What is satan's strategy of Armeggeden?

[ScottA]

Being perfectly one in unity is not be the same person. The Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. No created man nor angel is ever God. The first sin was Lucifer thinking to make himself God and tempting man to do the same. It's idolatry from the heart of created angels and men. Men are created in God's image to become as God but not to become God. There is only one Creator. Men will always be creations of God, not Creators. There is only one Word of God and is God. Men will never become their own Words in their own right with their own power to make anything by their own Word.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

No man will never has his own Light to be the light and life of others.

I understand your reaction, but surely you have not fully considered the "image" of God which He made in creating Adam. That image was [one] man, from whom God took a part and made all mankind, saying "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become [one] flesh."

One.

Now, it is true that the "image" is not the "One" as portrayed in marriage, as it first was with Adam--but then again, it was just an "image", and a "dim" one, one on the level of "dust." But the Oneness, that Christ prayed for was not on the level of dust, but on the level of God.

What then is the point of God drawing a picture or creating an image--if we see the image as real instead of what it is an image of--which is God?

Do you not see the difference, and will you not accredit God and His intentions and promises as being greater than His lowly creation?

 

[ScottA]

I don't know any verse that says anything is taken out of God. Jesus Christ came from God not taken out of God. Taken out of God sounds like a blood transfusion and put into someone else. That just don't sound right. When we are born of God with God dwelling in us, nothing is taken out of God to live independently in us. That just sounds like becoming God or gods ourselves with something of our own that now belongs to us to have as we will. God can give and also take away. Our physical blood is ours alone but that is not the blood of Christ we drink. You're certainly not saying out physical blood and the spiritual blood of Christ are now intermingled? Some like JW's believe their blood is somehow like that and so forbid transfusions.

Yes, apparently you do not. But I have since given you the verse.

 

[ScottA]

Where is this Jesus dying again idea coming from? How is that somehow suggested by anyone? We die once physically but can die again spiritually by returning to our old life of sin. Are you saying we cannot die spiritually to God but are now as Jesus alive forevermore after his bodily resurrection and walking on earth?

Here in your previous post:

Whoa friend you may want to rewrite that too. We are not the resurrected sons of God walking on the earth as Jesus was the resurrected Son of God walking with disciples for 40 days. Maybe you meant we now walk as He walked in His own flesh and blood days on earth until we die as He did. When we die we then wait in the presence of the Lord until our bodies are resurrected and we are clothed with immortality on earth to rise into the air to meet Him. We live forever in Christ spiritually now and bodily then.

You compared our walk unto death to me telling you that Jesus died in the flesh and then rose up and continued to walk before leaving this world. What is missing is your full understanding (apparently) of the fact that being born again is the death of the flesh, and how it could possibly be that "old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new" if we don't actually die but seem to live on. I get that. But the explanation is the same as God saying "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die” when Adam and Eve seem to live on for years and years. So, before you completely reject what I am explaining--understand that I am explaining both scenarios, and if you reject my claim about the one, you also reject God's claim on the other.

The reality--not of mankind and this world--but of God, is that there is His reality that is [actually] true, and then there is the "image" of that reality poorly or "dimly" depicted on the lowly level of the "dust" of this world. In other words, this world is a parable of what is actually real with God--meaning, that all mankind is [actually] dead (as Jesus said) until or unless we are born again of the spirit of God, and so live.

It is in that reality of God, that I told you that we who are born again of the spirit of God, die to the flesh, but continue to walk in risen flesh as He did, until we leave this world. Which death Jesus did not describe as going first to the grave, or last, or even at all, but said, "though he may die, he shall live." Which is just another empty claim of wishful thinking by God, then Christ, and also by me--or it is all the [actual] truth, as I have explained.

And yet, it is a lot to take in.

What's missing from your statement that He died and walked alive is that He died and then rose again bodily from the dead and walked again with His resurrected immortal body. We are of His flesh and bone but our bodies are not His resurrected body walking on earth, if that's what you're trying to say.

We must now walk as He walked as a man before His death, burial, and resurrection. Surely you're not saying we are walking on earth as He walked after His resurrection? We can't appear and vanish at will.

No, but what is missing...is that He did not "walk again with His resurrected immortal body" in the way that many have believed, but gave His body which was not immortal to the church, saying "take, eat, this is my body." Which is also written in the scriptures, as "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."

