What if I don’t want eternal life?

[quietthinker]

What if I don’t want eternal life?​

It wont be forced on you, that is certain!

 

[quietthinker]

The unfortunate part is that they are in different garb and in different faiths….when there should never have been a distinction between those who call themselves “Christians” in the first place. When Jesus walked the earth, the Jewish faith had become sectarian and he condemned them for that, and for adopting the “traditions of men“ and claiming them as doctrines.

Jesus said that Isaiah had prophesied about them…..that was over 700 years before Jesus was born as a human.
”You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9)

The divided state of Christendom, like the Jewish religion of the first century, is more widely sectarian than Judaism ever was, and all are teaching doctrines that are “man-made”, rather than Bible based.

In that quarreling rabble of denominationalism, the diamond of truth was lost under a pile of broken glass.

The devil, Jesus said, was going to create a counterfeit Christianity that would confuse people and create friction between them…..and isn’t that what we see? Where is the love?
John said that this is what would identify Christ’s true followers…”love among yourselves”….(John 13:34-35) which in today’s world translates to “love in your own denomination”. Yet when it comes to times of political conflict, what do we see? That thin veneer of love will buckle and fold if those in your particular denomination are divided over political matters. That is one of the things that stood out to me in my own church. Politics was a divider.

In the two world wars of last century, did we not see Catholic killing Catholic, and Protestant killing Protestant, based on their nationality? Are Christians to be identified by their nationality? Or are they to be one united Christian brotherhood who are devoted to God and to each other? No government has the right to declare our brothers “enemies of the state” and expect that we will take up arms and kill them for political reasons.
Even today we see with Russia and Ukraine, both are “Catholic” countries, but who operate under a national banner. Where is God when Christians are at war with one another? Whose side does he take?

True Christians will stand out as different, refusing to take a political stance that would justify bloodshed against their own brothers in the faith.

“If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.” (1 John 4:20-21)

I totally agree…..and we know that God hates hypocrisy….so if we see such in our own ranks, something should be done to rectify it. No church is an isolated entity with no accountability to the entire brotherhood.
But in order for that brotherhood to operate cohesively, they need a central governing body to oversee the whole membership. Overseers were used in the first century to keep an eye on any who flouted God’s moral laws, or who would cause divisions in the congregations, and remove any who refused to repent or who continued to caused dissent.
1 Cor 5:9-13 shows us that those who sinned unrepentantly or cause conflict in the brotherhood must be removed. Yet what do we see in the churches today? Are sinners removed, or are clergy too afraid of reproving their members for fear that they will go elsewhere and take money away from the church that supports a minister’s lifestyle?
Were first century ministers paid to take care of the flock? What did Paul say about that?

He set a fine example for Christian elders. (Congregations were guided by a body of elders, never just one man) Though he was an apostle and could have been “an expensive burden” on the Christians in Thessalonica…..he did not “eat food from anyone free.” Rather, he ‘labored and toiled night and day’ to support himself. (2 Thess 3:8, 9)
No one should be paid a wage to do the Lord’s work.…we are slaves not employees.

This is such an important Scripture….”love” must be the motivating force for all we do as Christians. Our brothers, no matter where they may live in the world, are precious to God, and they should be precious to us as well.
We would never support bloodshed as a participant in war, nor be directed to act in an unchristian way towards them, even to give tacit support to those conflicts.
Looking at the Middle East, as it is a hotbed of hatred and violence, who could support Israel or their enemies in this wanton bloodshed. If God was with Israel, no foreign allies would be necessary to provide military support for them. In ancient times, when Israel relied on foreign powers to support them, God deserted them and gave victory to their enemies. Jews to this day, despise Christians, yet will happily rely on their arms and soldiers.

True Christians have no political ideologies to support…they are proponents of God’s Kingdom, not man’s.
We are to be “no part of the world” as Jesus said… (John 17:16: 18:36)

What are your thoughts on this? What does it mean to be ”no part of the world”?

