What is the narrow gate?

[kjw47]

God wasn't beaten--he sent to all of us the only hope--his son--in every translation on earth- Jesus' truths are unaltered--truth could not be hidden if one learns Jesus' truths and applys them--then and only then one can see the entrance to the narrow gate.

I didn't say Abraham knew 100%--but he did know who and what the true God is.
I agree the ones who learn Jesus' truths and apply Jesus' truths know 100% for sure--Jesus has a God--his Father--just like we do--John 20:17, rev 3:12)

Do you believe God has a God( with another God over there as well)

 

[williemac]

God wasn't beaten--he sent to all of us the only hope--his son--in every translation on earth- Jesus' truths are unaltered--truth could not be hidden if one learns Jesus' truths and applys them--then and only then one can see the entrance to the narrow gate.

I didn't say Abraham knew 100%--but he did know who and what the true God is.
I agree the ones who learn Jesus' truths and apply Jesus' truths know 100% for sure--Jesus has a God--his Father--just like we do--John 20:17, rev 3:12)

Do you believe God has a God( with another God over there as well)

The "Jesus truth" that counts for salvation and the giving of the free gift of life is that He died for the sin of the world. And now He is inviting Himself in to re create and indwell all who will respond to His invitation. In the end, it will not be 'what we know', but rather 'Who we know'. The trinity argument is a diversion.

In John 17:3, the word "know" is the same one that was used in the passage where we read that Joseph did not "know" Mary until after the birth of Jesus. It is not intellectual knowledge, it is intimate personal contact and fellowship. This is eternal life. The NWT calls this " having knowledge", and implies what a person knows. The meaning of the passage has been altered by those who may well not actually be experiencing the alternative meaning, which is to know God the Father and His Son personally in relationship. One can only share what he has.
To whom it concerns: What do you have? I have Jesus. He is knocking on your door. Will you open it and receive Him in to sup with you? Or will you merely observe Him at a distance? Your choice.

 

[kjw47]

The "Jesus truth" that counts for salvation and the giving of the free gift of life is that He died for the sin of the world. And now He is inviting Himself in to re create and indwell all who will respond to His invitation. In the end, it will not be 'what we know', but rather 'Who we know'. The trinity argument is a diversion.

In John 17:3, the word "know" is the same one that was used in the passage where we read that Joseph did not "know" Mary until after the birth of Jesus. It is not intellectual knowledge, it is intimate personal contact and fellowship. This is eternal life. The NWT calls this " having knowledge", and implies what a person knows. The meaning of the passage has been altered by those who may well not actually be experiencing the alternative meaning, which is to know God the Father and His Son personally in relationship. One can only share what he has.
To whom it concerns: What do you have? I have Jesus. He is knocking on your door. Will you open it and receive Him in to sup with you? Or will you merely observe Him at a distance? Your choice.

Jesus came to dinner for all--he said--Keep on seeking first the kingdom and his(YHWH(Jehovah)= Father) righteousness and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)

The passage is not altered--one must know God in what you stated and know exactly who he is.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Jesus came to dinner for all--he said--Keep on seeking first the kingdom and his(YHWH(Jehovah)= Father) righteousness and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)

The passage is not altered--one must know God in what you stated and know exactly who he is.

The only way to find the righteousness of God is in receiving the righteousness that He has provided in the person of His Son, "The Lord our Righteousness". Scripture actually points to the God of the covenant (Yahavah) as being = Jesus (in His pre-incarnate deity.) Jesus might be called "the messenger of the covenant," but as such He also initiated it (having been the messenger.)
You've referenced other "Christian systems," such as Mormonism, but to the born again such systems are just other cults who have hidden themselves under the banner of "Christianity" without ever crossing over into the kingdom of God. There is only one way; to accept the righteousness of God in the person of His Son, and the price that He paid with His own blood for your sin (and mine). Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from your sin and He will by no means deny you.
"Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him." Psalms 2:12

 

[kjw47]