Which, yes, opens up a great amount of other issues to confront. But this is where it must begin.

 

[Always Believing]

I understand your reaction, but surely you have not fully considered the "image" of God which He made in creating Adam. That image was [one] man, from whom God took a part and made all mankind, saying "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become [one] flesh."

One.

Now, it is true that the "image" is not the "One" as portrayed in marriage, as it first was with Adam--but then again, it was just an "image", and a "dim" one, one on the level of "dust." But the Oneness, that Christ prayed for was not on the level of dust, but on the level of God.

What then is the point of God drawing a picture or creating an image--if we see the image as real instead of what it is an image of--which is God?

Do you not see the difference, and will you not accredit God and His intentions and promises as being greater than His lowly creation?

You're mistaking me. My point is that God's image we are created with is not the flesh, but the soul and spirit. The body is what is resurrected from the dead for those who are born again and and spiritually risen from the death of sins and trespasses. A new man in the same body. If we remain faithful to the end, then we are housed in the resurrected and changed body we have now.

We are created anew in His image again, and we are only His image not He Himself. Like marriage we are made one with Him by His divine nature and seed, but only in unity not in being the same Person. Seeds cast by the sower is not taken out of the sower. We are of His flesh and bones, but only He has His resurrected flesh and bones and we will never be His resurrected flesh and bones. He is the Lamb that will be the only one with the marks of His sacrifice still seen in His resurrected flesh and bones.

 

[Always Believing]

Ok. There's lots we could continue to say and respond to and maybe we can, but I want to cut to the chase here.

It is in that reality of God, that I told you that we who are born again of the spirit of God, die to the flesh, but continue to walk in risen flesh as He did, until we leave this world.... Which death Jesus did not describe as going first to the grave, or last, or even at all, but said, "though he may die, he shall live."

You are saying your flesh body is risen and resurrected from the dead? You saying you physically have or are partaking of Jesus' resurrected flesh and bones? Are you like Eve being given an immortal rib taken out of the resurrected body of Christ? Do you believe your current flesh is dead and risen again like the body of Christ from the tomb? Your risen flesh and body and bones of Jesus Christ therefore cannot die again and go to the grave, even as He could not?

You're not just walking honestly and righteously as He did before His death with mortal flesh and blood, but you are literally walking with His resurrected body as he did for 40 days? You are only waiting for your ascension with a cloud? You cannot be physically killed?

Please correct me if I am wrong about what you are saying. This is not hyperbole because you are talking about having risen flesh that will not go to the grave at all.

 

[ScottA]

Believing the Bible that our dead bodies are resurrected from the dead is not insisting or even trying to take our flesh with us. That's funny. It is not the mindset of the devil to believe that. We are all looking and waiting for the Lord and our body's change to immortality. We have the eternal life of Jesus Christ spiritually within our mortal bodies, but we are not yet resurrected to it with our immortal bodies. You're not saying that are you?

The elements of this world is lust and corrupt living, not the flesh itself. The wicked take their lust for the flesh with them to hell, but not their flesh. We escape the lust and corruption of the world with our bodies. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We leave our old lives behind not our bodies. I've still got my same old body right with me. Not my same old life. The Bible says we now sit and have our conversation in heavenly places, but our bodies are still alive on earth and we still look for our Lord from heaven. For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. Our eternal resurrection with enteral salvation has not yet come.
We still have some enduring and living to do on earth otherwise our conversation will be in hell. And it won't be heavenly.

Indeed, that is the belief of many who have not understood. There is no flesh in heaven, nor can the flesh enter in. On the contrary, we wait (even if we do not know better) for the perfecting of God, whom is spirit and yet can manifest in whatever form anywhere anytime. But that is not to say that we are converted in the flesh, but rather in the spirit--the flesh profits nothing, is nothing, and returns to nothing. The flesh is returned to the dust and dissolved with fervent heat and with fire. It is not biblical to say or believe otherwise.

The passage that you quoted above does not say that at all, but says, "unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" which not in the flesh as many have believed. But is in the flesh as "I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me" when we hear Him knocking and open the door, which the time of our being born again of the spirit of God, and thus "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us." His body the church. This is the testimony, that He has indeed come in the flesh. And yet when "we who are alive and remain" too leave this world, the dust of our flesh returns to the dust of this world, and the spirit to Him who gave it...just as it is written. So, no, we do not still look for Him to come...unless we have not yet seen Him "as He is", which is to "grieve the Holy Spirit" by whom He comes again. Which He does not do according to the flesh, but "according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself", which is according to God...whom is spirit.

