What is the narrow gate?

[truthquest]

Take a good close look at this picture that was in Apocalypse:It's Grand Climax At Hand(first edition) published by the Watchtower Society in 1988, page 52; and tell me what you see. Sometimes things are hidden in plain sight but if we blindly trust and follow men then we aren't going to see it. And by the way, this hasn't been photoshopped or altered. I saw this myself firsthand.

Guestman, are you familiar with this picture and if so what are your thoughts or comments about it.

 

[Born_Again]

I was just having this conversation with a co-worker a couple of days ago! This is a good topic. In some scripture, (too early in the morning to think of any to quote ) you have strict requirements to enter the kingdom of Heaven. But when you look at Jesus preaching on the hill you have simple things like the meek, the peace makers and so forth. If you want to know just how narrow the gate is, ask yourself "do you really live for Christ"? Is He in your heart with everything you do?

When you are potentially going to make a bad choice do feel the nudge from Him saying "this is not pleasing to God". Just my thoughts early in the morning....... Need more coffee! ^_^

 

[heretoeternity]

How about you list the exact things you are doing to stay on the narrow road.

That way we will have a perfect model to compare ourselves to.



Read your Bible....Jesus said in John 14.15 if you love me keep my Commandments, and in Matthew 19.17 to enter into life keep the Commandments, and He identifies the ten commandments..this is the foundation for salvation...the Bible is full of these instructions, so suggest you read Jesus words very carefully..Revelation says the ones qualifying for God's protection are those "who have the testimony of Jesus and keep the Commandments of God"
Apostle John in 1st John says "those who say they know him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"..he also says "how can you say you love God who you have not seen if you do not love your brother who you have seen".
Finding the narrow gate is all about Biblical love...do good to others, including you enemies..it is a condition of the heart.

 

[StanJ]

I was just having this conversation with a co-worker a couple of days ago! This is a good topic. In some scripture, (too early in the morning to think of any to quote ) you have strict requirements to enter the kingdom of Heaven. But when you look at Jesus preaching on the hill you have simple things like the meek, the peace makers and so forth. If you want to know just how narrow the gate is, ask yourself "do you really live for Christ"? Is He in your heart with everything you do?

When you are potentially going to make a bad choice do feel the nudge from Him saying "this is not pleasing to God". Just my thoughts early in the morning....... Need more coffee! ^_^

Jesus is the gate which is referred to here, and as such He is the ONLY way to enter the kingdom of heaven. It not a matter of following struct requirements, it is a matter of going through that gate, Jesus, and submitting to His will.

 

[HearGod]

Jesus is the gate which is referred to here, and as such He is the ONLY way to enter the kingdom of heaven. It not a matter of following struct requirements, it is a matter of going through that gate, Jesus, and submitting to His will.

A/the gate? Or a/the "narrow" gate?

I suggest you guys start a new thread dealing with Bible translations or how to understand John 10. Currently this conversation has nothing to do with the OP, which, (thankfully) has run its course.

I suggest you guys start a new thread dealing with Bible translations or how to understand WHAT/WHO IS THE GATE. Currently this conversation has nothing to do with the OP, which, (thankfully) has run its course. Sorrry! And please don't hate/mute me if/because I am a "Jew" (whatever that is) like Apostle Paul was, okay? Hahaha...lleluYah! (No offense! Just for laughs! I am just a light-hearted person.)

 

[StanJ]

A/the gate? Or a/the "narrow" gate?

Jesus is THE narrow gate.

 

[Angelina]

Luke 13
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

The roads are the way which one has traveled and there is only one gate that leads to life. Although there may be an easier road to get there, [as in this example] Jesus does not recognize the knocker because they do not know him personally. They are not his sheep nor are they of the fold. Jesus is the gate and he knows his sheep and his sheep know him. John 10:14

 

[Born_Again]

Luke 13
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

The roads are the way which one has traveled and there is only one gate that leads to life. Although there may be an easier road to get there, [as in this example] Jesus does not recognize the knocker because they do not know him personally. They are not his sheep nor are they of the fold. Jesus is the gate and he knows his sheep and his sheep know him. John 10:14

Yea, I think that's what I meant. Ha Ha Ha!!

