What is first? The war in heaven or the marriage supper of the lamb.

[Jay Ross]

Well let me explain myself, I described your post as backwards not in reference to chronological order of events but the events themselves seemed backwards. But of course you will ask me to explain every detail which I would consider a waste of time arguing nonsense, I have better things to do with my time.
Sorry I offended you.

Well, I am sorry for you that you are prepared to make bold and false statements that I have presented End time events in what seems to you in a backwards manner, but you do not want to, or have the time to, justify your "opinion" with "proof" that justifies your claim that I have seemed to present the events of the Biblical End Times backwards.

With that response I therefore I can dismiss your nonsense as just that. Nonsense.

From my perspective, you have identified yourself as a "good and faithful servant" of your master who wants people to believe that the End Times is nothing but "biblical" nonsense, based on your response above. But then again you have many "friends" who think and believe as you do and who regularly present nonsense about the End Time Prophecies.

Have a good day then.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh well, back up your claim with scripture. The question I have for you is if the Man who goes away is Christ, why does he need for those who do not want him to be king over them, have them brought before him to be killed?

That just does not sound like the Jesus I know.

Well it is JESUS . Though most folks today would not truly recognize the biblical JESUS at all anymore .
Most folks dont realize who it is that is actually gonna tread the wrath of GOD .
My advice , let us learn the biblical Christ well and the sound doctrine of those biblical apostels .
Get Dug IN those bibles . Let us learn Christ for ourselves . far too many decievers abound . And they are deceiving
and being deceived . Now , marvel not about this , Even satan can appear as an angel of Light
so its no great thing that his ministirs have long taken over most all churches . Its gotten real bad my friend .
Let us learn our bibles and stay in prayer .

 

[Truth7t7]

Unfortunately, the Book of Revelation does not present the End Time prophecies in a literal, logical chronological order. John moves forwards and backwards in time and subsequently records what he saw in that order. We have to be able to discern the direction in time that John was travelling from what he has recorded in this book. That is not that difficult to do.

Good luck with that.

I Agree, the book of Revelation has many parallel teachings, and the events aren't in chronological order

Example: The Final Judgement Is Seen In Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15, same event in parallel teachings

 

[Jay Ross]

Well it is JESUS . Though most folks today would not truly recognize the biblical JESUS at all anymore .
Most folks dont realize who it is that is actually gonna tread the wrath of GOD .
My advice , let us learn the biblical Christ well and the sound doctrine of those biblical apostels .
Get Dug IN those bibles . Let us learn Christ for ourselves . far too many decievers abound . And they are deceiving
and being deceived . Now , marvel not about this , Even satan can appear as an angel of Light
so its no great thing that his ministirs have long taken over most all churches . Its gotten real bad my friend .
Let us learn our bibles and stay in prayer .

Oh well so be it, we will have to hold to differing opinions. One of us is probably right, and the other is probably in error.

 

[Davy]

Thank you Davy,

I'll read up on chap 19

Your welcome. It's important to 'rightly divide' God's Word like Apostle Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15. That means to be aware of the timeline order of events.

This is why it's so important to study all of God's Word, and why Apostle Peter told us to be mindful of what God wrote through His Old Testament prophets. Only by recognizing the order of events in Rev.19 would we know the first 1-9 verses are for after... Christ's coming to defeat His enemies on earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

man, and you guys are just determined on that zionist outcome thing, huh
if it isnt literal, it is pointless, right

 

[Davy]

What comes to mind is that we will already be IN eternity during the marriage supper. "Time" does not exist in eternity. Therefore, cannot all things happen simultaneously?
His Omnipresence is everywhere at all times as He lives outside of time...eternity and when we are with Him we too will be outside of time. JMHO

No, they do not happen simultaneously. They happen according to the order God gave in His Word, even in the prophets.

Revelation 20 is emphatic that there will be a temporary "thousand years" reign over the unsaved nations after Jesus' future return. How will that thousand years be marked if time is no more then? So just by the Scripture mention of that 1,000 years period, it shows the 'time no longer' event will actually be after... that 1,000 year period of Christ's reign over the unsaved nations.

 

[Davy]

man, and you guys are just determined on that zionist outcome thing, huh
if it isnt literal, it is pointless, right

Rev 14:1-4
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
KJV

Sion (or Zion), per The New Testament, is about Christ's future Kingdom that will be on this earth when He returns. That just so happens to be where He is returning to, in the holy land, with His faithful Church. And He with His faithful Church will reign over the nations from there, on earth, like Revelation 5:10 reveals.

Is there any other... doctrine trying to claim Zion is for someone else other than Christ's Church in the future? Yes, the unbelieving Jews claim Zion is only for the Jews and not involving Christ's Church, which is what today's Zionist doctrine is about.