Yes, heavenly, or not heavenly. This is true.

 

[ScottA]

You're mistaking me. My point is that God's image we are created with is not the flesh, but the soul and spirit. The body is what is resurrected from the dead for those who are born again and and spiritually risen from the death of sins and trespasses. A new man in the same body. If we remain faithful to the end, then we are housed in the resurrected and changed body we have now.

We are created anew in His image again, and we are only His image not He Himself. Like marriage we are made one with Him by His divine nature and seed, but only in unity not in being the same Person. Seeds cast by the sower is not taken out of the sower. We are of His flesh and bones, but only He has His resurrected flesh and bones and we will never be His resurrected flesh and bones. He is the Lamb that will be the only one with the marks of His sacrifice still seen in His resurrected flesh and bones.

No, but I have already explained.

 

[ScottA]

Ok. There's lots we could continue to say and respond to and maybe we can, but I want to cut to the chase here.

You are saying your flesh body is risen and resurrected from the dead? You saying you physically have or are partaking of Jesus' resurrected flesh and bones? Are you like Eve being given an immortal rib taken out of the resurrected body of Christ? Do you believe your current flesh is dead and risen again like the body of Christ from the tomb? Your risen flesh and body and bones of Jesus Christ therefore cannot die again and go to the grave, even as He could not?

You're not just walking honestly and righteously as He did before His death with mortal flesh and blood, but you are literally walking with His resurrected body as he did for 40 days? You are only waiting for your ascension with a cloud? You cannot be physically killed?

Please correct me if I am wrong about what you are saying. This is not hyperbole because you are talking about having risen flesh that will not go to the grave at all.

I am saying that what was true of Paul who said, "for me, to live is Christ" is true of all who are born again of the spirit of God, to whom Christ gave His body, to be His body. But, to answer your question, yes, "though he may die, he shall live."

But it is not that "He could not", but that He did and does return to His body, which He gave to the church. Yes, meaning, He walks among us--in us, as He said, "I am with you even until the end of the age."

Is 40 days biblically not the sign or indication of a lifetime? Do you think that was a coincidence? It was not. But of course we can be "physically killed"--"the wages of sin is death" to the flesh. Thus, what Jesus did for 40 days was rather as sign--which He qualified the terms of, saying, "So the last will be first, and the first last."

It is only the dust, only the natural that returns to the dust and is thrown into the pit.

 

[Always Believing]

I am saying that what was true of Paul who said, "for me, to live is Christ" is true of all who are born again of the spirit of God,

True. It's no longer our moral life we try to live but His righteousness and godliness we do by faith and His Spirit and the power of resurrection within us.

to whom Christ gave His body, to be His body.

His spiritual body is not His resurrected flesh and bones. The bread of communion is not His immortal flesh and bones, neither is the wine literally His blood. The Catholics have that wrong.

Yes, meaning, He walks among us--in us, as He said, "I am with you even until the end of the age."Is 40 days biblically not the sign or indication of a lifetime? Do you think that was a coincidence? It was not.

I can certainly agree with the idea that Jesus can indeed still be walking on earth at times with His resurrected immortal flesh and bones, and can even appear to anyone he wants and either let them know it or not. The Bible does say we are to be hospitable because we could be unknowingly entertaining angels. So why not the Lord Himself.

The danger with believing that, and I see no reason not to, antichrists try to act like he is Him in the flesh, especially the last great one that will be entered into by Satan and given great powers to deceive with a mouth and lying wonders as signs of proof and bonavides.

That is why brother I seriously suggest you reconsider this road you are going down of thinking you are as Christ coming in the flesh with His immortal flesh and bones, nor even one of His ribs. As the man says once we go down a road far enough, there is no turning back.

We are only as His disciples still with mortal flesh and blood, and having Him by His spirit dwelling in us does not mean we have any of His resurrected flesh and bones. We are of His flesh and bones spiritually but not yet His resurrected flesh and bones. Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

But of course we can be "physically killed"--"the wages of sin is death" to the flesh. Thus, what Jesus did for 40 days was rather as sign--which He qualified the terms of, saying, "So the last will be first, and the first last."

