1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by CoreIssue, May 11, 2019.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,145
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Foundations are always solid. What the foundation is laid on can be compacted dirt rock etc., But there is always a layer of solid material.

    And it is 1400 x 1400. Yet again you are trying to defend an error in the KJV.

    A Furlong did not exist when revelation was written. It is an English Measurement.
     
  2. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,145
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Bible says it is gold as clear as glass. Which means 1000.0 pure, which we are incapable of producing.
     
  3. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,450
    Likes Received:
    24,870
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Of course you are correct about making comparisons between natural or carnal perceptions and the things of God:

    "He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end." Ecc 3:11

    What we are however beginning to see if we have any measure of the Life that Jesus brought that is beautiful and no wholly carnal or spiritually dead person can see it or understand any description of it we attempt to provide...

    The God inspired writers writing use human or carnal words to describe things and someone the "eyes to see" given to them by God will see them better as they approach God more closely. We all we use human language since there are tares mixed in with the wheat and therefore not everyone is able to "see".

    I would guess that when all of the tares and all the chaff is burned up then it will be His time for everyone that remains.
     
  4. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,145
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Revelation 21:19-21 New International Version (NIV)
    19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.a]">[a] 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,145
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    For clarity, the Bible does not say each foundation will be 100% gemstone. It says decorated with.
    Revelation 21:19-21 New International Version (NIV)
    19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.a]">[a] 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.
     
  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,145
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Bible says Israel is the wife of God and that he adorned her in fine linen and jewelry.

    It says the new Jerusalem is the bride of Christ and it is Adorned in finery.

    Just like covenant Israel refers to the people who live in Israel and not the land itself so does the new Jerusalem refer to the bride of Christ who lives within the city.

    Nowhere in the Bible does it say neither God or his people are not to appreciate beauty.

    God is the author of beauty.

    He created women to be attractive to men and to be attracted to men.

    Look at the world around you. There's great beauty in what God created.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    Lady Crosstalk likes this.
  7. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,341
    Likes Received:
    20,617
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    .... the street... Pure gold.



    One of the first things we learn in the bible is that Gold is the nature of God Himself, the only thing that is 100% PURE.

    In the heavenly kingdom we will walk ( "streets" ) in the 100% pure nature of God. It is all symbolism and- "let him who hath an ear to hear, hear."
    ( and spiritual eyes to SEE)
     
    Willie T likes this.
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    12,127
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Why is necessary to call it "all symbolism"? While we really do not understand the nature of heavenly gold or heavenly precious stones, they are presented as real, visible, physical, tangible HEAVENLY realities. For example, heavenly gold is transparent, unlike earthly gold. And heavenly precious stones are massive, in that they have been used to construct the heavenly city New Jerusalem.

    upload_2019-5-12_13-2-3.png
     
  9. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,341
    Likes Received:
    20,617
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I can agree, but I still see them as symbolic or what it will finally be to us.

    I believe that the Father speaks to us in picture form, because we are "as worms" ( not sure they have a brain, and compared to GOD, neither do we.)
    That is why we "live and move and have our being" spiritually , in Him.

    By the Spirit we understand...it bypasses the mind. Peace comes to us not by thinking in the mind, but by trusting in the Spirit.

    So, until we are there with the Lord, none of us can say- " This is what it will be like." We do not know, we cannot know.
    Right now we just have 'the ernest of our inheritance' ...a tiny , tiny bit , and have tasted of the awesome presence of the Lord...so we know Whom we have believed , and that it will be wonderful to be in the fulness of His Presence.

    Other than that......

    ...
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    Willie T likes this.
  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    12,127
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Did Abraham have a vision of a real heavenly city or not?

    HEBREWS 11
    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
    10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    There is no city on earth which has one foundation, let alone twelve. We do not even have a passage in Genesis which tells us about this vision of Abraham. But God revealed this truth to Paul (when he wrote Hebrews), and Abraham -- the friend of God -- was highly privileged to see the New Jerusalem, and anticipate his eternal home in that city (as can every Christian who believes the reality of this city with many mansions to accommodate countless Christians).
     
  11. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    7,510
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I love it when "Literalists" walk on miles and miles of wide open soft sand and grass that God created for us to enjoy, but insist that we will eventually be confined to a structure that makes Trump Tower's garish architecture look tame and sedate, trodding on hard roads of solid metal. LOL
     
    bbyrd009 and Helen like this.
  12. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,112
    Likes Received:
    6,045
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    He also said. Malachi 3:17
    [17] And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

    Gold perishes. Get what you are saying that this gold is purer than the gold on earth. Still... not buying it. The images of the jewels are truly pretty but (IMO) they are not the object of God’s affection but instead the people that make up the temple of God...they are the jewels, growing into an habitation for God. The same house of God Abraham looked a far off and saw. The household of God built upon the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone...the Holy temple made without hands, an habitation of God by the Spirit. Do you know any other whose builder and maker is God? (Hebrews 11:9-10)(Ephesians 2:19-22)
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    12,127
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    God intended to construct an actual supernatural and heavenly city. And He did. And He also showed it to Abraham. If that does not clearly establish that what is written was meant to be taken literally, then you might as well give up trying to understand anything in the Bible.

