Revelation 16:14. Lucifer is one desperate rascal. Ezekiel chapter 28, God condemned Lucifer to ashes, lake of fire. Is Satan trying to AVERT his death sentence. Revelation 16:14. . Satan as antichrist will gather armys/people in armeggeden, at the end of the 6th trump. What purpose or strategy is Lucifer using against God?. Is this man of sin really going to wage war against Jesus at 7th trump?. Or is satan trying to break God's spirit?. Which fundamental applies logically?.
What is satan's strategy of Armeggeden?
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Davy
Well-Known Member
1. The following Ezekiel 38 passage isn't only about the Israel in the middle east. This is about a people dwelling safely "all of them dwelling without walls". Where would that be, since the nation of Israel in the middle east definitely does dwell with walls about them? There are 2 Israels per God's Word, in case you are not aware. The ten scattered tribes that are among the nations of Gentiles represent the "house of Israel" today.
2. This prophecy is about the day of God's Wrath involving "many countries".
Ps 110:5-6
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, He shall fill the places with the dead bodies; He shall wound the heads over many countries.
KJV
This attack on the last day will involve the western Christian nations also, not just Jerusalem.
Ezek 38:10-13
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, "Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?"
KJV
Tarshish refers to an old Phoenician trading settlement in ancient southern Spain. That means EUROPE. (see Ezekiel 27:12 for the type of goods brought from Tarshish, which are selective of European Iberia or Spain at the time.)
Ezek 39:6-7
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So will I make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let them pollute My holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
KJV
Jerusalem is not... in "the isles" where some "dwell carelessly", i.e., safely without walls.
Ezek 39:21-29
21 And I will set My glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see My judgment that I have executed, and My hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
After God split the old kingdom of Israel in Solomon's day into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11, only the northern "kingdom of Israel" of ten tribes were called the "house of Israel" after that historical point.
God is speaking about the ten lost tribe "house of Israel" that are still scattered among the Gentiles to this day. The Jews know who they are, and kept their heritage as part of Israel. But the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" did not, and were lost (but not to God, for this is the point when He is going to reveal the ten tribes to all... nations at the end of this world.)
The ten tribes of Israel are not known as Jews, for that title belonged to the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" in the southern holy land, at Jerusalem-Judea. However, there are Jews living in the western Christian nations also, probably more than are living in today's nation state of Israel in the middle east.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against Me, therefore hid I My face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
See the Book of Hosea. The ten northern tribes of Israel is who God is pointing to above with that "house of Israel". God showed through His prophet Hosea what He would do to them. And Apostle Paul would quote from Hosea about the believing Gentile Romans in Christ, which reveals where The Gospel went after Christ Jesus was rejected by the majority of Jews at Jerusalem.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid Hy face from them.
As shown in the Book of Hosea, God did not hide His face from Judah (Jews). The Jews of the "house of Judah" kept their heritage as part of Israel. But not the ten tribes. When God scattered the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", He said He would give them the full strength of their Baal worship they chose instead of Him, and they would not find their way back, and they would lose their heritage of His holy days, new moons, etc. That is what this hiding His face from them is about.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My holy name;
When Jacob is used to identify along with phrases like, "the whole house of Israel", that specifically means all... the 12 tribes of Israel, i.e., the Ezekiel 37 joining of the faithful remnant of the two sticks back to the holy land.
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against Me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
One should begin to see that this is especially about the scattered ten tribed "house of Israel" dwelling in the Christian west, where none of the nations have made them afraid, i.e., none came upon their un-walled lands (like Russia and China plan to do on the last day).
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, Which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide My face any more from them: for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV
Just the fact that these are gathered "out of their enemies' lands", and that God had hid His face from them, points especially to the ten lost tribes of the "house of Israel". Most of them to this day do not know who they actually are. But on this day when God does this, then they will know.
Thus Satan's army out of the northern quarters on the last day is ordained for this purpose that God says here, so that the nations will know and understand what He did with scattering lost Israel of the ten tribes, and how He is going to protect them, and gather them.
