What is it with abortion-supporting "Christians"?

[kcnalp]

I oppose abortion. But the very fact that this post is necessary illustrates the hatred many evangelicals here have for Catholics. They love to stereotype other faiths by the worst exemplars of those faiths, but are outraged when their denomination is subjected to such godless generalizations. IMO It is more likely that the best of the pro-choice Christians I've met are saved then evangelicals here here consign all pro-choice Christians to Hell.

btw, the Bible never explicitly condemns abortion, so the claim that it does is based on debated inference. I wager that few evangelicals here even know the earliest explicit Christian condemnation of abortion. And are evangelicals here honest enough to even seek out and analyze how a liberal Christian might justify abortion from Scripture?

So, you're a Catholic promoting abortion?

 

[Berserk]

So, you're a Catholic promoting abortion?

You just illustrated how reluctant evangelicals can to read carefully before responding. If you'd actually read my post, you'd see that I begin with the categorical statement, "I oppose abortion." And like many evangelicals, you assume that if a poster defends Catholics, he must be Catholic. You apparently can't conceive of a Pentecostal evangelical like me insisting on informed discussion free of unfair generalizations--and that, despite the fact that I have successfully sued Catholics in court! Despite this, I am far more impressed by Catholic spirituality than by the peevish and biased evangelical pseudo-spirituality I see in threads like this.

 

[kcnalp]

I am far more impressed by Catholic spirituality than by the peevish and biased evangelical pseudo-spirituality I see in threads like this.

That's what I thought. Including Catholics who support murdering unborn babies?

 

[marksman]

A liberal would call a baby in the womb a fetus.

But I call any liberal on the planet an animal, so...No mask.

Fetus = latin for baby.

 

[Taken]

Um, I would say that ignorance is believing that a child in the womb isn't human.

I have been expressly clear, speaking of WHAT is in the WOMB of a pregnant human female,
IS: an "UBORN developing human".
IS NOT: an "individual BORN human",
"IT" attached to a "barrier" between the female and the 'unborn" thing (called a placenta).
Anyone wants to CALL the "UNBORN" thing:
A baby, A child, A human, A Person...
"That is anyone's choice".
"A Person IS a BORN INDIVIDUAL LIVING human".
* A Person IS NOT an "INDEPENDENT INDIVIDUAL" until it IS:
"BORN and SEPARATED" from the Placenta, and ALIVE".

"MURDER IS the intentional Killing of an "ALIVE INDIVIDUAL PERSON".

"Abortion is the intentionally KILLING of an
"UNBORN DEVELOPING human".

 

[Taken]

That DOESN'T address the question.
Whether or NOT God is bound by time is irrelevant because these verses are talking about the timespan of a HUMAN BEING - not God.

God knew ME before I was born.
He knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah was born.
He consecrated Jeremiah and appointed Jeremiah a prophet BEFORE Jeremiah was born.

Once again - how or why does God consecrate and appoint a NON-human - a lump of cells and tissue - as Prophet to the nations?

You ask "how or why" ... about a lump of cells and tissue?

Read the Scripture...
Jeremiah
[5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

* Jeremiah was "KNOWN" by God;
BEFORE he was FORMED...(cells and tissue were not present, nor require consideration).

* God IS ALL KNOWING.
Gods election to "APPOINT" Jeremiah, IS NOTICE of God KNOWING; in what manner, Jeremiah WOULD Serve the Lord God.

You can either believe God IS ALL Knowing, or not.

 

[Taken]

And as long as you keep repeating that nonsense - you will never understand John 3:5 - or the purpose of Baptism in Christ.

Good luck with that . . .

LOL~ trying to entice an irrelevant argument is but your usual manner and as usual, IRRELEVANT.

"Your manner of repeating: "I'm right, you're wrong, I understand, you don't, blah, blah, blah"...
is old, boring, worn out and irrelevant.

 

[Taken]

Put your ideology to the test: video yourself destroying the egg of an endangered bird, then send that video to the authorities with your name and address, with a note saying you didn’t kill an endangered bird, because it was in the ONLY A THING stage when you destroyed it.

