What Is God's Definition Of Sin?

[fivesense]

Are you sure you want to play a game of semantics?

RND, if to you it appears that this forum is a place to "split hairs" and be semantical for me, you are mistaken. I take most seriously both God's word, and the testimony of the saints. What God is making known through the Body can be valuable to the seeker of truth, or fodder for the "loose cannons" that roam about like clouds without rain, never learning and unable to come to a knowledge of the truth. I thank God I am able to relish His precision and choice of words, they are refined seven times and are as pure as gold. I await their issuance from all who are my brothers and sisters in spirit. I do not hold the Writings in contempt as you would seem to imply, and neither do I regard my brothers and sisters as persons to be "handled" by me for my own gainsaying. What I know to be truth is labored for, nurtured and tested against the word of God. When I see it in others, I rejoice. I look forward to more of what the Lord is doing in your life.
fivesense

 

[Hobie]

Ummm, God has always held mankind responsible for their sin because sin leads to death. It is obvious throughout Genesis that all ten of God's commandments were broken and those that broken His law were held accountable.

Sin has always been the transgression against God's will.

Sure he was and he passed these on to his children.

Then you must be suggesting that God could have easily informed Adam of His commandments verbally.

It is clear that Adam sinned and transgressed God's law.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


I would disagree. Christ died while we were still sinners.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Adam clearly sinned or we would not be in this mess...

 

[Nancy]

What is God's definition of sin?



If we look in scripture, God says that sin is breaking His law.

"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.



So what does this mean, what does scripture identify as His law? Is sin breaking God's Ten Commandment law, and since the law of God is perfect (Psalms 19:7), does it need changing? Or do the Commandments cover "the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13.



If they cover the whole duty of man, what do they tell us to do. If we look at them carefully we see the Commandments in the first four show love for God, the next six show love for our fellowman. So lets see how Christ explains it:



The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it:'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."



Thus was Christ covering all 10 when asked about them...

IMHO, in a nutshell, all sin is disobedience. When we know to do right yet, ignore it...it is sin. Jesus said that all the Law and Prophets hang on the two He gave us...my take is that if we are fulfilling those two, then the rest fall in line and we will not break them?

 

[101G]

I have been looking over a few post, which all seem to be good answers, I commend all. but may I add my two cent in, or may I say one cent. I have one scripture that sums it up for me. mind you all the answer so far are excellent, consider this verse. Romans 14:23 (KJV).

PICJAG.

 

[Nancy]

I have been looking over a few post, which all seem to be good answers, I commend all. but may I add my two cent in, or may I say one cent. I have one scripture that sums it up for me. mind you all the answer so far are excellent, consider this verse. Romans 14:23 (KJV).

PICJAG.

Yes! I see this as our consciences either condemning or commending us. Placing stumbling blocks before our bros's and sis's by abusing our freedom.

 

[[email protected]]

Which one of the "Ten" did Adam break? If I inherited sin and death because of his transgression, which one was it? I don't think they were given til Sinai and Moses. I could be wrong, there may have been a set laying around somewhere, but then, Adam was the first one to write. Hmm...

YLT Ja 4:17 to him, then, knowing to do good, and not doing, sin it is to him.

YLT 1Jn 5:17 all unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death.



I guess sin is a few things. The root of it is missing the mark, hamartia, not being in His image, spiritual sons and daughters, like His Christ, but persisting and existing, and deceasing in flesh, instead of being heavenly beings. We'll get there, eventually. Til then, all (including us) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
fivesense

First of all it was EVE who was the first SINNER, not Adam.

Later that day Eve seduced her husband Adam into joining her in SIN. (Genesis 3:6) (*)

When one disobeys God's command the act is identified as a SIN. SIN is punishable by death. The command Eve and Adam broke in Genesis 3 was the command to NOT eat of the forbidden fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The name of the fruit, btw, is OPINION.

God isn't interested in our OPINION. It's our DUTY to obey God's command.

When the Hebrews were liberated from bondage in Egypt they were led to the Holy Mountain where Moses received the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 & Deuteronomy 5:6-21). These primary commandments are typically referred to as the Royal Law because they apply to all people in all nations at all times.