What will provoke Satan to come upon both Jerusalem (Jews) and the Christian West (ten lost tribes with Gentiles in The Gospel)?? Towards the end of the coming "great tribulation", some of Christ's elect are going to be delivered up to councils and synagogues (i.e, false churches), to give a Testimony for Jesus against the beast. They are told by Christ to not premeditate what they will say in that hour, but to speak whatever The Holy Spirit gives them to speak in that hour. That will be the 'real' cloven tongue event reserved for the 'end' that Apostle Peter pointed at the end of Joel 2, just prior to Christ's future return. The whole world... is going to hear God speak through His elect servants via that cloven tongue. That is going to make Satan terribly angry so that he will wish to destroy God's people once and for all, and will go with his armies out of the northern quarters (i.e., the nations of Ezekiel 38 led by Russia (Gog-Magog).
Armageddon is a near future event. The world has already seen the signs and wonders of the three foul evil spirits like frogs. At present the kings of the earth are being drawn into gathering at Armageddon to be judged by God for their actions of trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts over the past nearly 2,300 years. Isaiah 24:21-22 speaks of the judgement of the Heavenly hosts and the earthly kings.
This judgement will occur in around 20-25 years into our future.
Shalom
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Satans strategy has always been to twist the truth . Its why he preaches this all inclusive social false love gospel .
Which has taken many in its web of deceit .
Which has taken many in its web of deceit .
Always Believing
Active Member
Bail once the shooting begins. Sneak thieves are not brave.
I don't think he thinks he can break God's Spirit. But he does know he can break God's heart which is maybe why there's a moment of silence in heaven.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Most have considered Satan as always working since the beginning, but then seem to loose perspective when it says "a short time", thinking it means rather just the end of time.
| Such a perspective is not God's perspective, but man's. The whole matter with God is rather like the days of creation, a mere week (or only six days). |
So...who's talking, and who is it that you are listening to--God, or men?
The point is, all of time is the time of Satan's "short time." As such, Armageddon is better understood simply as "hill" or place of "crowds" or gathering. Which of course should not just be considered a time at the end of time, but rather a time including all who would be saved...since the beginning. Again, meaning all of time, rather than just a mere episode at the end of time.
Back then to the question of Satan's strategy: Sometimes it's easier to see things in contrast from the opposite perspective. In that case, Jesus' strategy is, "Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven." The opposite then is "anti-Christ" from beginning to end--that is: In heaven as on earth. Meaning many things. Men of flesh, thinking and believing according to the flesh and the times and terms "of this world" and taking up that perspective, rather than the perspective of God, whom is spirit, and in whom there is "no shadow of turning" (no time).
So...those of you who insist upon timelines and look for glorified flesh--are as far off as can be, doing the works of Satan. The advice of which is, "seek first the kingdom of God" and let Him add the things of this world to you "according to His purpose."
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Always Believing
Active Member
If you are suggesting that Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth at the beginning of creation, then we must all agree with that, since Jesus said he's already seen him cast out of heaven as lightning and I seriously doubt he got back up there again.
That fits with the theory of he being cast out between vs 1 and 2 of Genesis 1. As they say, God don't make no junk and he sure didn't create the heaven and earth in a confusing mass of deep darkness.
You mean Satan is still trying to effect heaven?
Shadow of turning to me is more of no deceit nor hidden things of darkness but all light and no darkness at all. There is always be time so long as there is creation of time in heaven and on earth.
Are you saying looking for His appearing and the New Jerusalem on a new earth is doing the works of Satan? Paul said we should comfort one another with the promised words of looking for the resurrection from the dead and our change with immortal bodies.
Yes, that's good advice for daily Christian living.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is Jesus' prayer that things be "on earth as they are in heaven" and Satan is anti-Christ, wanting and working for just the opposite.
The context of the passage is after the passing of this [old] world when there is "no more sea", etc.. As such, "no shadow of turning" refers to the fact that time has ended, and that the earth no longer revolves around the sun; and there is no more "lessor light to rule the night", meaning Satan, the prince of darkness.
No, but rather that during these times where Satan is the prince of this world, to give greater credence to the terms of time than to God's timeless eternity by looking at everything on a timeline, is to think as he thinks rather than to think as God thinks and look at things from His perspective where all things are "the same yesterday, today, and forever."
Of course being in the world we need to exist within it as it is. But not being of the world, we should not live according to the world and its ways, but according to God.