Ahhhh, Pharisees.....everybody is one except you and me!......what? do you think I'm one as well?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Ahhhh, Pharisees.....everybody is one except you and me!......what? do you think I'm one as well?

LOL…the Pharisees who were condemned by Christ, were the leadership of one sect of Judaism, opposed to another powerful Jewish sect called the Sadducees……both were condemned by Jesus because they taught “the commands of men as doctrines”…..so are you the leader of your own faith? Or are you a follower of someone else’s faith?

Do you make the rules of your own religion?…are any of us permitted to do that?
Do you meet regularly to instruct your brotherhood in the faith?
Are you encouraging others in fulfilling the great commission?
Is your faith backed up by works?
What were the requirements for Christian overseers in the first century and have they changed?
Only you can answer those questions for yourself.

But where are you in the big picture QT? Are you in a cohesive global brotherhood…or out on a limb in a very remote part of one country, talking to people in riddles, which are for the most part, not understood?
Who does God see when he looks down on us, all divided up and challenging each others beliefs?

 

[quietthinker]

LOL…the Pharisees who were condemned by Christ, were the leadership of one sect of Judaism, opposed to another powerful Jewish sect called the Sadducees……both were condemned by Jesus because they taught “the commands of men as doctrines”…..so are you the leader of your own faith? Or are you a follower of someone else’s faith?

Do you make the rules of your own religion?…are any of us permitted to do that?
Do you meet regularly to instruct your brotherhood in the faith?
Are you encouraging others in fulfilling the great commission?
Is your faith backed up by works?
What were the requirements for Christian overseers in the first century and have they changed?
Only you can answer those questions for yourself.

But where are you in the big picture QT? Are you in a cohesive global brotherhood…or out on a limb in a very remote part of one country, talking to people in riddles, which are for the most part, not understood?
Who does God see when he looks down on us, all divided up and challenging each others beliefs?

I guess the rules you've outlined here set you up to sit in judgement of all and sundry. As for me AJ, I'm just a sinner who has many shortcomings of which I am acutely aware. If it weren't for Gods grace and the assurance I get from knowing that Jesus loves me as does the Father, I'd be sunk with a lot less than a bunker buster. I hope that's not too hard a riddle to sort out?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I guess the rules you've outlined here set you up to sit in judgement of all and sundry. As for me AJ, I'm just a sinner who has many shortcomings of which I am acutely aware. If it weren't for Gods grace and the assurance I get from knowing that Jesus loves me as does the Father, I'd be sunk with a lot less than a bunker buster. I hope that's not too hard a riddle to sort out?

I really don’t think you have any idea how you come across to other people, QT. You yourself are quite judgmental in the things you say to me. But I don’t always know why.
I am not your judge any more than you are mine, but your short responses to me always have a sting attached for some reason.

The “rules”, if that is what you want to call them, are outlined in the Bible, whether you accept them or not is up to you.

 

[TiredSoul]

TiredSoul, I can't tell you how much good that did me to read. I could not have read a better reply. You have clearly come a long way, and although you still carry the scar, you have taken all the counsel and wisdom from the Lord and applied it. I know that was indeed a process. I salute you and praise Him.
Be always strengthened in trusting in His faithfulness.

Thank you PS95. I agree that it is a process, and I believe that I still have a long way to go.

 

[TiredSoul]

Ahhhh, Pharisees.....everybody is one except you and me!......what? do you think I'm one as well?

The unfortunate part is that they are in different garb and in different faiths….when there should never have been a distinction between those who call themselves “Christians” in the first place. When Jesus walked the earth, the Jewish faith had become sectarian and he condemned them for that, and for adopting the “traditions of men“ and claiming them as doctrines.

Jesus said that Isaiah had prophesied about them…..that was over 700 years before Jesus was born as a human.
”You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9)

The divided state of Christendom, like the Jewish religion of the first century, is more widely sectarian than Judaism ever was, and all are teaching doctrines that are “man-made”, rather than Bible based.

