What is Sin?

[robert derrick]

Sin is not what man says sin is, but rather sin is what God says sin is in Scripture.

What sin is in Scripture: unrighteousness, ungodliness, transgression of the law of God, Trespassing His commandment, of the devil.

What men say sin is: Issues with the flesh. Natural Proclivities. Bad Habits. Having a bad day.

Those who downgrade sinning against God to occasional 'missteps', are those who continue to sin and trespass against God like the devil, and yet don't want to think of themselves as sinners of the devil and enemies with God:

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

 

[Jim B]

Sin is not what man says sin is, but rather sin is what God says sin is in Scripture.

What sin is in Scripture: unrighteousness, ungodliness, transgression of the law of God, Trespassing His commandment, of the devil.

What men say sin is: Issues with the flesh. Natural Proclivities. Bad Habits. Having a bad day.

Those who downgrade sinning against God to occasional 'missteps', are those who continue to sin and trespass against God like the devil, and yet don't want to think of themselves as sinners of the devil and enemies with God:

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

You are a man, so according to you, why should anyone accept what you say sin is?

 

[robert derrick]

You are a man, so according to you, why should anyone accept what you say sin is?

Exactly. Now you have it. No one should.

So only accept what sin is according to what God says sin is in Scripture:

All unrighteousness is sin.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

And so you see the difference between saying what sin is according to one's own mind, verses saying what sin is according to Scripture.

 

[robert derrick]

One preacher said: "It's the preacher's job to tell the people what sin is!"

No, it's not. It's the ministers calling to tell people what God says sin is.

Once we begin to believe what others say sin is, which God never said, then we begin to be obedient to men and not God:

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

The worst ministering of the devil is guilt-tripping the sheep, and becoming lords over God's heritage.

The licentious reduce sin to become something acceptable in the sight of the believers, while the proselytizers invent sin to become something commanded over the believers.

Who is the honest minister that has studied to be acceptable to god and man? One that quotes Scripture and only gives the childlike simplicity of it:

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

We should never cease to be as little children when coming to Jesus and His Word.

Complicated scholarship never proves anything, but is only the device of the crafty that are wise in their own eyes, but are foolish toward the gospel of the cross.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sin is not what man says sin is, but rather sin is what God says sin is in Scripture.

What sin is in Scripture: unrighteousness, ungodliness, transgression of the law of God, Trespassing His commandment, of the devil.

What men say sin is: Issues with the flesh. Natural Proclivities. Bad Habits. Having a bad day.

Those who downgrade sinning against God to occasional 'missteps', are those who continue to sin and trespass against God like the devil, and yet don't want to think of themselves as sinners of the devil and enemies with God:

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

Teh best definition I heard is from the epistle of James- anything done outside of faith is sin! Someone can do a godly thing on teh surface with wrong motives and to them it is sin.

 

[robert derrick]

Teh best definition I heard is from the epistle of James- anything done outside of faith is sin! Someone can do a godly thing on teh surface with wrong motives and to them it is sin.

True, them still with hearts of lust are still sinning and living by their own righteousness and good works, which are unjustified with God.

It is a sin to think to obey the 2nd great commandment outwardly, without keeping the 1st great commandment inwardly.

In the end, all hearts of lust practise self-righteousness, thinking they are saved with lust abiding in the heart and soul.

Only the pure in heart can call upon the Lord unto salvation, and shall see God as He is in the resurrection of the just.

So, whether it be licentious grace or self-righteous works of the law, they are both practised by those who have yet to purify their hearts by the faith of Jesus and become sons of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

If we only agree with the Gospel and do not obey it with a pure heart, we have yet to become sons of God by exercising His power to do so, and are still in our sins and trespasses, no matter how much righteousness and neighborly works we try to do.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
Here is the remaining match.

Them with the faith of Jesus in their hearts obey Him, and by His power purify their hearts.

If we remain with lust in an unclean heart, then we cannot possibly please God, which can only be by His faith working in purity of heart, soul, and mind.

The difference between hearing and agreeing only Christians, and Christian saints, is continued heart of lust, vs a purified heart for God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

True, them still with hearts of lust are still sinning and living by their own righteousness and good works, which are unjustified with God.

It is a sin to think to obey the 2nd great commandment outwardly, without keeping the 1st great commandment inwardly.

