I don't see those listed as spiritual gifts in my bible.wisdom understanding counsel piety fear of the lord fortitude knowledge
And the fruits too
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I don't see those listed as spiritual gifts in my bible.wisdom understanding counsel piety fear of the lord fortitude knowledge
And the fruits too
Oh how wonderful, something on which we both agree.Finally got it right!
There are likely a lot of false things in various places labeled by some as being of God. If we do not know, the "yea or nay" of it, perhaps we should be hesitant about making an absolute proclamation.
Our friend @theefaith has proclaimed openly on this forum that the man known as Pope Francis is false and should not be the Pope. I on the other hand do not believe that anyone should be a Pope...
Peter's confession is the rock the church is built upon, "thou art the Christ the Son of the Living God". No Matter how many times you try to point this out to a Catholic they cannot see this, because this is so indoctrinated in their teachings.
I disagree!
I know what @theefaith believes. I Have had discussions with him before. One of which is we are all called to be a royal priesthood as we mature to elders of the faith, not just a select class of people (Nicolaitanism= To Rule over the Laity).
Jesus does have authority over his Church but keys has more than one meaning. There are the keys we use to open our doors, there are key words too and key people. But I like to think of the keys of the Kingdom as the keys we use to understand a map or diagram.Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22
I don't see those listed as spiritual gifts in my bible.
Jesus does have authority over his Church but keys has more than one meaning. There are the keys we use to open our doors, there are key words too and key people. But I like to think of the keys of the Kingdom as the keys we use to understand a map or diagram.
In the UK at the Tower of London each night the soldiers perform the ceremony of the keys as the lock up for the night. Just an interesting fact.
The Ceremony of the Keys | Tower of London | Historic Royal Palaces (hrp.org.uk)
Who authorizes declarations?and I said I have my doubts, I never proclaimed it, I’m not authorized to make declarations
Who authorizes declarations?
Well, I did ask...! That is where your faith is, I would guess, for you have gone along with what men have decided before. You presume they all were being led by the Spirit of God in all of their declarations? Did the Spirit of God tell you that one on one? No need to answer further as I am seeing where this is going... but I was hopeful.the holy apostles with the authority of Christ
examples;
Decrees of official authorized counsels
such as
Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.
If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)
Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope BI. Pius IX - 1854
“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”
APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION OF POPE PIUS XII
MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS
DEFINING THE DOGMA OF THE ASSUMPTION
1950
“We pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.”
Not men but apostles having the authority of ChristWell, I did ask...! That is where your faith is, I would guess, for you have gone along with what men have decided before. You presume they all were being led by the Spirit of God in all of their declarations? Did the Spirit of God tell you that one on one? No need to answer further as I am seeing where this is going... but I was hopeful.
As I already said, I was hopeful... You have offered nothing that would change where I am.Not men but apostles having the authority of Christ
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!
As I already said, I was hopeful... You have offered nothing that would change where I am.
"Where there is no vision the people perish..."
"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head" Matt 8:20Did Christ found a church? If so why?
"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head" Matt 8:20
Did Christ found a church? If so why?
Yes or no?
"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head" Matt 8:20