What is Legalism?

[MatthewG]

Thank you for making mention @CharismaticLady

I always thought so to, but Scripture interprets Scripture. The translators were wrong.


Galatians 5:16-18
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

See Romans 7:25
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Romans 7 is such a great chapter.

There is debate on how to handle it one side goes one way, another side goes the other way.

Truth is when it comes down to it a Christian believer will delight in the Law of God meaning they will have love for God by delighting it even though they understand they can not perfect it; they look towards the Lord Jesus Christ in thankfulness, because He did hold onto the law perfectly, having nailed the law to the Cross. - We are carnal sold under sin - our flesh... it is why Paul says in Philippians to live is Christ but to die is gain.

Paul longed to be with Christ - and in his living realized how the holy spirit had changed from the person he was before who murdered people... especially being a zealot for the law himself.

I believe in the human being having two natures; the first being the natural self then when reborn again from above that of having the spiritual self to live with.

They are always constantly fighting between each other.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That is completely false. Spirit was correctly capitalized.

Enoch, the reason I always had a problem with verse 17 is because it contradicts Paul's teaching in Romans 8:9.

But now that I know it is just a recap of those in the flesh who are under the law, and with their minds they struggle against their flesh, and their flesh against their minds, it now makes sense.

I know you hate to ever agree with me, but open your mind. Good grief, how can you not see it is the same wording in Romans 7 and Galatians 5?

Our mind is another word for our spirit that must be born again.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thank you for making mention @CharismaticLady

Can you see that Galatians 5:17 is a recap of being under the law and the struggle of mind vs. sin nature? Jesus frees us from SIN, and that struggle is no more for those who walk after the Spirit. Romans 8:1-9. You may love chapter 7, but I relate to chapter 8. I'm 74, and chapter 7 was a very long time ago for me, to a time when I was a slave to sin. I've been free for 44 years.

 

[marks]

Galatians 5:16-18
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

How does the unregenerate walk in the Spirit, so as to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh? Do you mean that this "walking in the spirit" and being "led by the spirit" refers to the unregenerate man? Dead in trespasses and sins? But somehow having power over those sins? If that is so, why did Jesus come?

Much love!

 

[prism]

Well repentance is a one time act We perform to become believers. The word is metanoia which means to change thinking. We do not repent of our sins after we believe, we acknowledge them per 1 JOhn 1:9

Are you saying once we become saved the Holy Spirit no longer convicts us of sin?

 

[MatthewG]

Can you see that Galatians 5:17 is a recap of being under the law and the struggle of mind vs. sin nature? Jesus frees us from SIN, and that struggle is no more for those who walk after the Spirit. Romans 8:1-9. You may love chapter 7, but I relate to chapter 8. I'm 74, and chapter 7 was a very long time ago for me, to a time when I was a slave to sin. I've been free for 44 years.

Right there with you friend. It's a great chapter in the realization in what you have brought forth. Yes, do see it from Galatians 5:17. It makes it very clear in G5; about the freedom we truly have in Christ Jesus if you walk by the spirit. All credit and glory goes to our Father in heaven.

 

[CharismaticLady]

How does the unregenerate walk in the Spirit, so as to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh? Do you mean that this "walking in the spirit" and being "led by the spirit" refers to the unregenerate man? Dead in trespasses and sins? But somehow having power over those sins? If that is so, why did Jesus come?

Much love!

Not at all. Sorry, but I haven't a clue how you arrived at that. Romans 7 is about the law, and that is what chapter 8 frees us from. Same with Galatians 5:16-18

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the S(s)pirit, and the S(s)pirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

We have a body, soul and spirit
That is a body, heart, and mind.

Romans 7:25
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Right there with you friend. It's a great chapter in the realization in what you have brought forth. Yes, do see it from Galatians 5:17. It makes it very clear in G5; about the freedom we truly have in Christ Jesus if you walk by the spirit. All credit and glory goes to our Father in heaven.

Yes, that verse has puzzled me for decades until today!!! I'm glad you are spiritually gifted to see it too, and to rejoice with me. I just love when this happens and He isn't through teaching me.

