What is the narrow gate?

[StanJ]

Nice try Stan, copying and pasting a bunch of verses which carry with them no understanding and to think this refutes something is rather pathetic really.

The adversary you mention here doesn't have any power...I am wanting you to show me this supernatural creature which you call Satan.

Unless your Satan needs to consult God about those he wishes to afflict and also being powerless requires God to do all his bidding, you have nothing here.

In the book of Job, it is God (not satan), who is considered the source of disaster by:

God (Job 2:3)
Job (Job 1:21; 2:10; 6:4; 10:2; 19:21; 27:2)
Job’s servant (Job 1:16)
Job’s wife (Job 2:9)
Job’s three friends (Job 5:17; 8:4; 11:5-6)
Job’s acquaintances and relations (Job 42:11)
Job’s satan himself (Job 1:11; 2:5)
If you can find ONE verse to suggest otherwise you will be able to convince yourself this being exists.

I wasn't trying at all. Simply giving God's word on the issue. The only thing I see as pathetic is how you respond to all those who know how to use scripture. Again all YOU do is deny, without reason or support.

I did show it IN God's word, you refuse to acknowledge it. You seem to make up the rules of your childish games as you go along instead of just being up front and honest about your beliefs. All the verses I posted show Satan so He IS shown in the OT.
His power is also obvious if you know how to read the Bible and see it, which obviously your do not. More childish and disingenuous games.
Job 1:12
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job 2:6-7
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.
I don't need to convince myself of anything, I have faith in God and His word. You on the other hand being a child of the father of liars do not want anyone to know who your father is so you deny him in hopes no one will find out. Hate to break it to you but all believers KNOW and the ONLY person your are fooling is YOURSELF.

NO. Two witnesses. Jesus says his Father is one witness who IS NOT HIM. In Jn he says Jn the Baptist is one the Father is the other, and another place he himself is one his Father is another. TWO HIMS.

And HIM ain't the one True God since the Father was HIM before Jesus could be him. Capishche? Do I have to educate the so-called EXPERTS??

In a forum such as this, avoiding the actual scripture just shows you don't know it. God has always been referred to as Him because of the patriarchal nature of the world.

Gen 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,
Gen 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

The tripartite God was evident then just as He is evident now. He is ever the same and never changing.

Capisce ?

 

[Purity]

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job 2:6-7

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.
I don't need to convince myself of anything, I have faith in God and His word. You on the other hand being a child of the father of liars do not want anyone to know who your father is so you deny him in hopes no one will find out. Hate to break it to you but all believers KNOW and the ONLY person your are fooling is YOURSELF.

Anyone with half your intelligence could see who afflicted Job and it wasn't some make believe supernatural being.

God (Job 2:3)
Job (Job 1:21; 2:10; 6:4; 10:2; 19:21; 27:2)
Job’s servant (Job 1:16)
Job’s wife (Job 2:9)
Job’s three friends (Job 5:17; 8:4; 11:5-6)
Job’s acquaintances and relations (Job 42:11)
Job’s satan himself (Job 1:11; 2:5)

If you can find ONE verse to suggest otherwise you will be able to convince yourself this being exists.

The adversary speaking: But (God) put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
(Job 1:11)

The adversary speaking: But (God) put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
(Job 2:5)

Your supernatural being is powerless - like your theology!

But Stan show us where it tells us your adversary is some supernatural monster who afflicts people when the entire book states it was God.

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over "all" the evil that the LORD (Yahweh) had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold. (Job 42:11)

Stan - its an uphill battle for you my tiresome foe.

If only you would listen - this wouldn't be so hard.

P.

 

[nothead]

I wasn't trying at all. Simply giving God's word on the issue. The only thing I see as pathetic is how you respond to all those who know how to use scripture. Again all YOU do is deny, without reason or support.