 

[Xhavon]

Jesus taught----- Enter through the narrow gate, because cramped is the road that leads to life( eternal) FEW will find it. Have you seen the narrow gate? Are you one of the FEW?

The narrow gate is Christ. The path that leads to that gate is doing what he taught and walking in his footsteps.

 

[Born_Again]

Firstly, you have [mis]understood this parable out of its context. You should include:

Luke 13:22-23 (Hebrew Names Version - Your personal Bible?)
22 He went on his way through cities and villages, teaching, and traveling on to Yerushalayim.
23 One said to him, "Lord, are they few who are saved?" He said to them,


Secondly, you will never be able to learn the truth with "strange" (satanic?) mainstream Christian Bible translation/s (Another Gospel that will point you to another god/goddess/Jesus?). Let me help JUST ONE MORE TIME (I hope; you have to work out your own salvation and make your own calling/election sure):

Luke 13:23
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
εἶπεν δέ τις αὐτῷ Κύριε εἰ ὀλίγοι οἱ σῳζόμενοι ὁ δὲ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτούς

Superficially (showing declensions and parsing)
εἶπεν (3rd person singular aorist active Indicative verb) - said (spoke)
δέ (conjunction) - [subjectively] but (however)
τις (singular masculine Nominative pronoun) - a certain [man/one]
αὐτῷ (3rd person singular masculine Dative pronoun) - [to] him (Indirectly)
Κύριε (singular masculine Vocative noun) - Lord
εἰ (conjunction) - [conditionally] if (supposing, assuming the fact)
ὀλίγοι (plural masculine Nominative adjective) - few (puny/little)
οἱ (plural masculine Nominative [definite] article) - the [ones/men] (those)
σῳζόμενοι (plural masculine Nominative present Participle middle/passive verb) - [are being] saved
ὁ (singular masculine Nominative [definite] article) - the [one/man]
δὲ (conjunction) - [subjectively] but (however)
εἶπεν (3rd person singular aorist active Indicative verb) - said (spoke)
πρὸς (preposition) - toward (unto)
αὐτούς (3rd person plural masculine Accusative pronoun) - them (directly)

My rough cut:
But a certain [one] said to Him, "Lord, if those few [of them] are saved?"
But the [One] said toward them,
24 “Strive (plural = y'all to strive) to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you (plural = y'all = them), will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

Unless you are as dumb as (say, Johnlove ), please ask yourself these few simple questions:

1) Who were (are?) them?
2) Do you really want to put yourself in their shoes?
3) If you want to try to apply (retrofit?) the living word/s of God of this parable today, who ARE the many [of them] who will seek to enter [the kingdom of God] TODAY and will not be able? Muslims, Buddhists, Jewish, Christians, etc. or none?

to be continued.


And:

4) Who is this Master of the house, whom they will address as 'Lord"? Jesus or?
5) In whose presence did they eat? Who taught in their streets? Jesus or?
6) And whereabout are their streets? P/S verse 22 again.

to be continued.


28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

What has this verse got to do with [most of] you? Johnlove, I am not your father just because I sport a mustachio LOL! (Just for laughs!)

Hey you never know!!! Mustaches can make or break deals! LOL

 

[StanJ]

In its proper context, Yehshua was referring to the the narrow gate of the [large/wide] gate of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem). Haven't you understood what is "a/the hole of a/the needle" (Usually rendered as, "an eye of the needle" - Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25 and Matthew 19:24)?

Cheerio!

Matthew 7:13-14 and Luke 13:24-25 are two different settings and analogies. What was in Jesus' mind when He made these statements, nobody knows so basically it is just supposition on your part. Bottom line is that Jesus is the gate, the narrow way, the narrow door and the gate to the sheep pen.