Always Believing
Active Member
That makes sense. He knows that God's heart can be broken by corrupting men made into His image with love, into a child of the devil made with murderous intent.
That's quite a mix of physical fact of the Bible and spiritual teaching of the Bible. Bravo. But, when the Bible speaks of there being no more time, it's not saying time does not exist, but means God is giving no more time for the same thing to be going on in His creation. Like that Jezebel false teacher that runs out of time to repent.
I know we are to have the mind of Christ and not have the heart of the devil. And stay that way. I see your point, but being timeless in faithfulness does not mean there is no time existing. It's not a big deal so we can just think of things differently. Now if the thinking leads to better or worse life in Christ today, then that becomes a serious issue. I just don't see how.
Absolutely.
So with the resurrection of the dead, I must have misunderstood you and I'll try again.
Are you saying that looking for the coming again of the Lord and our promised future resurrection from the dead is the work of Satan in our minds? I don't see how that's possible.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
There is no such word as "armeggeden". "Armageddon" is the last battle between good and evil before the Day of Judgment.
Nit picking over spelling? And then you go on to make a false claim as to when the judgement at Armageddon will occur. Now since the Day of judgement is a distant future event that occurs over 1,000-years into our future after the Bottomless pit is unlocked, the judgement at Armageddon is not the last battle that occurs in the observable history of mankind before the judgement. That war will be Satan going out over all of the earth to oppress God's Saints in what is recorded in Ezekiel 38-39, after the Bottomless pit is unlocked during the Little While period of time.
The start of the gathering of the kings of the earth at Armageddon has already started with the Sixth Bowl Judgement presently unfolding now. Isaiah 24:21-22 describes the time of judgement at Armageddon of the kings of the earth as well as the judgement of the heavenly hosts and together they will be imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.
This judgement will be because of the 2,300 years of God's Sanctuary being trampled and the trampling of God's earthly Hosts, that both the rebelling heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth partook in with the Little Horn, one of the rebelling heavenly hosts, being given earthly armies to trample both God's sanctuary and earthly hosts.
From my study of the scripture and man's history, this will occur in around 20-25 years into our near future.
Sadly, few have the eyes to see or the ears to hear and understand these prophetic words contained in the scriptures and so are lost in their conjectures of what might be in our future.
The time has come for all of mankind to repent for their sins. Even the believing righteous people need to repent of their unbelief.
Shalom
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I know that thinking in terms of having no time is foreign to us while we are still most accustom to times, and days, etc., but the very idea of there being a "last day" should confirm the idea that time was created and only exists from "the beginning and the end." Just as the world and we were created, so was time...and it is all passing away. Thus, the future and "everlasting life" is indeed without time. Just as it is with God who was not created, it is also true of all who are born of Him.
No, but assuming the terms of this world (including time), is to come under the rule of the ruler of this world. To the contrary, when we become no longer of this world, there should be a "renewing" of our mind, having come under the rule of Him who's "kingdom is not of this world." This is what is meant by the saying "old things have passed away, all things have become new." Thus, all who are born [again] of the spirit of God, though we remain yet for a short time in the flesh (just as Jesus did between His resurrection and His ascension) there is no end of days for those born of the Spirit, because even though we may die in the flesh, we "shall surely live" (forever).
Always Believing
Active Member
Well the last day must be this heaven and earth because God will create a new heaven and earth and the only difference will be without a sea, and though the sun and moonlight are not needed in New jerusalem, they will still be marking time.
You might want to rewrite this because it sounds like the promise of being as gods in our own right and so uncreated.
We are newly created sons of God but still created.
Sounds good to me.
Whoa friend you may want to rewrite that too. We are not the resurrected sons of God walking on the earth as Jesus was the resurrected Son of God walking with disciples for 40 days. Maybe you meant we now walk as He walked in His own flesh and blood days on earth until we die as He did.
When we die we then wait in the presence of the Lord until our bodies are resurrected and we are clothed with immortality on earth to rise into the air to meet Him. We live forever in Christ spiritually now and bodily then.
Always Believing
Active Member
So let's get back to maybe me misunderstanding your words before. Do you mean to say that waiting for the Lord's coming again and our bodies changing to immortality is a work of Satan in our minds?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The end is the end of time as well, as it is written there shall be "no shadow of turning" as during the first day to the sixth day--but not the seventh day for it is the rest of God.