In that quarreling rabble of denominationalism, the diamond of truth was lost under a pile of broken glass.

The devil, Jesus said, was going to create a counterfeit Christianity that would confuse people and create friction between them…..and isn’t that what we see? Where is the love?
John said that this is what would identify Christ’s true followers…”love among yourselves”….(John 13:34-35) which in today’s world translates to “love in your own denomination”. Yet when it comes to times of political conflict, what do we see? That thin veneer of love will buckle and fold if those in your particular denomination are divided over political matters. That is one of the things that stood out to me in my own church. Politics was a divider.

In the two world wars of last century, did we not see Catholic killing Catholic, and Protestant killing Protestant, based on their nationality? Are Christians to be identified by their nationality? Or are they to be one united Christian brotherhood who are devoted to God and to each other? No government has the right to declare our brothers “enemies of the state” and expect that we will take up arms and kill them for political reasons.
Even today we see with Russia and Ukraine, both are “Catholic” countries, but who operate under a national banner. Where is God when Christians are at war with one another? Whose side does he take?

True Christians will stand out as different, refusing to take a political stance that would justify bloodshed against their own brothers in the faith.

“If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.” (1 John 4:20-21)

I totally agree…..and we know that God hates hypocrisy….so if we see such in our own ranks, something should be done to rectify it. No church is an isolated entity with no accountability to the entire brotherhood.
But in order for that brotherhood to operate cohesively, they need a central governing body to oversee the whole membership. Overseers were used in the first century to keep an eye on any who flouted God’s moral laws, or who would cause divisions in the congregations, and remove any who refused to repent or who continued to caused dissent.
1 Cor 5:9-13 shows us that those who sinned unrepentantly or cause conflict in the brotherhood must be removed. Yet what do we see in the churches today? Are sinners removed, or are clergy too afraid of reproving their members for fear that they will go elsewhere and take money away from the church that supports a minister’s lifestyle?
Were first century ministers paid to take care of the flock? What did Paul say about that?

He set a fine example for Christian elders. (Congregations were guided by a body of elders, never just one man) Though he was an apostle and could have been “an expensive burden” on the Christians in Thessalonica…..he did not “eat food from anyone free.” Rather, he ‘labored and toiled night and day’ to support himself. (2 Thess 3:8, 9)
No one should be paid a wage to do the Lord’s work.…we are slaves not employees.

This is such an important Scripture….”love” must be the motivating force for all we do as Christians. Our brothers, no matter where they may live in the world, are precious to God, and they should be precious to us as well.
We would never support bloodshed as a participant in war, nor be directed to act in an unchristian way towards them, even to give tacit support to those conflicts.
Looking at the Middle East, as it is a hotbed of hatred and violence, who could support Israel or their enemies in this wanton bloodshed. If God was with Israel, no foreign allies would be necessary to provide military support for them. In ancient times, when Israel relied on foreign powers to support them, God deserted them and gave victory to their enemies. Jews to this day, despise Christians, yet will happily rely on their arms and soldiers.

True Christians have no political ideologies to support…they are proponents of God’s Kingdom, not man’s.
We are to be “no part of the world” as Jesus said… (John 17:16: 18:36)

What are your thoughts on this? What does it mean to be ”no part of the world”?

One thing I have learned is that people will continue to do things that I don't like - some big, some small. And, I have no control. Heck! I have enough trouble controlling myself sometimes!

Another thing I have learned is that I don't really know what is right - for me or for anyone else. Sometimes things that appear to be bad turn out for the good, and sometimes the reverse occurs. Think of Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery. That appeared to be terrible for Joseph, but it was all part of God's plan.

If I don't know what is right, how can I attempt to control events with any confidence that I am not getting in the way and making things worse?

