What is the Law and the Prophets? And...

[thelord's_pearl]

.. does God mean that you have to follow everything that's in the bible for example, the instruction on wisdom for protection in Proverbs and all instructions in any form that just because it doesn't say it's a commandment that Jesus is talking about all these instructions on how you should live and what you should do, they're all commandments that the scripture below is referring to and in order to get to heaven? I know we're not to follow sacrifice of animals anymore or priests or, I don't think feasts in the OT since the focus in on Jesus now in the NT, but I'm not talking about communion which is talked about in the NT and I know it's wise to follow everything in the bible like what it instructs in Proverbs and to take care of our body as it's the Holy Temple of God and I would want to follow that but is Jesus talking about every instruction as being these commandments in the scriptures below? Thank you lots.

Matthew 5:17-20
17'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Lambano]

The "Law and the Prophets" (Jesus might as well have included "The Writings" too) is basically a colloquial way of referring to the entire Old Testament, including the all the commandments, God correcting His people (ouch!), and prophesies of God restoring His people (and the whole world).

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Thank you @Lambano and @amadeus, @Nancy. I edited my 1st post with another question. Thank you.

 

[Lambano]

.. does God mean that you have to follow everything that's in the bible for example, the instruction on wisdom for protection in Proverbs and all instructions in any form that just because it doesn't say it's a commandment that Jesus is talking about all these instructions on how you should live and what you should do, they're all commandments that the scripture below is referring to and in order to get to heaven?

That begs the question: Is the whole purpose of life to "get to Heaven"? That might not be what the Kingdom of God is all about.

 

[Lambano]

Woooweee, there's a whole lot going there in the Sermon on the Mount.

Reformed theology and Dispensational theology have their takes on what Jesus is trying to tell us here, and how it fits in with what Paul will tell us later in Romans and Galatians. I don't want to get into that. I will say that Jesus is telling us He still wants us to do the right thing and treat each other right and to respect God properly, and the Bible does inform us on how to do that. Verse 19 does tell us that our position in God's Kingdom Come will depend on what we do in this life; we will be held accountable.

You mentioned animal sacrifice and the OT feast cycles and such. I once asked my pastor, "Well, which OT commandments do we REALLY need to keep?" She said, "Let love be your guide". What will make the God who loves you happy? What is best for your neighbor? And it ain't easy.

 

[amadeus]

That begs the question: Is the whole purpose of life to "get to Heaven"? That might not be what the Kingdom of God is all about.

Indeed, getting to heaven [wherever and/or whatever that is], may be a reward for us, but it certainly should not, I believe, be our primary goal.

Mt 22:36	Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mt 22:37	Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mt 22:38	This is the first and great commandment.
Mt 22:39	And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 22:40	On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

@thelord's_pearl Are those two commandments to be forgotten by people because they are now under what they call "grace"? Where else would the Holy Ghost lead us?

Ro 8:3	For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Ro 8:4	That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ro 8:5	For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

What is it the law could not do? What law might be fulfilled in us walking after the Spirit? The law seemingly then had a purpose, but without help who could obey it perfectly? Who could fulfill it alone?

Jesus opened the Way to Life [Veil split asunder] and then sent the means to Life to us [the Holy Ghost]. A new and better Way to accomplish what Peter said that the Jews were unable to do?

Ac 15:8	And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Ac 15:9	And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Ac 15:10	Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Ac 15:11	But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

My question wasn't answered. I did not mean that I don't want to follow everything EXCEPT the things I mentioned like: animal sacrifice and priesthood which is not what we do anymore because the focus is on Jesus in the NT now and, "feasts" too? I wasn't sure about feasts if we have to follow them so that wasn't answered.
It was like you guys were just implying that I wanted a short cut but that was not the purpose of my thread. It was just for knowledge and insight so I can tell other people about the right things and fully understand the scripture I posted in the first post, but it's ok, now that you know, everyone can make mistakes or have misunderstandings.
So what does God mean by the whole Matthew 5:17-20 as anyone who breaks "these commandments" and the beginning verses, does He mean you have to follow everything in the bible to get to heaven being great in the kingdom of heaven except the stuff I mentioned already as being "these commandments", including the wisdom in Proverbs. Sorry if all that writing wasn't very clear. I feel though that in order to love God will ALL your heart, soul and mind we're required to do all that He instructs, likes of us to do and strive for it and I also feel so much at peace with the wisdom and protection in Proverbs. Thank you lots.