I did show it IN God's word, you refuse to acknowledge it. You seem to make up the rules of your childish games as you go along instead of just being up front and honest about your beliefs. All the verses I posted show Satan so He IS shown in the OT.
His power is also obvious if you know how to read the Bible and see it, which obviously your do not. More childish and disingenuous games.
Job 1:12
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job 2:6-7
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.
I don't need to convince myself of anything, I have faith in God and His word. You on the other hand being a child of the father of liars do not want anyone to know who your father is so you deny him in hopes no one will find out. Hate to break it to you but all believers KNOW and the ONLY person your are fooling is YOURSELF.



In a forum such as this, avoiding the actual scripture just shows you don't know it. God has always been referred to as Him because of the patriarchal nature of the world.

Gen 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,
Gen 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

The tripartite God was evident then just as He is evident now. He is ever the same and never changing.

Capisce ?

You don't since you think I made an issue over gender. No it was over number, GRAMMATICAL number. HIM is singular, and not plural but you guys gloss this every time. When God is called HIM this HAS to mean one of the three, not all three together which is THEM. US, OUR, THEY.

So then when the HE God speaks you have to determine which HE is HE. I don't. I only have one HE the Father.

 

[Floyd]

The word Elohim is Hebrew, not Aramaic or Greek, so Thomas would be unlikely to have used that word in an exclamation, nevertheless Elohim is a plural form of a common word for God, not a name, but a noun just the same. Since Jesus is the same God who manifested under the covenant name Yahavah (no one has seen God at any time but He manifested Himself face to face with Moses), I think that it's fair to call Him God and acknowledge Him as the visible person of the invisible and eternal God since the scripture clearly teaches that this is exactly what He is.
The use of didactics combined with the inability to understand the eternal is not an excuse for refusing to receive Jesus as the living God in the person of His Son when scripture clearly teaches this. You remain without excuse. At least kjw7 was honest enough to confess that he will bend the knee to the Lord upon His return as King and obeisance is both acknowledgement of His right to reign and a form of worship (see Mordecai's objection to bowing before Haman in the book of Esther, as well as the actions of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah in the incident with the golden statue of Nebuchadnezzar from the book of Daniel).
If you attempt to interpret scripture literally and without the aid of God's Holy Spirit (in the carnal) you will never arrive at biblical truth regardless of your acumen or intellect (the Lord has decreed it to be so). This is why carnally minded students of scripture continually find contradictions and apparent fallacy in what can only be reconciled by His Spirit to reveal absolute and inerrant truth.
I've shown prophetic passages from the Tanaach to unregenerate Jews with specific statements about their messiah from the books of Daniel and Isaiah and they were unable to see those passages with their eyes wide open. They could read the page and mouth the words, but there was no connection to their higher thought because they have been temporarily blinded (spiritually, but like Saul who became known as Paul and received Apostleship from the risen Lord) and theirs is the best attainment to understanding scripture that may be accomplished by an unregenerate soul and the best that any outside the ancient covenants may attain to without receiving Christ as Lord.
Don't believe me and blaspheme me if you'd like, but believe the scripture and don't seek to justify yourself before Him who alone is God.

I wasn't trying at all. Simply giving God's word on the issue. The only thing I see as pathetic is how you respond to all those who know how to use scripture. Again all YOU do is deny, without reason or support.

I did show it IN God's word, you refuse to acknowledge it. You seem to make up the rules of your childish games as you go along instead of just being up front and honest about your beliefs. All the verses I posted show Satan so He IS shown in the OT.
His power is also obvious if you know how to read the Bible and see it, which obviously your do not. More childish and disingenuous games.
Job 1:12
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job 2:6-7
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.
I don't need to convince myself of anything, I have faith in God and His word. You on the other hand being a child of the father of liars do not want anyone to know who your father is so you deny him in hopes no one will find out. Hate to break it to you but all believers KNOW and the ONLY person your are fooling is YOURSELF.



In a forum such as this, avoiding the actual scripture just shows you don't know it. God has always been referred to as Him because of the patriarchal nature of the world.

