What is Predetermined?

[robert derrick]

The answer is in the question: What is predetermined, not who.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Omniscience foreknows who, predestination foreknows what, not who.

Foreknowing who is not because of predestinating who.

Foreknowing who is simply the omniscience of God to know who by name, not to predestine who by name.

God foreknows who, and He predestinated whosoever to be conformed to His own image: As with Adam, whom He foreknew and determined by counsel to create him in Their image:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

The great error of Calvin was to falsely declare that the omniscience of God foreknowing who, required the predetermining of who, before knowing who.

Omniscience of God is not the result of predestination of God for who to choose, but is by watching all things come to pass unto the end from the beginning: those whosoever will come to Him and did freely choose to obey Him rather than the devil.

God foreknew in the beginning and so foreknows now, because the Word watches and watched from on high above the heavens, all things to come to pass in creation. And the Word being with God, God foreknew all who would come unto Him before creating the heaven and the earth.

God foreknew because He saw it come to pass before creating man, not because He predetermined who would and who would not come unto Him before the beginning.

God foreknew who by seeing whosever, not by predetermining who would be whosoever.

 

[robert derrick]

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Them He foreknew would come to Him and be justified and glorified of Him, are only them He also foreknew would endure to overcome temptation unto the end, and not to turn back from Him to their sins and trespasses again:

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The false prophecy of Calvin's predestinated assurance of heaven over hell, is for them being only foreknown to believe and name His name, and yet not be conformed to His image in righteousness, but willingly and knowingly go on still in their sins and trespasses.

Them Whom He did foreknow coming to Him and finishing the race lawfully unto the end, are them He did predestinate to be conformed to His image, and them who He foreknew to be conformed to His image, are also them He called to be saints, and them He foreknew to be saints are them He justified by the works of faith as saints, and them He foreknew to be saints unto the end are them he glorifies with spiritual bodies in the resurrection of the dead.

No man is predetermined, precalled, prejustified, and so prejudged, and preglorified before ever coming to Him, much less enduring for Him unto the end: No man is justified by faith alone, which is dead, but by the works of God to be called the Friend of God, even as Abraham was justified by works that God saw Him do, from high above the heavens and upon the earth beneath with him.

God will not justify any man without doing works of faith that please Him.

No man is justified and judged before the time of his works, because God judges all by their works:

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

It is not possible to be prejustified and judged righteous by God before ever doing the works of righteousness of God, and so neither is any called, and neither is any predestined by name, but only preknown by sight of God upon all things on earth, and thus known of God in the beginning.

Even as God does not preglorify any man before enduring temptation unto the end, so He does not prejustify any man before enduring temptation to overcome sin.

God foreknowing is about who by name, but God predestinating, calling, justifying, and glorifying is all what God has for whosoever comes unto Him by faith freely from the heart.

God did see them all from beginning to end, and so foreknew them all from the beginning and knows them now in this life:

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[robert derrick]

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

One thing is for sure: them not departing from all iniquity and going on still in their sins and trespasses as sinners and not saints, certainly are not known of the Lord now, and so are not foreknown of Him at all.

Them not to doing what is predestinated, are not them who He foreknows: departing from all iniquity and being confirmed to His image in this life:

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

This is them who are in deed and in truth conforming to His image, not them remaining conformed to this sinful world, trusting in being 'foredetermined for heaven':

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Them decieved into thinking themselves being predestinated to heaven vs those predestinated to hell, are them not believing they need to obey His righteousness, even as He obeyed the Father, in order to obtain eternal salvation.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

We are to be conformed to his image and so to be righteous as he is righteous in this world, not waiting with unconditionally secured and predetermined salvation for the next, which will be too late, and they will be greatly astonished and ashamed at His appearing:

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

The warning of the Lord is not to the sinners of the world that believe not at all, but is plainly to them that believe they are foreknown and therefore predestined, precalled, prejustified, and prejudged for heaven and not for hell, and so go on still in the sins and trespasses even as all sinners of the world.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Here we go…. More anti calvinism nonsense. I have no idea why you insist on showing your ignorance of scripture. But you do seem to be like the pigs who return to the mud.

 

[robert derrick]

Since every soul is foreknown of God, what is so special about being foreknown of God?

One may say, I'm foreknown. But every man can say the same, all souls being foreknown.

It is being foreknown to be them of faith that Scripture specially speaks of, and so it is them being foreknown to remain faithful unto the end that Scripture specially commends.

God foreknows unbelieving sinners, God foreknows believing sinners, and God knows believing and obedient saints unto the end.

God did foreknow His faithful servant as well as the hypocrite, who names His name with lips only, but in works denies Him.