In addition, Moses was given other laws pertaining to diet, ceremonial observances, health, construction of the Wilderness Tabernacle worship center, etc. - a total of 613. These laws apply to the Hebrew people and establish their separate/holy status before God. (Holy means to be separated unto God. For instance, refraining from playing football on sabbath is an act that separates one's time unto God, making it holy. BTW, the sabbath is defined as Saturday, not Sunday. God owns Saturday, the NFL owns Sunday.)

Bible question:
What is the significance of Moses' second trip up the mountain and the second pair of tablets of the LAW he received there?

The question above asked, "If I inherited sin and death because of his transgression, which one was it?"
The appropriate answer is twofold.

The primary answer can be discovered in Genesis 3. When Eve yielded to the first SIN, later seducing her husband into doing the same, they were judged unto death. "The soul that SINS shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4) "The wages of SIN is death" (Romans 6:23)

The secondary answer is that one doesn't inherit death. An inheritance is a gift. Death is a lack. One isn't 'given' death as much as one is stripped of life. The term 'inheritance' in the Bible generally refers to a great gift - the PROVISIONAL gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus. The inheritance is PROVISIONAL because there are stipulations for its being granted by God.

Most people do not inherit eternal life. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Therefore it is time for us to REPENT that we may be forgiven our SINs and wickedness and inherit the blessings of the Image of God - eternal life.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
(*) Judgment of Eve & Adam was appropriate to their wickedness.
Because Eve brought SIN into the world she was sentenced to pain when she brought children/life into the world. Because Adam worked at SIN he was sentenced to back breaking toil for the rest of his life. Because Eve and her female offspring have a tendency to change their minds, Adam's gender was granted the stability of authority over them.

Both Eve & Adam lost "the eternal Image of God" and died spiritually as well as physically.
The Image of God was initially part of the creation of mankind (Genesis 1:27) but was lost two chapters later. The phrase 'Image of God' isn't seen in scripture again until the New Testament when it is identified in the person of Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:15, 1 Corinthians 11:7, etc.). The Image of God is understood to be the eternal component of mankind, but was lost in Genesis 3. God has chosen to restore the Image of God/eternal life ONLY to those who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Everyone else dies like any dog or cockroach. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

 

[Robert Gwin]

What is God's definition of sin?



If we look in scripture, God says that sin is breaking His law.

"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.



So what does this mean, what does scripture identify as His law? Is sin breaking God's Ten Commandment law, and since the law of God is perfect (Psalms 19:7), does it need changing? Or do the Commandments cover "the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13.



If they cover the whole duty of man, what do they tell us to do. If we look at them carefully we see the Commandments in the first four show love for God, the next six show love for our fellowman. So lets see how Christ explains it:



The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it:'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."



Thus was Christ covering all 10 when asked about them...

"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

Hi Hobie, exactly sir! Literally sin is defined as missing the mark. What mark? God's laws of course. Thanks for bringing out that verse sir, I am putting it in my notes.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi Hobie, exactly sir! Literally sin is defined as missing the mark. What mark? God's laws of course. Thanks for bringing out that verse sir, I am putting it in my notes.

NOT precisely correct, sir.

The LAW of Moses, also referred to as the Royal Law because it applies to all people of all nations of all times, defines SIN. You may find the list in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. Violation of any of one these is punishable by DEATH.

SIN is far more serious than simply 'missing the mark'.

If a boy is learning how to ride a bicycle and falls off trying he has made a mistake. If a young girl takes up archery and misses the bull's eye of her target she's made a mistake. Neither child is guilty of a SIN. They've made a mistake, which is generally a good thing. We learn from our mistakes. WE DIE FROM SIN.

In post #67 the subject was muddied by a reference to "the greatest commandment" and Jesus' response to a question posed to Him.

Upon reading the context of the entire passage from Mark 12:28-34 we notice two important points.

The first point is that Our Lord's response consisted of two prayers which begin each shabbat (sabbath) Jewish worship service. These prayers are called the Shema and the V'ahhavta. Every Jew in earshot knew what Jesus was talking about as well as the context in which they are used. They are used during worship services required by the 4th commandment, which non-Jews violate every Sunday. (*)

In the English translation of Mark 12 we read that a debate was going on between Jesus and the Sadducees regarding the resurrection. This was a point of contention on the part of the Sadducees some of whom questioned metaphysical manifestations including the existence of Adonai/God (they still do).