In the end, all hearts of lust practise self-righteousness, thinking they are saved with lust abiding in the heart and soul.

Only the pure in heart can call upon the Lord unto salvation, and shall see God as He is in the resurrection of the just.

So, whether it be licentious grace or self-righteous works of the law, they are both practised by those who have yet to purify their hearts by the faith of Jesus and become sons of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

If we only agree with the Gospel and do not obey it with a pure heart, we have yet to become sons of God by exercising His power to do so, and are still in our sins and trespasses, no matter how much righteousness and neighborly works we try to do.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
Here is the remaining match.

Them with the faith of Jesus in their hearts obey Him, and by His power purify their hearts.

If we remain with lust in an unclean heart, then we cannot possibly please God, which can only be by His faith working in purity of heart, soul, and mind.

The difference between hearing and agreeing only Christians, and Christian saints, is continued heart of lust, vs a purified heart for God.

Even those who are saved, and seek God can be deceived by our own lusts and do perfectly godly looking things in the wrong way with subtly wrong motives. God doesn't condemn, but instructs.

 

[robert derrick]

Even those who are saved, and seek God can be deceived by our own lusts and do perfectly godly looking things in the wrong way with subtly wrong motives. God doesn't condemn, but instructs.

can be deceived by our own lusts and do perfectly godly looking things in the wrong way with subtly wrong motives.

Pure hearts are not decieved by lust, because lust no more is in the pure of heart, and so cannot be drawn away of lust and enticed.

The 'wrong way' of serving God is by the subtlety of the serpent to think to do so with a heart still unclean by lust.

God doesn't condemn, but instructs.

So, the world of lust is not condemned by God? God condemns no one?

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

There is no coming to the Light before and apart from doing the truth, which is to obey Him and purify our heart from lust.

Them keeping their lust in heart never draw nigh and submit themselves to God, because they love the darkness of heart rather than the Light that is without any darkness at all.

God instructs the pure in heart. Hearts of lust are still condemned.

Until we purify our heart to obey the first great commandment to love God with a whole heart, we can never obey the second to love one another with a pure heart.

All works of righteousness with an unclean heart of lust are self-righteous good works man: those who only hear and agree with the gospel make themselves their own Christian religion of good neighborly sinners, not saints of pure religion from a pure heart.

When His faith is recieved in the heart to obey Him in purity of heart, then we are given power to become sons of God.

God is not the Father of sinners, nor of the unclean of heart and hands.

There are no sons of God with ongoing hearts of lust, no more than there are saints of God with ongoing sins and trespasses.

If one will begin to obey God in the heart to purify their heart of lust and cast down every imagination and thought for sins, then they too will know the power of God to become a son of God and saint in Christ Jesus.

They will cease to justify themselves and their heart of lust, because they will then know the truth of being free indeed of lust of the world, and thought for sins lodging in the mind.

But so long as any hearer refuses to believe that possible, because the blood of the Lamb and the power of God is not good enough for them to do so, then of course it will remain impossible for them to do so in this life.

 

[robert derrick]

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

All sin is lust of the world: so long as lust continues in the heart, so does the devil.

And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

So long as the hearer refuses to purify the heart of lust, then the hearer has never obeyed in the heart to open the door to Him that knocks.

Jesus has never been recieved by, nor entered into any heart of lust.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

Power to become a son of God is given only to them who hear and obey Him: until we begin to obey Him to purify our heart to receive Him, then we never obediently open the door unto Him, that he may enter in and sup with us without belial and the lust of the world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God doesn't condemn, but instructs.

So, the world of lust is not condemned by God? God condemns no one?

Keep things I write in the context I write them please! I was talking about believers if you had bothered to read my post.

 

[robert derrick]

Keep things I write in the context I write them please! I was talking about believers if you had bothered to read my post.

I read it all.

And the response applies to hearers that agree with God and think to serve Him outwardly, but do not obey Him in the heart.

If you had read my post, you would have seen that.

All hearts with lust of the world are still condemned by God, not being purified by His faith to be pure and holy in this world as He is.

No person claiming faith with an unclean heart of lust is keeping His first great commandment, and so cannot be doing the second with a pure heart.