Gen 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,
Gen 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

The tripartite God was evident then just as He is evident now. He is ever the same and never changing.

Capisce ?

Amen to these truths from Scripture; stated and perceived by spiritual minds and hearts!
Floyd.

 

[nothead]

Amen to these truths from Scripture; stated and perceived by spiritual minds and hearts!
Floyd.

I guess we know where your vote is, no political favors for YOU, Floyd.

Try refuting rationally or reasonably using biblical principles and premises. Thank you. Votes don't count in theology; they are like belly buttons. Everyone has one.

My belief's are supported by Scripture (not even notes); as are all true Christians!
Your support of Satan places you directly in the "lake of fire" (the second death) of Rev.20:14.
All you verbal struggles on this Board will only make that event certain!

To all watching this: I find it interesting and significant that the main attacks on this Board, and in the world generally are the following:
1) Denial of the Deity of Christ Jesus.
2) Denial of the freewill of mankind.
3) Denial of the entity of Satan.
4) Denial of the existence of Almighty God.
5) Denial of the "inerrancy" of the Bible; The Word of God.
These and others are under attack from the servants of Satan constantly; with weasel words and "plausible" argumentation.
As we approach the end of the age of the Gentiles IMO, we need diligence and counter attack from the Word itself, to counter the likes of "Purity" and his ilk.
We can be sure that the Holy Spirit "the Comforter, the Word of Truth" is with us in this endeavour.
Floyd.

We deny Jesus is God since HE denied it in Jn 10, saying he is the SON of God not God, and this means an extension of the JUDGES OF TORAH SONS OF THE MOST HIGH in Psalm 82.

And in Jn 8 when they point blank said WHO ARE YOU, they also meant point blank WHAT ARE YOU and Jesus said, "What I've told you from the beginning." At NO TIME did he tell anyone he was God in Bible, so this HAS TO MEAN he is the Messiah and Annointed of God.

So then Bible backs up the very REVERSE of your number one item on your list, Floyd. Repent and ashes. On yo head and wherever else you may deem appropriate.

 

[Floyd]

I guess we know where your vote is, no political favors for YOU, Floyd.

Try refuting rationally or reasonably using biblical principles and premises. Thank you. Votes don't count in theology; they are like belly buttons. Everyone has one.

Confirmed heretics cannot be debated; they are too far gone; and only wish to disrupt good conversations!

However; here's a chance for you!

Purity refuses to reply to his own teachings.

Can you?



Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

If only you had 39 books to support your notions but you haven't one.

I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???
Floyd.

Lets see if you will answer this simple question:

From Purity:
“Through death” he has triumphed over Sin and Death.

In other words he has “put away sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Heb. 9:26).

From Floyd.
You have quoted Scripture above; but not explained it, by not quoting all.
This was ever Satan's way.
You say Jesus is/was (you change from time to time), a man only; but raised to "Son" status by His obedience; yes?
Scripture says; Jesus was pre-existent, and of the Godhead; who's right, you or the Bible?
Oh. before I forget, would you please answer my other points; which are from your statements and teaching in the last few weeks.
I am sure all the people her would love to see them answered!
Floyd.

PS: only the gullible here would give you any credence after your recent refusals to answer!
My concern is for the damage you will do in your lifetime; especially as you say you are a teacher!

 

[nothead]

Confirmed heretics cannot be debated; they are too far gone; and only wish to disrupt good conversations!

However; here's a chance for you!

Purity refuses to reply to his own teachings.

Can you?



Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???
Floyd.

Lets see if you will answer this simple question:

From Purity:
“Through death” he has triumphed over Sin and Death.

In other words he has “put away sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Heb. 9:26).