 

[HearGod]

Luke 13:22-30
22 He went on his way through cities and villages, teaching, and traveling on to Yerushalayim.
23 But a certain [one] said to Him, "Lord, if those few are saved?"
But the [One] said toward them,
24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

Excepted from YHV Lexicon:
gate ([SIZE=9.5pt]G4439 feminine noun [/SIZE]pyle[SIZE=9.5pt]; a gate, a/the [large] gate/entrance [of a city/temple/building])[/SIZE]
door [SIZE=9.5pt](G2374 feminine noun [/SIZE]thyra[SIZE=9.5pt]; a door, the [small] door/entrance [of a house/building])[/SIZE]

This gate is not the same as the door of the courtyard of the sheep mentioned in John Chapter 10.
[SIZE=9.5pt] [/SIZE]
In its proper context, Yehshua was referring to the the narrow gate of the [large/wide] gate of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem). Haven't you understood what is "a/the hole of a/the needle" (Usually rendered as, "an eye of the needle" - Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25 and Matthew 19:24)?

Cheerio!

Mr StanJ,

1) Do you have a problem with the above rendering of Luke 13:22-30?
2) Do you think I have rendered it out of its proper context?

Well, I know now for sure that you haven't understood what is "a/the hole of a/the needle"[yet].

Matthew 7:13-14 and Luke 13:24-25 are two different settings and analogies. What was in Jesus' mind when He made these statements, nobody knows so basically it is just supposition on your part. Bottom line is that Jesus is the gate, the narrow way, the narrow door and the gate to the sheep pen.

What was in Jesus' mind when He made these statements, nobody knows????
Tsk tsk tsk! Nobody? Well, I know now for sure that you don't know, but I don't know in what capacity you are speaking for all others, unless you don't have faith in the [working/gift of] the holy spirit of God.

so basically it is just supposition on your part????
Supposition because you thought nobody knows? Not even literally? Here is one straightforward example (Please let me know if you need another):

Luke 7:12

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ὡς δὲ ἤγγισεν τῇ πύλῃ (pyle) τῆς πόλεως
King James Bible
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city,

Nestle GNT 1904
ὡς δὲ ἤγγισεν τῇ πύλῃ (pyle) τῆς πόλεως
New American Standard Bible
Now as He approached the gate of the city,

Jerusalem was a city/town that had a gate.

Bottom line is that Jesus is the gate, the narrow way, the narrow door and the gate to the sheep pen????
1) If Jesus IS the gate, then who IS the door of verse 25?
2) If Jesus IS the gate, then who IS the Master of the house?
3) Please show me one verse in the Bible that refers to Jesus as any gate?
4) The narrow door? How in the world did you come up with such a "strange" idea?
5) And where in the world did you get the gate to the sheep pen from?
6) Is the narrow way of Matthew 7:13-14 referring to Jesus? We shall soon see:

Well, I know now for sure that you will never be able to understand Matthew 7:13-14 from your regular "strange" Bibles/Babbles (Please check and compare with your personal supposedly translated version that are probably "strangely" influenced/approved by the Roman Church and approved by a certain "strange" Bible Society). I will only reveal to you a few of the dozens of errors in your (another?) Gospel:

Matthew 7:13-14

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Εἰσέλθετε διὰ τῆς στενῆς πύλης· ὅτι πλατεῖα ἡ πύλη καὶ εὐρύχωρος ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα (FEMININE SINGULAR present active Participle verb - leading) εἰς τὴν ἀπώλειαν καὶ πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερχόμενοι δι' αὐτῆς (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Genitive pronoun - her)· ὅτί στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ζωήν, καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες (finding) αὐτήν (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Accusative pronoun - her)

Nestle GNT 1904
Εἰσέλθατε διὰ τῆς στενῆς πύλης· ὅτι πλατεῖα ἡ πύλη καὶ εὐρύχωρος ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα (FEMININE SINGULAR present active Participle verb - leading) εἰς τὴν ἀπώλειαν, καὶ πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερχόμενοι δι’ αὐτῆς (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Genitive pronoun - her)· ὅτι στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα (FEMININE SINGULAR present active Participle verb - leading) εἰς τὴν ζωήν, καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες (finding) αὐτήν (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Accusative pronoun - her).


King James Bible
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

New International Version
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

In verse 13,

What happened to this ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the)?

leadeth/leads = FEMININE SINGULAR verb.
Exactly which one leadeth/leads?
The wide gate? Or the broad way/road? Or the _________(her)??????

What happened to this αὐτῆς (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Genitive pronoun - her)?

In verse 14,

What happened to this ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the)?

leadeth/leads = FEMININE SINGULAR verb.
Exactly which one leadeth/leads?
The strait/small gate? Or the narrow way/road? Or the _________ (her)??????