Finally, when I become invested in any particular outcome, I lose my serenity. An expectation is a premeditated disappointment, and possibly a resentment. This separates me from God.

So, for me, being "no part of the world" means "letting go, and letting God". There may be people around who are sufficiently knowledgeable and competent to make the right decisions and take the necessary actions, but I'm not one of them.

Wars are terrible, but sometimes necessary. Apparently, God accepts them, and there are numerous instances in the Bible where God commanded or executed the destruction of certain people(s), e.g. the Canaanites (Joshua, etc).

Sadly, tyrants and despots rise up, as we have seen in times past, as well as having a number of examples today. World War II demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work, and, if Putin takes Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic states are in peril. There are times when it is necessary to take a stand against oppression. If the USA hadn't come to our rescue in the Pacific, we Australians could well be speaking in Japanese now, and our indigenous brothers and sisters would be even worse off.

Some wars are righteous; some are not. I cannot judge, so I have to put it all in the hands of God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hello again TS…I admire your calm and reasonable approach to these things.

One thing I have learned is that people will continue to do things that I don't like - some big, some small. And, I have no control. Heck! I have enough trouble controlling myself sometimes!

And I guess we can all agree with that statement….being a child of Adam puts us all in that situation….needing God’s forgiveness on a daily basis, and being vigilant in a world of distraction from what is right from God’s standpoint.
I recall in my youth that I never heard the kind of language that is freely heard today. Even the movies were censored from explicit scenes and bad language…..but there is no censorship anymore, apart from the one we implement ourselves by avoiding violent or immoral entertainment. How many movies are produced these days that are not full of graphic sex and violence, as well as those with spiritistic overtones or satanic themes? Our choices become very narrow when we ask ourselves if Jesus would sit and watch that particular movie or play that video game with us?

Another thing I have learned is that I don't really know what is right - for me or for anyone else. Sometimes things that appear to be bad turn out for the good, and sometimes the reverse occurs. Think of Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery. That appeared to be terrible for Joseph, but it was all part of God's plan.

Well I guess there are things that happen to us as Solomon said…
Eccl 9:11…
”I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all.”

But those “unexpected events” do not include the results of deliberate sin, where God has already warned us of the consequences…..choices made in opposition to God’s counsel will always lead to trouble.

I love the story of Joseph because he bore all those terrible injustices without getting all bitter and twisted.
To see how God had already foresee that his servants would come to hard times, and how he prepared Joseph to save his family from certain death, before the nation of Israel was even formed, shows us that even what appears to be bad, can have a good outcome. In Joseph’s case, it was the integrity of the man himself and his close obedience to his God, that saw him through his many injustices.

Finally, when I become invested in any particular outcome, I lose my serenity. An expectation is a premeditated disappointment, and possibly a resentment. This separates me from God.

So, for me, being "no part of the world" means "letting go, and letting God". There may be people around who are sufficiently knowledgeable and competent to make the right decisions and take the necessary actions, but I'm not one of them.

I like the way you put that….presuming what God will or won’t do, in any given situation, is to set oneself up for disappointment. How many pray for a certain outcome in a bad situation, and it goes unanswered?
As you said, better to “let go and let God” do what is in accord with his will. Sometimes his answer is “no” and we have to accept that.

Wars are terrible, but sometimes necessary. Apparently, God accepts them, and there are numerous instances in the Bible where God commanded or executed the destruction of certain people(s), e.g. the Canaanites (Joshua, etc).

God fought in support of Israel in pre-Christian times because his nation possessed a land that other nations envied and wanted for themselves. The Canaanites were evicted from that land because of their disgusting practices, in a land promised to the descendants of Abraham centuries before. It was God’s to give to whomever he chose….and that land was reserved for those who would become his nation.

Israel only fought to protect the land that God gave them. If they tried to garner support from worldly nations, it was a slap in the face to the God who had shown them his power so many times, and had given them the victory even when they were completely outnumbered.