 

[MatthewG]

That is so wonderful, friend thank you for sharing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well I would say that we enter into rest from our works because of Jesus. Not that He is our rest. He is the cause of us resting from our works to be righteous. Because Jesus is our righteousness.

28“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You symbolically kill people. Still the spirit of symbolically killing people...condoning such actions is despicable.

It is not despicable to agree with God's righteous judgment that the unrighteous be put to death. Every born again person agreed with the justness of that truth (that the unrighteous deserve death) when they fled to take hold of the hope God has offered us in the forgiveness of our sins through Jesus Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It makes people feel holy to say they observe the Mosaic Law.

Don't you feel clean and set apart from the world when you live in accordance with God's commands? It's okay to feel the holiness that God bestows on those who have faith in him and live for him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All things fulfilled in Christ for sure but don't make me copy in all the scriptures where Paul calls the Law a ministry of death and a curse and that we are not under the law.

The law is a ministry of death when it is observed in order to earn a declaration of righteousness. It is not a ministry of death just for obeying it. For example, loving your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18) is not the law ministering death.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul calls the Law a ministry of death and a curse and that we are not under the law.

If you think 'not being under the law' means you do not have to keep any of the commands in the law you are sorely mistaken as to what it means to not be under the law. Not being under the law means a couple of things. Mainly that the believer is not under the condemnation of the law.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So your point is....we give the Mosaic Law lip service?

You do not have to keep a law that was not written for you. Per the example I gave you, you do not have to keep the law about crapping on the ground if you do not crap on the ground. Very simple. Christians foolishly like to use the 'you have to keep all 613 laws if you want to claim to be a law keeper' argument to justify casting down the law (the very thing Jesus said he did not come to do - Matthew 5:17), not knowing that if they actually read the law they'd realize there are laws that 1) don't apply to their sex, or nationality, or situation, and 2) are already forever and perfectly fulfilled for us through the finished work of Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, all the literal deaths required by the law have been died by Jesus.

Find that scripture!

"...one died for all, and therefore all died." 2 Corinthians 5:14

Christ died all the death penalties required by God's righteous and holy and just law. He is the burn for burn, wound for wound, life for life, and eye for eye that the justice of God's law requires. Somebody shout hallelujah!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Law cannot change...

"For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed as well." Hebrews 7:12

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...and how you follow it cannot change.

"...we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

Here's an example of how you 'keep' the law in the new way of the Spirit......

9For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”d Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Isn’t He actually speaking on our behalf? Indeed, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they should also expect to share in the harvest. 1 Corinthians 9:9-10​

You probably did not know that every time you give to support your pastor you are fulfilling and upholding Deuteronomy 25:4. If you believe this is not a valid concept, remember that Christ is the fulfillment of all the laws of sacrifice for sin. When you believe in Christ all the righteous requirements for sacrifice for sin in the law are marked 'fulfilled' for you—fulfilled to God's complete and total satisfaction. And so we 'keep' the law in the new way of the Spirit and faith in Jesus Christ. The believer is an upholder of all the law of Moses (Romans 3:31), not a destroyer of it.

 

[Grailhunter]

The law is a ministry of death when it is observed in order to earn a declaration of righteousness. It is not a ministry of death just for obeying it. For example, loving your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18) is not the law ministering death.

No, and Paul did not make that stipulation.

 

[Grailhunter]

It is not despicable to agree with God's righteous judgment that the unrighteous be put to death. Every born again person agreed with the justness of that truth (that the unrighteous deserve death) when they fled to take hold of the hope God has offered us in the forgiveness of our sins through Jesus Christ.

I said that by Christian standards the Mosaic Law despicable
Here I copied it in for ya.

Ferris, go read the Law!
Beside betraying Christ and Christianity?
LOL
There is a lot that can happen if you try to keep the Mosaic Law....like committed to an insane asylum or sentenced to prison.
613 Mosaic Laws....some of them require you to kill people for certain things, some can be family members.
People keep the laws they can sell their daughters in to sex slavery.
Have multiple wives.
Divorce wives at will
And if you go to war you have to kill all that breaths and do not forget the babies.
And then there is more.
By Christian standards the Mosaic Law is despicable.