The second point is that in Mark 12:32-33 a scribe, who had overheard the debate, asked Jesus which point of Mosaic LAW was most important. The scribe obviously wanted to know which commandment would result in personal resurrection because that's what the debate was about. When Jesus' answered with the familiar prayers the scribe agreed with Him. At that point in the conversation, Jesus said the scribe wasn't far from the Kingdom of God.

It's important to understand here that the scribe was close, but not on top of the subject. Indeed the Shema and V'ahhavta ARE the most important points in the LAW, but it must be clearly understood here THE LAW DOES NOT SAVE. This is why Jesus said the scribe was close. As someone once said being close is important only in the game of horseshoes or when dropping an atomic bomb.

Only repentance and faith in the blood of Christ can save. The Shema and V'ahhavta are the beginning of one's required duty toward God and man - even as they are the beginning of the Jewish worship service on Shabbat. They do not save anybody.

Hope this helps, shalom aleichem (peace upon you).

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Saturday, not Sunday, is the day to be set aside to worship and honor God. This is the 4th commandment. Protestants march in lock-step with the Vatican's denial of God's 4th LAW when they go to worship services on Sunday. God owns Saturday. The NFL owns Sunday.

We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” (Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50)

Who is of highest authority - God or the Pope? Whose LAW are we discussing - God's LAW or Vatican regulations?

He (anti-christ) will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. Daniel (7:25)

 

[Ancient]

What is God's definition of sin?



If we look in scripture, God says that sin is breaking His law.

"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.



So what does this mean, what does scripture identify as His law? Is sin breaking God's Ten Commandment law, and since the law of God is perfect (Psalms 19:7), does it need changing? Or do the Commandments cover "the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13.



If they cover the whole duty of man, what do they tell us to do. If we look at them carefully we see the Commandments in the first four show love for God, the next six show love for our fellowman. So lets see how Christ explains it:



The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it:'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."



Thus was Christ covering all 10 when asked about them...

It is very very simple the Law, God's word which is perfect and infallible. From Gen - the end of Rev. The New does not contradict the Old they are in perfect harmony. It is the doctrines and demons of men that want to add and take away from it which we are commanded not to do. God's Torah is to bless and not to save. It is there to teach us on how to live with each other and how to worship Yahweh our God. The blood of Yeshua is what atones and redeems. Then we are saved which in the New Testament is predominately future tense. James even calls the same law "the law of liberty" keep in mind the only scriptures they had at the time were the Hebrew scriptures, the New Testament was not even compiled until centuries later. There is only 1 Law God's Law. The same Law that Yeshua will be teaching and enforcing from Mount Zion when He returns Isaiah 2:3. Perfect harmony.

Shalom

 

[Ancient]

Which one of the "Ten" did Adam break? If I inherited sin and death because of his transgression, which one was it? I don't think they were given til Sinai and Moses. I could be wrong, there may have been a set laying around somewhere, but then, Adam was the first one to write. Hmm...

YLT Ja 4:17 to him, then, knowing to do good, and not doing, sin it is to him.

YLT 1Jn 5:17 all unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death.



I guess sin is a few things. The root of it is missing the mark, hamartia, not being in His image, spiritual sons and daughters, like His Christ, but persisting and existing, and deceasing in flesh, instead of being heavenly beings. We'll get there, eventually. Til then, all (including us) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
fivesense

One needs to under sin and law from the original text. Yes the laws were written down at Sinai that was when the family of Israel had become a nation. Remember before becoming slaves in Egypt they were a family. A family went into Egypt. Now going back to Adam and Eve in the garden they had laws, they just were not written they are verbally passed on. Before the fall there were laws. Again reiterating one needs to know what law means. Law is the (teaching, instructions and commandments of God) What laws were before the fall? God said till the garden that word till I encourage you to do a word study on in Hebrew. Well tilling the garden is an instruction it is a law or in Hebrew Torah. Another law, Torah or instruction was don't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Sin entered because they broke that law, that Torah, that instruction. They missed that mark.