From Floyd.
You have quoted Scripture above; but not explained it, by not quoting all.
This was ever Satan's way.
You say Jesus is/was (you change from time to time), a man only; but raised to "Son" status by His obedience; yes?
Scripture says; Jesus was pre-existent, and of the Godhead; who's right, you or the Bible?
Oh. before I forget, would you please answer my other points; which are from your statements and teaching in the last few weeks.
I am sure all the people her would love to see them answered!
Floyd.

PS: only the gullible here would give you any credence after your recent refusals to answer!
My concern is for the damage you will do in your lifetime; especially as you say you are a teacher!

Not a SINGLE VERSE says Jesus is God in Bible. Put a single one up and I will shut your terp down.

And then you can twerp your terp to your own but not here where unitarians rule.

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).

[SIZE=.75em]23 [/SIZE]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This passage refutes EVERY TRIN DEAD OR ALIVE under the sun or in the DIRT or just dust in the wind but I DIGRESS...

The Father is saying HE is the Spirit of Truth, the REFERENT ultimately of the Spirit of God.

The Spirit of God is God's Spirit SENT to us...not ontologically/holistically/equalitively his own spirit, but yes SEEN to be by Jew and early Christian Gentile alike...the invisible presence of God but from HIS perspective only that spirit which He sends to us.

And NOT a third partner in any so-called extrabiblical and insane TRINITY.

Heb 9:26

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[SIZE=.75em]25 [/SIZE]Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[SIZE=.75em]26 [/SIZE]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SIZE=.75em]27 [/SIZE]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He PUTS AWAY SIN, as a lamb sacrificed on the altar PUTS AWAY SIN, not for all, but for the one who sacrificed the lamb.

If CORPORATELY sacrificed, then CORPORATELY propitiated, still not for all, those outside of Temple rites, pagans heathens and various sundry sinners.

Now instead of OWNING the goat or lamb we BELIEVE in FAITH of this Perfect Lamb of Propititation.

 

[Floyd]

Not a SINGLE VERSE says Jesus is God in Bible. Put a single one up and I will shut your terp down.

And then you can twerp your terp to your own but not here where unitarians rule.


[SIZE=.75em]23 [/SIZE]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This passage refutes EVERY TRIN DEAD OR ALIVE under the sun or in the DIRT or just dust in the wind but I DIGRESS...

The Father is saying HE is the Spirit of Truth, the REFERENT ultimately of the Spirit of God.

The Spirit of God is God's Spirit SENT to us...not ontologically/holistically/equalitively his own spirit, but yes SEEN to be by Jew and early Christian Gentile alike...the invisible presence of God but from HIS perspective only that spirit which He sends to us.

And NOT a third partner in any so-called extrabiblical and insane TRINITY.

Heb 9:26

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[SIZE=.75em]25 [/SIZE]Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[SIZE=.75em]26 [/SIZE]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SIZE=.75em]27 [/SIZE]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He PUTS AWAY SIN, as a lamb sacrificed on the altar PUTS AWAY SIN, not for all, but for the one who sacrificed the lamb.

If CORPORATELY sacrificed, then CORPORATELY propitiated, still not for all, those outside of Temple rites, pagans heathens and various sundry sinners.

Now instead of OWNING the goat or lamb we BELIEVE in FAITH of this Perfect Lamb of Propititation.

I'll take that as a "no"!
How surprised I am!
By the way; why do you post verses from Holy writ, with strange comments; as though you are the only one who understands them?
Your mate Purity does the same?
We are not in Kindergarten!
Floyd.

 

[nothead]

I'll take that as a "no"!
How surprised I am!
By the way; why do you post verses from Holy writ, with strange comments; as though you are the only one who understands them?
Your mate Purity does the same?
We are not in Kindergarten!
Floyd.

If strange, say why. If true say YEAH MAN. If false say why.

This is debate 101. Say your refute or cry in your soup. Two choices. Cry or fight back. Warriors of God do no less.

 

[shturt678]

Not a SINGLE VERSE says Jesus is God in Bible. Put a single one up and I will shut your terp down.