The only way to find the righteousness of God is in receiving the righteousness that He has provided in the person of His Son, "The Lord our Righteousness". Scripture actually points to the God of the covenant (Yahavah) as being = Jesus (in His pre-incarnate deity.) Jesus might be called "the messenger of the covenant," but as such He also initiated it (having been the messenger.)
You've referenced other "Christian systems," such as Mormonism, but to the born again such systems are just other cults who have hidden themselves under the banner of "Christianity" without ever crossing over into the kingdom of God. There is only one way; to accept the righteousness of God in the person of His Son, and the price that He paid with His own blood for your sin (and mine). Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from your sin and He will by no means deny you.
"Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him." Psalms 2:12

Could you elaborate that Jesus doesn't deny one that calls on him in light of this truth from Jesus--Matt 7:21-23--(this is judgement time)

Trust in the real Jesus not the fake one being taught by 32,999 religions.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Could you elaborate that Jesus doesn't deny one that calls on him in light of this truth from Jesus--Matt 7:21-23--(this is judgement time)

Trust in the real Jesus not the fake one being taught by 32,999 religions.

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus is referring to those who practiced religion as opposed to those who are born again of His Spirit, such as all those cults which pretend to be following Him, but make their authority something other than the scripture.
The very next verse in that chapter says, "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
The phrase "I never knew you" doesn't mean that Jesus had no knowledge of these people as He clearly knew what was in men's hearts, even when His glory was cloaked in human flesh, but the phrase is referring to an intimate knowledge through relationship, and this relationship is only accomplished by receiving His Spirit by faith and in submission to Him as LORD (this leads to doing that which is lawful and pleasing to God through repentance and the practice of our sanctification.)
For this reason we find in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.", again, speaking to the intimacy of personal relationship.
Religion is that which we do in our attempts to please God, but the scripture says that He is only pleased by our faith. This isn't to say that true religion has no value, but its value is not redemptive. Isaiah wrote, "But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; we all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
Isaiah was a Levitical priest and not some evil man by worldly standards, but he was given the gift of seeing himself as God sees us so that he might abandon any notion of his own righteousness and receive the righteousness of God which is by faith.

Now to get back to the original point and your question, Jesus also said, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.'' John 6:37-40
Jesus obviously wasn't referring to those who only saw Him with their own eyes as this would exclude everyone before His appearing as well as everyone after His ascension, but seeing Him also means seeing Him for who He is, and believing His testimony of the Father and His relationship to Him: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.''
Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.''
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, `Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. John 14:6-10

If you haven't understood this point, religion saves no one, Jesus does that, and He does this through relationship: You must be born again!

 

[kjw47]

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus is referring to those who practiced religion as opposed to those who are born again of His Spirit, such as all those cults which pretend to be following Him, but make their authority something other than the scripture.
The very next verse in that chapter says, "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
The phrase "I never knew you" doesn't mean that Jesus had no knowledge of these people as He clearly knew what was in men's hearts, even when His glory was cloaked in human flesh, but the phrase is referring to an intimate knowledge through relationship, and this relationship is only accomplished by receiving His Spirit by faith and in submission to Him as LORD (this leads to doing that which is lawful and pleasing to God through repentance and the practice of our sanctification.)
For this reason we find in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.", again, speaking to the intimacy of personal relationship.
Religion is that which we do in our attempts to please God, but the scripture says that He is only pleased by our faith. This isn't to say that true religion has no value, but its value is not redemptive. Isaiah wrote, "But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; we all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
Isaiah was a Levitical priest and not some evil man by worldly standards, but he was given the gift of seeing himself as God sees us so that he might abandon any notion of his own righteousness and receive the righteousness of God which is by faith.

Now to get back to the original point and your question, Jesus also said, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.'' John 6:37-40
Jesus obviously wasn't referring to those who only saw Him with their own eyes as this would exclude everyone before His appearing as well as everyone after His ascension, but seeing Him also means seeing Him for who He is, and believing His testimony of the Father and His relationship to Him: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.''
Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.''
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, `Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. John 14:6-10

If you haven't understood this point, religion saves no one, Jesus does that, and He does this through relationship: You must be born again!

You quoted a lot of nice scriptures-TY--- I see two points of view in Christianity, two different Jesus' being taught.--- One must be serving the true Jesus.

