What is the High Calling in Christ?

[marks]

To be honest we must do the exact opposite. We must assume we are NOT living from the inner man but from the outer man. Then, it is possible to actually put off the outer man. So we tend to think backwards. Only as we repent from our present course can we turn to Christ with our hearts and be healed.

Perhaps you might read my posts more carefully for us to continue our discussion.

Let's for the sake of discussion affirm that we are speaking in terms of the inner man, and not coming to some false religious posturing.

I'm not saying that we should assume a spiritual maturity which we have yet to possess.

There is a big difference between progressing slowly in righteousness over a lifetime...and walking in holiness (the higher ground).

Yes there is. We can continue patiently in good works, in our trust in Jesus, and over the course of time reap what we have sown. And God can touch us in any manner He intends, to accomplish any work He desires. Personally it seems to me that God has as many ways of working with His children as He has children, and not all are treated the same, as not all are the same. I don't see that there are these two extremes, if you will, that either we are entirely trying to effect a better character from our own motivations, or else we are entirely under Spirit control by God's Own doing.

What do you understand about the Biblical teaching of the renewing of the mind. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind - what does that mean to you?

What I don't ever see is anyone that is able to make that distinction. Instead teachers of error propose a "process" of sanctification" since they have no idea about what it means to walk in the Spirit. And if the teachers are that blind...imagine the pew warmers.

"The ones being sanctified", present tense, this is process, happening presently.

This does not mean that God does not bring someone more quickly to a greater sanctification, even to the point that we have no consciousness of sin, even in a moment. I know because He did that with me. For a time. And in human character, I'm a mess.

I've recently heard a quote . . . "the closer you come to holiness, the further from it you feel". What are your thoughts on that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Those of us who have been baptized INTO Christ...well that is very rare indeed in our time

The question becomes, how does it happen that we are baptized into Christ?

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Precious friends, may be helpful?:



GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

 

[Episkopos]

I've recently heard a quote . . . "the closer you come to holiness, the further from it you feel". What are your thoughts on that?

Much love!

Again that is righteousness...not holiness. The righteous don't know they're righteous....they only se what they lack.

The holy know that it isn't them walking in some lesser place...but the gift of grace that makes them walk as Jesus walked. No one is going to confuse that with a wasted human effort.

 

[Episkopos]

Precious friends, may be helpful?:

View attachment 26048

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

Such confusion. All of the things listed as holiness are in fact righteousness. No one grows into crucifixion nor holiness. We become automatic partakers of HIS holiness as we abide in Him. We can't half-abide or be half-crucified.

We LEARN righteousness...but we experience holiness as a gift of grace from above.

 

[marks]

We must assume we are NOT living from the inner man but from the outer man. Then, it is possible to actually put off the outer man. So we tend to think backwards. Only as we repent from our present course can we turn to Christ with our hearts and be healed.

If we are not exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, how can we say we are walking in the Spirit? Living out the inner man? If we are walking in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, period.

One way to see that in someone on a forum is that all the little personal jabs go away. None of these snippy little comments intended to diminish others. No corrupt speech.

I'd like to revisit the question, how does it come about that we walk in the Spirit?

Much love!

 

[marks]

but we experience holiness as a gift of grace from above.

2 Peter 1:3-4 KJV
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Such confusion. All of the things listed as holiness are in fact righteousness. No one grows into crucifixion nor holiness. We become automatic partakers of HIS holiness as we abide in Him. We can't half-abide or be half-crucified.

We LEARN righteousness...but we experience holiness as a gift of grace from above.

"The ones being sanctified", present tense, this is process, happening presently.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

If we are not exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, how can we say we are walking in the Spirit? Living out the inner man? If we are walking in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, period.

One way to see that in someone on a forum is that all the little personal jabs go away. None of these snippy little comments intended to diminish others. No corrupt speech.

I'd like to revisit the question, how does it come about that we walk in the Spirit?

Much love!

It is a gift from heaven once God receives and accepts our sacrifice. Think Abel or Enoch. The faith chapter (Heb. 11) mentions Enoch and how he pleased God...and was translated to be with Him. The same thing takes place (spiritually) when we walk in the Spirit...we are raptured (harpazo) to be with the Lord and fellowship with Him where He is. Although we retain our human faculties, we can focus on the kingdom realm as we experience the atmosphere of perfect love in Zion. To be there requires the outer man to be crucified. We can't fit through the narrow door (who is Christ) with our outer man intact.

