultimate loves and devotion too.
Peter or Paul or Joseph Smith or Noah or Moses or James or whoever don't remotely rank up there. And if someone has starts putting them on a pedestal, then their sinful butt is in for a rude awakening.
If I want to know the Truthfulness of anything, I get down on my knees and ask God. He is King.

OK. So what you're saying is that you read the bible (N.T. mainly) and AGREE with JS? Which is pretty much what we all do no matter where or how we learn.

I read the short version and I don't find anything particularly awful about it.
I hear some say that LDS are not Christian and I'm wondering why.

It's not absolutely certain what happens to us after death.
It could well be the way you believe...I'd NEVER debate you on this.

One question:
The people in the dark place...
some from paradise are witnessing to them?
So they could speak to each other?

And if one in the dark place accepts?
Does he move over into paradise?

I still say they'd have to be crazy to say no.

I like the idea that you carry with you your love or antagonism from this life.
This is a common belief. Heaven starts here on earth.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

OK. So what you're saying is that you read the bible (N.T. mainly) and AGREE with JS?

And read rests of God's apsotles/prophets words and diligently prayer/study myself.

I read the short version and I don't find anything particularly awful about it.
I hear some say that LDS are not Christian and I'm wondering why.

There's a LOT of bad information out there, some put out innocently, some with downright hatred. You'd be amazed how many times I've been asked how many moms I have, told I don't believe Christ is the Son of God, that I don't believe the Bible is God's Words, etc. In reality, LDS Christians are Christians. Not Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox or Creedal, but still Christians.

It's not absolutely certain what happens to us after death.
It could well be the way you believe...I'd NEVER debate you on this..

No worries- I make a goal to AVOID debates whenever possible, because I find them unproductive and blindness-brewing. I just strive to better understand others and be understood myself. God shall testify of Truth wherever Truth is found.

One question:
The people in the dark place...
some from paradise are witnessing to them?
So they could speak to each other?

And if one in the dark place accepts?
Does he move over into paradise?

Yes and yes. Accepting Christ is always a joyful and freeing experience.

I still say they'd have to be crazy to say no.

Just like the people that refuse Christ today?

I like the idea that you carry with you your love or antagonism from this life.
This is a common belief. Heaven starts here on earth.

*thumbs up*

 

[GodsGrace]

And read rests of God's apsotles/prophets words and diligently prayer/study myself.

There's a LOT of bad information out there, some put out innocently, some with downright hatred. You'd be amazed how many times I've been asked how many moms I have, told I don't believe Christ is the Son of God, that I don't believe the Bible is God's Words, etc. In reality, LDS Christians are Christians. Not Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox or Creedal, but still Christians.

No worries- I make a goal to AVOID debates whenever possible, because I find them unproductive and blindness-brewing. I just strive to better understand others and be understood myself. God shall testify of Truth wherever Truth is found.

Yes and yes. Accepting Christ is always a joyful and freeing experience.

Just like the people that refuse Christ today?

*thumbs up*

Just one comment:
Those that refuse Christ today are here on earth and not sure God exists or that there's even an after-life.

They will after they die under your scenario....
I just can't imagine anyone saying NO to the invitation to go to the other side.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Just one comment:
Those that refuse Christ today are here on earth and not sure God exists or that there's even an after-life.

They will after they die under your scenario....
I just can't imagine anyone saying NO to the invitation to go to the other side.

 

[GodsGrace]

Uh oh. I don't like the looks of that smile!!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Uh oh. I don't like the looks of that smile!!

Haha.

I'm a person who find arguing about beliefs to be downright counterproductive. I LOVE coming to better understand other people's beliefs, and explaining my own. I think I understand yours here.

 

[reformed1689]

Baptisms for the dead doesn't involve any corpse or anything gross like that. Or any "making someone Mormon". Rather, it is a baptism done by proxy for each person, and that person (who is biologically deceased, but still has a living spirit) has the choice whether or not to accept that baptism and taking upon Christ's name.

False, this is not biblical.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

False, this is not biblical.

David, LDS Christians aren't sola Biblia. I've never met a truly sola Biblia person.

I acknowledge that you don't like what you think I believe. That's fine, I don't care. If you want to better understand what I *actually* believe, you're feel free to ask. But if your goal is to: have me follow you, or parrot your interpretation of scripture, I'm going to decline and ask you not to try to insult either of us in such a way. You're not my Savior.

 

[reformed1689]

David, LDS Christians aren't sola Biblia. I've never met a truly sola Biblia person.

I acknowledge that you don't like what you think I believe. That's fine, I don't care. If you want to better understand what I *actually* believe, you're feel free to ask. But if your goal is to: have me follow you, or parrot your interpretation of scripture, I'm going to decline and ask you not to try to insult either of us in such a way. You're not my Savior.

Was Jesus created or has he always been?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Was Jesus created or has he always been?

Always has been.

Want a bunch of scriptures saying that?

 

[reformed1689]

David, LDS Christians aren't sola Biblia. I've never met a truly sola Biblia person.

There is a difference between sola scriptura, of which I am, and solo scriptura of which I am not.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Addressing @Ezra 's questions--

what i am looking for is doctrine of the church/ death baptism? standing in for the dead to go to heaven.salvation by grace through faith or is there work based salvation. the teaching of eternal damnation/ everlasting life

Starting with the salvation question:

Salvation is a gift from God to each believer. It is free. You cannot "earn" it-- the very idea of "earning" it is downright laughable. Rather it comes through faith, as a gift from God. This true believer's faith is not merely saying shallowly "yeah, I believe" and then continuing about your same-old-same-old sinful ways. Rather a believer's faith is a living thing and an entire transformation of a person-- being reborn in the blood of the Lamb. Giving one's entire might, might, soul, word, & deed to Him and being reformed.

Make sense?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

There is a difference between sola scriptura, of which I am, and solo scriptura of which I am not.

I totally acknowledge you and your beliefs.

 

[Ezra]

Addressing @Ezra 's questions--

Starting with the salvation question:

Salvation is a gift from God to each believer. It is free. You cannot "earn" it-- the very idea of "earning" it is downright laughable. Rather it comes through faith, as a gift from God. This true believer's faith is not merely saying shallowly "yeah, I believe" and then continuing about your same-old-same-old sinful ways. Rather a believer's faith is a living thing and an entire transformation of a person-- being reborn in the blood of the Lamb. Giving one's entire might, might, soul, word, & deed to Him and being reformed.

Make sense?

i am still on the fence things i still question not so much about you. but church doctrine.the death baptism is not Bible and it makes it a false teaching . much like purgatory

 

[Jane_Doe22]

i am still on the fence things i still question not so much about you. but church doctrine.the death baptism is not Bible and it makes it a false teaching . much like purgatory

We could go talk 1 Corinthians 15:29, but I think the bigger picture topic here is the "Are all of God's Truth in the Bible and no where else?" For me, I find that God's Truths are not constrained just what's in the Bible. I totally acknowledge and respect that others believe otherwise, of course.

 

[Ezra]

We could go talk 1 Corinthians 15:29, but I think the bigger picture topic here is the "Are all of God's Truth in the Bible and no where else?" For me, I find that God's Truths are not constrained just what's in the Bible. I totally acknowledge and respect that others believe otherwise, of course.

sorry this was just a man made custom. the doctrine of justification does not fit in death baptism.. you have on scripture that some man made a doctrine out of. see in this life you have to make your election and calling sure. after we die there is no second chance Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. in order for this to happen one must have a sound mind of understanding . water does not cleanse us its the blood that does that