So long as you refuse to purify your heart by His power to become His son in deed and in truth, you will continue to walk in darkness of sins and trespasses, while thinking to call upon Him out of an unclean heart, and do good with unclean hands.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Begin doing this honestly with the heart, and you too will see His power working within you to have a good heart that is all cleansed of lust.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

This is not only for some special elect prechosen and specially souls before the world ever began, but is simply but only for them that do it, and will accept nothing less than that promised full victory of being made free from the law of sin and death in the heart and mind, by obeying the law of the Spirit of life wholeheartedly in this present world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I read it all.

And the response applies to hearers that agree with God and think to serve Him outwardly, but do not obey Him in the heart.

If you had read my post, you would have seen that.

All hearts with lust of the world are still condemned by God, not being purified by His faith to be pure and holy in this world as He is.

No person claiming faith with an unclean heart of lust is keeping His first great commandment, and so cannot be doing the second with a pure heart.

So long as you refuse to purify your heart by His power to become His son in deed and in truth, you will continue to walk in darkness of sins and trespasses, while thinking to call upon Him out of an unclean heart, and do good with unclean hands.

If you are talking about sinless perfection- you are severely deceived! I worry you have never met the Savior because of your rank legalism.

 

[robert derrick]

If you are talking about sinless perfection- you are severely deceived! I worry you have never met the Savior because of your rank legalism.

If you are talking about sinless perfection.

I am not. I am simply speaking of having a pure heart free from lust of the world in this life, which we do by His power to obey the Scripture to purify our hearts and be pure and holy in the heart, even as He is.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Purifying ourselves begins in the heart: there is no purifying the outside to love our neighbors, without first purifying the inside to love God will all the heart.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

We do it by His faith with His power given us to do so. We do not wait to the end for God to do in our hearts, what He plainly commands us to do, that we may be His sons in deed and in truth in this present wicked generation.

 

[PinSeeker]

This purification is the work of the Spirit. It manifests itself in us in the form of the fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. When we are born again and saving faith is worked in us ~ which is itself a work of the Spirit ~ then begins the lifelong process of sanctification, in which we become progressively more mature in our faith and closer to perfection, completeness, and lacking in nothing ~ more like Christ. And one day will will be just like Him, glorified.

For now, though, to think we can at any time in this life somehow purify ourselves in the sight of God is absolute self-deception. But because we are in Christ, it is a Rock-solid future surety.

I started to say "Them that think they can..." but hey, it's 2022, not 1464, or even 1893.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[PinSeeker]

Keep things I write in the context I write them please! I was talking about believers if you had bothered to read my post.

I mean, that's Robert's modus operandus, Ronald. It's ridiculous, but it is what it is.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[robert derrick]

This purification is the work of the Spirit. It manifests itself in us in the form of the fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. When we are born again and saving faith is worked in us ~ which is itself a work of the Spirit ~ then begins the lifelong process of sanctification, in which we become progressively more mature in our faith and closer to perfection, completeness, and lacking in nothing ~ more like Christ. And one day will will be just like Him, glorified.

For now, though, to think we can at any time in this life somehow purify ourselves in the sight of God is absolute self-deception. But because we are in Christ, it is a Rock-solid future surety.

I started to say "Them that think they can..." but hey, it's 2022, not 1464, or even 1893.

Grace and peace to all.

For now, though, to think we can at any time in this life somehow purify ourselves in the sight of God is absolute self-deception.

What is sin? Sin is openly contradicting Scripture, and calling God a liar and unjust Judge for commanding His people to do today, what they cannot possibly do in this life.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.

There is no help for a heart that openly scoffs at Scripture in order to justify its continued lust.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

As the Scripture says in Heb 6, it is impossible for someone to repent and obey the Scripture, when they declare it is impossible to do so.

 

[PinSeeker]

What is sin?

Anything which falls short of the glory of God.

Sin is openly contradicting Scripture...

Sure. Well, not necessarily, if one doesn't know he/she is contradicting what God has said. But even so, whether knowingly or unknowingly, it is falling far short of the glory of God. So yes.

...and calling God a liar and unjust Judge...

Sure. But nobody here is doing that.

...for commanding His people to do today, what they cannot possibly do in this life.

This does not make God a liar or an unjust Judge in any sense, but merely renders man without excuse because of his exchanging the truth for a lie and pursuing his own dishonorable passions. They not only do these things but also give approval to those who practice them. Thus, they deserve to die, which is exactly what Paul says in Romans 1.