It is only the dust, only the natural that returns to the dust and is thrown into the pit.

The death of sin is the soul and spirit not the mortal body. I no longer buy the Christian traditional error that Jesus Christ creates souls or bodies with sin. That's mostly used by the world and some Christians to blame ungodly behavior on the body. And along with that if we really believe we already have our resurrected flesh and bones in hand, then we wouldn't fear the Lord enough to abstain from ungodliness, since we've already arrived. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

While I don't go all the way down the road with you, I do appreciate your insight of the man Christ Jesus still can be walking on earth in His immortal flesh as He did in the Bible just after His resurrection from the dead. We could be entertaining not just angels but also the Lord Himself. Like the two disciples walking to Emmaus we could be walking and talking with Him as a stranger and not even know it. That's a pretty serious teaching that ought warn us how we treat strangers.

But He will not come out in the open declaring Himself Christ again on earth, before coming with clouds through the air bright as lightning. The last of the antichrists will be showing himself to be God and Christ come again on earth with resurrected flesh and bones for all to see and worship, just as if he was physically dead and did live again. I think he will literally be a dead man brought back to life in his mortal body just for the purpose of being a near-perfect instrument of the devil to try and deceive those who can be deceived by supernatural goofball charlatans. I think Korah is a good pick.

 

[ScottA]

His spiritual body is not His resurrected flesh and bones. The bread of communion is not His immortal flesh and bones, neither is the wine literally His blood. The Catholics have that wrong.

Indeed, the bread of communion is merely a token or parable example of His body broken for us, taken as a reminder for us and a sign for those who are just coming into the fold. Likewise the wine.

I can certainly agree with the idea that Jesus can indeed still be walking on earth at times with His resurrected immortal flesh and bones, and can even appear to anyone he wants and either let them know it or not. The Bible does say we are to be hospitable because we could be unknowingly entertaining angels. So why not the Lord Himself.

The danger with believing that, and I see no reason not to, antichrists try to act like he is Him in the flesh, especially the last great one that will be entered into by Satan and given great powers to deceive with a mouth and lying wonders as signs of proof and bonavides.

That is why brother I seriously suggest you reconsider this road you are going down of thinking you are as Christ coming in the flesh with His immortal flesh and bones, nor even one of His ribs. As the man says once we go down a road far enough, there is no turning back.

We are only as His disciples still with mortal flesh and blood, and having Him by His spirit dwelling in us does not mean we have any of His resurrected flesh and bones. We are of His flesh and bones spiritually but not yet His resurrected flesh and bones. Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You have apparently misunderstood my meaning--sorry if I did not convey it well.

I absolutely, positively do not think of myself as "Christ coming in the flesh with His immortal flesh and bones." Not at all. No need to be concerned about me. What I meant was just what Christ meant, saying "take, eat, this is my body" and the additional scriptural references indicating that the church is His body. That we are not "His immortal flesh", but rather His body of mortal flesh until we too die as sharing in the same crucifixion.

As such, however, if we "were" crucified with Him (as is written), we too died in the flesh and are risen from the dead, confirmed by His saying, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." Which is also what is meant and is confirmed by Paul, saying "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me." These are the things that are written, which are either literally believed or not believed, or watered down in more palatable human terms of half-truth. As for me, I do not believe, but know them to be true.

The death of sin is the soul and spirit not the mortal body. I no longer buy the Christian traditional error that Jesus Christ creates souls or bodies with sin. That's mostly used by the world and some Christians to blame ungodly behavior on the body. And along with that if we really believe we already have our resurrected flesh and bones in hand, then we wouldn't fear the Lord enough to abstain from ungodliness, since we've already arrived. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

While I don't go all the way down the road with you, I do appreciate your insight of the man Christ Jesus still can be walking on earth in His immortal flesh as He did in the Bible just after His resurrection from the dead. We could be entertaining not just angels but also the Lord Himself. Like the two disciples walking to Emmaus we could be walking and talking with Him as a stranger and not even know it. That's a pretty serious teaching that ought warn us how we treat strangers.