How many nations today occupy a land given to them by God, as opposed to those who stole the land from their original inhabitants with violence and bloodshed? Does God support the wars of the nations fighting over political ideologies and greed for land and lucrative resources?

Interestingly, Israel had been abandoned by God for some 300 odd years before Jesus was born. God had sent no prophets to Israel during that time because they were incorrigible.
Their land was conquered by foreign powers and they no longer had a military force. In Jesus‘ day, Rome was in control of their land….and their religion had become a weak and corrupted shadow of the one God gave his people at Mt Sinai.
They had adopted man-made doctrines (Matt 15:7-9) and Jesus did not have a good word to say about them….in fact he condemned the Jewish religious leaders to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33) That fate would have translated over to the Jewish people who were persuaded by that corrupt leadership to demand the unlawful execution of their Messiah. (Matt 27:25) They cursed themselves and their children…..which I believe is evident in their activities today. God is not with today’s Israel.

Sadly, tyrants and despots rise up, as we have seen in times past, as well as having a number of examples today. World War II demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work, and, if Putin takes Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic states are in peril. There are times when it is necessary to take a stand against oppression. If the USA hadn't come to our rescue in the Pacific, we Australians could well be speaking in Japanese now, and our indigenous brothers and sisters would be even worse off.

As we step back and look at the world through the eyes of the Creator, who had prophesy written in the Scriptures, long before the foretold events took place, we can see that we must let go of any involvement in the outworking of these prophesies because nothing we do will change what God has foretold. What we see happening today was all foretold in the prophesies of Daniel, written some 500 years before the birth of Christ.
What “the world” does in response to those events is what God has already addressed in his word. This is why we must have no part in it, or to be found with blood on our hands. (Isa 1:15)
God has his purpose and his people are found in all nations and are thus subjected to both sides of a conflict….in today’s wars, there are no “good guys”…only good pretenders. Propaganda works on both sides of these conflicts, and both are convinced that their side is the defender…..but what happens when you find “Christians” on both sides killing one another?
Does patriotism override Christianity? Should it ever? Isn’t that a good test of faith?

Some wars are righteous; some are not. I cannot judge, so I have to put it all in the hands of God.

In today’s world, there is only one “righteous” war and that is the one we see drawing closer every day….”the war of the great day of God the Almighty”…..where the true “good guys” will be found as “no part of the world” because of who is its god and ruler. (2 Cor 4:4; 1 John 5:19) That is what we have to judge….we cannot take sides….even in tacit approval.

We are to fight for the right “government” and that is God’s Kingdom….not using carnal weapons, but with spiritual armor and “the sword of the spirit”. (Eph 6:11-17) Any vengeance to be repaid, will come from God, not humans. (Rom 12:17-21)

 

[TiredSoul]

Hello again TS…I admire your calm and reasonable approach to these things.

And I guess we can all agree with that statement….being a child of Adam puts us all in that situation….needing God’s forgiveness on a daily basis, and being vigilant in a world of distraction from what is right from God’s standpoint.
I recall in my youth that I never heard the kind of language that is freely heard today. Even the movies were censored from explicit scenes and bad language…..but there is no censorship anymore, apart from the one we implement ourselves by avoiding violent or immoral entertainment. How many movies are produced these days that are not full of graphic sex and violence, as well as those with spiritistic overtones or satanic themes? Our choices become very narrow when we ask ourselves if Jesus would sit and watch that particular movie or play that video game with us?

Well I guess there are things that happen to us as Solomon said…
Eccl 9:11…
”I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all.”

But those “unexpected events” do not include the results of deliberate sin, where God has already warned us of the consequences…..choices made in opposition to God’s counsel will always lead to trouble.

I love the story of Joseph because he bore all those terrible injustices without getting all bitter and twisted.
To see how God had already foresee that his servants would come to hard times, and how he prepared Joseph to save his family from certain death, before the nation of Israel was even formed, shows us that even what appears to be bad, can have a good outcome. In Joseph’s case, it was the integrity of the man himself and his close obedience to his God, that saw him through his many injustices.

