What is the High Calling in Christ?

[Episkopos]

I think what is needed is to show this in a Scriptural way. Your use of "Zion" is not how many people think of and speak of Zion.

I'm using the word Zion in a spiritual way....to show how Zion (replacing the natural Zion) is another term for the New Jerusalem (the spiritual version of natural Jerusalem) A simple study (and some spiritual discernment) makes this evident)

If you mean this as a description of living a spiritual life, you can show that. If you mean this as a description of interacting in the celestial realm, you can show that. Or to clarify what you mean by "walking in Zion", and show this in the Bible.

It is both. We live a spiritual life by interacting in the celestial kingdom realm. Walking in the Spirit is a kingdom walk, or a walk in resurrection life. To be where He is. There are too many references that all relate to one another. But it takes spiritual understanding to see the links.

Scripturally, if we are reborn, we are in Christ now. This is very plainly stated in the Bible, Romans 6 for one example. Do you disagree with that?

Much love!

We are given the initial grace to be regenerated corporately into the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is a corporate entity. To actually walk as Jesus walked requires the further step of entering PERSONALLY INTO Christ. So then those who seek to do wonders without having been admitted into the heavenly realm and a walk on that level and who defend their righteous standing because of an initial grace risk being shut out of the kingdom on judgment day...as in...go away I never KNEW you. (At least not in a PERSONAL way)

There is a divine Binaty (duality) to consider...a two step process of salvation. Those who neglect the second step are also neglecting so great a salvation as is found by abiding IN Christ.

How many believers do you know that walk as Jesus walked...without sin? And yet scripturally speaking, we are told to abide in Him and walk like He walked. We need the grace power to do this that is only found at the throne of grace. Do we live at the throne of grace or do we need to go there? That is something each believer must PERSONALLY wrestle with.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm interested in anyone's answer to these questions,

How does it happen that we are baptized into Christ?

How does it happen that we walk in the Spirit?

Much love!

We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit of God. A Spirit baptism. The water baptism is in Jesus name. That baptism brings us into the Body of Christ which is a corporate entity. From there we choose either to go to the throne of grace...or not.

Walking in the Spirit is based on a spiritual law. The law of life IN Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1) Laws govern all aspects of life. The law of flight overcomes the law of gravity. And that law has always existed in this creation. Laws have no favourites. You overcome one law by abiding in another law. So sitting in an aircraft causes you to overcome the law of gravity. So then the law of Christ allows us to overcome as He overcame. In Him is NO sin.

 

[Episkopos]

And this describes your life now?

Much love!

Not my life but kingdom life...the life that is found IN Christ. You have to lift your gaze higher to understand spiritual life.

 

[marks]

We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit of God. A Spirit baptism. The water baptism is in Jesus name. That baptism brings us into the Body of Christ which is a corporate entity. From there we choose either to go to the throne of grace...or not.

To make sure I understand rightly, your thinking here is that,

Water baptism makes us a part of the body of Christ but does not bring us into Christ Himself, is that the idea?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm using the word Zion in a spiritual way....to show how Zion (replacing the natural Zion) is another term for the New Jerusalem (the spiritual version of natural Jerusalem) A simple study (and some spiritual discernment) makes this evident)

To clarify, "walking in Zion" is the same as "walking in the New Jerusalem", which is to be the spiritual state of the believer in this world? Is this correct?

When you say, "a simple study (and some spiritual discernment"), is this to say that Biblical study by itself will not show this, but you will need to have a spiritual understanding that goes beyond the actual words of Scripture, am I understanding rightly?

I remember something a friend, who was very steeped in Hebraic Christianity, said about his study of the Hebrew texts. We had many discussions about what ideas that were popularly taught were actually valid from the Scriptures. Given the form of writing that Hebrew is, I think his best description was, "It's there if you see it, but, if you don't, it's not".

Have you realized, the first actual translation of the Bible was the addition of vowel points?

The reason I say all this is to say, "spiritual discernment" can be a very subjective thing, much like what my friend said, if your "discerment" shows this thing, what when someone else's "discerment" shows a different thing?