We also see unwritten laws with Cain and Abel. How did they know to sacrifice and what to sacrifice. Again Cain failed, missed the mark broke a law and then when corrected still did not receive the rebuke and correction and ended up killing Abel. Enoch was taken because of righteousness. He walked with God, so what defines the righteousness that caused him to be taken? There must have been laws that were definitive for him to walk by and live a certain way. Noah was the only righteous family on the earth. Again what defines that. He must of been living and behaving in a way that had already been determined. The laws at Sinai are what was finally put down on record for a nation to live by. Still in play today. Malachi 3:6 God does not change. Heb 13:8 Yeshua is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Yeshua is the word the very word of God, meaning God's word does not change regardless of the doctrines of men and demons.

Meditate on these things.

Blessings and Shalom

 

[Robert Gwin]

NOT precisely correct, sir.

The LAW of Moses, also referred to as the Royal Law because it applies to all people of all nations of all times, defines SIN. You may find the list in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. Violation of any of one these is punishable by DEATH.

SIN is far more serious than simply 'missing the mark'.

If a boy is learning how to ride a bicycle and falls off trying he has made a mistake. If a young girl takes up archery and misses the bull's eye of her target she's made a mistake. Neither child is guilty of a SIN. They've made a mistake, which is generally a good thing. We learn from our mistakes. WE DIE FROM SIN.

In post #67 the subject was muddied by a reference to "the greatest commandment" and Jesus' response to a question posed to Him.

Upon reading the context of the entire passage from Mark 12:28-34 we notice two important points.

The first point is that Our Lord's response consisted of two prayers which begin each shabbat (sabbath) Jewish worship service. These prayers are called the Shema and the V'ahhavta. Every Jew in earshot knew what Jesus was talking about as well as the context in which they are used. They are used during worship services required by the 4th commandment, which non-Jews violate every Sunday. (*)

In the English translation of Mark 12 we read that a debate was going on between Jesus and the Sadducees regarding the resurrection. This was a point of contention on the part of the Sadducees some of whom questioned metaphysical manifestations including the existence of Adonai/God (they still do).

The second point is that in Mark 12:32-33 a scribe, who had overheard the debate, asked Jesus which point of Mosaic LAW was most important. The scribe obviously wanted to know which commandment would result in personal resurrection because that's what the debate was about. When Jesus' answered with the familiar prayers the scribe agreed with Him. At that point in the conversation, Jesus said the scribe wasn't far from the Kingdom of God.

It's important to understand here that the scribe was close, but not on top of the subject. Indeed the Shema and V'ahhavta ARE the most important points in the LAW, but it must be clearly understood here THE LAW DOES NOT SAVE. This is why Jesus said the scribe was close. As someone once said being close is important only in the game of horseshoes or when dropping an atomic bomb.

Only repentance and faith in the blood of Christ can save. The Shema and V'ahhavta are the beginning of one's required duty toward God and man - even as they are the beginning of the Jewish worship service on Shabbat. They do not save anybody.

Hope this helps, shalom aleichem (peace upon you).

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Saturday, not Sunday, is the day to be set aside to worship and honor God. This is the 4th commandment. Protestants march in lock-step with the Vatican's denial of God's 4th LAW when they go to worship services on Sunday. God owns Saturday. The NFL owns Sunday.

We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” (Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50)

Who is of highest authority - God or the Pope? Whose LAW are we discussing - God's LAW or Vatican regulations?

He (anti-christ) will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. Daniel (7:25)

Thanks for your input Rj, I was not in error sir, you just carried it out to the superlative degree. Sin is quite literally violating God's laws. Sin is still the reason why we die. Serious sins practiced now can result in our losing out on everlasting life as well 1 Cor 6:9,10

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks for your input Rj, I was not in error sir, you just carried it out to the superlative degree. Sin is quite literally violating God's laws. Sin is still the reason why we die. Serious sins practiced now can result in our losing out on everlasting life as well 1 Cor 6:9,10

Mr. Gwin:
I agree that you weren't in error regarding SIN.

I posted my remarks for the edification of the general readership. Most churches today do NOT define SIN as the cause of human separation from God. Most do NOT speak or teach of the necessity of repentance. Indeed, at least one major denomination (Methodist) has abandoned spiritual responsibility altogether.