And then you can twerp your terp to your own but not here where unitarians rule.


[SIZE=.75em]23 [/SIZE]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This passage refutes EVERY TRIN DEAD OR ALIVE under the sun or in the DIRT or just dust in the wind but I DIGRESS...

The Father is saying HE is the Spirit of Truth, the REFERENT ultimately of the Spirit of God.

The Spirit of God is God's Spirit SENT to us...not ontologically/holistically/equalitively his own spirit, but yes SEEN to be by Jew and early Christian Gentile alike...the invisible presence of God but from HIS perspective only that spirit which He sends to us.

And NOT a third partner in any so-called extrabiblical and insane TRINITY.

Heb 9:26

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[SIZE=.75em]25 [/SIZE]Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[SIZE=.75em]26 [/SIZE]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SIZE=.75em]27 [/SIZE]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He PUTS AWAY SIN, as a lamb sacrificed on the altar PUTS AWAY SIN, not for all, but for the one who sacrificed the lamb.

If CORPORATELY sacrificed, then CORPORATELY propitiated, still not for all, those outside of Temple rites, pagans heathens and various sundry sinners.

Thank you for caring again - I keep looking for just one passage where we can agree to agree???

"The sins of many" is not limited atonement, not a contradiction of all the passages that speak of a universal atonement such as IICor.5:14, 15. "Many" is in contrast only with the One who bore the sins from the ancient Greek way of looking at it - basic 3rd semester stuff.

Now instead of OWNING the goat or lamb we BELIEVE in FAITH of this Perfect Lamb of Propititation.

The Perfect "Lamb of God" of Atonement = God the Son = Jesus = Lamb

Old Jack

 

[nothead]

Not a SINGLE VERSE says Jesus is God in Bible. Put a single one up and I will shut your terp down.

And then you can twerp your terp to your own but not here where unitarians rule.


[SIZE=.75em]23 [/SIZE]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This passage refutes EVERY TRIN DEAD OR ALIVE under the sun or in the DIRT or just dust in the wind but I DIGRESS...

The Father is saying HE is the Spirit of Truth, the REFERENT ultimately of the Spirit of God.

The Spirit of God is God's Spirit SENT to us...not ontologically/holistically/equalitively his own spirit, but yes SEEN to be by Jew and early Christian Gentile alike...the invisible presence of God but from HIS perspective only that spirit which He sends to us.

And NOT a third partner in any so-called extrabiblical and insane TRINITY.

Heb 9:26

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[SIZE=.75em]25 [/SIZE]Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[SIZE=.75em]26 [/SIZE]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SIZE=.75em]27 [/SIZE]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He PUTS AWAY SIN, as a lamb sacrificed on the altar PUTS AWAY SIN, not for all, but for the one who sacrificed the lamb.

If CORPORATELY sacrificed, then CORPORATELY propitiated, still not for all, those outside of Temple rites, pagans heathens and various sundry sinners.

Thank you for caring again - I keep looking for just one passage where we can agree to agree???

"The sins of many" is not limited atonement, not a contradiction of all the passages that speak of a universal atonement such as IICor.5:14, 15. "Many" is in contrast only with the One who bore the sins from the ancient Greek way of looking at it - basic 3rd semester stuff.

Now instead of OWNING the goat or lamb we BELIEVE in FAITH of this Perfect Lamb of Propititation.

The Perfect "Lamb of God" of Atonement = God the Son = Jesus = Lamb

Old Jack






You bring up a good point, old Jack except your own point defeats you to a blithering mass of bupkiss.

IF "God the Son" was EVER SAID you would have your own point, and it nigh well SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID if Jesus was in fact God the Son.

Why? Why since the same THREE WORDS packs MORE, MORE ACCURATE, and MORE EDIFYING meaning than "Son of God."

WHOO HOO THANKS for making our case for sure!! HUMINAH stand down and repent your view!! HALLELUYAH Great God Almighty is NUMERICALLY ONE!!