The promise is the promise of Christ who prayed that we would be One, just as He and the Father are One.
But no, the creation of man does not mean mankind was "created" for everlasting, but created for the revealing of the man of sin, only during a time, times, and half a time, which passes away forever. To the contrary, it is in that "image" that it is revealed that just as Eve was taken out of the man and then returned to him as being one flesh, we too--if we are born of God's spirit, are taken out of God and become One again. That is the image, and that is the prayer.
Do you then refuse the bread which is His body, and will you not walk with those who have and do take and eat, who are His body? This may be the first time you have heard it plainly stated--but that is exactly what was depicted for revelation unto all truth. And no, Jesus did not die then die again after walking as one raised from the dead, but died and walked alive until He ascended to the Father--and we do likewise.
And just as He gave up His body to us, we also give up our bodies, that the flesh should return to the dust as it is written, and there be dissolved with fervent heat and with fire.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
No...but only if we insist upon taking the elements of this world with us, that is--the flesh. For the flesh returns to the dust, and like Satan, is thrown into the pit.
Always Believing
Active Member
Being perfectly one in unity is not be the same person. The Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. No created man nor angel is ever God. The first sin was Lucifer thinking to make himself God and tempting man to do the same. It's idolatry from the heart of created angels and men. Men are created in God's image to become as God but not to become God. There is only one Creator. Men will always be creations of God, not Creators. There is only one Word of God and is God. Men will never become their own Words in their own right with their own power to make anything by their own Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
No man will never has his own Light to be the light and life of others.
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Always Believing
Active Member
I don't know any verse that says anything is taken out of God. Jesus Christ came from God not taken out of God. Taken out of God sounds like a blood transfusion and put into someone else. That just don't sound right. When we are born of God with God dwelling in us, nothing is taken out of God to live independently in us. That just sounds like becoming God or gods ourselves with something of our own that now belongs to us to have as we will. God can give and also take away. Our physical blood is ours alone but that is not the blood of Christ we drink. You're certainly not saying out physical blood and the spiritual blood of Christ are now intermingled? Some like JW's believe their blood is somehow like that and so forbid transfusions.
Always Believing
Active Member
Where is this Jesus dying again idea coming from? How is that somehow suggested by anyone? We die once physically but can die again spiritually by returning to our old life of sin. Are you saying we cannot die spiritually to God but are now as Jesus alive forevermore after his bodily resurrection and walking on earth?
What's missing from your statement that He died and walked alive is that He died and then rose again bodily from the dead and walked again with His resurrected immortal body. We are of His flesh and bone but our bodies are not His resurrected body walking on earth, if that's what you're trying to say.
We must now walk as He walked as a man before His death, burial, and resurrection. Surely you're not saying we are walking on earth as He walked after His resurrection? We can't appear and vanish at will.
He gave up His physical body for us on the cross, not to us. Are you saying He has given us His old physical body or He gives us now His resurrected body? He gives us His Spirit not His resurrected body.
It's the believers' dead bodies from the dust of the earth that are resurrected just like Jesus. That's what it is to be resurrected in the likeness of His resurrection. Our dead bodies are resurrected just like His resurrection from the tomb. You're not saying His dead body still exists to be dissolved?
Always Believing
Active Member
Believing the Bible that our dead bodies are resurrected from the dead is not insisting or even trying to take our flesh with us. That's funny. It is not the mindset of the devil to believe that. We are all looking and waiting for the Lord and our body's change to immortality. We have the eternal life of Jesus Christ spiritually within our mortal bodies, but we are not yet resurrected to it with our immortal bodies. You're not saying that are you?
The elements of this world is lust and corrupt living, not the flesh itself. The wicked take their lust for the flesh with them to hell, but not their flesh. We escape the lust and corruption of the world with our bodies. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We leave our old lives behind not our bodies. I've still got my same old body right with me. Not my same old life. The Bible says we now sit and have our conversation in heavenly places, but our bodies are still alive on earth and we still look for our Lord from heaven. For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. Our eternal resurrection with enteral salvation has not yet come.
We still have some enduring and living to do on earth otherwise our conversation will be in hell. And it won't be heavenly.
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