There is no help for a heart that openly scoffs at Scripture in order to justify its continued lust.

There are no scoffers here in this Forum. But there is help, actually, in the Person of the Holy Spirit.

As the Scripture says in Heb 6, it is impossible for someone to repent and obey the Scripture, when they declare it is impossible to do so.

Yeah, again, no one here is declaring it is impossible to do so, but only impossible in this life to perfectly do so, because we still possess the old sinful nature, we are not yet fully conformed to Christ. But we will be... ... because we have a new, Godly nature also, which is being made perfect.

But again, for now, to think we can at any time in this life somehow purify ourselves in the sight of God is absolute self-deception. Like John says so clearly in 1 John 1:8-10, if we ~ in Christ though we are ~ say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And he goes on to say that if at any point we say we have not sinned (which you, Robert, seem to be doing, over and over again), we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you are talking about sinless perfection.

I am not. I am simply speaking of having a pure heart free from lust of the world in this life, which we do by His power to obey the Scripture to purify our hearts and be pure and holy in the heart, even as He is.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Purifying ourselves begins in the heart: there is no purifying the outside to love our neighbors, without first purifying the inside to love God will all the heart.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

We do it by His faith with His power given us to do so. We do not wait to the end for God to do in our hearts, what He plainly commands us to do, that we may be His sons in deed and in truth in this present wicked generation.

Well God gives us this pure heart! But we still daily must contend with the old heart. It will always be there and we are called to learn to live in the new man which never lusts and deny the old man which always lusts. And when we fall back into teh old man- Thank god for His mercy and 1 John 1:9

It is not about purifying, but dying to self and living unto Jesus! We are not called to purify our old man, but to live in the new man which is already pure! It is not a matter of giving up, but taking on the new life freely given us.

 

[Taken]

What is Sin?

Sin was transgression of the Law.
What Law? Mosaic Law.
Law fulfilled.
Law not destroyed.
Consequence of Law transgression moot, if not under the Law.
Was subject to Mosaic Law? Continue in Mosaic Law? Obliged to Continue in ALL of the Mosaic Law.

Sin was and is Rebellion AGAINST God.


What is Rebellion AGAINST God?
# 1 Disbelief in God
# 2 Disbelief in the One God sent, Christ Messiah Lord Jesus
# 3 Advocation, Provocation, Preaching AGAINST believing in the Lord God.

Duet. 9:
[7] Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD.

Isa 59:
[13] In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
(Remember from the heart is how men speak to be heard by the Lord God.)

John 14:
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Taken]

Well God gives us this pure heart! But we still daily must contend with the old heart. It will always be there and we are called to learn to live in the new man which never lusts and deny the old man which always lusts. And when we fall back into teh old man- Thank god for His mercy and 1 John 1:9

It is not about purifying, but dying to self and living unto Jesus! We are not called to purify our old man, but to live in the new man which is already pure! It is not a matter of giving up, but taking on the new life freely given us.

Uh...no.
God circumcises the Heart of a CONVERTED man.
Done deal.
No we do not contend with the old heart....it IS cut off.
Done deal.
The old man, IS dead; forgiven, crucified, washed, covered, sanctified, prepared....to be raised in glory, body, soul, spirit.
Done Deal.

What God did NOT CHANGE is our Carnal Minds.
That is a mans burden to bare.
A Converted man has Gods Power within him, IN the mans new born again spirit, in his new heart, the tools (so to speak...Gods Power), for the man to MAKE HIS CARNAL MIND,
Subservient, ie. Yield to the thoughts of his Heart.

And the purpose? The benefit? The consequence to NOT follow Gods PRECEPTS?
(For men to make his carnal mind yield to his hearts thoughts?)
* The Purpose is for man to effect Gods PRECEPTS.
What are PRECEPTS?
Gods guidelines FOR Beneficial Behaviors between and among men.
* The Benefit is FOR men, friend or enemy, to be cordial, get along neighborly, despite differences.
* The Consequences for Not following Gods Precepts between and among men
IS Strife, Loathing, Warring, Cheating, Lying, Stealing, Slandering, Retaliation, Vengeance, etc.
Men Trespassing Against men.