One side points all to Jesus---Jesus points all to the Father. The one Jesus calls--THE ONLY TRUE GOD at John 17:1-6--verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah) a single being God--The God of Abraham, Moses, Job, Noah, David, etc-- Jesus' God-John 20:17, rev 3:12. John 5:30)-- this is the God you want to be serving. Jesus will be-1 Corinthians 15:24-28

 

[michaelvpardo]

You quoted a lot of nice scriptures-TY--- I see two points of view in Christianity, two different Jesus' being taught.--- One must be serving the true Jesus.

One side points all to Jesus---Jesus points all to the Father. The one Jesus calls--THE ONLY TRUE GOD at John 17:1-6--verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah) a single being God--The God of Abraham, Moses, Job, Noah, David, etc-- Jesus' God-John 20:17, rev 3:12. John 5:30)-- this is the God you want to be serving. Jesus will be-1 Corinthians 15:24-28

I think that you still miss the point; Jesus did execute His ministry to glorify the Father, but the Father is an unseen, invisible, and eternal God who exists independently of creation. Jesus is the only way to see Him (but no less eternal), because Jesus is the express likeness of God, the invisible God taking on form in the person of His Son. Jesus never denied His equality with the Father, but avoided giving testimony to His own person. There was a reason for this, and it was (and is) a point of Law. The truth in all matters pertaining to the law is to be established by the testimony of at least two witnesses (and this assumes that the witnesses do not include the person who is the object of the testimony.) In other words, as a point of law, Jesus as our redeemer, had to be declared by someone other than Himself. God the Father, and the Holy Spirit both gave testimony of the person of Jesus Christ at His baptism with the voice which came from heaven and with the Spirit descending like a dove.

When questioned by "the young ruler," "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
Jesus answered, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God."
Now, this incident is mentioned in all three synoptic gospels, though the details given vary, but the point to be seen here is that Jesus didn't deny being good, or being One, that is, God, but rather sought a reason for the young man to have called Him "Good Teacher." The reason for this was that Jesus was looking for a declaration of His person. He went on to answer to the young man that he needed to keep the commandments in order to inherit eternal life, however he didn't say that unspoken thing which is that this is impossible for men (He did tell His disciples as much upon another occasion.) I can say this without doubt, because the scripture declares it elsewhere as with Peter's great confession:
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:14-16

Though Jesus didn't walk about proclaiming "I am the Christ" for the reason that I've explained, He did give testimony of Himself and was accused because of it:
The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.” John 8:13

What was Jesus' response?
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.” John 8:14-18
While Jesus was careful to fulfill all the righteous requirements of the law, he also proclaimed in these verses that He was effectively above the law having the testimony of God the Father within Himself and being One with Him. It was these declarations of His equality with God that infuriated the Pharisees and rulers who sought to kill Him:
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”
Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. John 10:37-39
These verses don't stand alone in their declaration of Jesus' equality with the Father, on the contrary the entire gospel according to John was written as John's personal testimony of the person of Jesus Christ so that we could understand the divinity of Jesus:
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:30-31
You'll notice that this doesn't say that in believing the covenant name of God you may have life.
What did the Apostle Paul say about this?
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11

So if God the Father has chosen to exalt the name of His Son, even above the covenant name which He revealed to Moses, who are you or anyone else to call Jesus anything less than LORD? The Son glorified the Father, and the Father glorified the Son, and we who have received Him glorify the Father through Him and by the power of His Spirit, whom He has given to all who will believe.
Give it up, don't cling to death and destruction, but believe and be saved.

 

[kjw47]

I think that you still miss the point; Jesus did execute His ministry to glorify the Father, but the Father is an unseen, invisible, and eternal God who exists independently of creation. Jesus is the only way to see Him (but no less eternal), because Jesus is the express likeness of God, the invisible God taking on form in the person of His Son. Jesus never denied His equality with the Father, but avoided giving testimony to His own person. There was a reason for this, and it was (and is) a point of Law. The truth in all matters pertaining to the law is to be established by the testimony of at least two witnesses (and this assumes that the witnesses do not include the person who is the object of the testimony.) In other words, as a point of law, Jesus as our redeemer, had to be declared by someone other than Himself. God the Father, and the Holy Spirit both gave testimony of the person of Jesus Christ at His baptism with the voice which came from heaven and with the Spirit descending like a dove.