Even those on a false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory from John Darby support the Jew's Zionist theories from Darby's and E.W. Bullinger's bad Dispensationalist ideas.

 

[bbyrd009]

Rev 14:1-4
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
KJV

Sion (or Zion), per The New Testament, is about Christ's future Kingdom that will be on this earth when He returns. That just so happens to be where He is returning to, in the holy land, with His faithful Church. And He with His faithful Church will reign over the nations from there, on earth, like Revelation 5:10 reveals.

Is there any other... doctrine trying to claim Zion is for someone else other than Christ's Church in the future? Yes, the unbelieving Jews claim Zion is only for the Jews and not involving Christ's Church, which is what today's Zionist doctrine is about.

Even those on a false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory from John Darby support the Jew's Zionist theories from Darby's and E.W. Bullinger's bad Dispensationalist ideas.

now if only you could Quote “Jesus, returning” eh?

Sion (or Zion), per The New Testament, is about Christ's future Kingdom that will be on this earth when He returns

sing it with me one mo time,
toooooooooo-morrow, tomorrow…
great gig for tithes tho, huh?

as long as it is called “today…”

 

[Oseas]

What is first? The war in heaven or the marriage supper of the lamb.

THE WAR.

 

[Jay Ross]

What is first? The war in heaven or the marriage supper of the lamb.

THE WAR.

And Daniel told us that Jerusalem would be devastated and desolated up and until the war in heaven is over. Now since the war in heaven is not over yet, the marriage supper cannot begin. Now since the heavenly hosts are judged in heaven and the kings of the earth are judged on the earth, and that they are collectively imprisoned in the pit for many days to await the time of their punishment after they are released for a little while period. (This verse gives us a clue as to how the locusts came to be in the Bottomless pit.) Paul rightly states that until the fulness with respect to the time period of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts has been completed, that is after it has been completed, that all of Israel will be save. It is after all of Israel is saved/redeemed and cleansed and the Kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and God's possession among the nations which Israel had rejected at Mt Sinai, is renewed, the marriage supper cannot happen.

Oh well let the bombastic experts prevail until God allows it to play out as He has prophesied such that the egg sticks to their stern faces and they look so foolish that they will cringe in the despair of their embarrassment because the doors of the banqueting hall will be closed as they will not be ready to see what is to happen on that day.

Perhaps I should have just given the same answer.

Shalom

 

[Marvelloustime]

Well it is JESUS . Though most folks today would not truly recognize the biblical JESUS at all anymore .
Most folks dont realize who it is that is actually gonna tread the wrath of GOD .
My advice , let us learn the biblical Christ well and the sound doctrine of those biblical apostels .
Get Dug IN those bibles . Let us learn Christ for ourselves . far too many decievers abound . And they are deceiving
and being deceived . Now , marvel not about this , Even satan can appear as an angel of Light
so its no great thing that his ministirs have long taken over most all churches . Its gotten real bad my friend .
Let us learn our bibles and stay in prayer .

Brother is correct. The deception grows only worse. In these last days we need to focus on reading tenaciously our KJV Bibles and keep our minds fixed and focused on the biblical Lord Jesus. Praise the Lord.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I was reading from Rev 12 about Satan being thrown down from heaven and it got me wondering, from a pre-trib perspective, which would happen first or would both events happen simoltansly?
So how would the marriage supper and the war in heaven happen in spite of eachother and which would happen first?
Please no arguments on the timing of the rapture.


Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Revelation 12:7‭-‬9 NIV
Revelation 12:7-9 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

Precious friend, how about this? After {MYSTERY} Great GRACE Departure:

(1) Judgment, and then, the assembly of The Body Of CHRIST "Is Presented
By The Head, holy and unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight,
To His Father," In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2), and THEN:

(2) the marriage supper, And THEN:

(3) At the Second Prophesied Coming of CHRIST, LORD, And KING:

a) TWO "armieS" follow Him from Heaven, AND On the way:

b) ONE of the armies {Michael/ALL angels} "fights and defeats
Satan/cohorts" relieving them of their positions, And THEN:

c) The other army {The Body Of CHRIST} Get Assigned” By CHRIST,

their Heavenly HOPE "ruling and reigning" IN THESE Vacated positions?
(Colossians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 6:3, 15:38-49; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2)

d) Explaining The Truth Of WHY Only ONE army "arrives on earth" With Him:

Rev_19:19 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth,
and their armies, gathered together to make war against HIM
That sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY!"