Anyway, I'm sorry, I hadn't meant to do more than ask a couple of clarifying questions, I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

You have to lift your gaze higher to understand spiritual life.

All the way up to heaven!!



Much love!

 

[marks]

We are given the initial grace to be regenerated corporately into the Body of Christ.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here, regenerated corporately into the body of Christ, but I cannot seem to get ahold of the concept of a "corporate salvation", or "corporate regeneration", or "corporate baptism", or anything like that. We are individually in the Body of Christ.

One body with many members.

Are we not?

Are we not in the Body of Christ because we personally have received Christ, being reborn by being personally baptized into Christ? Into His death?

Much love!

 

[marks]

We are given the initial grace to be regenerated corporately into the Body of Christ.

How would you define regeneration?

I would say,

When we trust in Christ, receiving Him as in John 1, God joins us spiritual to Jesus, and as Jesus died we also died (outside of time), and when Jesus rose, we also rose. Being joined to Jesus, we share what is His, so we share His death, and we share His resurrection.

The Adamic life we inherited from our ancestors is what died. What came alive is the resurrection life of Jesus Christ. We now share that resurrection life, and this is our regeneration. Our old (Adamic) life dead, and our new (spirit) life found in our unity with Christ.

Our old life was derived from the activity our bodies as put in place by God, with it's corrupted mind. Our new life is derived from our unity with Jesus, we are alive because He is alive, being joined to Him.

Regeneration provides a new life, with it's new way of life. The more we believe this is true, the more we will live accordingly. If we believe at times, but waver in that belief, our lives will reflect that. If our faith is constant, our lives will reflect that.

How would you describe regeneration?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

How would you define regeneration?

I would say,

When we trust in Christ, receiving Him as in John 1, God joins us spiritual to Jesus, and as Jesus died we also died (outside of time), and when Jesus rose, we also rose. Being joined to Jesus, we share what is His, so we share His death, and we share His resurrection.

The Adamic life we inherited from our ancestors is what died. What came alive is the resurrection life of Jesus Christ. We now share that resurrection life, and this is our regeneration. Our old (Adamic) life dead, and our new (spirit) life found in our unity with Christ.

Our old life was derived from the activity our bodies as put in place by God, with it's corrupted mind. Our new life is derived from our unity with Jesus, we are alive because He is alive, being joined to Him.

Regeneration provides a new life, with it's new way of life. The more we believe this is true, the more we will live accordingly. If we believe at times, but waver in that belief, our lives will reflect that. If our faith is constant, our lives will reflect that.

How would you describe regeneration?

Much love!

Regeneration is by way of an open channel to God...in order to be led by the Spirit...like the Israelites in the wilderness. Now entering into the Promised Land is another matter.

We are given the "earnest" (aravon) of the Spirit as a downpayment or sample of the full product. The root of aravon is aravah which means desert.

 

[marks]

Regeneration is by way of an open channel to God...in order to be led by the Spirit...like the Israelites in the wilderness. Now entering into the Promised Land is another matter.

I'm not sure how to understand your answer. The word itself is to generate again, so we say rebirth, to generate again, resulting in a new person who didn't exist before.

Ephesians 4:23-24 KJV
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I'm not sure how to understand your answer. The word itself is to generate again, so we say rebirth, to generate again, resulting in a new person who didn't exist before.

Ephesians 4:23-24 KJV
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Much love!

Putting on is after your heart has been changed. When you have begun renewing your mind you will see that you still need to put on the New Man as instructed by Paul. Otherwise you will have countless questions and reasons to remain exactly where you are...trusting that a sample of grace is enough to cover up a life that lacks the power to walk as Jesus walked.

Spiritual things require spiritual understanding.

 

[marks]

Putting on is after your heart has been changed.

And this is in regeneration?

I'm still not really understanding your answer.

trusting that a sample of grace is enough to cover up a life that lacks the power to walk as Jesus walked.

Perhaps you are answering what I'm not asking?

For me, regeneration is a new life, and renewing the mind is when you come to think that way, and actually live that new life. To put it simply.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

And this is in regeneration?

I'm still not really understanding your answer.