 

[Lambano]

So what does God mean by the whole Matthew 5:17-20 as anyone who breaks "these commandments" and the beginning verses, does He mean you have to follow everything in the bible to get to heaven...

Let's do small pieces at a time, okay?

20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Pharisees and the rabbis (who I think get a bum rap in the New Testament) tried as best they could to obey all the commandments in the OT. If and when they failed, they offered the sacrifices prescribed by Torah to atone for sin. If you have to be even more righteous than that to enter the Kingdom of God, how is someone like me ever going to see the Kingdom? How do we become even more righteous than those who tried their darndest to obey all the commandments in the Old Testament?

 

[Lambano]

20 Because by the works of the Law no one will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

St. Paul taught that God would declare us "righteous" if we trust Jesus, not because of how well we kept the OT commandments. I guess if God Himself pronounces us righteous, that settles it. Paul also taught that we did not have to get circumcised, keep kosher, rest on Saturday, or celebrate the Jewish festivals as commanded by the Law and the Prophets. Does that make St. Paul the least in the Kingdom of God?

I suppose being least in the Kingdom of God is a heckuva lot better than being a bigshot outside the Kingdom.

19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Does that mean if we do keep the commandments, we get extra credit towards being declared great in the Kingdom of God? I don't know.

 

[Lambano]

17'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

What do you think Jesus meant by fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, or by accomplishing everything? Did He already do it? Or is it yet to come?

 

[Lambano]

So what does God mean by the whole Matthew 5:17-20...?

Sometimes I find Jesus really confusing. But one of my favorite Bible teachers always said, "If you don't sometimes find the God of the Bible really confusing, you're probably worshipping an idol."

 

[thelord's_pearl]

What do you think Jesus meant by fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, or by accomplishing everything? Did He already do it? Or is it yet to come?

I think He's talking about the future. He has not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. Not 'until' everything is accomplished.
Okay, does anyone know what the whole Matthew 5:17-20 fully mean? What's the "these commandments" referring to? everything in the bible? all His Words even though it doesn't say they're 'commandments'? Thanks for any help.

 

[Jim B]

I think He's talking about the future. He has not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. Not 'until' everything is accomplished.
Okay, does anyone know what the whole Matthew 5:17-20 fully mean? What's the "these commandments" referring to? everything in the bible? all His Words even though it doesn't say they're 'commandments'? Thanks for any help.

Jesus did fulfill everything concerning the Law and the Prophets, which is a genera; reference to the Old Covenant.

By His sacrifice we are under a completely new covenant. He satisfied all the requirement of the law and the prophets by His sacrifice. Those who believe in Him and what He accomplished receive the Holy Spirit and eternal life.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Jesus did fulfill everything concerning the Law and the Prophets, which is a genera; reference to the Old Covenant.

By His sacrifice we are under a completely new covenant. He satisfied all the requirement of the law and the prophets by His sacrifice. Those who believe in Him and what He accomplished receive the Holy Spirit and eternal life.

Thanks for trying to help but no, I don't think you got it right. I think He's speaking in the present in the NT.. I have not come to abolish the Law and Prophets but to fulfill them. Not 'until' (future, on Judgement Day?!) everything is accomplished. That's what I think it means in that part in my understanding.

Okay, does anyone know what the whole Matthew 5:17-20 fully mean? What's the "these commandments" referring to? everything in the bible? all His Words even though it doesn't say they're 'commandments'? Thanks for any help.

Anyone? Why is there so little replies in this thread. The weekend?

 

[Lambano]

Okay, does anyone know what the whole Matthew 5:17-20 fully mean? What's the "these commandments" referring to? everything in the bible? all His Words even though it doesn't say they're 'commandments'? Thanks for any help.

Anyone? Why is there so little replies in this thread. The weekend?

I could give you the standard Reformed interpretation: There are 613 commandments in the Old Testament, and yes, you need to obey every one of them or you ain't goin' to Heaven when you die. According to this theological framework, the purpose of Matthew 5:17-20 as a whole is to convince the sinner of the futility of trying to obey all those commandments perfectly, so they'll turn to God and beg for mercy. With nowhere else to turn, the sinner will gladly accept Christ's death as the atoning sacrifice for their sins.

 

[amadeus]

My question wasn't answered. I did not mean that I don't want to follow everything EXCEPT the things I mentioned like: animal sacrifice and priesthood which is not what we do anymore because the focus is on Jesus in the NT now and, "feasts" too? I wasn't sure about feasts if we have to follow them so that wasn't answered.