The false gospel of today is one of 'kindness love and good works' NOT repentance leading to conviction of SIN. Kindness love etc. never saved anybody. They are false gods of society - easy to hear and easy to swallow because the idea doesn't require any conviction of any sort.

Thank you for your reply, sir. You give me hope.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[MarriedCouple]

Sin is everything you do that you don't believe is part of your personal faith: Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[[email protected]]

Sin is everything you do that you don't believe is part of your personal faith: Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Just a little off the rails. In railroad terms, that's just enough to wreck the whole train.

SIN is defined by God's LAW - that which was given by God to Moses, also called the LAW of Grace.

The scripture in Romans 14 you quoted out of context is part of a larger passage, which in detail is written from verse 13 to the end of the chapter in verse 23. The same idea is conveyed in 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 and Ezekiel 14:1-11. The idea is that of one's comportment within the religious community and before God. It is NOT about the qualifications for salvation or justification as it is known Biblically.

Personal faith won't save anybody.

Faith in God and the instructions of His LAW will result in salvation for it is the LAW that convicts of SIN and it is the LAW that instructs us how to be rid of it. The LAW itself does not save, but it does point the way to He who can. That person isn't you or I.

God is not interested in our OPINIONS. Our personal faith won't save us or anyone else. It is faith in that which God has provided which can save - the blood of Jesus Christ.

Once justified we may find ourselves in the company of others who have yielded to the Master's will. When we are in that situation, we are encouraged to respect the way Christ has led them to live; refraining from eating meat, refraining from drinking alcoholic beverages and refraining from sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman, etc.

These things are appropriate for good religion, but they don't justify/save. These things are what is commonly referred to as polite social graces, but they don't justify/save. These things are good to encourage one in demonstrating Christ within, but they don't justify/save.

Most churches today have abandoned the Biblical standard of SIN and repentance that leads to salvation. False gospels taught in these congregations, on YouTube and in faux-Christian literature do not exalt God or God's LAW. Instead they rely upon humanistic attitudes that justify OPINION.

God isn't interested in our OPINION.

It is our duty to learn what God expects of us and to follow it.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Robert Gwin]

Mr. Gwin:
I agree that you weren't in error regarding SIN.

I posted my remarks for the edification of the general readership. Most churches today do NOT define SIN as the cause of human separation from God. Most do NOT speak or teach of the necessity of repentance. Indeed, at least one major denomination (Methodist) has abandoned spiritual responsibility altogether.

The false gospel of today is one of 'kindness love and good works' NOT repentance leading to conviction of SIN. Kindness love etc. never saved anybody. They are false gods of society - easy to hear and easy to swallow because the idea doesn't require any conviction of any sort.

Thank you for your reply, sir. You give me hope.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Thanks again Rj, especially for your kind comments sir. Yes sir, I understood that, and that is why I said you expounded on it taking it much further than I did. To support what you said even further, Jesus said that most people would choose to take the broad road to destruction, and of course he meant they would miss out on everlasting life. Most everyone is kind and nice most of the time, but sometimes just meeting one who isn't, makes us think that all people are bad. You are quite correct that since most are nice and kind loving people, that in itself does not mean they will stand with God by any means. Many of them do not even believe in Him.

I cant count the number of times I see those not of my faith that have much better conduct than many of those in my faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sin,

Its interesting, the greek word "hamarte" means to "miss the mark"

so to determine what sin is, we must first determine what the mark is.

God told moses that whoever does not confirm every word of the law. and obey them, they are cursed.

so as we see. As someone said, sin is breaking one of even the least of the commands (not just the ten, the whole of the law)

Jesus gave us an even clearer picture. when he was asked the question what is the greatest command.

Love God
Love your neighbor (who is your neighbor? Everyone!)

so in this aspect. sin is to fail to love others. to put your needs above theirs, to serve self.

