On the day you eat dying you will die.
God said that part, not you. I'm looking at consistency.
Much love!
What is being pointed to in the following scfriptures?
- Thread starter Jay Ross
- Start date
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God said that part, not you. I'm looking at consistency.
Much love!
To be honest, after I read your post, I just lost interest in writing the longer version, and just included a mention to let you know. But I just lost the enthusiasm. That's my fault.
Much love!
Keep searching for God's truth without your blinkers on. Satan wants us to believe that God did not say from the beginning of time that the second death was on the table for us if we sin against him.
I don't have an issue with this. God told Adam he would die, and he died. He was separated from God. That's what the Bible describes.
Much love!
Marks, you are still holding onto what you have been previously taught and not approaching the bible with an open mind. If you keep doing this you may never learn what God is teaching us about the second death.
Reading the scriptures literally is not helping you to see the actual context of the scriptures. You have to let the metaphorical language emerge for the Hebrew Texts.
Shalom
This doesn't sound like something you can know, my mindset as I read the Bible.
What is problematic to you about Adam dying on that day, that death being His separation from God? Is that not completely Biblical?
Much love!
Basically you are saying here that I can't see your interpretation because I won't accept that a particular word is a metaphor for something else.
What exactly suggests to you that dying the death is a metaphor for second death at the end of the age, keeping in mind that it says it would happen on the same day?
I'm in fact seeing this metaphorically also, death referring to the spirit's separation from God.
Much love!
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Marks the day you commit a crime is the day that you will become a candidate for the gallows/prison, unless a pardon can be obtained.
No, not really as God still sort out Adam and Eve in the Garden as He is doing even today.
You have told many people on this forum that you mainly read the bible from a literal perspective. So I guess, it is possible for people to know your mindset when you read the scriptures.
'Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory;
but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things,
but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you,
which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God,
thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made Himself of no reputation,
and took upon him the form of a servant,
and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man,
He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death,
even the death of the cross.'
(Php 2:6-8)
but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things,
but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you,
which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God,
thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made Himself of no reputation,
and took upon him the form of a servant,
and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man,
He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death,
even the death of the cross.'
(Php 2:6-8)
Yes, under our judical system, things work certain ways.
In that instance, God said, the day you eat of it you dying you will die. Not, you will become a candidate for death. Why shouldn't we understand this the way it was said?
Much love!
That's obfuscation.
What you said was,
Marks, you are still holding onto what you have been previously taught and not approaching the bible with an open mind.
And you do not know:
1. What views I've been taught.
2. How closely my current views match those I've been taught.
3. How much I compare my reading to the views I've been.
4. How I handle those comparisons.
Much love!
Mark why do you not quote me accurately, but rather twist what I have said to suit what you are arguing.
What I had actually said was: -
In life we can chose to either worship God or reject God. The outcome for rejecting God by not following His statutes is the second death when at the finial judgement we are judged to be not righteous.
This is something that Jesus said as recorded in Matthew in this first instance: -
Matthew 5:21-26: - Murder Begins in the Heart
(Luke 12:57-59)
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother,'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
(Luke 12:57-59)
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother,'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
NKJV
And in the second instance said this: -
Matthew 10:27-33: - Jesus Teaches the Fear of God
(Luke 12:3-7)
27 "Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Confess Christ Before Men
(Luke 12:8,9)
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
(Luke 12:3-7)
27 "Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Confess Christ Before Men
(Luke 12:8,9)
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV
Now in the first passage where the word "danger" is found, it can also be understood to have the meaning of "liable" which also suggests that the person can also be a "candidate" for the "second death."
Oh well, you are entitled to your opinion, and if you cannot see what is plainly stated, because you want it to say something else, then let it be on your own head.
Shalom
Actually I was just abreviating figuring that our convo has a context, and you'd know what I was saying.
It appears to suit you to cast me in a different light.
OK.
Much love!
But you have also written this.
Oh well, I have to read between the lines now as well. How silly of me not to do so. Hope I will not be told off for doing so in the future.
'And fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear Him
which is able to destroy
both soul and body in hell.'
(Mat 10:28)
Hello @Jay Ross
Our Lord does differentiate, in this verse, between the death of the body, which has the prospect of resurrection either to life, or to judgement: and the second death, which takes place following judgement: in which there is no hope of the body becoming a living soul once more, for it is cast into the end-time fire of Gehenna (Hell =G1067) for destruction.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear Him
which is able to destroy
both soul and body in hell.'
(Mat 10:28)
Hello @Jay Ross
Our Lord does differentiate, in this verse, between the death of the body, which has the prospect of resurrection either to life, or to judgement: and the second death, which takes place following judgement: in which there is no hope of the body becoming a living soul once more, for it is cast into the end-time fire of Gehenna (Hell =G1067) for destruction.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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'The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him,
and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,
which taketh away the sin of the world.'
(Joh 1:29)
Hello @Jay Ross,
Adam chose to disobey God's known will for Him, yes: but God had provided a means of forgiveness through the shedding of blood, by the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Adam will stand before God, yes, but it is not for you or I to say that God will judge him worthy of the second death. For God will judge righteously, according to the secrets of men's hearts.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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