What happened to this αὐτήν (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Accusative pronoun - her)?

Do all these really look like a/my supposition to you? Just because you thought nobody knows huh?

King James Bible
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

New International Version
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Btw, if the narrow gate is the metonymy for Jesus, then who should we characterize the wide gate as? Satan?

 

[StanJ]

HG, all you've done is muddy the waters with other connotations and you supposed understanding of the Greek. What credentials do you have that would support your assertions above AND show us the modern translations that do exist, which you think are not accurate or don't render the Greek properly?

The wide gate is the world and Satan is in control of the world, so yes I suppose he is the wide gate that leads to destruction. You assert Jesus used a metonymy, I don't see it as such. It was an example, just like he did in the other verses I gave you. What is written in all those examples is metaphor, NOT metonymy or synecdoche. You may want to remember to whom and when this was all written.

 

[HearGod]

HG, all you've done is muddy the waters with other connotations and you supposed understanding of the Greek. What credentials do you have that would support your assertions above AND show us the modern translations that do exist, which you think are not accurate or don't render the Greek properly?

HG, all you've done is muddy the waters with other connotations and you supposed understanding of the Greek.
Please allow me to paraphrase your charge/allegation in a "cooler" manner:
HG, I suspect that you don't really understand the Greek Scripture because you and/or your translations do not agree with my Bible translations (ESV/ISV?).

What credentials do you have that would support your assertions above?
Please allow me to paraphrase your charge/allegation in a "cooler" manner:
As a faithful believer, I do believe that God could open the donkey's mouth to speak in human's voice because I do believe in the power of the holy spirit, but I would appreciate if someone here understands the Koine Greek dialect; to verify what HG claimed above. I won't want to sound like one of those Jews/Jewish of:

John 7:17 (ESV)
The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?”

John 7:17 (ISV)
The Jewish leaders were astonished and remarked, "How can this man be so educated when he has never gone to school?"

AND show us the modern translations that do exist, which you think are not accurate or don't render the Greek properly?
Sorry, I don't understand your question, please rephrase it.

The wide gate is the world and Satan is in control of the world, so yes I suppose he is the wide gate that leads to destruction. You assert Jesus used a metonymy, I don't see it as such. It was an example, just like he did in the other verses I gave you. What is written in all those examples is metaphor, NOT metonymy or synecdoche. You may want to remember to whom and when this was all written.

The wide gate is the world and Satan is in control of the world, so yes I suppose he is the wide gate that leads to destruction.
Ahem, so you supposed [a supposition]. Nevertheless, that's so original. Let's do some checks and balances here. If the wide gate of Matthew 7:13 is a metaphor for Satan, and the strait gate is a metaphor for Jesus, then the gates of hades of Matthew 16:18 is a metaphor for both Satan and Jesus? or Satan and his demons? or? You, funny!

You assert Jesus used a metonymy
Hmm... so you supposed [another supposition]. Please read my usage of the term metonymy again.

metaphor????
Have you drifted into semantics now? Very well, let me show you of an example of a metaphor:

John 10:7 (King James Bible)
Then said Jesus unto them again, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep."

the door of the sheep is a metaphor for Jesus.

Now, please show me how the strait/narrow gate became a metaphor for Jesus, and/or how is the wide gate a metaphor for Satan.

Luke 13:22-30
22 He went on his way through cities and villages, teaching, and traveling on to Yerushalayim.
23 But a certain [one] said to Him, "Lord, if those few are saved?"
But the [One] said toward them,
24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

Excepted from YHV Lexicon:
gate ([SIZE=9.5pt]G4439 feminine noun [/SIZE]pyle[SIZE=9.5pt]; a gate, a/the [large] gate/entrance [of a city/temple/building])[/SIZE]
door [SIZE=9.5pt](G2374 feminine noun [/SIZE]thyra[SIZE=9.5pt]; a door, the [small] door/entrance [of a house/building])[/SIZE]

This gate is not the same as the door of the courtyard of the sheep mentioned in John Chapter 10.
[SIZE=9.5pt] [/SIZE]



In its proper context, Yehshua was referring to the the narrow gate of the [large/wide] gate of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem). Haven't you understood what is "a/the hole of a/the needle" (Usually rendered as, "an eye of the needle" - Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25 and Matthew 19:24)?