So then we lose our life (temporal carnal) to gain our life (eternal life in the inner man).

 

[Episkopos]

"The ones being sanctified", present tense, this is process, happening presently.

Much love!

We are sanctified...or being sanctified ...as we walk in His perfect grace. So yes it is present tense for those who abide IN Christ. We partake of HIS holiness IN Him. In Him is no sin.

That's what I've been trying to get across. We are not made perfect in eternity...no...it is now. Just men made perfect IN Christ.

There is no process of holiness..it is a quantum leap into holiness as God translates the one with the suitable faith INTO Christ.

 

[marks]

It is a gift from heaven once God receives and accepts our sacrifice.

I'd like to see if I understand you correctly.

We reach the point where we have completely crucified our flesh, this being our sacrifice to God, and then God gives us this fullness of grace that we can walk in the Spirit, abiding in Christ? Is that the idea?

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's what I've been trying to get across. We are not made perfect in eternity...no...it is now. Just men made perfect IN Christ.

When do you see this being fulfilled in our lives?

1 Corinthians 15:53-54 KJV
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Perhaps you might read my posts more carefully for us to continue our discussion.

Let's for the sake of discussion affirm that we are speaking in terms of the inner man, and not coming to some false religious posturing.

I'm not saying that we should assume a spiritual maturity which we have yet to possess.



Yes there is. We can continue patiently in good works, in our trust in Jesus, and over the course of time reap what we have sown. And God can touch us in any manner He intends, to accomplish any work He desires. Personally it seems to me that God has as many ways of working with His children as He has children, and not all are treated the same, as not all are the same. I don't see that there are these two extremes, if you will, that either we are entirely trying to effect a better character from our own motivations, or else we are entirely under Spirit control by God's Own doing.

What do you understand about the Biblical teaching of the renewing of the mind. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind - what does that mean to you?



View attachment 26047
"The ones being sanctified", present tense, this is process, happening presently.

This does not mean that God does not bring someone more quickly to a greater sanctification, even to the point that we have no consciousness of sin, even in a moment. I know because He did that with me. For a time. And in human character, I'm a mess.

I've recently heard a quote . . . "the closer you come to holiness, the further from it you feel". What are your thoughts on that?

Much love!

Renewing of the mind...hmm. I don't think people understand that either. What it doesn't mean is becoming religious by putting on a Christian facade.

No, it's about the way the kingdom works. We can only renew our minds once we have experienced Zion or else listen to those who have. Everything we do is backwards or upside down to the ways of God.

Here is an example. Someone I know very recently was excited to tell me that he had left the institution to join a house church network. He began telling me of their strategy of multiplying churches. A multiplication principle is very prevalent among those who have yet to renew their minds.

I told him that the principle itself is carnal not spiritual.

We are to divide not multiply. Only God gives the increase. We are to decrease that we might increase. The world looks at success...but we look at failure. Jesus would seem to have failed as the Messiah. If this is about a worldly success then yes...it is a failure. But on the eternal scale it changed everything.

So how many live in the eternal perspective? Only those who have inverted their way of thinking to conform to God's ways in the kingdom.

 

[marks]

The faith chapter (Heb. 11) mentions Enoch and how he pleased God...and was translated to be with Him. The same thing takes place (spiritually) when we walk in the Spirit...we are raptured (harpazo) to be with the Lord and fellowship with Him where He is.

Isn't what happened with Enoch different from what you are talking about with us?

Genesis 5:23-24 KJV
23) And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24) And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Enoch's years ended on earth, God having taken him.

"And he was not, for God took him"

Hebrews 11:5 KJV
5) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

He did not see death. He was not found. Are you saying that we will not then physically die, and that no one will know where we are anymore?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

When do you see this being fulfilled in our lives?

1 Corinthians 15:53-54 KJV
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Much love!

Your question doesn't go with the verse you selected. Can you buy a house after you die? Why not? Can you develop character in the grave? or does our physical death end our time of training?

People will always confuse the verses about perfection NOW and the inheriting of eternal life with a new body in the next age.