But He will not come out in the open declaring Himself Christ again on earth, before coming with clouds through the air bright as lightning. The last of the antichrists will be showing himself to be God and Christ come again on earth with resurrected flesh and bones for all to see and worship, just as if he was physically dead and did live again. I think he will literally be a dead man brought back to life in his mortal body just for the purpose of being a near-perfect instrument of the devil to try and deceive those who can be deceived by supernatural goofball charlatans. I think Korah is a good pick.

I suppose that is more misunderstanding and miscommunication... Again, not "His immortal flesh"...as there is no such thing. What is immortal is not flesh, but spirit, as it is written: "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

As for what nature we now exist and walk in, it is much like Christ who told Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father." But then told Thomas, "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”-- In which there is no contradiction, but a revelation on two levels: 1) As if to say "Don't cling to My flesh"; and 2) As if to say, "See" I have conquered death and risen from the dead--but this is not the end of what is to occur, for "I have not yet ascended to My Father." Which is to say, (as you said) death was of the spirit--therefore, though He (and we with Him) have died in the flesh with Him, we shall live also until we too ascend to the Father.

This was the revelation of what and how we "follow" in like manner. And yet the confusing part, is Him seemingly passing through walls behind locked doors, and appearing at will whenever and wherever. The answer of which, is that just as there were also others that also rose from the grave during that same time--each of these accounts were enactments for revelation. In which case, we have to accredit Jesus (and not ourselves) with being both man and God. And it is this rather that Paul spoke of as "not yet having attained." Why? Not because it is not true that we "were" crucified with Him, or that we can not truthfully say "for me, to live is Christ." But because Jesus also revealed that having done so, we still need to walk out our remaining life in the flesh (before attaining all)...and yes, even now walk through walls and appear wherever and whenever as He did--not by our will, but His; but not the walls that He walked through, but rather as He said, "greater works than these"...which are not in the world, but in heaven. So, no, we will not part the sea, or move mountains of earth--but "greater works than these", for He has indeed gone to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit, by which we now live and work.

Nonetheless, we are prone to speak of things in and by the terms of this world, but that is not how we are to understand everything that is written, for those times have all but passed, and these are rather the times of the Holy Spirit and all truth.

 

[Always Believing]

I absolutely, positively do not think of myself as "Christ coming in the flesh with His immortal flesh and bones." Not at all. No need to be concerned about me. What I meant was just what Christ meant, saying "take, eat, this is my body" and the additional scriptural references indicating that the church is His body. That we are not "His immortal flesh", but rather His body of mortal flesh until we too die as sharing in the same crucifixion.

I see now, it's just the way you put things that seems to mix crucifying the old life of sin with physical death, so that being made alive again in Christ is being physically changed into the immortal body of His own resurrection. The only way our spiritual death and resurrection now meets with the physical is by the new manner of life we live in the flesh, not by now having or partaking of immortal flesh and bones.

As such, however, if we "were" crucified with Him (as is written), we too died in the flesh and are risen from the dead, confirmed by His saying, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." Which is also what is meant and is confirmed by Paul, saying "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me."

You must be speaking of being in the flesh, as being in the flesh sinfully, so that we die to living ungodly in the flesh. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. The thing is that the Bible talks of being in the flesh both as mortal men and as sinful men, so context is everything. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh. Being in the flesh mortally is just being born into the world and have no say over, but being in the flesh sinfully is living a sinful life in the world, which we do have a say in the matter.

So I believe it is misleading and inaccurate to say we have died in the flesh, because the Bible doesn't say it that way. That sounds too much like the ones saying the resurrection is past so that they died physically and live again with immortal flesh like Jesus on earth. It's a very real error because it also leads to more ungodliness. Afterall if we think we are now immortal physically as well as spiritually, then we are become as gods in our own right and power to do as we will without anymore possible condemnation and death. And there are Christians who teach the never again judged part.

These are the things that are written, which are either literally believed or not believed, or watered down in more palatable human terms of half-truth. As for me, I do not believe, but know them to be true.

It is literal that we must die to being and living in the flesh in ungodliness and unrighteousness. We are not yet doing it with resurrected immortal flesh.

I suppose that is more misunderstanding and miscommunication... Again, not "His immortal flesh"...as there is no such thing.

Yes there is. Jesus now has an immortal resurrected body of flesh and bones witnessed in the Bible. So will we when He returns to rule the nations with Him.