 

[StanJ]

WHOO HOO THANKS for making our case for sure!! HUMINAH stand down and repent your view!! HALLELUYAH Great God Almighty is NUMERICALLY ONE!!

Look at that... he thinks he just discovered something new. :lol:
Trinitarians have know that since the beginning of Genesis.
[SIZE=10pt]Jesus said:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] I and the Father are one.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Jesus said:[/SIZE] If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3:2
I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Col 1:19-20
[SIZE=10pt]For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Col 1:9-10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Titus 1:3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Titus 1:4[/SIZE]
To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10
and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
Titus 3:6
whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior
[SIZE=9.5pt]Is 9:6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Is 43:11-12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]I, yes I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I’ve revealed and saved and proclaimed, when there as no foreign god among you — and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD.[/SIZE]

 

[nothead]

Look at that... he thinks he just discovered something new. :lol:
Trinitarians have know that since the beginning of Genesis.
[SIZE=10pt]Jesus said:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] I and the Father are one.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Jesus said:[/SIZE] If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3:2
I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Col 1:19-20
[SIZE=10pt]For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Col 1:9-10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Titus 1:3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Titus 1:4[/SIZE]
To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10
and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
Titus 3:6
whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior
[SIZE=9.5pt]Is 9:6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Is 43:11-12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]I, yes I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I’ve revealed and saved and proclaimed, when there as no foreign god among you — and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD.[/SIZE]

You did not refute my point, STANLEY.

Secondly you are glossing the difference in ONE from the trad Jew view. Without a reason to stand on.

Jn 10 I and my Father are HEN, not EIS, the numerical one of the Shema. The same HEN of believers to God and man in Jn 17.

Thirdly you are misinterpreting the rest of your verses. Fourthly you are mushing the dogs of iniquity. Fourthly you are treading the Treadmill of Sadness and Death.

Shall we go on? By number 10 you are REALLY firing off the wrong cylinders.

 

[StanJ]

You did not refute my point, STANLEY.

Secondly you are glossing the difference in ONE from the trad Jew view. Without a reason to stand on.

Jn 10 I and my Father are HEN, not EIS, the numerical one of the Shema. The same HEN of believers to God and man in Jn 17.

Thirdly you are misinterpreting the rest of your verses. Fourthly you are mushing the dogs of iniquity. Fourthly you are treading the Treadmill of Sadness and Death.

Shall we go on? By number 10 you are REALLY firing off the wrong cylinders.

Well that's not up to you to decide is it?
The Trinity view only finds itself in the completion of the NT so it couldn't possibly be the traditional Jewish view. Another thing you fail to comprehend.
The word is εἱς (heis) and it means virtually ONE in union. If you want to get into specifics, then BE specific about what verses you are referring to and try not to be so obviously obfuscative.
Your inane alliteration notwithstanding, this just shows you have NOTHING to respond with.
I have no problem going on, WHEN you can be cohesive and coherent, which apparently is not your strong suit.

 

[nothead]

Well that's not up to you to decide is it?
The Trinity view only finds itself in the completion of the NT so it couldn't possibly be the traditional Jewish view. Another thing you fail to comprehend.

Em God then changed his name to "Father son holy ghost," amen. Stantillipians 8:3.

The word is εἱς (heis) and it means virtually ONE in union. If you want to get into specifics, then BE specific about what verses you are referring to and try not to be so obviously obfuscative.

John 10

ego kai o patEr HEN esmen...I and the Father are one.

hina pantes HEN Osin kathOs su pater en emoi kago en soi hina kai autoi en hemin HEN Osin hino ho....that they all be one as thou Father art in me and I in thee, that they may also be one in us...

You might want to RETRACT what you just said? Do you know the difference between the neuter HEN and the masculine singular HEIS, sir?

Secondly HEIS does NOT mean "one in union" but the numerical "one." Wrong twice makes Mr. Wong out of you not me, sir.