Cheerio!

Let's take time to slow down, relax and rewind bit by bit.

Mr StanJ,

1) Do you have a problem with the above rendering of Luke 13:22-30?
2) Do you think I have rendered it out of its proper context?

Well, I know now for sure that you haven't understood what is "a/the hole of a/the needle"[yet].

 

[StanJ]

HG...you can either respond to my posts AS WRITTEN or not, that is your choice. I meant EXACTLY what I wrote.
Your onerous style of posting is not worth my time, hence the brevity of my replies to you.

 

[HearGod]

What credentials do you have that would support your assertions above?
Please allow me to paraphrase your charge/allegation in a "cooler" manner:
As a faithful believer, I do believe that God could open the donkey's mouth to speak in human's voice because I do believe in the power of the holy spirit, but I would appreciate if someone here understands the Koine Greek dialect; to verify what HG claimed above. I won't want to sound like one of those Jews/Jewish of:

John 7:17 (ESV)
The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?”

John 7:17 (ISV)
The Jewish leaders were astonished and remarked, "How can this man be so educated when he has never gone to school?"

Typo, it should read John 7:15. I repeat: (Please compare with your personal Bible/Babble if it's laughable or not)

John 7:15 (ESV)
The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?”

John 7:15 (ISV)
The Jewish leaders were astonished and remarked, "How can this man be so educated when he has never gone to school?"

John 7:15 (MLV - Modern Literal Version)
And the Jews were marveling, saying, How does this man know the Scriptures, having not learned them?

Let's just ignore the discrepancy/variance between these 2 texts:

Nestle GNT 1904
ἐθαύμαζον οὖν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι λέγοντες Πῶς οὗτος γράμματα οἶδεν μὴ μεμαθηκώς;

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
καὶ ἐθαύμαζον οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι λέγοντες Πῶς οὗτος γράμματα οἶδεν μὴ μεμαθηκώς


Ἰουδαῖοι (plural masculine adjective) = Jewish people (possibly/literally, the Judaic/Judeo-[Hebrews] of some 2,000 years ago, or possibly/allegorically, the Judaic/Judeo-Christians of today). An adjective is not a noun. Jews (whatever that is) is a noun.

man -- All texts omit.

γράμματα (plural neuter noun) = letterings (writings). It does not mean learning (a singular feminine noun) or educated (a verb) or Scriptures (a feminine noun).

μεμαθηκώς (perfect active participle verb) = having learnt. It is not a noun (school).

Are you guys very sure that all of your "strange/joke" books are worth defending? Why can't you all stop loving the glory (tradition/word) of men (humans) more than (meaning you love both) the glory (Yahshua/word) of God (Yahveh)? -- John 12:43

6) Is the narrow way of Matthew 7:13-14 referring to Jesus? We shall soon see:


Well, I know now for sure that you will never be able to understand Matthew 7:13-14 from your regular "strange" Bibles/Babbles (Please check and compare with your personal supposedly translated version that are probably "strangely" influenced/approved by the Roman Church and approved by a certain "strange" Bible Society). I will only reveal to you a few of the dozens of errors in your (another?) Gospel:

Matthew 7:13-14

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Εἰσέλθετε διὰ τῆς στενῆς πύλης· ὅτι πλατεῖα ἡ πύλη καὶ εὐρύχωρος ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα (FEMININE SINGULAR present active Participle verb - leading) εἰς τὴν ἀπώλειαν καὶ πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερχόμενοι δι' αὐτῆς (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Genitive pronoun - her)· ὅτί στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα (FEMININE SINGULAR present active Participle verb - leading) εἰς τὴν ζωήν, καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες (finding) αὐτήν (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Accusative pronoun - her)

Nestle GNT 1904
Εἰσέλθατε διὰ τῆς στενῆς πύλης· ὅτι πλατεῖα ἡ πύλη καὶ εὐρύχωρος ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα (FEMININE SINGULAR present active Participle verb - leading) εἰς τὴν ἀπώλειαν, καὶ πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερχόμενοι δι’ αὐτῆς (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Genitive pronoun - her)· ὅτι στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the) ἀπάγουσα (FEMININE SINGULAR present active Participle verb - leading) εἰς τὴν ζωήν, καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες (finding) αὐτήν (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Accusative pronoun - her).