One day the whole world will see who walked with Jesus....and these will be glorified with Him. The ones who claimed to know Him but didn't will be cast away into eternal darkness. The humble ones who were honest and humble (not smug like most believers today) will inherit life and the nations of them that are saved. The saints will rule and reign with Christ over them.

 

[Episkopos]

Isn't what happened with Enoch different from what you are talking about with us?

Genesis 5:23-24 KJV
23) And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24) And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Enoch's years ended on earth, God having taken him.

"And he was not, for God took him"

Hebrews 11:5 KJV
5) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

He did not see death. He was not found. Are you saying that we will not then physically die, and that no one will know where we are anymore?

Much love!

You are not looking at this in a spiritual way...so you will not understand the parallels between testaments. You should ask God for understanding.

 

[marks]

Your question doesn't go with the verse you selected.

Perhaps you don't understand what I'm asking?

When do we become incorruptible in your view?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are not looking at this in a spiritual way...so you will not understand the parallels between testaments. You should ask God for understanding.

"looking in a spiritual way" . . . I believe the Bible teaches God's truth, but we need to pay attention to what it says, and not what it doesn't say.

If some teaching is not actually presented in the Bible, it simply lacks Biblical authority.

Yes, let's each of us ask God for understanding, and for the humility to receive it.

What sets Enoch apart from all others who were considered righteous, God's friend, like that?

Thinking about Noah . . . Daniel . . . Job . . . Moses . . . Abraham . . . like that. David, a "man after God's Own heart". Should we consider that they did not in fact please God, since the "rule of Enoch" was not applied to them? They were not taken out of the world?

John 17:15 KJV
15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Noah is given as an example of our salvation, that as Noah was saved in the flood, so we are saved by baptism, not the washing of our flesh with water, but the inquiry of a good conscience toward God.

This typology is specifically given to us by God. The Bible teaches us the typology, and if the Bible does not teach something as a type, again, it would lack Biblical authority.

Hebrews 11:5-6 YLT
5) By faith Enoch was translated—not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to—that he had pleased God well,
6) and apart from faith it is impossible to please well, for it behoveth him who is coming to God to believe that He is, and to those seeking Him He becometh a rewarder.

Enoch's translation is given as an example of the reward of faith, and that translation was the end of Enoch's life on earth, not the beginning of his spiritual life on earth.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Shouldn't we acknowledge the truth of this passage, and by faith take hold of His promises, and live accordingly?

Much love!

 

[marks]

People will always confuse the verses about perfection NOW and the inheriting of eternal life with a new body in the next age.

Do you not believe we have eternal life now?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Renewing of the mind...hmm. I don't think people understand that either. What it doesn't mean is becoming religious by putting on a Christian facade.

No, it's about the way the kingdom works. We can only renew our minds once we have experienced Zion or else listen to those who have. Everything we do is backwards or upside down to the ways of God.

Romans 12:1-2 YLT
1) I call upon you, therefore, brethren, through the compassions of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice—living, sanctified, acceptable to God—your intelligent service;
2) and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what is the will of God—the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

Be transformed, here, is in the passive voice. This is being done to us.

The idea here is that we are being transformed by our minds being renewed, and this is happening so that we will show the proof of what is God's perfect will.

2 Corinthians 4:16 YLT
16) wherefore, we faint not, but if also our outward man doth decay, yet the inward is renewed day by day;

As sure as our outer man is decaying, the inner man is being renewed.

Ephesians 4:21-24 YLT
21) if so be ye did hear him, and in him were taught, as truth is in Jesus;
22) ye are to put off concerning the former behaviour the old man, that is corrupt according to the desires of the deceit,
23) and to be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24) and to put on the new man, which, according to God, was created in righteousness and kindness of the truth.

We are being renewed to the righteousness of God, and, in this translation, kindness of the truth, the beneficience of our conversion towards others.

Colossians 3:9-11 YLT
9) Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices,
10) and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him;
11) where there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, servant, freeman—but the all and in all—Christ.

Renewed in regard to knowledge, patterned after the image of Jesus.

Titus 3:5 YLT
5) (not by works that are in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit,

The Holy Spirit renews us.

Ephesians 4:13 YLT
13) till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,

We were fleshy, now we are in Christ. Our minds are being renewed as God teaches us about Jesus, because our new creation is patterned after Him. So learning Who He is teaches us about who we are. Living according to our new creation is the transformation wrought in the renewing of our minds.

Much love!