At the trial, when they file charges against you, be sure and stick with your IT WAS ONLY A THING, defense - see how that brilliant bit of reasoning holds up in court,

Uh... I responded to a post about "MURDER", not "KILLING".
You are posting about "KILLING" not "MURDER".

Destroying an "UNBORN" thing...IS KILLING a developing 'thing'.... MURDER IS the intentional KILLING of an "independently ALIVE PERSON...

If you are going to hold a "pseudo court", you should first know the meaning of the "Legal terms".

You can not "MURDER" and UNBORN thing.
You CAN KILL, all kinds of things...At any "stage of development":
A herbal plant, A flower plant, A tree, A human, A building, A idea, A plan...
That is NOT "murder".

 

[Taken]

I quoted YOU and I quoted God.

Taken said: "NO, I do NOT FEAR GOD."

God said: "Psalm 111:10 (NKJV) 10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;"

Wise up before it's too late!

Good grief....GET A DICTIONARY, read, study, make an ounce of effort to enlighten yourself to the meaning of the word...BEGINNING!

IF you STILL "FEAR" God...as YOU definately IMPLY you do...THANKS for sharing...YOU ARE STILL in the BEGINNING STAGE And HAVE
the spirit of fear

"I, (unlike YOU), Already HAVE "surpassed" the BEGINNING"...
"I HAVE the spirit of power, love, sound mind"

2 Tim 1:
[7] For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am okay with abortion in cases of rape or where the life of the mother is in serious jeopardy. Otherwise, I think it's all too often just used to get out of being sexually irresponsible.

Soooo, if a woman is raped - then the child is the enemy??
How did that happen?

As for it being "necessary" to save a woman's life - that's nonsense.
The ONLY case where that would be deemed "necessary" is during an ectopic pregnancy, where the fetus is attached to the fallopian tubes an not the uterus, because BOTH mother and child are likely to die.

Even the Guttmacher Institute - which is the medical statistics arm of Planned Parenthood, states that abortion is NEVER necessary to save the life of the mother - except in the case of ectopic pregnancy,

 

[BreadOfLife]

You ask "how or why" ... about a lump of cells and tissue?

Read the Scripture...
Jeremiah
[5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

* Jeremiah was "KNOWN" by God;
BEFORE he was FORMED...(cells and tissue were not present, nor require consideration).

* God IS ALL KNOWING.
Gods election to "APPOINT" Jeremiah, IS NOTICE of God KNOWING; in what manner, Jeremiah WOULD Serve the Lord God.

You can either believe God IS ALL Knowing, or not.

THANK YOU for proving my point - but you forgot the about other verses.
This proves that Jeremiah's PERSONHOOD existed even BEFORE his body was formed.

As for the Psalm 139:16 - it explicitly states that God ordains ALL of the days of our lives while we are still BEING formed in the womb:
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

You're on the WRONG side.
Deal with it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL~ trying to entice an irrelevant argument is but your usual manner and as usual, IRRELEVANT.

"Your manner of repeating: "I'm right, you're wrong, I understand, you don't, blah, blah, blah"...
is old, boring, worn out and irrelevant.

I was simply pointing out the fact of how your repetition of a fallacy becomes the "truth" is not unlike the philosophy of Hitler's minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels.

Good job . . .

 

[Triumph1300]

I am okay with abortion in cases of rape or where the life of the mother is in serious jeopardy.

I listened to Mario Marillo's testimony: His mother was told by doctors to get an abortion when she was pregnant with Mario.
Good thing she didn't. She survived. and many are accepting Christ through Mario's tent meetings in California.

I also heard a testimony by "a product of rape" who is preaching the gospel world wide and is financing drilling wells in poor areas on the African continent.

A "product of rape" is still a human being.

 

[Taken]

THANK YOU for proving my point - but you forgot the about other verses.

You proved your own point you know not the difference between born and unborn.

