What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

[aspen]

I just found this thread, Jane doe
Thanks for posting it.
I wrote a personal creed when I first got here, as well
Blessings!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

sorry this was just a man made custom. the doctrine of justification does not fit in death baptism.. you have on scripture that some man made a doctrine out of. see in this life you have to make your election and calling sure. after we die there is no second chance Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. in order for this to happen one must have a sound mind of understanding . water does not cleanse us its the blood that does that

A couple of things here--
1) LDS Christians aren't Calvinists nor believers in Once Saved Always Saved.

2) Actual explanation of LDS Christian beliefs on baptism for the dead: "Bob" is a person living in some remote place, whom never in his life even hears the name "Jesus". Bob does the best living he knows how, but dies never accepting Jesus as his Savior, because he's never even heard of him. What happens to Bob in the eternities?

You'll get a wide variety different responses to this question throughout Christiandom. Some will say that Bob never accepted Christ and there is no other way, so Bob is just doomed. Some will say that God knows Bob's heart and will judge Bob on what Bob did know. Some will say just "we don't know". Etc.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints answer to this is: God, being both infinitely just and infinitely merciful, will give Bob will have the opportunity to hear of Him after is mortal death. Bob can then choose to embrace Him, or reject Him. Christ gives Bob that opportunity, and it is Bob's choice to make.


So that's my views on that particular subject I totally acknowledge and respect if yours differ.

 

[aspen]

I wonder
What if we picked out the parts of each other’s posts,
We agree with, first?

 

[Ezra]

A couple of things here--
1) LDS Christians aren't Calvinists nor believers in Once Saved Always Saved.

2) Actual explanation of LDS Christian beliefs on baptism for the dead: "Bob" is a person living in some remote place, whom never in his life even hears the name "Jesus". Bob does the best living he knows how, but dies never accepting Jesus as his Savior, because he's never even heard of him. What happens to Bob in the eternities?

You'll get a wide variety different responses to this question throughout Christiandom. Some will say that Bob never accepted Christ and there is no other way, so Bob is just doomed. Some will say that God knows Bob's heart and will judge Bob on what Bob did know. Some will say just "we don't know". Etc.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints answer to this is: God, being both infinitely just and infinitely merciful, will give Bob will have the opportunity to hear of Him after is mortal death. Bob can then choose to embrace Him, or reject Him. Christ gives Bob that opportunity, and it is Bob's choice to make.


So that's my views on that particular subject I totally acknowledge and respect if yours differ.

this is NOT bible

 

[aspen]

this is NOT bible

LDS do not practice Sola Scriptura - they are not Protestant, Ezra

 

[Jane_Doe22]

this is NOT bible

Again: I do not believe that all of God's Truths are just what's in the Bible and nothing beyond that. Rather, I openly acknowledge & celebrate that His wonders extend well beyond those pages and well beyond my tiny understanding.

 

[Ezra]

Again: I do not believe that all of God's Truths are just what's in the Bible and nothing beyond that. Rather, I openly acknowledge & celebrate that His wonders extend well beyond those pages and well beyond my tiny understanding.

the truth is found in scriptures you done a good job presenting salvation . but death baptism has no merit at all. i would compare it to the teaching of purgatory . where else would we find God truth ? hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
i promised i would not rip your head off so to say. but we part ways the Bible basic .instructions. before .leaving . earth

Psalm 119:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

in psalm 119 over 20 times it mentions the importance of the word . if we look into our own trust and times we will. we will fail . the word of God is our every source. anything outside the word is us=flesh =not spirit =carnal

1 Corinthians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. He uses the word to speak to us . please reconsider your source

 

[Jane_Doe22]

the truth is found in scriptures you done a good job presenting salvation . but death baptism has no merit at all. i would compare it to the teaching of purgatory . where else would we find God truth ? hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
i promised i would not rip your head off so to say. but we part ways the Bible basic .instructions. before .leaving . earth

Psalm 119:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

in psalm 119 over 20 times it mentions the importance of the word . if we look into our own trust and times we will. we will fail . the word of God is our every source. anything outside the word is us=flesh =not spirit =carnal

1 Corinthians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. He uses the word to speak to us . please reconsider your source

I am curious: what your beliefs are as to the fate of a person who hasn't heard Christ's message during this life?

Also-- I totally acknowledge whatever you believe, and won't try to change your mind. The most important thing about being a Christian is Christ our Savior, and I've 100% seen your love of Him here on the forums. All other things are secondary.

 

[Ezra]

I am curious: what your beliefs are as to the fate of a person who hasn't heard Christ's message during this life?

curious you are .i will give you a honest answer i don't know .the bible says there is coming a time when the word will be heard all over the world. what can say is in many of the parts of the world . the word of GOD has went out.. for those who have knowledge and reject. the end is not good. i might add we dont judge who gets eternal life and who don't. the Bible says in that day God will judge the secrets of men's heart by his son Christ Jesus . i say this respectfully water baptism does not nor has it ever saved anyone.. so i reject baptism for the dead, due to it not being scripture

 

[Jane_Doe22]

curious you are .i will give you a honest answer i don't know .the bible says there is coming a time when the word will be heard all over the world. what can say is in many of the parts of the world . the word of GOD has went out.. for those who have knowledge and reject. the end is not good. i might add we dont judge who gets eternal life and who don't. the Bible says in that day God will judge the secrets of men's heart by his son Christ Jesus

In the future, yes, God's words will be heard in every corner of the world. But in the past, it was/is not always so. What about those people, whom never had the chance to hear of Christ before they died?

i say this respectfully water baptism does not nor has it ever saved anyone.. so i reject baptism for the dead, due to it not being scripture

Point of clarification: LDS Christians do not believe that the act of being dunked is what saves anyone. Rather a person is saved by faith.