King James Bible
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

New International Version
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

In verse 13,

What happened to this ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the)?

leadeth/leads = FEMININE SINGULAR verb.
Exactly which one leadeth/leads?
The wide gate? Or the broad way/road? Or the _________(her)??????

What happened to this αὐτῆς (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Genitive pronoun - her)?

In verse 14,

What happened to this ἡ (Nominative FEMININE SINGULAR [definite] article - the)?

leadeth/leads = FEMININE SINGULAR verb.
Exactly which one leadeth/leads?
The strait/small gate? Or the narrow way/road? Or the _________ (her)??????

What happened to this αὐτήν (3rd person FEMININE SINGULAR Accusative pronoun - her)?

Do all these really look like a/my supposition to you? Just because you thought nobody knows huh?

A Christian brother/disciple (with a meek and discerning spirit) whatsapped to ask me 'what is the strait/narrow gate?,' so for his sake (and those who are not puffed up), I shall gladly work out what has been worked in[to] me:

In it's full/lengthy LITERAL (word-for-word) context:

Matthew 5:1 through 7:29 (My rough cut)
[SIZE=10pt]5:1 But (However) having seen the crowds, He went up to the mountain of His, and having sat down, the disciples of His came to Him; [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]5:2 And having opened the mouth of His, He was teaching them (the disciples and the crowds), saying: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]5:3 “The poor [ones] are happy [in] the spirit because the kingdom of heavens is theirs.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]....[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]....[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]7:13 Enter ye through the strait gate because the wide gate and the broad way is the [doctrine] leading away to/into/toward the destruction, and many are the [ones] entering through her (the doctrine of scribes/humans/men)[/SIZE]
7:14 because the strait gate and the troubled way is the [doctrine] leading to/into/toward the life, and few are the [ones] finding her (the doctrine of Yhshua/God).
...
...
7:27 ......"
7:28 And it became [to pass], when the YHshua ended these the (sic) words, the crowds were shocked at the doctrine of His;
7:29 For He was teaching them as [one] having authority, and not (absolutely) as the scribes of theirs.

ALLEGORICALLY, the strait/narrow gate is the hole [of the needle] (the small gate OF the big city's gate), and the wide gate is the needle (the big city's gate).

@ StanJ
Just in case, you have learned something you never knew you never knew, the word you should be seeking for is:

touché :wub: unless you still can't tell your left [hand] from your right, sir!

 

[Enquirer]

The narrow gate in my view is twofold - first it's faith in Christ and then following hot on it's heels would be a transformed life through
obedience.
When Jesus said that He was "The Door" of the sheep in John 10:7-9.

So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers,
but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Now to the Jew of that day especially the shepherds they knew exactly what He meant.
What a shepherd of that day would do was build an enclosure like a circle and leave a gap or an opening.
Then at night out in the fields he would shepherd the sheep into the enclosure where they were safe behind the walls and then
he would lay at the opening or the doorway.
He in effect was the door.
No one and nothing could pass through to the sheep because they would first have to go through the door, the shepherd.

The doorway was not wide but narrow and Jesus is saying that He is that narrow gap through whom we need to go to find rest and
pasture.
HearGod is correct in stating that the doctrines of men are the wide path that lead to destruction.

 

[StanJ]

@ StanJ
Just in case, you have learned something you never knew you never knew, the word you should be seeking for is:

touché unless you still can't tell your left [hand] from your right, sir!

Sorry you're just sounding more and more lost in your own words. If and when you say anything sensical, I'll comment, other wise you're on your own.

 

[HearGod]

Matthew 5:1 through 7:29 (My rough cut)

[SIZE=10pt]....[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]....[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]7:13 Enter ye through the strait gate because the wide gate and the broad way [is] the [doctrine] leading away to/into/toward the destruction, and many are the [ones] entering through her (the doctrine of scribes/humans/men)[/SIZE]
7:14 because the strait gate and the troubled way [is] the [doctrine] leading to/into/toward the life, and few are the [ones] finding her (the doctrine of Yhshua/God).
...
...
7:27 ......"