That is why sin is also called the flesh, because sin serves self. anything we do which is self serving and not others loving is sin.

the word says if we know to do right and do not do it, it is sin. why? because if we know to do right, and chose not to. who are we serving. The one we re to love, or self?

thats why it is so difficult for people to know what true sin is, they think of commands. but sin is far deeper than this. You can keep a command, and still sin.. Jesus told us in the sermon on the mount, the law says this, But I tell you..

he also told you the standard. Be perfect as you father is perfect.

that is the standard, anythign short of that is sin "hamarte"

 

[[email protected]]

Sin,

Its interesting, the greek word "hamarte" means to "miss the mark"

so to determine what sin is, we must first determine what the mark is.

God told moses that whoever does not confirm every word of the law. and obey them, they are cursed.

so as we see. As someone said, sin is breaking one of even the least of the commands (not just the ten, the whole of the law)

Jesus gave us an even clearer picture. when he was asked the question what is the greatest command.

Love God
Love your neighbor (who is your neighbor? Everyone!)

so in this aspect. sin is to fail to love others. to put your needs above theirs, to serve self.

That is why sin is also called the flesh, because sin serves self. anything we do which is self serving and not others loving is sin.

the word says if we know to do right and do not do it, it is sin. why? because if we know to do right, and chose not to. who are we serving. The one we re to love, or self?

thats why it is so difficult for people to know what true sin is, they think of commands. but sin is far deeper than this. You can keep a command, and still sin.. Jesus told us in the sermon on the mount, the law says this, But I tell you..

he also told you the standard. Be perfect as you father is perfect.

that is the standard, anythign short of that is sin "hamarte"

You wrote:
Jesus gave us an even clearer picture. when he was asked the question what is the greatest command.

Love God
Love your neighbor (who is your neighbor? Everyone!)

so in this aspect. sin is to fail to love others. to put your needs above theirs, to serve self.

Your interpretation is true, but not accurate.

Read Mark 12:18-34

The context of the conversation recorded in the gospel of Mark DOES NOT indicate love is a panacea for SIN. Love isn't a grace that saves anybody. Consider scripture, not popular buzz words and religious slogans.

The passage Mark 12:18-34 is in two parts; 18-27 and 28-34. Please read it.

The first section records a discussion Jesus was having with Sadducees who don't believe in anything metaphysical - no angels, no heaven and no resurrection. Listening on the edge of the debate was a scribe who was truly interested in Jesus' main point, resurrection, but had a question about points of the LAW that would lead to resurrection. In the debate, Jesus was trying to use the LAW to justify the ideology of resurrection.

The second section records the discussion between Jesus and the scribe. Thinking the LAW led to resurrection the scribe wanted to know which one would do the job - which was the most important LAW. Jesus replied with the first two prayers commonly recited during the Jewish worship service; the Schema and the V'ahavta.

Schema: Hear O Israel the Lord our God. The Lord is One.
V'ahavata: the 1st & 2nd commandments

Upon hearing Jesus' recitation of these prayers as LAW, the scribe agreed they were the most important laws. In verse 34 Jesus tells the scribe that he isn't far from the kingdom of God.....meaning he hadn't yet arrived, but was on the right path.

In other words, love of one's neighbor is part of the Kingdom of God, but WILL NOT buy you a ticket to get in.

If one draws a parallel to modern church liturgy one might quote the Lord's Prayer and ask if doing that would save anyone. It won't.

One is saved FOR good works, not BY them.

Strictly speaking, love won't save anybody. It's a nice attitude to have, but one that falls short of redemption and justification and salvation. Failing to love one's neighbor is a SIN, but loving one's neighbor isn't a solution for SIN.

The LAW points the way to God's kingdom but the LAW does not save.

The only thing that will buy anyone a place in the resurrection is faith in the blood of Christ shed upon the cross in payment for SIN, which in turn is defined by Mosaic LAW.

Hope this helps.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You wrote:
Jesus gave us an even clearer picture. when he was asked the question what is the greatest command.

Love God
Love your neighbor (who is your neighbor? Everyone!)

so in this aspect. sin is to fail to love others. to put your needs above theirs, to serve self.

Your interpretation is true, but not accurate.

Read Mark 12:18-34

The context of the conversation recorded in the gospel of Mark DOES NOT indicate love is a panacea for SIN. Love isn't a grace that saves anybody. Consider scripture, not popular buzz words and religious slogans.

The passage Mark 12:18-34 is in two parts; 18-27 and 28-34. Please read it.