 

[Ezra]

What about those people, whom never had the chance to hear of Christ before they died?

i dont have the authority to judge salvation what i can say is if your name is not written in the lambs book of life. you dont get in.

Point of clarification: LDS Christians do not believe that the act of being dunked is what saves anyone. Rather a person is saved by faith.

then why go by a silly man made thing baptizing for the dead. a dead person has no faith a dead person who has not been saved.has no 2nd chance . think about what i am saying .its like say 2+ 2=5 don't add up

 

[mjrhealth]

Again: I do not believe that all of God's Truths are just what's in the Bible and nothing beyond that. Rather, I openly acknowledge & celebrate that His wonders extend well beyond those pages and well beyond my tiny understanding.

That may be so, but all religion, everyone, limits God or adds to salvation in one way or the other, There is a reason why Jesus said,

Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Thats why they can only and will only follow Christ alone

 

[Jane_Doe22]

i dont have the authority to judge salvation what i can say is if your name is not written in the lambs book of life. you dont get in. then why go by a silly man made thing baptizing for the dead. a dead person has no faith a dead person who has not been saved.has no 2nd chance . think about what i am saying .its like say 2+ 2=5 don't add up

I"ll take this step by step, first talking about the living and the the second post will be about the dead.

A person is saved by faith in Christ. This living faith is foundational: where in the person gives their strength/heart/mind/soul to Christ and is re-born. A part of a new disciple's walk in Christ, they should be baptized, showing their love/devotion to Christ and re-birth in Him. It's important and a commandment from God, but not the foundational thing that's saving anyone (again that's faith).

A person whom gets baptized without faith (like a baby or somebody who just doesn't have it), then they're not really getting baptized. They just got wet.

Does that make sense?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That may be so, but all religion, everyone, limits God or adds to salvation in one way or the other, There is a reason why Jesus said,

Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Thats why they can only and will only follow Christ alone

Not really are what you're going for here.

 

[bbyrd009]

he's kidding himself imo

what is the naive dialectic jane

 

[Ezra]

A person is saved by faith in Christ. This living faith is foundational: where in the person gives their strength/heart/mind/soul to Christ and is re-born. A part of a new disciple's walk in Christ, they should be baptized, showing their love/devotion to Christ and re-birth in Him. It's important and a commandment from God, but not the foundational thing that's saving anyone (again that's faith).

A person whom gets baptized without faith (like a baby or somebody who just doesn't have it), then they're not really getting baptized. They just got wet.

Does that make sense?

yup but has nothing to do with baptizing for the dead . its appointed unto man once to die after this the judgment die lost with out Christ==no hope die with Christ have hope . case closed baptizing for the dead does nothing but get a person wet

 

[Jane_Doe22]

yup but has nothing to do with baptizing for the dead . its appointed unto man once to die after this the judgment die lost with out Christ==no hope die with Christ have hope . case closed baptizing for the dead does nothing but get a person wet

Under such logic very single person who has never heard of Christ is automatically doomed. The end.

While I acknowledge your viewpoint here, I don't shared it. Rather, I believe that while a person may be physically dead, their spirit still lives, and they will then have the opportunity to hear about Christ, and to accept or reject Him. God is infinitely just, and gives every person that opportunity.

 

[Ezra]

While I acknowledge your viewpoint here, I don't shared it. Rather, I believe that while a person may be physically dead, their spirit still lives, and they will then have the opportunity to hear about Christ, and to accept or reject Him. God is infinitely just, and gives every person that opportunity.

according to scriptures your wrong

Under such logic very single person who has never heard of Christ is automatically doomed. The end.

that is not what i said is it? i said i am not the judge, i also said that those who was not in the lambs book of life would not go to heaven. even the bible tells us to die with out christ means no hope.
Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

every thing i posted comes from scripture . will GOD give mercy to those who have never heard of jesus never heard the gospel message . that i dont know. what i can tell you regardless of what you believe there is no 2nd chance to salvation after one dies . that is BIBLE not me. if there is something in scripture that you dont agree with. that says thus saith the word of GOD you take it up with God not mankind.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

according to scriptures your wrong that is not what i said is it? i said i am not the judge, i also said that those who was not in the lambs book of life would not go to heaven. even the bible tells us to die with out christ means no hope.

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

every thing i posted comes from scripture . will GOD give mercy to those who have never heard of jesus never heard the gospel message . that i dont know. what i can tell you regardless of what you believe there is no 2nd chance to salvation after one dies . that is BIBLE not me. if there is something in scripture that you dont agree with. that says thus saith the word of GOD you take it up with God not mankind.

@Ezra, this so just something we're going to disagree on.

For me, Christ's mercy on those that have never heard of Him *is* the chance to later hear of Him and accept Him-- no man gets to Heaven without Him. You MUST accept Christ, that's an unwavering Truth. I don't find that Revelation (or anywhere else in the Bible) says otherwise, and I can't ignore that necessity of accepting Christ or take a stance like "well, maybe God will be nice just let these people into Heaven anyways".

You disagree with my view, and I acknowledge that. I'm not going to try to chance your mind at all.

 

[bbyrd009]

No one has ever gone up to heaven ladies
you and your sons will be here with me