I like the way you put that….presuming what God will or won’t do, in any given situation, is to set oneself up for disappointment. How many pray for a certain outcome in a bad situation, and it goes unanswered?
As you said, better to “let go and let God” do what is in accord with his will. Sometimes his answer is “no” and we have to accept that.

God fought in support of Israel in pre-Christian times because his nation possessed a land that other nations envied and wanted for themselves. The Canaanites were evicted from that land because of their disgusting practices, in a land promised to the descendants of Abraham centuries before. It was God’s to give to whomever he chose….and that land was reserved for those who would become his nation.

Israel only fought to protect the land that God gave them. If they tried to garner support from worldly nations, it was a slap in the face to the God who had shown them his power so many times, and had given them the victory even when they were completely outnumbered.

How many nations today occupy a land given to them by God, as opposed to those who stole the land from their original inhabitants with violence and bloodshed? Does God support the wars of the nations fighting over political ideologies and greed for land and lucrative resources?

Interestingly, Israel had been abandoned by God for some 300 odd years before Jesus was born. God had sent no prophets to Israel during that time because they were incorrigible.
Their land was conquered by foreign powers and they no longer had a military force. In Jesus‘ day, Rome was in control of their land….and their religion had become a weak and corrupted shadow of the one God gave his people at Mt Sinai.
They had adopted man-made doctrines (Matt 15:7-9) and Jesus did not have a good word to say about them….in fact he condemned the Jewish religious leaders to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33) That fate would have translated over to the Jewish people who were persuaded by that corrupt leadership to demand the unlawful execution of their Messiah. (Matt 27:25) They cursed themselves and their children…..which I believe is evident in their activities today. God is not with today’s Israel.

As we step back and look at the world through the eyes of the Creator, who had prophesy written in the Scriptures, long before the foretold events took place, we can see that we must let go of any involvement in the outworking of these prophesies because nothing we do will change what God has foretold. What we see happening today was all foretold in the prophesies of Daniel, written some 500 years before the birth of Christ.
What “the world” does in response to those events is what God has already addressed in his word. This is why we must have no part in it, or to be found with blood on our hands. (Isa 1:15)
God has his purpose and his people are found in all nations and are thus subjected to both sides of a conflict….in today’s wars, there are no “good guys”…only good pretenders. Propaganda works on both sides of these conflicts, and both are convinced that their side is the defender…..but what happens when you find “Christians” on both sides killing one another?
Does patriotism override Christianity? Should it ever? Isn’t that a good test of faith?

In today’s world, there is only one “righteous” war and that is the one we see drawing closer every day….”the war of the great day of God the Almighty”…..where the true “good guys” will be found as “no part of the world” because of who is its god and ruler. (2 Cor 4:4; 1 John 5:19) That is what we have to judge….we cannot take sides….even in tacit approval.

We are to fight for the right “government” and that is God’s Kingdom….not using carnal weapons, but with spiritual armor and “the sword of the spirit”. (Eph 6:11-17) Any vengeance to be repaid, will come from God, not humans. (Rom 12:17-21)

Thank you Aunty Jane. I think we are pretty much on the same page. For me, faith is trusting that everything will work out in God's way, in God's time. I don't concern myself too much with the details; I just focus on God's will for me today, and I ask for his help to carry that out.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

It seems I am confined, through no choice of my own, to live for eternity, either in heaven or hell. Is it bad that I don’t find that appealing? Certainly no one finds the prospect of hell appealing. The heaven part sounds really nice, but for eternity? If I don’t have a choice, what about my free will? I prefer to die and that be the end of it.

its been said you can lead a horse to water but its a bugger to try drowned it. do you likely feel the future will be the same as it in now ??