This proves that Jeremiah's PERSONHOOD existed even BEFORE his body was formed.

God is all knowing. God does not require the natural birth of a body "coming into fruition", (which the words God uses IS: "coming to pass"), to KNOW what shall "come to pass"!

Obviously too deep for you to Spiritually comprehend, as you desperately try to reduce Gods KNOWING, to that of a man.

As for the Psalm 139:16 - it explicitly states that God ordains ALL of the days of our lives while we are still BEING formed in the womb:
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

You're on the WRONG side.
Deal with it.

LOL ~ What I am, has Zero to do with what drivels out of your mouth.
You should be more concerned why "you" lack Spiritual understanding.

God is ALL KNOWING. His thoughts Always "come to pass". When God reveals His thoughts, it is man WHO waits for the "coming to pass" be manifested.

God has chosen many men, to serve Him...
You seem oblivious, God KNOWS what SHALL BE, before it "comes to pass".

Num 17
[5] And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom...

 

[Michael1985]

A "product of rape" is still a human being.

Oh, there's no question about that. I just don't believe a woman who conceives as a direct result of having been sexually violated should be obligated to potentially further add to the trauma she has just endured by having to carry such a child to term unless she chooses to do so.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You proved your own point you know not the difference between born and unborn.

God is all knowing. God does not require the natural birth of a body "coming into fruition", (which the words God uses IS: "coming to pass"), to KNOW what shall "come to pass"!

Obviously too deep for you to Spiritually comprehend, as you desperately try to reduce Gods KNOWING, to that of a man.

LOL ~ What I am, has Zero to do with what drivels out of your mouth.
You should be more concerned why "you" lack Spiritual understanding.

God is ALL KNOWING. His thoughts Always "come to pass". When God reveals His thoughts, it is man WHO waits for the "coming to pass" be manifested.

God has chosen many men, to serve Him...
You seem oblivious, God KNOWS what SHALL BE, before it "comes to pass".

Num 17
[5] And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom...

Ans as usual - you missed the point of this verse completely because you don't understand Scripture.

Psalm 139:16 expresses the wonderment of what God can do - from a purely HUMAN standpoint. This is NOT a verse about God being outside of time - but of His complete sovereignty from the WOMB to the grave. Here are a few more from that SAME point of view:

Galatians 1:15
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,

Isaiah 49:5
And now the LORD says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him— for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD, and my God has become my strength—

Luke 1:44
For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my WOMB leaped for joy.

Soooooo, John the Baptist "leaped for joy" in his mother's womb.
How can an "unborn blob" experience joy??

 

[Triumph1300]

Quote:
Oh, there's no question about that. I just don't believe a woman who conceives as a direct result of having been sexually violated should be obligated to potentially further add to the trauma she has just endured by having to carry such a child to term unless she chooses to do so.

It's her choice.
Point is, it's still murder.
And she would be guilty of murder.

 

[Taken]

Galatians 1:15
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,

UH...no. Scripture rewitten, changing ... God separated Paul from his mother"s womb....which is a natural birth.

Gal 1:15
[15] But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace....

Saul was called, when an ADULT!!!
Acts 9:
[1] ...Saul...against the disciples of the Lord...
[3] ...journeyed, he came near Damascus: an
[4] ...he...heard a voice saying unto him, Saul...
[5] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest..

Nothing new. Saul was naturally born and against Jesus....The Lord Jesus called Saul and Saul responded with then having belief...

 

[kcnalp]

Oh, there's no question about that. I just don't believe a woman who conceives as a direct result of having been sexually violated should be obligated to potentially further add to the trauma she has just endured by having to carry such a child to term unless she chooses to do so.

Are you really suggesting to murder the baby?

 

[Taken]

Soooooo, John the Baptist "leaped for joy" in his mother's womb.
How can an "unborn blob" experience joy??

LOL~ "unborn blob"

Anyone with a smidgen of common sense, should know, an unborn human in the 5th month of development is not a "blob", and does move around in the womb.