Please hold press!

Matthew 7:13-14 should be rendered as either:
7:13 Enter ye through the strait gate because the wide gate and the broad way [are] the [doctrine] leading away to/into/toward the destruction, and many are the [ones] entering through her (the doctrine of scribes/humans/men)
7:14 because the strait gate and the troubled way [are] the [doctrine] leading to/into/toward the life, and few are the [ones] finding her (the doctrine of Yhshua/God).

or:
7:13 Enter ye through the strait gate because the wide gate [which is] *also the broad way is the [doctrine] leading away to/into/toward the destruction, and many are the [ones] entering through her (the doctrine of scribes/humans/men)
7:14 because the strait gate [which is] *also the troubled way is the [doctrine] leading to/into/toward the life, and few are the [ones] finding her (the doctrine of Yhshua/God).

The conjunction kai can be translated as either "and" or *also.

Please hold press!

Matthew 7:13-14 should be rendered as either:
7:13 Enter ye through the strait gate because the wide gate and the broad way [are] the [doctrine] leading away to/into/toward the destruction, and many are the [ones] entering through her (the doctrine of scribes/humans/men)
7:14 because the strait gate and the troubled way [are] the [doctrine] leading to/into/toward the life, and few are the [ones] finding her (the doctrine of Yhshua/God).

or:
7:13 Enter ye through the strait gate because the wide gate [which is] *also the broad way is the [doctrine] leading away to/into/toward the destruction, and many are the [ones] entering through her (the doctrine of scribes/humans/men)
7:14 because the strait gate [which is] *also the troubled way is the [doctrine] leading to/into/toward the life, and few are the [ones] finding her (the doctrine of Yhshua/God).

The conjunction kai can be translated as either "and" or *also.

the strait gate/the troubled way = the [doctrine] = her (a feminine pronoun).
The strait gate is definitely not a metaphor for Jesus! If it is, then what about the troubled way? Duh!

The doctrine of Matthew 5:1 through 7:29 is not about obedience. It is about knowing the difference between the doctrine of Jesus/God and the doctrine of scribes. Scribes! Humans! Where do you think the doctrine of your Bibles/Babbles came from? Think!

The narrow gate in my view is twofold - first it's faith in Christ and then following hot on it's heels would be a transformed life through
obedience.
When Jesus said that He was "The Door" of the sheep in John 10:7-9.

'In your view' [also in a way] equates 'the doctrine of men.'

A gate is not a door.

One/A narrow gate of Luke 13:24 and another/a narrow gate of Matthew 7:13-14 is/are under discussion. The door of John 10 is not under discussion. There is no reason for anyone to try to draw a parallel between them. Please do not try to add to (or poke fun at) God's word!

... John 10:7-9.

So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers,
but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Now to the Jew of that day especially the shepherds they knew exactly what He meant.
What a shepherd of that day would do was build an enclosure like a circle and leave a gap or an opening.
Then at night out in the fields he would shepherd the sheep into the enclosure where they were safe behind the walls and then
he would lay at the opening or the doorway.
He in effect was the door.
No one and nothing could pass through to the sheep because they would first have to go through the door, the shepherd.

The doorway was not wide but narrow and Jesus is saying that He is that narrow gap through whom we need to go to find rest and
pasture.

Jesus said: He is the door.
But you say: He is a gap, an opening, the opening, the doorway, the door, that narrow gap.
And you also say: he would lay at the opening [for the sheep to walk/step over him (?) in order to enter by/through].

You have blown your fairy tale story completely out of proportion. I think you are either a dreamer or you have read too many confusing Christian fairy tale story books. Me think it would be fun if you could expand your story to include the Doorkeeper of verse 3.

Cheerio!

 

[StanJ]

You have blown your fairy tale story completely out of proportion. I think you are either a dreamer or you have read too many confusing Christian fairy tale story books. Me think it would be fun if you could expand your story to include the Doorkeeper of verse 3.

Actually YOU are doing all the talking/writing, not me. I did ask you though for some verification of your credentials, but based on all you have posted so far I can see you have none so there's no use in pursuing this charade any further. Ba bye.