 

[quietthinker]

I really don’t think you have any idea how you come across to other people, QT. You yourself are quite judgmental in the things you say to me. But I don’t always know why.
I am not your judge any more than you are mine, but your short responses to me always have a sting attached for some reason.

The “rules”, if that is what you want to call them, are outlined in the Bible, whether you accept them or not is up to you.

AJ, you can rest assured, any judgement or sting you feel is not intended. I would suggest it is the result of an unwillingness and an insistence to not consider your views might need revising.

If this is the case, there is nothing anyone can do, not even God, to alter those feelings.

My short posts have the intention of being succinct. Not going around the block to get across the street. You are however welcome to enquire if what you think I'm saying appears as a 'riddle' to you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

My short posts have the intention of being succinct. Not going around the block to get across the street. You are however welcome to enquire if what you think I'm saying appears as a 'riddle' to you.

For some reason, your “succinct” posts always contain a degree of sarcasm. Are you just a naturally sarcastic person QT? Post #142 above is just a small example. Is it supposed to be funny? Is this your way of addressing people you disagree with, generally? You seem intent on putting down those who disagree with your take on things.....why? Can you not address the post rather than the poster?

My posts are often long because I am a teacher and the details to me are important....but I am not standing there with a big stick forcing people to read what I post. It is not my intention to offend those who have a short attention span, to force them to read past a paragraph or two. Sometimes the buried treasure requires some digging. I love to dig.....and perhaps the destination we want to get to has roadblocks that require a different and longer way to arrive at our desired destination.

For the most part, I cannot understand your vague inferences, which are always submerged in the sarcastic way that you often respond, especially to me. We are at opposite ends of some spectrum and will probably never agree on much of anything, so why do you even bother reading my posts if all you do is offer empty criticism and bad jokes?

Perhaps you should put me on “ignore”?

 

[quietthinker]

For some reason, your “succinct” posts always contain a degree of sarcasm. Are you just a naturally sarcastic person QT? Post #142 above is just a small example. Is it supposed to be funny? Is this your way of addressing people you disagree with, generally? You seem intent on putting down those who disagree with your take on things.....why? Can you not address the post rather than the poster?

My posts are often long because I am a teacher and the details to me are important....but I am not standing there with a big stick forcing people to read what I post. It is not my intention to offend those who have a short attention span, to force them to read past a paragraph or two. Sometimes the buried treasure requires some digging. I love to dig.....and perhaps the destination we want to get to has roadblocks that require a different and longer way to arrive at our desired destination.

For the most part, I cannot understand your vague inferences, which are always submerged in the sarcastic way that you often respond, especially to me. We are at opposite ends of some spectrum and will probably never agree on much of anything, so why do you even bother reading my posts if all you do is offer empty criticism and bad jokes?

Perhaps you should put me on “ignore”?

I understand that what you say you consider important.

The proof text method of trying to verify ones ideas always blows out into reams of commentary. It is as if the more words made the weightier the argument. The principle pervades every area of learning. Do you think there could be another method?

Now you might consider that as offensive when it is not intended to be. Its intent is to get to the core....and if there is interest in the core, there will inevitably be less 'noise'.
I gleaned these ideas from the NT. John 21:25, Matthew 6:7

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It seems I am confined, through no choice of my own, to live for eternity, either in heaven or hell. Is it bad that I don’t find that appealing? Certainly no one finds the prospect of hell appealing. The heaven part sounds really nice, but for eternity? If I don’t have a choice, what about my free will? I prefer to die and that be the end of it.

Only someone who does not know the Lord would be talking like this.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I understand that what you say you consider important.

The proof text method of trying to verify ones ideas always blows out into reams of commentary. It is as if the more words made the weightier the argument. The principle pervades every area of learning. Do you think there could be another method?

Now you might consider that as offensive when it is not intended to be. Its intent is to get to the core....and if there is interest in the core, there will inevitably be less 'noise'.
I gleaned these ideas from the NT. John 21:25, Matthew 6:7

You definitely have a way with words….
I didn’t glean the same ideas from those verses at all….