"When The Son of Man Shall Come In HIS Glory, and ALL
THE HOLY ANGELS With HIM, Then Shall HE Sit Upon The
Throne Of HIS GLORY!" (Matthew_25:31)​

Amen?
----------------

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today,?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!​

 

[Jay Ross]

Brother is correct. The deception grows only worse. In these last days we need to focus on reading tenaciously our KJV Bibles and keep our minds fixed and focused on the biblical Lord Jesus. Praise the Lord.

Not sure what you are stating here with your statement, "Brother is correct."

Shalom

 

[teamventure]

Precious friend, how about this? After {MYSTERY} Great GRACE Departure:

(1) Judgment, and then, the assembly of The Body Of CHRIST "Is Presented
By The Head, holy and unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight,
To His Father," In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2), and THEN:

(2) the marriage supper, And THEN:

(3) At the Second Prophesied Coming of CHRIST, LORD, And KING:

a) TWO "armieS" follow Him from Heaven, AND On the way:

b) ONE of the armies {Michael/ALL angels} "fights and defeats
Satan/cohorts" relieving them of their positions, And THEN:

c) The other army {The Body Of CHRIST} Get Assigned” By CHRIST,

their Heavenly HOPE "ruling and reigning" IN THESE Vacated positions?
(Colossians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 6:3, 15:38-49; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2)

d) Explaining The Truth Of WHY Only ONE army "arrives on earth" With Him:

Rev_19:19 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth,
and their armies, gathered together to make war against HIM
That sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY!"

"When The Son of Man Shall Come In HIS Glory, and ALL
THE HOLY ANGELS With HIM, Then Shall HE Sit Upon The
Throne Of HIS GLORY!" (Matthew_25:31)​

Amen?
----------------

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today,?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!​

Great how that's all laid out. Thank you for your contribution.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

[

No need to read the Greek, I use the KJV, and the 60 scholars that performed the work were outstanding Christian scholars

The scholars that translated the KJVs were biased in their theology. It obviously shows in the way they translated the original text. Acts 12:4 and 1 Jhn. 5:7-8 are only 2 examples of their theological biases being inserted into the translations, and that's without mentioning the plethora of other translation and grammatical errors. The inspired Hebrew and Greek texts > translated bibles. When the dead are resurrected to face judgement, the texts they will be judged by will not be from a KJ bible.

 

[Truth7t7]

[
The scholars that translated the KJVs were biased in their theology. It obviously shows in the way they translated the original text. Acts 12:4 and 1 Jhn. 5:7-8 are only 2 examples of their theological biases being inserted into the translations, and that's without mentioning the plethora of other translation and grammatical errors. The inspired Hebrew and Greek texts > translated bibles. When the dead are resurrected to face judgement, the texts they will be judged by will not be from a KJ bible.

I disagree

 

[GRACE ambassador]

When the dead are resurrected to face judgement, the texts they will be judged by will not be from a KJ bible.

VERY HIGHLY DOUBTFUL That God uses TRICKERY/DECEIT upon millions of KJB believers In God's Gospel Of PURE GRACE! (Rom 2:16)

 

[Truth7t7]

Precious friend, how about this? After {MYSTERY} Great GRACE Departure:

(1) Judgment, and then, the assembly of The Body Of CHRIST "Is Presented
By The Head, holy and unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight,
To His Father," In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2), and THEN:

(2) the marriage supper, And THEN:

(3) At the Second Prophesied Coming of CHRIST, LORD, And KING:

a) TWO "armieS" follow Him from Heaven, AND On the way:

b) ONE of the armies {Michael/ALL angels} "fights and defeats
Satan/cohorts" relieving them of their positions, And THEN:

c) The other army {The Body Of CHRIST} Get Assigned” By CHRIST,

their Heavenly HOPE "ruling and reigning" IN THESE Vacated positions?
(Colossians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 6:3, 15:38-49; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2)

d) Explaining The Truth Of WHY Only ONE army "arrives on earth" With Him:

Rev_19:19 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth,
and their armies, gathered together to make war against HIM
That sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY!"

"When The Son of Man Shall Come In HIS Glory, and ALL
THE HOLY ANGELS With HIM, Then Shall HE Sit Upon The
Throne Of HIS GLORY!" (Matthew_25:31)​

Amen?
----------------

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today,?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!​

How about no armies needed, Jesus Christ alone consumes this earth by fire "Dissolved" at his return (The End)

 

[Jay Ross]

Sounds like we have descended into the usual KJV's fallibility/infallibility argument here without validating that the "English" translations that we revere are contextually accurate with respect to their source documents.

The KJV only justification is not valid.

Why try and blame blame God for this trickery? Would not this trickery be the work of Satan?

Shalom