Therefore, the Scripture of being foreknown unto glorification is only for them doing that He predetermined to do by faith: to be conformed to His image of righteousness, to be called to be saints, to be justified as saints, and to be gloried saints in the end.

Them He foreknew to begin the race with confession of faith, and run unlawfully going on still in their trespasses, are not them He foreknew to be conformed, called, justified, and glorified with Him in the end.

Being forknown is nothing. Being foreknown to believe and come to Him is something good, but being foreknown to continue steadfast unto the end, being righteous as He is righteous, they are the only ones foreknown in glory with their names written in the Lamb's book of life.

Calvin's delusion of being predestinated to heaven, simply for being foreknown is a joke of the devil, played upon unashamed hypocrites.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

How can you say in one breath that you dont sin, yet at the same time, say that OSAS is false??
You still dont get predestination works.
Andddd you make it sound like works are necessary for salvation.
How can your theology be so wrong?? What denomination are you??

 

[Renniks]

Suppose I confess and repent two minutes before I die, how many good works did I do? Now I fully agree that Calvinism is wrong. But I also don't believe works save anyone ever. Works are the natural result of faith. Saying that they save is getting the cart before the horse.

 

[robert derrick]

Suppose I confess and repent two minutes before I die, how many good works did I do? Now I fully agree that Calvinism is wrong. But I also don't believe works save anyone ever. Works are the natural result of faith. Saying that they save is getting the cart before the horse.

So, do you have some correction to make to what is being offered? or is what being offered just challenging something you like to think, and you don't know why.

I.e. it would be more helpful for you to be specific:

Suppose I confess and repent two minutes before I die, how many good works did I do?

The thief on the cross did. Obviously his works weren't so good in the end. By your statement, neither have been yours.

Now I fully agree that Calvinism is wrong.

Then have I rebuked it wrongly?

But I also don't believe works save anyone ever.

Neither do I. Have I said something specific that makes you think so?

Works are the natural result of faith.

This is an amoral statement of fact. Naturally we all do what we believe, and so what we do is naturally from what we believe.

The question is what are we believing? The faith of Jesus after the Spirit, or the faith of the world after the flesh?

Righteousness of God is by the faith of Jesus, but ongoing sins and tresapasses of the world are by the faith of another christ, not Jesus.

Saying that they save is getting the cart before the horse.

True. And yet works do justify, without which there is no salvation.

Obviously, you know something true is being taught here, but you aren't sure what, and so your natural defensive response is to try and write it off as teaching salvation by works, which is not the case.

So, try to be specific, and I will try to explain.

Or point something out you don't agree with and correct me.

 

[robert derrick]

How can you say in one breath that you dont sin, yet at the same time, say that OSAS is false??
You still dont get predestination works.
Andddd you make it sound like works are necessary for salvation.
How can your theology be so wrong?? What denomination are you??

How can you say in one breath that you dont sin.

By taking enough of a breath beforehand?

 

[robert derrick]

Calvin's carnal minded doctrine of the 'predestinated who', was by not having the mind of Christ to understand the Spirit that wrote the Scriptures from the beginning, by first seeing all things come to pass from beginning to end.

The carnal mind only things along time in one direction: We can only forknow who we will bless or curse, by predetermining who we want to bless or curse.

But God is not so. God first watches all things come to pass, and so foreknows from the beginning, who will come to pass.

Thus, He does not predetermine who will come to pass, but only foreknows by witnessing the time of passing.

God is Three, who can witness coming to pass, at the time of passing, while knowing beforehand what will come to pass, because the Word witnessing at the time of passing, was God and with God in the beginning, before anything ever came to pass.

Predetermination of God is what whoever believes will do, if they believe from the heart. It is not predetermining who will believe, by creating some souls to believe, and other souls not to believe.

Foreknowing who will come to pass, by watching them come to pass, is not by predetermining who will come to pass.

The cart before the horse of Calvin, is predetermining who before ever knowing who, nor is it knowing who and so determining who.

God simply knows who because he saw whosoever, before whosoever ever was born.

But he predetermined what whosoever must do to obtain eternal salvation: believe from the heart, be conformed to His image, answer the call to be a saint, be justified by the works of the saints as Abraham, and endure obediently unto the end for eternal salvation.

 

[robert derrick]

Predetermination of what was before omniscience of who.

God took counsel with Himself how to bring many sons unto glory, and by wisdom searched out, determined beforehand to do so by free will of the souls He would make.

God would make all souls equally perfectly with free will to choose for themselves to obey or to disobey Him: God determined that this was the only way by which He could save, redeem, sanctify, and glorify them that love Him with all the heart.

God then watched from on high above all the heavens to see it all come to pass, so that He saw that it was good in the end: acceptable for Him in eternal glory.