The first section records a discussion Jesus was having with Sadducees who don't believe in anything metaphysical - no angels, no heaven and no resurrection. Listening on the edge of the debate was a scribe who was truly interested in Jesus' main point, resurrection, but had a question about points of the LAW that would lead to resurrection. In the debate, Jesus was trying to use the LAW to justify the ideology of resurrection.

The second section records the discussion between Jesus and the scribe. Thinking the LAW led to resurrection the scribe wanted to know which one would do the job - which was the most important LAW. Jesus replied with the first two prayers commonly recited during the Jewish worship service; the Schema and the V'ahavta.

Schema: Hear O Israel the Lord our God. The Lord is One.
V'ahavata: the 1st & 2nd commandments

Upon hearing Jesus' recitation of these prayers as LAW, the scribe agreed they were the most important laws. In verse 34 Jesus tells the scribe that he isn't far from the kingdom of God.....meaning he hadn't yet arrived, but was on the right path.

In other words, love of one's neighbor is part of the Kingdom of God, but WILL NOT buy you a ticket to get in.

If one draws a parallel to modern church liturgy one might quote the Lord's Prayer and ask if doing that would save anyone. It won't.

One is saved FOR good works, not BY them.

Strictly speaking, love won't save anybody. It's a nice attitude to have, but one that falls short of redemption and justification and salvation. Failing to love one's neighbor is a SIN, but loving one's neighbor isn't a solution for SIN.

The LAW points the way to God's kingdom but the LAW does not save.

The only thing that will buy anyone a place in the resurrection is faith in the blood of Christ shed upon the cross in payment for SIN, which in turn is defined by Mosaic LAW.

Hope this helps.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

I do not understand this post. What does this have to do with what I said?

I just gave the definition of sin. not what must be done to pay for it.

who ever said love would save anyone. My love is nothing until I recieve the love of God first ( we love because he first loved us) and even then I will not have perfect love. I will still fall into sin because I still have the flesh (self interest)

if sin is anything other than failing to put the needs of others above your own needs. can you please explain what else that might be?

 

[MarriedCouple]

Just a little off the rails. In railroad terms, that's just enough to wreck the whole train.

SIN is defined by God's LAW - that which was given by God to Moses, also called the LAW of Grace.

The scripture in Romans 14 you quoted out of context is part of a larger passage, which in detail is written from verse 13 to the end of the chapter in verse 23. The same idea is conveyed in 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 and Ezekiel 14:1-11. The idea is that of one's comportment within the religious community and before God. It is NOT about the qualifications for salvation or justification as it is known Biblically.

Personal faith won't save anybody.

Faith in God and the instructions of His LAW will result in salvation for it is the LAW that convicts of SIN and it is the LAW that instructs us how to be rid of it. The LAW itself does not save, but it does point the way to He who can. That person isn't you or I.

God is not interested in our OPINIONS. Our personal faith won't save us or anyone else. It is faith in that which God has provided which can save - the blood of Jesus Christ.

Once justified we may find ourselves in the company of others who have yielded to the Master's will. When we are in that situation, we are encouraged to respect the way Christ has led them to live; refraining from eating meat, refraining from drinking alcoholic beverages and refraining from sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman, etc.

These things are appropriate for good religion, but they don't justify/save. These things are what is commonly referred to as polite social graces, but they don't justify/save. These things are good to encourage one in demonstrating Christ within, but they don't justify/save.

Most churches today have abandoned the Biblical standard of SIN and repentance that leads to salvation. False gospels taught in these congregations, on YouTube and in faux-Christian literature do not exalt God or God's LAW. Instead they rely upon humanistic attitudes that justify OPINION.

God isn't interested in our OPINION.

It is our duty to learn what God expects of us and to follow it.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

We are saved, so don't give opinions on us.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Sin is everything you do that you don't believe is part of your personal faith: Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Amen, Precious friend, "...Without faith it is impossible to please God..." (Heb 11:6).
Now it makes sense to me, what I think "is good," for the wicked, is "sin in God's Sight":

Pro_21:4 "An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin."​

Praise God for all "saved farmers" for whom it is not sin, so we can enjoy food.

and also, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...