Ga 3:24	Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ga 3:25	But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

No longer under a schoolmaster who pointed out the black and white rules or attitudes to be followed by those living when their was no NT and when most people did not know about or were not led by the Holy Spirit.

But God has not changed. What offended Him then would offend Him now. Then they had the Aaronic priesthood and/or the prophets to help them understand the written law and to give them proper direction... to serve as Interpreters. Now for us to understand and receive direction, we have available a direct contact with God via the Holy Spirit. We also have all of the written Bible, which includes the OT. It does not apply to us as it did to them, because we have an Interpreter, the Holy Spirit.

1co 14:27	If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1co 14:28	But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Whether or not people accept the unknown tongue as a language not otherwise known to man, believers should be accepting the lead and/or direction of the Holy Spirit as their Interpreter... if they have an Interpreter.

It was like you guys were just implying that I wanted a short cut but that was not the purpose of my thread. It was just for knowledge and insight so I can tell other people about the right things and fully understand the scripture I posted in the first post, but it's ok, now that you know, everyone can make mistakes or have misunderstandings.

Sorry if I was misunderstood before or was unclear. The Holy Spirit is the important thing in both the OT for us [which is not always as it was for the people before Jesus and the direct availability of the Holy Spirit to whosoever will] and the NT as read it and hear it with our natural ears.

So what does God mean by the whole Matthew 5:17-20 as anyone who breaks "these commandments" and the beginning verses, does He mean you have to follow everything in the bible to get to heaven being great in the kingdom of heaven except the stuff I mentioned already as being "these commandments", including the wisdom in Proverbs.

Remember when Jesus lived as a man of flesh it was before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost [as per Acts chaper 2] He was teaching people who were living under the written laws as per the OT guidelines with priests and prophets.

But... Jesus was/is greater than them all. He was the Interpreter who did not fail to reach either the people who would not live in their flesh to have available the Holy Spirit... or those who would. Before Jesus came they had what was written as well as the priests and prophets. I am also one who loves the writings of Solomon for he was certainly also inspired by the Holy Spirit in what he wrote. A literal meaning of those writings may apply to you or to me, but we also have available the Holy Spirit to help us when we need help to understand precisely what God intends for each of us... even in reading those written words and applying them to ourselves.

Sorry if all that writing wasn't very clear. I feel though that in order to love God will ALL your heart, soul and mind we're required to do all that He instructs, likes of us to do and strive for it and I also feel so much at peace with the wisdom and protection in Proverbs. Thank you lots.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are now our schoolmaster and a better Interpreter than what was available to most people in the time prior to Jesus.

This means that God requires more from us than He did from them because He has given us more:

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[Bob Estey]

.. does God mean that you have to follow everything that's in the bible for example, the instruction on wisdom for protection in Proverbs and all instructions in any form that just because it doesn't say it's a commandment that Jesus is talking about all these instructions on how you should live and what you should do, they're all commandments that the scripture below is referring to and in order to get to heaven? I know we're not to follow sacrifice of animals anymore or priests or, I don't think feasts in the OT since the focus in on Jesus now in the NT, but I'm not talking about communion which is talked about in the NT and I know it's wise to follow everything in the bible like what it instructs in Proverbs and to take care of our body as it's the Holy Temple of God and I would want to follow that but is Jesus talking about every instruction as being these commandments in the scriptures below? Thank you lots.

Matthew 5:17-20
17'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I believe the law and prophets relates to the law found in the Old Testament and the books of the prophets.

 

[St. SteVen]

'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. - Matthew 5:17

Jesus explained himself in this post-resurrection scripture.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

 

[Hobie]

.. does God mean that you have to follow everything that's in the bible for example, the instruction on wisdom for protection in Proverbs and all instructions in any form that just because it doesn't say it's a commandment that Jesus is talking about all these instructions on how you should live and what you should do, they're all commandments that the scripture below is referring to and in order to get to heaven? I know we're not to follow sacrifice of animals anymore or priests or, I don't think feasts in the OT since the focus in on Jesus now in the NT, but I'm not talking about communion which is talked about in the NT and I know it's wise to follow everything in the bible like what it instructs in Proverbs and to take care of our body as it's the Holy Temple of God and I would want to follow that but is Jesus talking about every instruction as being these commandments in the scriptures below? Thank you lots.

Matthew 5:17-20
17'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Law is Gods standard and does not change, and if you truly love Christ and know Him, doing His will is not an issue.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Law is Gods standard and does not change, and if you truly love Christ and know Him, doing His will is not an issue.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com