What is the battle of Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8?

[ewq1938]

It appears you are unfamiliar with Pauls explanation and definition of 'God's Wrath' in Romans 1

I'm citing examples of how God explains his wrath and what he does to people. You keep avoiding that. The army in Rev 19 is very much killed by Christ as part of the wrath of God.


Exo 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Exo 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Exo 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
Exo 22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
Exo 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm citing examples of how God explains his wrath and what he does to people. You keep avoiding that. The army in Rev 19 is very much killed by Christ as part of the wrath of God.


Exo 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Exo 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Exo 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
Exo 22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
Exo 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

I'm not avoiding it at all, that is what you are doing. I know exactly where you are coming from. The thing is, you are so sure of your position you don't bother to check out Romans 1 or even make an enquiry. That being the case, it's not possible to have any constructive conversation on the matter.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not avoiding it at all, that is what you are doing. I know exactly where you are coming from. The thing is, you are so sure of your position you don't bother to check out Romans 1 or even make an enquiry. That being the case, it's not possible to have any constructive conversation on the matter.

How about you address the scriptures I posted (I posted them not just referred to them) and then I can comment on the unknown verse in Romans 1 you think is so important.

 

[quietthinker]

How about you address the scriptures I posted (I posted them not just referred to them) and then I can comment on the unknown verse in Romans 1 you think is so important.

I do address them, however not in the way you think they should be addressed. Why do I do this? because the assumed reference you use for understanding 'God's Wrath' is faulty....the which I am attempting to draw your attention to .....but it seems you are resistant to anything but your own narrative.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

lol, if you had bothered to study it you would know the word "are" is not even in the manuscripts. All the verse tells us is the devil will go to the same place the beast and FP did.

And if you bothered to study you would know that in the Greek it is in the present and the subject is two entities. so though are is not in the4 manuscript(implied in the Greek construct) it is supplied in the English to conform to the Greek construct.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Revelation 14:11 mentions that “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.” The thought is the same here in verse 10. The “smoke” (the memory of what happened to the beast and the false prophet) will rise up forever, as will the memory of the fate of Satan and the dragon civil power.

Where would we be without some onle like you correcting Gods inspiration so we could specifically know what He meant. Good thing you are so much smarter than god (All sarcasm intended).

If you could write that- God could have and would have done the same and not need some two bit editor to correct HIm and "decode" what you think He supposedly meant.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Since the expression “for ever and ever” signifies literal perpetuity, could this not mean that a true-to-life audiovisual representation or record of the humiliation, fate, and manner of destruction of these enemies of God will be preserved as a witness to all posterity (past, present, and future) lest in some one of the ages to come of eternity, the circumstances surrounding these events be lost to memory?

No, the grammar and construct does not allow for that. God is after all the one who created Grammar for us to communicate intelligently with each other.

No doubt all history has been filmed under divine supervision, including this scene, which will be a painful reminder of the practices of these evil systems. In other words, there will forever be a showing of the history of mankind—both the good and the evil—so that the memory of these systems, as well as the memory of Jesus’ death, what he endured, and how loyal he was to the Heavenly Father, will be perpetuated. These showings will not be seen constantly by every individual every moment in every place, but when all the different times and seasons of future inhabited planets throughout the universe are considered, the showings will be ceaseless. Sometime, somewhere, a showing will be going on. Hence the torment will be a painful visual memorial rather than nonending physical suffering actually being inflicted and endured throughout eternity

WAS IT FILMED IN PANAVISION OR DIGITALLY? THIS IS NONSENSICAL.

You are creating a hypothetical future to try to justify re writing the word of God.

 

[ewq1938]

And if you bothered to study you would know that in the Greek it is in the present and the subject is two entities. so though are is not in the4 manuscript(implied in the Greek construct) it is supplied in the English to conform to the Greek construct.

False. The only present tense verb is regarding the devil. The other two verbs are Aorist and Future, and both are associated with the devil as well. There is no verb associated with the beast and FP. You would know this if you bothered to look any of the information up.

 

[ewq1938]

I do address them, however not in the way you think they should be addressed.

Translation: I don't address them because I can't dispute what they say.

 

[quietthinker]

Translation: I don't address them because I can't dispute what they say.

ah ha, is this how you do it?.....your translation trumps what is actually being communicated.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 14:11 mentions that “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.” The thought is the same here in verse 10. The “smoke” (the memory of what happened to the beast and the false prophet) will rise up forever, as will the memory of the fate of Satan and the dragon civil power.

I think the smoke stems from the memory of the everlasting memory of the fire and brimstone involved in the total destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the people in it, and the imagery is employed again for all those who refuse to worship the beast and his/its image in the Revelation.

It's also seems obvious that the fire and brimstone is talking about the lake of fire in the Revelation, which is the 2nd death, which is where the beast and false prophet are going.

Verse 10 states, “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone [into Second Death, from which there can be no resurrection], where the beast and the false prophet are, and [they plural] shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Since the beast and the false prophet are symbols of false religious institutions, and not living entities, how can they be tormented?

The beast may be a man - the 8th king who rules for one hour with the 10 kings, who are the 7th kingdom (Revelation 17:11).

I'm not saying the beast IS a man, I'm saying the beast may be a man. I don't believe we should be deciding about one or the other, especially not at this stage.​

Since the expression “for ever and ever” signifies literal perpetuity, could this not mean that a true-to-life audiovisual representation or record of the humiliation, fate, and manner of destruction of these enemies of God will be preserved as a witness to all posterity (past, present, and future) lest in some one of the ages to come of eternity, the circumstances surrounding these events be lost to memory?