What is immortal is not flesh, but spirit, as it is written: "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Natural flesh is not immortal. Changed flesh to immortality is immortal. The Spirit of God now dwells in our souls with out spirit, but natural mortal bodies don't have spirit nor life of it's own. That is why our body dies when our spirit departs. The changed immortal flesh and bones will have the Spirit of life them, just as Jesus' resurrected body does.

As for what nature we now exist and walk in, it is much like Christ who told Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father." But then told Thomas, "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”-- In which there is no contradiction, but a revelation on two levels: 1) As if to say "Don't cling to My flesh"; and 2) As if to say, "See" I have conquered death and risen from the dead--but this is not the end of what is to occur, for "I have not yet ascended to My Father."

By partaking of the divine nature we now walk as He walked both before and after His death and resurrection, because He changes not. But we are not walking with His resurrected flesh and bones ourselves as he did from the tomb.

Which is to say, (as you said) death was of the spirit--therefore, though He (and we with Him) have died in the flesh with Him, we shall live also until we too ascend to the Father.

We do not ascend to the Father from the earth after the first resurrection but to the air to meet with our returned Lord. We are not now walking around as He did after His bodily resurrection just waiting to ascend to the Father as He did in sight of men. It's just how things are put that leads to confusion.

This was the revelation of what and how we "follow" in like manner. And yet the confusing part, is Him seemingly passing through walls behind locked doors, and appearing at will whenever and wherever. The answer of which, is that just as there were also others that also rose from the grave during that same time--each of these accounts were enactments for revelation. In which case, we have to accredit Jesus (and not ourselves) with being both man and God. And it is this rather that Paul spoke of as "not yet having attained." Why? Not because it is not true that we "were" crucified with Him, or that we can not truthfully say "for me, to live is Christ." But because Jesus also revealed that having done so, we still need to walk out our remaining life in the flesh (before attaining all)...

Yes, arriving and attaining is being made perfect in mind spirit and body at the resurrection of the dead and changing natural mortal flesh for immortal spiritual flesh. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. The hope of the church that is now purified, sanctified and blameless in spirit and in life with Christ, is to also be perfected spiritually and physically as He was in His own resurrection. We have obtained salvation and grace and divine nature within our souls. Not yet in our flesh and bones.

and yes, even now walk through walls and appear wherever and whenever as He did--not by our will, but His; but not the walls that He walked through, but rather as He said, "greater works than these"...which are not in the world, but in heaven. So, no, we will not part the sea, or move mountains of earth--but "greater works than these", for He has indeed gone to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit, by which we now live and work.

Well if your talking about great works of the Spirit dwelling within us so that we are as 'walking on water' or through walls metaphorically, then sure. And even if He does give us to walk on water as Peter or appear instantly elsewhere as with Phillip, then that is certainly possible to. But Jesus did so at His own will in His resurrected immortal flesh, and we can't yet. We will have the same power on earth after our own resurrection and change in His millennium. There will be no place on earth that His ruling saints cannot be at any given time to help those in need and to enforce the King's will.

Nonetheless, we are prone to speak of things in and by the terms of this world, but that is not how we are to understand everything that is written, for those times have all but passed, and these are rather the times of the Holy Spirit and all truth.

We can keep it plain and simple though as Paul says with great plain speaking. I believe we agree now so long as we aren't saying we are having or partaking of His immortality in our own flesh today. Not even in a rib. ;) That is to arrive and have attained our resurrected body of immortal flesh and bones like Jesus has. Do you agree?

This is what I now believe you teach which is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Our souls are raised up from the death of sins and tespasses. We have crucified our old life of sin. We have died to sinfully living in the flesh and do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. We remain blameless in spirit soul and body, but have not arrived at the resurrection of the dead with perfected spirit and immortal body.

We can be really aching for that physical change to come, but it hasn't yet for any man on earth, unless it's Jesus of course :), until He comes again to receive our resurrected and perfected minds and bodies to Himself. At this time neither our spiritual minds nor natural bodies are yet made perfect as He is now perfected.

The worst of all antichrists just before His return will be the most convincing of being Christ come again to earth with immortal flesh and bones. That's why I like the dead man living again theory. He will be raised from the dead like Lazarus to live again in natural mortal flesh, but unlike Lazarus he will give himself completely to Satan's use like Judas.