Let’s look at those two Scriptures….
John 21:25…
”Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” (ESV)

Is this about brevity or practicality….? How big would the Bible be if all that Jesus did was recorded? The whole Bible is one book, but look what detail it contains……Including the detail in a post, explains things that brevity skips over. If people are interested in the details, they will read…if not, that is up to them, not you.

Matthew 6:7…and let’s also include verse 8…
“And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.” (ESV)

What is the takeaway here? If you are going to pray to God, don’t say the same things over and over again because he already knows what you need, so he doesn’t need to hear the same words every time you pray.
What you pray should come from the heart, and it doesn’t matter to God how long you talk to him….he will never get tired of your sincere expressions….what he hates is mindless repetition.

When you post scripture, you demonstrate little understanding of the verses you quote.
This is why study can’t be brief or a cursory reading…it has to be deep and in context. It takes time and a sincere desire for accuracy. If that offends you….well, I offered you the solution.

 

[PS95]

Thank you PS95. I agree that it is a process, and I believe that I still have a long way to go.

I don't doubt that for a second. As with all traumas it changes a person forever. This one in particular is unspeakable. The self blame/shame is for the pit. You are a light though to lead the way of internal healing for others. I believe it will come and roll around in your mind and you also know where to take that. I'm going to hold you in my prayers.
It would be better to have a millstone around the neck and tossed into the sea comes to my mind.
I do hope there was some justice in order to protect others.
If not, we can hope there was repentance, although it isn't likely according to many in the know. With God all things are possible.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I didn’t glean the same ideas from those verses at all….

We don't need to know what the watchtower folks claim or what any other cult says

 

[Aunty Jane]

We don't need to know what the watchtower folks claim or what any other cult says

Understanding what the Bible says, requires study, but perhaps with both fingers in your ears, you can’t hear what you don’t want to……the Jews did the same thing to Jesus….they didn’t listen because their religious leaders virtually said he was a cult leader…I don’t think you know what a cult is.

We just don’t agree with Christendom’s version of “Christianity”….because it’s a hopelessly divided counterfeit.
“Watchtower folks” just study the Bible….you should try it sometime…..

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

“Watchtower folks” just study the Bible….

Uh no, they believe what they are told to believe by the home office resulting in scripture twisting with the help of watchtower demons

 

[Kokyu]

It seems I am confined, through no choice of my own, to live for eternity, either in heaven or hell.

Why should you have a choice as to where you end up after death that includes more than the binary choice God has instituted? Did God ask your opinion on the color of the sky, or what shape your body should have, or what culture you should be born into?

Is it bad that I don’t find that appealing?

You don't find heaven appealing? If so, yes, this is very bad.

The heaven part sounds really nice, but for eternity?

Heaven is all about God. He is infinite. You will never get to the end of God, you'll never know all there is to know about Him. He won't, then, become boring, or run-of-the-mill. God is also utterly satisfying, being the Ultimate Point of our existence. When we experience Him, we are fulfilled in the way we were created to do, which never grows dull or tedious.

If I don’t have a choice, what about my free will?

What of your free will? You have some degree of free agency, but only some. Much of your life is what it is without your agreement, or input of any kind. Heaven and hell are among those things about which you have no say, like the nature of water, or the color of your eyes, or the family into which you've been born, or the law of gravity, etc.

I prefer to die and that be the end of it.

Well, in this matter, God doesn't really care what you prefer. You will answer to Him for the character of your living, for the way in which you exercised the measure of free agency He's given to you. It doesn't do any good, then, for you to wish things were otherwise. You're in God's universe, not your own, and what He says, goes. If you don't submit yourself to this reality, you're going to have a very, very unpleasant eternity. But if you will submit to God's will and way, all the wonder and excellence of who He is can be yours.