When questioned by "the young ruler," "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
Jesus answered, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God."
Now, this incident is mentioned in all three synoptic gospels, though the details given vary, but the point to be seen here is that Jesus didn't deny being good, or being One, that is, God, but rather sought a reason for the young man to have called Him "Good Teacher." The reason for this was that Jesus was looking for a declaration of His person. He went on to answer to the young man that he needed to keep the commandments in order to inherit eternal life, however he didn't say that unspoken thing which is that this is impossible for men (He did tell His disciples as much upon another occasion.) I can say this without doubt, because the scripture declares it elsewhere as with Peter's great confession:
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:14-16

Though Jesus didn't walk about proclaiming "I am the Christ" for the reason that I've explained, He did give testimony of Himself and was accused because of it:
The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.” John 8:13

What was Jesus' response?
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.” John 8:14-18
While Jesus was careful to fulfill all the righteous requirements of the law, he also proclaimed in these verses that He was effectively above the law having the testimony of God the Father within Himself and being One with Him. It was these declarations of His equality with God that infuriated the Pharisees and rulers who sought to kill Him:
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”
Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. John 10:37-39
These verses don't stand alone in their declaration of Jesus' equality with the Father, on the contrary the entire gospel according to John was written as John's personal testimony of the person of Jesus Christ so that we could understand the divinity of Jesus:
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:30-31
You'll notice that this doesn't say that in believing the covenant name of God you may have life.
What did the Apostle Paul say about this?
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11

So if God the Father has chosen to exalt the name of His Son, even above the covenant name which He revealed to Moses, who are you or anyone else to call Jesus anything less than LORD? The Son glorified the Father, and the Father glorified the Son, and we who have received Him glorify the Father through Him and by the power of His Spirit, whom He has given to all who will believe.
Give it up, don't cling to death and destruction, but believe and be saved.

Yes God exalted Jesus and gave him everything--if Jesus was God it would already have been his. Yes Jesus followers bow in obeisance to our king.
In your translation at the end of the Lords prayer--Jesus says--the kingdom, power and glory all belong to the Father. That is why when Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God(YHWH(Jehovah) and Father, Jesus will be in subjection to him, just like we are. ( 1 cor 15:24-28) But God shares certain things like honor with Jesus, but worship is not one of those things. your verse 6 was proven error years ago. Out of the vaticans own archives.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Jesus taught----- Enter through the narrow gate, because cramped is the road that leads to life( eternal) FEW will find it. Have you seen the narrow gate? Are you one of the FEW?

It is a continually changing cramped road all right
When Charles Russell started his kingdom in the 1800's he assured his followers they were the exclusive 144,000 special chosen in Revelation

When it grew to 144,001 members Charley had to change the story in order for his kingdom to grow even larger

So he told his followers anyone not of the "144,000 heavenly bound" would form a kingdom here on earth

Charleys kingdom is visible to this day as the JW's






After all .... that is why they call themselves
"God's visible organization on earth"

 

[williemac]

Yes God exalted Jesus and gave him everything--if Jesus was God it would already have been his. Yes Jesus followers bow in obeisance to our king.
In your translation at the end of the Lords prayer--Jesus says--the kingdom, power and glory all belong to the Father. That is why when Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God(YHWH(Jehovah) and Father, Jesus will be in subjection to him, just like we are. ( 1 cor 15:24-28) But God shares certain things like honor with Jesus, but worship is not one of those things. your verse 6 was proven error years ago. Out of the vaticans own archives.

The bible does not say that Jesus will hand the kingdom back to His Father. It says He will deliver it to Him. This is not proof that it will change hands. It is a term that is often used in other ways than merely to give something to someone. If He was giving the kingdom back and stepping off the throne, then other passages would be rendered false, as I will show below.

The NWT in Heb.1 that says "God is your throne forever", is ridiculous. A throne is something that someone sits on. They are telling us that Jesus sits on God? This is nothing less than translational gymnastics to deny what was really meant by..." Your throne, o God, is forever"..

Here is Rev.22:3-5
3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

They shall reign forever. Not one. Both. No one is denying the fact that Jesus is at the right hand.

However Jesus said "(I and My Father) ..we will come to him and make our home with him". (John 14:23)

And in Rev. 3:20, He stands at the door and knocks, wanting to come in to those who open the door, and have fellowship. You can minimize His importance till the cows come home, but He intends on indwelling His followers with His presence, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is my testimony. Is it yours?