I don't see why such a representation would be needed, especially because the living memory contained in the symbols of fire and brimstone refers to Sodom and Gomorrah, which is not an audio-visual representation, but is however a visual one - one only needs to visit the Dead Sea to see it.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm citing examples of how God explains his wrath and what he does to people. You keep avoiding that. The army in Rev 19 is very much killed by Christ as part of the wrath of God.


Exo 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Exo 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Exo 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
Exo 22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
Exo 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

I agree. So much of scripture has to be ignored in order to come up with the belief that the sword that Jesus will smite the nations with, will be all "loving and peaceful".

2 Thessalonians 1
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay tribulation to those who trouble you,
7 and to give rest with us to you who are troubled, at the revealing of the Lord Jesus from Heaven with the angels of His power,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He shall come to be glorified in His saints and to be admired in all those who believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day.

Tribulation.. vengeance of God coming in flaming fire ..

Doesn't describe a peaceful and loving sword.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

False. The only present tense verb is regarding the devil. The other two verbs are Aorist and Future, and both are associated with the devil as well. There is no verb associated with the beast and FP. You would know this if you bothered to look any of the information up.

I neither have the time nor the space to go into Greek grammar with you here. but you can take it up with the scores of Greek linguistic experts who define the beast and false prophet as in the lake at present and not some past and incinerated.

 

[ewq1938]

I neither have the time nor the space to go into Greek grammar with you here. but you can take it up with the scores of Greek linguistic experts who define the beast and false prophet as in the lake at present and not some past and incinerated.

Nothing changes the fact that there is no verb associated with the FP or beast in that verse. Don't mention Greek Grammar when you previously claimed the verse says they "are" rather than "were" when there is no such word in the Greek manuscripts.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Nothing changes the fact that there is no verb associated with the FP or beast in that verse. Don't mention Greek Grammar when you previously claimed the verse says they "are" rather than "were" when there is no such word in the Greek manuscripts.

Well if you knew the difference in Greek versus English constructs, then you would know why all those believing Greek linguistic scholars all added are. But don't take my word for it. Go ask the professionals.

The vaat bulk of translations all add are (there are few exceptions). So with your meager training in the language you are willing to go against certified experts in translation who are also believers?

 

[Truth7t7]

What does appear to confrim the above is that Ezekiel 39:17-20 uses the exact same symbolism/metaphoric language when talking about the destruction of Gog's armies that Revelation 19:17-18 uses when talking about the destruction of the beast's armies.

Nevertheless IMO everything spoken of in Revelation 20:1-10 suggests something that follows the rise of the beast from the bottomless pit and his (the beast's) destruction in the lake of fire.

The battle of Ezekiel chapter 39 took place "Long Ago" and was fought with "Wooden Weapons" of warfare, Bows, Arrows, Shields, and Spears

Ezekiel 39:9-10KJV
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

 

[Hobie]

Revelation 14:11 mentions that “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.” The thought is the same here in verse 10. The “smoke” (the memory of what happened to the beast and the false prophet) will rise up forever, as will the memory of the fate of Satan and the dragon civil power.

Verse 10 states, “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone [into Second Death, from which there can be no resurrection], where the beast and the false prophet are, and [they plural] shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Since the beast and the false prophet are symbols of false religious institutions, and not living entities, how can they be tormented? Furthermore, “the dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence” (Psa. 115:17); and “the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing. . . . Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished” (Eccles. 9:5,6).

Since the expression “for ever and ever” signifies literal perpetuity, could this not mean that a true-to-life audiovisual representation or record of the humiliation, fate, and manner of destruction of these enemies of God will be preserved as a witness to all posterity (past, present, and future) lest in some one of the ages to come of eternity, the circumstances surrounding these events be lost to memory? No doubt all history has been filmed under divine supervision, including this scene, which will be a painful reminder of the practices of these evil systems. In other words, there will forever be a showing of the history of mankind—both the good and the evil—so that the memory of these systems, as well as the memory of Jesus’ death, what he endured, and how loyal he was to the Heavenly Father, will be perpetuated. These showings will not be seen constantly by every individual every moment in every place, but when all the different times and seasons of future inhabited planets throughout the universe are considered, the showings will be ceaseless. Sometime, somewhere, a showing will be going on. Hence the torment will be a painful visual memorial rather than nonending physical suffering actually being inflicted and endured throughout eternity

Yes, the same as Sodom and Gomorrah...

 

[Freedm]

Gog/magog is the very same battle as Armageddon

Revelation chapter 16, 19, 20, are parallel teachings of the very same gathering of the nation's and battle

There won't be a 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Do you see this battle as still future?

 

[Freedm]

No one believes Armageddon is "the end" because it isn't. Not even Amills think that.

It's the end of something, though isn't it? Not the end of humanity, but it brings something to an end, or better said, it is the culmination or promise of something fulfilled.

Ezekiel 5
Because of all your detestable idols, I will do to you what I have never done before and will never do again. 10 Therefore in your midst parents will eat their children, and children will eat their parents. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. 11 Therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because you have defiled my sanctuary with all your vile images and detestable practices, I myself will shave you; I will not look on you with pity or spare you. 12 A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword. 13 “Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be avenged.

It's the end of God's wrath against Jerusalem for her adultery.

 

[ewq1938]

It's the end of something, though isn't it? Not the end of humanity, but it brings something to an end, or better said, it is the culmination or promise of something fulfilled.

It's the end of one age and the start of another but the final end of anything comes after the Millennium, and after the GWTJ when heaven and Earth are destroyed and replaced by new versions. That age will have no end.

It's the end of God's wrath against Jerusalem for her adultery.

Seems God is wrathful about the whole world and it's relationship with the beast, not Jerusalem.