 

[StanJ]

Em God then changed his name to "Father son holy ghost," amen. Stantillipians 8:3.

John 10

ego kai o patEr HEN esmen...I and the Father are one.

hina pantes HEN Osin kathOs su pater en emoi kago en soi hina kai autoi en hemin HEN Osin hino ho....that they all be one as thou Father art in me and I in thee, that they may also be one in us...

You might want to RETRACT what you just said? Do you know the difference between the neuter HEN and the masculine singular HEIS, sir?

Secondly HEIS does NOT mean "one in union" but the numerical "one." Wrong twice makes Mr. Wong out of you not me, sir.

No, God never had a name. He was referred by many things but He never said my name is.

Now as far as the Greek is concerned, if you are going to try and appear that you know Greek then you should do a better job at it.
The actual Greek word used is ἕν or εἷς, which is transliterated as heis or phonetically hice and pronounced heyce.

ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν or transliterated is egṓ ka ho patḗr he esm, translation; "I and the Father are one."

It means exactly what I said it does, despite your equivocation and fallacious rendering. Hen is not used here, and this is not a noun but simply a cardinal numeral. The first cardinal numeral, masculine (feminine and neuter nominative forms are mia and hen, respectively), and is used to signify metaphorically, "union" and "concord", in THIS context. I know context is foreign to those who equivocate on God's word, but them's the facts. Please place your call again.

 

[nothead]

No, God never had a name. He was referred by many things but He never said my name is.

Now as far as the Greek is concerned, if you are going to try and appear that you know Greek then you should do a better job at it.
The actual Greek word used is ἕν or εἷς, which is transliterated as heis or phonetically hice and pronounced heyce.

ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν or transliterated is egṓ ka ho patḗr he esm, translation; "I and the Father are one."

It means exactly what I said it does, despite your equivocation and fallacious rendering. Hen is not used here, and this is not a noun but simply a cardinal numeral. The first cardinal numeral, masculine (feminine and neuter nominative forms are mia and hen, respectively), and is used to signify metaphorically, "union" and "concord", in THIS context. I know context is foreign to those who equivocate on God's word, but them's the facts. Please place your call again.

Mah mah, brotha you come up wid dah weerdust thangs. God doesn't have a name. Em, so this unamed God of yours is edifying to WHOM or WHOMISH?

Please read Exodus 3 again. Moses tells God whom shall he say to the people his name is and his answer: "I called myself "El Shaddai" to Abraham but now I am giving YOU my definitive name forever, a memorial for all generations...YHWH (he will be, third person) and this means I WILL BE WHAT/WHOM I WILL BE. Tell them THE BEING sent me to you.

Sunday School for Stanley in the Park. Stanley was held back in school. Now he goes to the Park.

And HEN ain't exactly HEIS since it is the neuter version of the same word. Please learn a smidgen of Greek before you tell NOTHEAD what a word means. Don't you know I wrote a PRIMER called "Nothead's Koine for Beginners?"

 

[StanJ]

Mah mah, brotha you come up wid dah weerdust thangs. God doesn't have a name. Em, so this unamed God of yours is edifying to WHOM or WHOMISH?

Please read Exodus 3 again. Moses tells God whom shall he say to the people his name is and his answer: "I called myself "El Shaddai" to Abraham but now I am giving YOU my definitive name forever, a memorial for all generations...YHWH (he will be, third person) and this means I WILL BE WHAT/WHOM I WILL BE. Tell them THE BEING sent me to you.


And HEN ain't exactly HEIS since it is the neuter version of the same word. Please learn a smidgen of Greek before you tell NOTHEAD what a word means. Don't you know I wrote a PRIMER called "Nothead's Koine for Beginners?"

Again, blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah.

The only name God has NOW is Jesus, then He had titles, not names. He was still God even if it was The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
He said to Moses "tell them I AM has sent you, He did NOT say my name is I AM. Pay attention. At least Sunday School kids know how to read and understand the Bible.