As for the narrow gate, Jesus said " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me".

Rom.5:19..." For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one man's obedience, many will be made righteous" There are those who submit to His righteousness and His work that was done on our behalf, and still those who seek to establish their own righteousness.

Jesus did not come to show us how to do what He did to get what He got. He came to do what He did so that He can gives us what He got. Freely!! (Rom.5:18, 8:32) He did not show us the way, as some say. He IS the way.

 

[kjw47]

It is a continually changing cramped road all right

When Charles Russell started his kingdom in the 1800's he assured his followers they were the exclusive 144,000 special chosen in Revelation

When it grew to 144,001 members Charley had to change the story in order for his kingdom to grow even larger

So he told his followers anyone not of the "144,000 heavenly bound" would form a kingdom here on earth

Charleys kingdom is visible to this day as the JW's






After all .... that is why they call themselves
"God's visible organization on earth"


Any who know God knows your words are twisted----- Gods kingdom is the only kingdom in heaven and will be ruling over the earth as well. Every kingdom of man will be crushed( Daniel 2:44)
Mr Russell knew these facts--how about you??????

It never became 144,001---an error on you assuming.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Well, Arnie outed the author of the thread and anyone who reads it will know exactly what he is (and ignore him.) I'm not inclined to let people who claim to be seeking God to continue on their happy way to destruction, but kjw47 has already received the message of the gospel and rejected it. He has enough information to choose Christ for salvation and he already stands condemned. What's the point of continuing to argue with the blind? So, I ask the saints who read this to just pray for his eyes to be opened and let it go.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Well, Arnie outed the author of the thread and anyone who reads it will know exactly what he is (and ignore him.) I'm not inclined to let people who claim to be seeking God to continue on their happy way to destruction, but kjw47 has already received the message of the gospel and rejected it. He has enough information to choose Christ for salvation and he already stands condemned. What's the point of continuing to argue with the blind? So, I ask the saints who read this to just pray for his eyes to be opened and let it go.

I normally would agree .... but in kjw47's case I admire his sincerity , he is forthright and clear speaking on what he believes etc.

I actually like the guy too .... and I understand how he got to believe what he does .... Mr Russel created a religion that is uncomplicated , easy to understand for the adherents , and very appealing to them , and probably spiritually peaceful in the sense that the devil just has to leave them alone and he has them where he wants.

Our christian doctrine of a divine Christ on a cross is nonsense to them and unfortunately this verse applies to the Russellites .... 1 Corinthians 1:18

I am hoping that kjw47 will study his bible on his own without Russell's books to tell him what it means.

I have all the JW "books'' some as far back as the 1800's and early 1900's .... I know more about their teachings than they do themselves.

I also understand the tactics of a cult and they use them all

For example if we bash them here on the forum or when they come to our door .... guess what .... they get bonus points for being persecuted.

It is a good system to keep them obedient to the Charles Russell Kingdom here on earth.

Venture too far to the truth and they will shun and ban you from the Kingdom .... the brainwash is complete.

 

[kjw47]

I normally would agree .... but in kjw47's case I admire his sincerity , he is forthright and clear speaking on what he believes etc.

I actually like the guy too .... and I understand how he got to believe what he does .... Mr Russel created a religion that is uncomplicated , easy to understand for the adherents , and very appealing to them , and probably spiritually peaceful in the sense that the devil just has to leave them alone and he has them where he wants.

Our christian doctrine of a divine Christ on a cross is nonsense to them and unfortunately this verse applies to the Russellites .... 1 Corinthians 1:18

I am hoping that kjw47 will study his bible on his own without Russell's books to tell him what it means.

I have all the JW "books'' some as far back as the 1800's and early 1900's .... I know more about their teachings than they do themselves.

I also understand the tactics of a cult and they use them all

For example if we bash them here on the forum or when they come to our door .... guess what .... they get bonus points for being persecuted.

It is a good system to keep them obedient to the Charles Russell Kingdom here on earth.

Venture too far to the truth and they will shun and ban you from the Kingdom .... the brainwash is complete.