 

[ScottA]

You must be speaking of being in the flesh, as being in the flesh sinfully, so that we die to living ungodly in the flesh. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. The thing is that the Bible talks of being in the flesh both as mortal men and as sinful men, so context is everything. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh. Being in the flesh mortally is just being born into the world and have no say over, but being in the flesh sinfully is living a sinful life in the world, which we do have a say in the matter.

So I believe it is misleading and inaccurate to say we have died in the flesh, because the Bible doesn't say it that way. That sounds too much like the ones saying the resurrection is past so that they died physically and live again with immortal flesh like Jesus on earth. It's a very real error because it also leads to more ungodliness. Afterall if we think we are now immortal physically as well as spiritually, then we are become as gods in our own right and power to do as we will without anymore possible condemnation and death. And there are Christians who teach the never again judged part.

It is here:

1 Peter 3:18​

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.​

Again, the confusing part (which I explained as portrayed by the 40 days Jesus spent between His resurrection and His ascension), is that He has already taken "us to God"--also in His own time, rather than in our times...as Paul explained, saying, "but each one in his own order." Living after the fact, however, does not change what is true of our present status, though it is just being revealed to us ("each on in his own order"). Such are all the times of this world--all being rather "in Christ" even before the foundation of the world--before time. This is just the revelation of it.

Edited (typo ;) )

 

[ScottA]

It is literal that we must die to being and living in the flesh in ungodliness and unrighteousness. We are not yet doing it with resurrected immortal flesh.

There is no such thing as "resurrected immortal flesh."

What Jesus did was not proof of immortal flesh, but proof of His conquering death, and portraying these times in which we also walk in flesh from our resurrection with Him to our ascension of leaving this world. The difference which we cannot now claim, is that during His portray of us during these times--He was God, and we are not, but are men.

Thus, many things are portrayed in "likeness", only some of which can or should be referred to as exact.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, arriving and attaining is being made perfect in mind spirit and body at the resurrection of the dead and changing natural mortal flesh for immortal spiritual flesh. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. The hope of the church that is now purified, sanctified and blameless in spirit and in life with Christ, is to also be perfected spiritually and physically as He was in His own resurrection. We have obtained salvation and grace and divine nature within our souls. Not yet in our flesh and bones.

Again, there is no such thing as "spiritual flesh." There is the natural which is flesh, and the spirit which is not flesh: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit." To call it "spiritual flesh" is to mix what cannot be mixed, and will not be mixed, for actual flesh returns to the dust and is dissolved.

What is missing in that sort of misunderstanding, is that God, the angels and Christ, did not appear in actual flesh, but were instead manifest as such, only for the sake of revelation.

 

[ScottA]

We can keep it plain and simple though as Paul says with great plain speaking. I believe we agree now so long as we aren't saying we are having or partaking of His immortality in our own flesh today. Not even in a rib. ;) That is to arrive and have attained our resurrected body of immortal flesh and bones like Jesus has. Do you agree?

This is what I now believe you teach which is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Our souls are raised up from the death of sins and tespasses. We have crucified our old life of sin. We have died to sinfully living in the flesh and do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. We remain blameless in spirit soul and body, but have not arrived at the resurrection of the dead with perfected spirit and immortal body.

We can be really aching for that physical change to come, but it hasn't yet for any man on earth, unless it's Jesus of course :), until He comes again to receive our resurrected and perfected minds and bodies to Himself. At this time neither our spiritual minds nor natural bodies are yet made perfect as He is now perfected.

The worst of all antichrists just before His return will be the most convincing of being Christ come again to earth with immortal flesh and bones. That's why I like the dead man living again theory. He will be raised from the dead like Lazarus to live again in natural mortal flesh, but unlike Lazarus he will give himself completely to Satan's use like Judas.

Indeed we agree on much, with few exceptions which I have explained.

As for what I teach, it is indeed simple...but foreign to the thinking of men. I teach according to all truth as promised, which is from the perspective of God rather than that of men who look to times to explain everything. The times rather, are just the means by which God has revealed all things to all people, which He has not done except by means "created" just for that purpose. But the reality of God is not in the "image", but in Him. Therefore, I do not regard the times when discussing any point of revelation. This is simply what is meant by "rightly dividing the word of truth."