    It brings absolutely no glory to God to make Him out to be a deceiver and a liar. If there is a real Heaven, a real throne of God, a real Temple in Heaven, a real God and Christ in Heaven, real angels in Heaven, then there must also be a real city in Heaven -- the New Jerusalem. And it is more along the lines of several continents stacked above each other, rather than a city as we know it. It is 1500 miles high, and a cubic city to boot!
     
    Lady Crosstalk likes this.
  14. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,073
    Likes Received:
    1,118
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I agree. If the Holy Spirit had intended us to "spiritualize" it, He would not have included all of the detail in His description. In my opinion, He was painting a word picture to comfort us when times are hard. If God could create the marvelously beautiful universe, He could easily create a very, very grand permanent abode for His people. Look at the artists' illustrations of the beautiful palaces of ancient times. If humble human beings could build such structures and ornamentation, then surely God could build what He has described.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    Enoch111 likes this.
  15. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,380
    Likes Received:
    793
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of?

    Actually, most here are not able to contain it.
    Let's look at John 14:2 first, in comparison to John 14:23
    John 14 [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [dwelling place] with him.
    .

    Is God in Heaven, constructing buildings for us to live in, or is it that God is constructing within us now, His "abode"/dwelling place for Himself, in each who come to Him through faith in Jesus?

    We are not going to go live in a mansion made of wood and stone, but rather we are the many mansions in which God dwells, which is His House.

    Collectively, are we not "the House of God", "the house that is made without hands" , in which "dwells His Righteousness" and not our own?

    As "new creatures" in Christ, through God's Eyes, are we not "partakers of the divine nature"?
    If then a partaker of His Righteousness, are we made to be slums or mansions?
    .
    New Jerusalem is all who have received the promise of the Holy Spirit of God. We are the many mansions in our Father's House.
    .
    Jesus is now preparing a place to put His mansions in His Father's House. If you have received His Holy Spirit, he has prepared you (made you ready) for placement in his Father's House, among the many other mansions who are promised to be there!
     
    Willie T and VictoryinJesus like this.
  16. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,112
    Likes Received:
    6,045
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Well said.
     
  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    12,127
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    How can it be "well said" when it makes a mockery of the actual Scriptures? That's called flights of fancy, when anything can mean anything else. Here's a good example: New Jerusalem is all who have received the promise of the Holy Spirit of God.

    This makes God a liar, since He clearly distinguishes between THE OCCUPANTS of the heavenly city and THE CITY itself.
     
  18. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,112
    Likes Received:
    6,045
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    John 14:2-3
    [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so , I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    “In My Father’s House” being key there. What is God’s House? If God’s House is not Ephesians 2:22 then why would God say it? “In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”

    What is your definition of “mansions” ? If you say expensive oversized well-to-do homes God has prepared for each of us for those that acquire 100 percent pure gold...then I don’t know what to tell you @Enoch111.
     
    Earburner likes this.
  19. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,380
    Likes Received:
    793
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    In my Father's house ARE MANY mansions...
    You do understand, that Jesus was speaking in the present tense, correct?
    .
    Did you want to think that they are empty rooms, apartments, or houses that we are to live in, in the future? If so, then you are not thinking about the many who have gone on before YOU, including ALL who died in faith since Adam!!
    Please take a look at Rev. 6-9 and listen to the frustration of their complaint, of those who have!
    .
    [9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    [11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
    .
    Do you understand what "white robes" is in reference to symbolically?
    Ans. The Gift of Christ's Righteousness, of which the Holy Spirit is the vehicle of.
    .
    On the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit wasn't only given to the living disciples, but to all who were of faith, who lived before Christ first appeared!
    THEY ALL WAITED for "the Promise", through faith, but DIED before He appeared!
    Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4; 2:33-39; 7:17; 13:32; Rom. 4
    God did not forget them!!
    .
    "Under the altar" is not under the earth, but rather in paradise! Does that sound familiar? It should, because that "thief" of faith, died BEFORE Jesus did. He died in faith, and also did not make it to the Day of Pentecost! But he has NOW, with all the rest, as Jesus said!!
     
  20. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,112
    Likes Received:
    6,045
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Please consider also the “I go to prepare
    a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

    Remember when He told them a little while and they would not see Him...yet also in a little while they would see Him.
    John 16:14-20 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [15] All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [16] A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. [17] Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father? [18] They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith. [19] Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? [20] Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

    Remember when He said He must go to the Father. (John 14:23-28). But they did not want Him to go nor understood why He had to go prepare a place for them. Why couldn’t the Son stay with them? In light of His saying He would go and prepare a place for them. How He said if the temple was destroyed He would raise it up again in three days. going away to prepare a place for them was speaking of His death and resurrection. That is the place prepared for them...in Life of the Son. A place within the House of God. A place in resurrection Life which was made possible through the crucifixion and His going to the Father. It is not Him saying He went to Heaven to construct with hammers and nails(although that is true in what they did to Him) mansions in Heaven where He is building mansions (literal ones) right now till He comes again. He had to leave them and He said they would weep and mourn but He had to go to prepared them a place in the House of God...and if He prepared them a place in the Son; He would come to them and show them the House that grows up in The resurrected Son. The magnitude of His preparing them a place with His Death and Resurrection is diminished and overshadowed by what this world calls mansions.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
    bbyrd009 and Helen like this.
Loading...