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Thus, He foreknew all who would come to Him and be glorified by Him, by His predetermined counsel and will to choose faith for being conformed to His image, answer the high calling to be saints, be justified by works of His righteousness, and attain to the resurrection of the dead by enduring and overcoming temptation unto the end.

Predetermining what would save unto the end, free will of the soul by faith, worked in the end to bring many souls unto glory.

Predetermining who will be glorified and who will not before conception, nullifies free will and faith: God saves by faith, not by predetermined outcome, which has no free will, no faith, nor charity from the heart.

Them that trust in 'predetermined who', therefore have no responsibility to obey for eternal salvation, even as they themselves say openly and without shame.

 

[ScottA]

The answer is in the question: What is predetermined, not who.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Omniscience foreknows who, predestination foreknows what, not who.

Foreknowing who is not because of predestinating who.

Foreknowing who is simply the omniscience of God to know who by name, not to predestine who by name.

God foreknows who, and He predestinated whosoever to be conformed to His own image: As with Adam, whom He foreknew and determined by counsel to create him in Their image:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

The great error of Calvin was to falsely declare that the omniscience of God foreknowing who, required the predetermining of who, before knowing who.

Omniscience of God is not the result of predestination of God for who to choose, but is by watching all things come to pass unto the end from the beginning: those whosoever will come to Him and did freely choose to obey Him rather than the devil.

God foreknew in the beginning and so foreknows now, because the Word watches and watched from on high above the heavens, all things to come to pass in creation. And the Word being with God, God foreknew all who would come unto Him before creating the heaven and the earth.

God foreknew because He saw it come to pass before creating man, not because He predetermined who would and who would not come unto Him before the beginning.

God foreknew who by seeing whosever, not by predetermining who would be whosoever.

None of this is what Paul was saying.

It's a complete misunderstanding...not by Paul, but those who try to apply literary knowledge to determining what he meant.

God does not "Pre" anything. He is "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

No...but rather, Paul was talking baby talk to babes. This is how you tell a child about "forever." You break it down into baby steps, days, and weeks, and years, etc., and say things like "as numerous as the sand on the sea shore", and "a thousand times a thousand", and "a thousand years." But God is timeless.

Paul also said, "You observe days and months and seasons and years." (as the ungodly do, because they know nothing more than the ways of the world) "I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain."

And he even goes on, seemingly against Christ (but for Christ), to say, "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits." ...But God also permits one not to mature.

But we are rather, to "Press on."

 

[robert derrick]

Scriptures that prove predetermining who to be saved and not to be saved is a lie:

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Every soul is equally created the same by God: lightened by Christ.

Christ does not choose to lighten one and not another, neither does Christ lighten to not believe and choose evil.

Christ only lightens to do good, but choosing the good or the evil is the free will and judgment of each soul equally.

Every soul is created equally lightened by Christ as that of Adam, howbeit covered in sinful flesh by the corrupted seed of Adam.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

God does not command them that He preordained unto destruction to repent. God does not foolishly rebuke them that will not be corrected, which he foreknew because He foreordained them to be such.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

If God would predetermine some to be saved, and some not to be saved, then God would not have all men to be saved.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

God would not draw all men unto Himself, if He predetermined some not to be drawn unto Himself.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If some men's sins were not to be forgiven and delivered by predeterminant will of God, then He would not be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world of men, but only for the sins of His own prechosen to be forgiven and saved by Himself.

Calvin's predetermination of who to be saved and not to be saved rejects Jesus baring and dying for the sins of the whole world of men.

As one man said, if God has already predetermined who, then the cross is not necessary, and Jesus dying on the cross was in vain.

Calvin's predestined souls to be saved or not to be saved is a lie of the devil, believed only by them who would by pride and feigned humility, justify their ongoing sins and tespasses unto death, only to be resurrected unto life, because they believed a lie unto death in their sins and trespasses.

We are all commanded to repent and depart from our iniquities unto the end, that we may be known of Him from on high seeing all things in heaven and in earth and in the very hearts of men, and thus be foreknown of Him from the beginning, who believed and obeyed Him unto the end for eternal salvation, and them who did not obey Him unto shame and condemnation.

 

[Renniks]

The thief on the cross did. Obviously his works weren't so good in the end. By your statement, neither have been yours.

It was a hypothetical situation that I was posing.
All of us have good and bad deeds in reality.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

How can you say in one breath that you dont sin.

By taking enough of a breath beforehand?

newsflash!!! You sin every. Single. Day. You cant stop. Everyone on this planet sins every single day.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Scriptures that prove predetermining who to be saved and not to be saved is a lie:

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Every soul is equally created the same by God: lightened by Christ.

Christ does not choose to lighten one and not another, neither does Christ lighten to not believe and choose evil.

Christ only lightens to do good, but choosing the good or the evil is the free will and judgment of each soul equally.