I don't need to learn Greek to know you are full of lies and errors. Reputable and preeminent Greek scholars clearly prove you have NO idea about what you fallaciously assert.

Here's some Koine Greek for you;


ὁ δὲ στραφεὶς εἶπεν τῷ πέτρῳ, ὕπαγε ὀπίσω μου, σατανᾶ· σκάνδαλον εἶ ἐμοῦ, ὅτι οὐ φρονεῖς τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ ἀλλὰ τὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων.

 

[nothead]

Again, blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah.

The only name God has NOW is Jesus, then He had titles, not names. He was still God even if it was The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
He said to Moses "tell them I AM has sent you, He did NOT say my name is I AM. Pay attention. At least Sunday School kids know how to read and understand the Bible.

I don't need to learn Greek to know you are full of lies and errors. Reputable and preeminent Greek scholars clearly prove you have NO idea about what you fallaciously assert.

Here's some Koine Greek for you;


ὁ δὲ στραφεὶς εἶπεν τῷ πέτρῳ, ὕπαγε ὀπίσω μου, σατανᾶ· σκάνδαλον εἶ ἐμοῦ, ὅτι οὐ φρονεῖς τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ ἀλλὰ τὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων.

God changed his name?


Where is this indicated? Jesus said "I come in the name of my Father." This means the name of the Father is Jesus? Oh no? The name of GOD is Jesus whoo HOO!!

What? Goooly, you sure know how to boogle your theology sir. Can you show me the moves? How DOES a man boogle as well as you?

Quoting the koine makes WHAT point:

Of course even this would not mean the three are the one Godas trinitarians want. The word for "one" here is in the neuterform, hen, which cannot mean "one God" since "God" is always in the masculine form in NT Greek, and grammatically adjectives (such as "one") applied to it must also be masculine (heis, masculine form).

NT Greek words meaning "one":


- hen is the neuter form for "one."
- heis is the masculine form for "one."
- mia is the feminine form for "one."


When the neuter "one" (hen) is applied to persons, it means "one thing." In other words they have become united in something such as "purpose," "will," etc. That is why Jesus prays to the Father "that they [Jesus¡¦ followers] may be one [hen,neuter] just as we are one [hen - neuter]." - Jn 17:22. Jesus, the Father, and Jesus' followers are all one [hen, neuter] in something. Of course they are all united in the Father's will and purpose!

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-john-57-kjv.html

 

[StanJ]

God changed his name?

Where is this indicated? Jesus said "I come in the name of my Father." This means the name of the Father is Jesus? Oh no? The name of GOD is Jesus whoo HOO!!

Quoting the koine makes WHAT point:

Of course even this would not mean the three are the one Godas trinitarians want. The word for "one" here is in the neuterform, hen, which cannot mean "one God" since "God" is always in the masculine form in NT Greek, and grammatically adjectives (such as "one") applied to it must also be masculine (heis, masculine form).
NT Greek words meaning "one":
- hen is the neuter form for "one."
- heis is the masculine form for "one."
- mia is the feminine form for "one."
When the neuter "one" (hen) is applied to persons, it means "one thing." In other words they have become united in something such as "purpose," "will," etc. That is why Jesus prays to the Father "that they [Jesus¡¦ followers] may be one [hen,neuter] just as we are one [hen - neuter]." - Jn 17:22. Jesus, the Father, and Jesus' followers are all one [hen, neuter] in something. Of course they are all united in the Father's will and purpose!

No, pay attention.

Stupid is as stupid says knothead. Grow up.

The point is obvious to others. You on the other hand never get it so I won't bother explaining what is right in front of your nose.

Well as the word used is heis then it can't be neuter can it? Also the example you use is NOT the one I was referring to, but of course you know that. Another sad attempt at deflection and obfuscation.