I went further than studying Mr Russells teachings--I learned Jesus' truths and sought his teachers--A kingdom hall is the only place I ever found that actually teaches Jesus' truths. I don't know a single JW that is brainwashed--seems to me we are all mortal--all choosing with our own free will to walk the path we walk. We are obedient to Gods word firstly in all matters.
All of creation has seen what occurs when one trys to unxderstand the deep things of God without being taught by Jesus' teachers--they see 1 cor 1:10) 32,999 religions as a disunified mass of confusion. They see correctly.

 

[Floyd]

My understanding of the JW's, is that they :

Do not accept the Deity of Christ Jesus.
Do not accept that Israel are the "chosen people":
Do not accept that that Israel has a glorious future:
Do not accept that "Christians" are saved:
Only they are destined for "rewards" relative to God's pleasure in humans:
That "reward" is relative to how hard they work now; especially door to door.
Russell moved the "end of the world" dates, when they passed without incident.
Their precedent is the Arias of 2000 years ago.
See: Arianism: (Separate study), available at www.revelationsmessage.co.uk under subject index.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

kjw 47 ..... do you consider Islam part of Russell's kingdom here on earth ?

Muslims say Jesus was just a prophet and teacher , they say there is only one God , they say God has no son , they pray 5 times a day and live by religious rules.

Sounds a lot like Russel doctrine except they use the name Allah instead of Jehovah

And just like Mohammed was considered a new prophet in AD 600 , so was Russell in the 1800's

Russellites have kingdom headquarters in Brooklyn , Islam has Mecca

Plenty of similarities

 

[kjw47]

kjw 47 ..... do you consider Islam part of Russell's kingdom here on earth ?

Muslims say Jesus was just a prophet and teacher , they say there is only one God , they say God has no son , they pray 5 times a day and live by religious rules.

Sounds a lot like Russel doctrine except they use the name Allah instead of Jehovah

And just like Mohammed was considered a new prophet in AD 600 , so was Russell in the 1800's

Russellites have kingdom headquarters in Brooklyn , Islam has Mecca

Plenty of similarities

Never, Mr Russell is dead--he doesn't have a kingdom--YHWH(Jehovah) does, in every trinity translation in existence at the end of the Lords prayer---The kingdom, power, and glory all belong to the Father( YHWH(Jehovah)--believe Jesus.

My understanding of the JW's, is that they :

Do not accept the Deity of Christ Jesus.
Do not accept that Israel are the "chosen people":
Do not accept that that Israel has a glorious future:
Do not accept that "Christians" are saved:
Only they are destined for "rewards" relative to God's pleasure in humans:
That "reward" is relative to how hard they work now; especially door to door.
Russell moved the "end of the world" dates, when they passed without incident.
Their precedent is the Arias of 2000 years ago.
See: Arianism: (Separate study), available at www.revelationsmessage.co.uk under subject index.

1) true--Jesus himself taught--only the Father is the true God( John 17:1-6) verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah)
2) Israel was cut off( Matt 23:37-38) of being Gods chosen until they accept Jesus as the Messiah---- they wont.
3) If they accept Jesus as the messiah they will have a glorious future
4)All true Christians will be saved--there are many fake ones.
5)Rewards have nothing to do with works---Works build up a strong living faith--that is what works accomplishes.
Yes Mr Russell made errors----he had error filled translations to go by--it took years and years of hard study of Gods word, old writings, history, languages by many men to uncover--truths that needed correcting.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

So in other words there was no kingdom for 1800 years until Mr Russell came along ... then God began his kingdom here on earth

 

[kjw47]

So in other words there was no kingdom for 1800 years until Mr Russell came along ... then God began his kingdom here on earth

Rev 6= the start of the war in heaven--the rider of the white horse( Michael) does battle with satan and his angels and casts them to the vicinity of the earth--he receives his crown---( only Jesus gets the crown) the kingdom established in heaven-1914) satan comes like a devouring lion, angry knowing his time is short--he fills mens hearts with hatred and ww1 begins--the other 3 riders ride as well--after ww1--millions upon millions die from starvation, disease and pestilence.
The 2nd ride of the white horse we find Jesus leading Gods armies to the earth at Harmageddon--fully establishing Gods kingdom control over all of creation--forever.