Perhaps you are answering what I'm not asking?

For me, regeneration is a new life, and renewing the mind is when you come to think that way, and actually live that new life. To put it simply.

Much love!

Being a true follower of the lamb . PS , lambs dont follow pope francis nor his all inclusive world religoin . Just a friendly reminder .
For lambs heed not the voice of strangers , they HEED THE SHEPARD CHRIST JESUS . Now hands up cause its LORD PRAISING TIME .

 

[David H.]

I'm interested in anyone's answer to these questions,

How does it happen that we are baptized into Christ?

How does it happen that we walk in the Spirit?

When we are Born again, we receive the "Earnest of the Spirit" Literally down payment... a down payment is never the full payment, but a partial payment. It is the second move of the Holy Spirit that we receive the fulness of the Spirit. This is exemplified by the Apostles receiving the Holy Spirit when they were "Born again" (John 20:22) vs. receiving the fulness of the Spirit in Acts 2. These are the two moves of the Spirit. Every Believer receives the first blessing of the earnest of the Spirit, Only those chosen (Election) receive the fulness of the Spirit which comes after a time of testing (The fiery trial) and a total surrender to the work of the Holy Ghost in us in the process of sanctification. The fulness of the Spirit is intricately tied to holiness, a desire to be a vessel Holy unto God..... It involves not only a transformed mind, but a transformed heart and motives. In other words you cannot serve God if you are seeking your own glory in doing so, the heart of the person who serves God must solely seek to glorify God. So for you to say a servant of God, Called and sent by God is trying to "self affirm themselves" is totally contrary to the call of God.

Most believers are content to live in the earnest of the Spirit never seeking the fulness thereof. When this becomes problematic is when those believers see this as all they need, they are truly living in the Laodicean mindset that we need nothing more. So When Peter says " He hath given us all things pertaining to Godliness" that is a fact, But we still have to add to our faith all the virtues he lists after that verse.... If faith is all we needed, he would not have said we need to add to our faith...

I Encourage you to pray about this, ask the Holy Spirit to teach you, be teachable, You might actually see something you and large segments of the church, particularly in the west have missed for years, because so many preachers associate holiness movements with works-based religions, which they are not. For Holiness is the work of the Holy Ghost in the believer.... We are His workmanship. (Ephesians 2:10) The High calling of God in Christ lies intricately tied to the second move of the Holy Spirit when we receive the fulness of the Spirit. I Have tried over and over again to explain this to you, but for the most part you resist this, which is the Laodicean mindset at work in you.... sorry, Don't know how to say it more pleasantly.... But that is what I mean by embracing the fact that we are all Laodiceans and then you can take the right steps to overcome this mindset....

 

[marks]

Most believers are content to live in the earnest of the Spirit never seeking the fulness thereof.

I find this kind of blanket generalization not meaningful. But if this is your experience with other Christians, I counsel you to seek a more mature circle of Christians.

That is, understanding your words to mean, "You are content to remain immature and never grow in the Spirit". I put it this way simply because it is foreign to me to speak of having "Part of Jesus" in you.

Philippians 3:14-16 KJV
14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Trusting in Jesus to make this so in you today,

Colossians 3:9-14 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14) And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

You still need to be able to incorporate this truth into your understanding of God and our relationship with Him,

Colossians 2:8-11 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Much love!

 

[marks]

These are the two moves of the Spirit.

Isn't this more a way to absolve ourselves when we see lack in ourselves? "I've not received my "second benefit", the Latter Rain, so how can I be expected to live holy?"

When in reality we are to apply ourselves all the time towards living the best we can, trusting in Jesus to make it so in us? Not waiting, giving ourselves a PASS on better living, instead, understanding, "right now I am to choose between spirit and flesh, and right now I have the ability to choose spirit"?

Why should we disregard God's promises? His great and precious promises?

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

I find this kind of blanket generalization not meaningful. But if this is your experience with other Christians, I counsel you to seek a more mature circle of Christians.

That is, understanding your words to mean, "You are content to remain immature and never grow in the Spirit". I put it this way simply because it is foreign to me to speak of having "Part of Jesus" in you.