Every soul is created equally lightened by Christ as that of Adam, howbeit covered in sinful flesh by the corrupted seed of Adam.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

God does not command them that He preordained unto destruction to repent. God does not foolishly rebuke them that will not be corrected, which he foreknew because He foreordained them to be such.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

If God would predetermine some to be saved, and some not to be saved, then God would not have all men to be saved.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

God would not draw all men unto Himself, if He predetermined some not to be drawn unto Himself.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If some men's sins were not to be forgiven and delivered by predeterminant will of God, then He would not be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world of men, but only for the sins of His own prechosen to be forgiven and saved by Himself.

Calvin's predetermination of who to be saved and not to be saved rejects Jesus baring and dying for the sins of the whole world of men.

As one man said, if God has already predetermined who, then the cross is not necessary, and Jesus dying on the cross was in vain.

Calvin's predestined souls to be saved or not to be saved is a lie of the devil, believed only by them who would by pride and feigned humility, justify their ongoing sins and tespasses unto death, only to be resurrected unto life, because they believed a lie unto death in their sins and trespasses.

We are all commanded to repent and depart from our iniquities unto the end, that we may be known of Him from on high seeing all things in heaven and in earth and in the very hearts of men, and thus be foreknown of Him from the beginning, who believed and obeyed Him unto the end for eternal salvation, and them who did not obey Him unto shame and condemnation.

theres so much nonsense in your comment. But let me clarify your stance; you are anti-calvinist. Calvinism is 100% Biblical. No other doctrine is as correct as calvinism. The truth is, anything other than calvinism is merely not the complete truth. Every single thing robert derrick has mentioned, EVERYTHING, has been not just wrong, but heretical.

 

[robert derrick]

None of this is what Paul was saying.

It's a complete misunderstanding...not by Paul, but those who try to apply literary knowledge to determining what he meant.

God does not "Pre" anything. He is "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

No...but rather, Paul was talking baby talk to babes. This is how you tell a child about "forever." You break it down into baby steps, days, and weeks, and years, etc., and say things like "as numerous as the sand on the sea shore", and "a thousand times a thousand", and "a thousand years." But God is timeless.

Paul also said, "You observe days and months and seasons and years." (as the ungodly do, because they know nothing more than the ways of the world) "I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain."

And he even goes on, seemingly against Christ (but for Christ), to say, "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits." ...But God also permits one not to mature.

But we are rather, to "Press on."

God does not "Pre" anything.

So, you do not believe in Calvin's predestinating of certain souls to be saved, and certain souls not to be saved?

Or, is the teaching here misrepresenting it?

However, God certainly does 'pre' something, so your lead statement is false:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

None of this is what Paul was saying.

Show how please. I didn't see any solid correction in your philosophic discussion.

...But God also permits one not to mature.

That's alright baby, no need to grow up, Mommy grace is still here for you?

But we are rather, to "Press on."

In sins and trespasses. Right.

God shows what happens to them that refuse to repent and go on to the perfecting of the saints: they become stillborn and exposed permanently to the sins of the flesh and of the world, so that it becomes impossible to repent, while putting Christ to an open shame of perpetual double minded hypocrisy.

Scripture tells us to go ahead and repent already, and so move on to perfection, and not remain as babes in never-ending repenting that never just repents.

The first doctrines are to repent and then move on to greater things in Christ. Paul urges us to leave never-ending repenting behind, not to just quit repentance altogether and go on.

We don't fail to repent and then just by pass that goal post, and move on to celebrating something better: unconditionally secured salvation without repentance by grace.

We do the first steps of salvation, which includes repentance of dead works and baptism, and only then can we leave them behind to go on to something more perfect: the perfecting of the saints who have repented and been baptized.

We don't remain as babes unskillful in the word of righteousness, by passing repentance of dead works, to go on to somewhere over the rainbow.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

What is predestination? Is predestination biblical? | GotQuestions.org

 

[robert derrick]

It was a hypothetical situation that I was posing.
All of us have good and bad deeds in reality.

So no one lives holily and justly and unblameably in this present world? To be righteous as He is righteous?

No one is be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless at His appearing?

Everyone is wretchedly double minded in the faith?

Just what are these 'bad' ungodly and unrighteous sinful deeds that you do and speak of?

 

[Oceanprayers]

"What is predetermined?"

Everything. God is sovereign.

Proverbs 16:4 Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Verse 33: The lot is cast into the lap;But the whole disposing thereof is of Jehovah.

Acts 4:26-28 ASV
The kings of the earth set themselves in array,
And the rulers were gathered together,
Against the Lord, and against his Anointed:

27 for of a truth in this city against thy holy Servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, 28 to do whatsoever thy hand and thy council foreordained to come to pass.