There is the revelation "image", and there is what is real with and in God that the "image" only depicts. Which cannot be mixed any more than what is born of water can be mixed with what is born of the spirit of God--but is rather born separate and "within" wherein no flesh can "follow." Therefore Jesus said, "Where I go you cannot come.”

Such is "all truth."

 

[Always Believing]

Again, the confusing part (which I explained as portrayed by the 40 days Jesus spent between His crucifixion and resurrection),

The confusing part here is your mistyping of 40 days between crucifixion and resurrection. You meant ascension right? He rose again 3 days after death correct? That's the gospel good news. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

 

[Adam]

Armageddon isn't going to be a physical conflict, but a spiritual one. The Devil's strategy is going to be the same as it was during Jesus' time. The pharisees were the most devout religious men, and they were the ones who killed Jesus. The Devil is going to trick people into thinking they're on the right side, when they're actually on the path to hell. The Devil won't be gathering any armies, in fact he wants you to think nothing is going on at all.

Luke 17
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

 

[Adam]

Or in other words, the Devil won't be drawing attention to the spiritual, ever. The devil wants to blind you to the spiritual, that is the lying wonder that was spoken of. Also, like with the Messiah's coming, people, even well-studied religious scholars, won't be able to understand the symbolism of the prophesies, they'll end up as the new pharisees, looking for one thing (in Jesus' case they were expecting the messiah to be a conquering warrior who would overthrow the Romans) and being blindsided by another (getting a pacifistic preacher who looked to them like a heretic). The Devil's strategy, if I had to guess, would be to turn you into the next generation of Pharisees and make you think God's witnesses are some new age cult, preaching some hogwashy hippy nonsense about having love and good vibes for everyone when you know that God is a hard ruler full of wrath and judgement.

The real nature of the war isn't a physical war, it is a war of ideology, and the central question is: can Man be redeemed? If Man can't be redeemed, the Devil wins. If Man can be redeemed, God wins. Jesus already won this war, the question is now, can the bride of Christ?

 

[friend of]

Jesus already won this war, the question is now, can the bride of Christ?

We are more than conquerors through Him. So the answer is yes.

 

[Always Believing]

It is here:

1 Peter 3:18​

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.​

Again, the confusing part (which I explained as portrayed by the 40 days Jesus spent between His resurrection and His ascension), is that He has already taken "us to God"--also in His own time, rather than in our times...as Paul explained, saying, "but each one in his own order." Living after the fact, however, does not change what is true of our present status, though it is just being revealed to us ("each on in his own order"). Such are all the times of this world--all being rather "in Christ" even before the foundation of the world--before time. This is just the revelation of it.

Edited (typo ;) )

You're small changes in the words enable you to go off from what the Bible means to something else. The Bible says He brings us to God while on earth. We are not taken to God in heaven. Reconciling us to God on earth spiritually is the gospel message on earth. Not taking us already to God in heaven. The heavenly places we now sit in is within His kingdom, which is now within our own hearts on earth. We will not sit in those thrones of heaven until we are bodily saved in the first resurrection. The Spirit of Christ is the heavenly place wherever He is, whether in heaven or on earth. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. The kingdom of God is now on earth within the purified hearts of His people and can be seen through our converted manner of life and the miracles of healings, etc...in the name of Jesus.

What you are saying is that there are Christians such as yourself who have been killed physically like Jesus on the cross and been 'taken to' God in heaven. I am not mocking here because you seem to be teaching it. Are you now as one of the elders sitting in the throneroom? Or are you now as one of the killed saints at the altar waiting for the rest of us to be killed likewise? Or are we supposed to also wake up and realize 'in our own time' like you, that we've been physically killed already and taken to God in heaven?

By saying you have been put to death in the flesh like Jesus, I believe you do one of two things. That Jesus did not really die physically on the cross but only spiritually, because you say you both have died the same death in the flesh, and yet you have only spiritually died and not really physically. Or you have died like Him physically and so have resurrected like Him and are taken to God with Him. Sort of like the man-child in Rev 11.

You also seem to be preaching Calvin prechosen and presaved in Christ before coming into the world. We are preknown by God's omniscience but not prechosen and saved as by fates decreed of God. We all must be saved to live with God forever, but no one must be saved because God fated him to it by name from the foundation of the world. He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world by prophecy if man sinned, but His book if life is not written from the foundation of the world. Wea re only written in His book when we do choose Him rather than the devil.