Philippians 3:14-16 KJV
14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Trusting in Jesus to make this so in you today,

Colossians 3:9-14 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14) And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

You still need to be able to incorporate this truth into your understanding of God and our relationship with Him,

Colossians 2:8-11 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Much love!

I'm reminded of Hebrews5/6, speaking to those who were content to remain on the milk of the word and were not ready for strong meat, and the writer's admonition to leave the foundational things and go on to perfection (which I equate to holiness).

I wonder if what Episkopos and David H. are talking about is the extra oil that the five wise virgins had? The unwise only had their initial oil and it was running out in the end. Also we have the whole story of the Israelites in the wilderness, which is our ensample. There were two bodies of water to cross and there were two outpourings of water from the Rock, as well as the Israelites being circumcised "a second time".

 

[marks]

I'm reminded of Hebrews5/6, speaking to those who were content to remain on the milk of the word and were not ready for strong meat, and the writer's admonition to leave the foundational things and go on to perfection (which I equate to holiness).

I wonder if what Episkopos and David H. are talking about is the extra oil that the five wise virgins had? The unwise only had their initial oil and it was running out in the end. Also we have the whole story of the Israelites in the wilderness, which is our ensample. There were two bodies of water to cross and there were two outpourings of water from the Rock, as well as the Israelites being circumcised "a second time".

Of course, Israel needed water every day, from the Rock that followed them through the wilderness. They were baptized into the sea, into Moses, but not into the Jordan.

They needed water every day. Speak to the Rock . . . why speak? Give us this day . . .?

Had they believed, they would have crossed the Red Sea, been baptized into the sea, and then gone on to take Canaan from the south. Interesting, isn't it? Instead, they did not believe, and wasted their lives as a second chance would never come.

They would not believe God's gift to them. They did not believe God's commands, or there would have been none to circumcise. Is the lesson here that if you refuse to believe, and if you refuse to obey, don't think that you won't face it again?

There are many lessons we can learn. The more we stay with identified types, the more we stay with deriving our doctrines first from the teaching passages, then going into narrative passages as we see the illustrations of the teaching passages, the more we will understand God's true Way.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

So then, what is it that we lack, except for believing this is true? Except the practice of living according to it's truth? That our minds be renewed, that our lives be transformed?

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Philippians 3:12-15 ( cxt )
Not as though I had ALREADY ATTAINED, either were already perfect: but I FOLLOW AFTER, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethern, I count not myself to have apprehended: but THIS ONE THING I DO, FORGETTING those things which are behind, and REACHING forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.


The Word of God is beautiful in its simplicity. Paul is telling us that even though he has spread the word far, has governed new churches in Christ, and has been about God's business in teaching growth and discipline, that he has not reached the perfection in Christ Jesus as yet.

This however is before him, his number one goal, reaching always forward to it, leaving all the past far behind as dust. His mind and hearts eye is set and nothing will cause a turning away from.

He presses, using all his might,and passion, and a deep burning desire to have nothing less than the mark, the goal of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. To be God's child, accepted as joint-heir with Jesus, pleasing the Father as a servant doing his will is Paul's onward vision, and that is all he sees !

 

[marks]

I'm reminded of Hebrews5/6, speaking to those who were content to remain on the milk of the word and were not ready for strong meat, and the writer's admonition to leave the foundational things and go on to perfection (which I equate to holiness).

Whether teleiotes should be understood there as "holiness", it's more completness, maturity, consumate, like that, but in the context I don't have an issue with thinking in terms of holiness, certainly the mature Christian should be holy.

Hebrews 5:12-6:1 KJV
12) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13) For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14) But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
1) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Those who do not "work out" what God is "working in" will not be having much in the way of meat, I should say! We are to learn both good and evil by putting into practice in our lives what we learn from the Bible, that is if we are to mature.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We need the grace power to do this that is only found at the throne of grace. Do we live at the throne of grace or do we need to go there? That is something each believer must PERSONALLY wrestle with.

I recommend not leaving once you've come.

Romans 6:11-14 KJV
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

What better place to submit yourself then at God's throne of grace?

Much love!