What is the one true Church?

[Brakelite]

We are in the thread "What is the one true church?"

To this question, which was no doubt rhetorical because you answered it here ..

Do we look to the Protestants that believe God is a Divine puppet master that denied free will to mankind and makes all of reality a puppet show?

Do we look to the Protestants that believe as long as you believe in Christ you have a license to sin all you want and still go to Heaven?

There are some out there that think that Baptism is nothing more than a water show and some that have no idea how to conduct the bread and wine ritual.

How about the ones that think Christ is just a man

And I agree with what you are intimating, that we don't look to gross error in order to discover truth, and you conclude with...

As far as I am concerned if you love Christ and find salvation with Him and gather to worship Him we should be able to find common ground and accord.

Is God gathering together a people to represent Him in these last days, and deliver the final warning to mankind, the everlasting gospel spelled out in Revelation 14:6-12? Yes. What He is not doing is joining together a heap of disparate believers who compromise truth in order to unite, as is the case in ecumenism. Ecumenism will work in uniting people, churches, even religions of all kinds, but you must know that union will only be, can only be possible if everyone abandons their own truths, it at least willing to surrender some of their sovereignty and independence over doctrine, stop searching for more truth to become complete and perfect, and join for what the Pope has been saying a lot about lately, "the common good". But s would imagine you would also know that whatever the common good is, it will be from a Catholic worldview and incorporate a certain submission to papal social policy, a glossing over of essential differences for the sake of "diversity and tolerance", but agreeing on those things that Rome considers to be of paramount importance in doctrine... Beginning with Sunday sacredness (which they claim is the central hub of truth and from which all other truths emanate), and the trinity. Those 2 beliefs are often a central reference in many of the pope's encyclicals, even those that seemingly deal with more worldly matters such as their socialist politics and economic theories.
Anyone who chooses to go their own way and be independent...sizzle frits.

 

[Brakelite]

Guys, don't expect @BreadOfLife to argue against the Abrahamic venture in the middle east, BoL is a very good Catholic, dedicated, focused, single eyed and zealous for his faith. And what is taking place there is not outside of Catholic teaching and practise. So BoL will not criticize or denigrate the Pope in his efforts at uniting those faiths.
For almost 2000 years catholicism has demonstrated it's willingness to morph with other faiths, even pagan idolatrous faiths, so long as they agree with the one essential uniting criteria... And which will also be demonstrated in ecumenism... That criteria being submission to the Pope, whoever he may be, as head of the global religious community.

 

[Grailhunter]

Some Biblical truths are EXPLICITLY.
Some Biblical truths are IMPLICIT.

And some ya make up?

Paul ABSOLUTELY implies that celibacy for the service of God is HOLY.

Well I got ta tell ya, I don't usually imply the word holy to people....but if I were to it would be mothers and they are not celibate. Not having sex improves nothing....it does not make ya holy and having sex does not make you less holy....same before and after....just avoid the wet spot.

He refers to celibacy for the service of God and even “BETTEER” thing (1 Cor. 7:38).

I think it is butter! That way you can concentrate on what you are doing because all the blood leaves your brain! Ok, moms send your kids to the horny priest!

Ergo, if we are sanctified in marriage by service to each other – we are MORE sanctified by our celibacy in service to GOD.
Why is this so difficult for you to grasp??

Because celibacy does not sanctify anything.....same before....same after......the only difference is if the Priest falls off his celibacy wagon the only thing that gets molested in a hollow chocolate bunny!

And the Church hasn’t been “disgraced” by celibacy.

Like I said before when you set up institutionalized celibacy you set things in motion and get people thinking like I said in post #917. Celibacy makes ya holy! Having sex makes you dirty and evil! And then women are evil temptresses of the devil....next thing ya know you have priest stripping women and skinning them alive. The whole mentality makes evil things happen and we arrive in modern times with the Church having blood on its hands and apologizing for past atrocities and mothers afraid for their children to be alone with the priest and Church donations going to pay for settlements so the pedophile priests do not go to prison.

 

[Brakelite]

1 Cor. 7:33-34, 38
An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided.
So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not does better.

You need to read that in context. Paul, as all the other apostles and many church fathers, could not see a future of 2000 years until Christ returns. They all thought the second coming was imminent. In that context what Paul was saying makes sense... If you can remain single with sin and without putting to much pressure upon yourself, fine, but of not, them marry. Time is short and we all need to focus as best we can on the gospel because we live in perilous times and the end of all things is nigh ". That context cannot be made to fit into a general generic concept applicable to later periods. Time was not on the side of the church... Poor exegesis resulted in the very sin and attitude toward women that Paul warned about.

 

[Brakelite]

There is not ONE Protestant “Pope” over ALL Protestant factions precisely because you are splintered into separated FACTIONS – each having invented their own “doctrines”.

So, we have tens of thousands of little “Popes” . . .

No. Not all of those church leaders demand their followers obey him and not scripture. So they are not popes.

 

[Grailhunter]

To this question, which was no doubt rhetorical because you answered it here ..


And I agree with what you are intimating, that we don't look to gross error in order to discover truth, and you conclude with...

Is God gathering together a people to represent Him in these last days, and deliver the final warning to mankind, the everlasting gospel spelled out in Revelation 14:6-12? Yes. What He is not doing is joining together a heap of disparate believers who compromise truth in order to unite, as is the case in ecumenism. Ecumenism will work in uniting people, churches, even religions of all kinds, but you must know that union will only be, can only be possible if everyone abandons their own truths, it at least willing to surrender some of their sovereignty and independence over doctrine, stop searching for more truth to become complete and perfect, and join for what the Pope has been saying a lot about lately, "the common good". But s would imagine you would also know that whatever the common good is, it will be from a Catholic worldview and incorporate a certain submission to papal social policy, a glossing over of essential differences for the sake of "diversity and tolerance", but agreeing on those things that Rome considers to be of paramount importance in doctrine... Beginning with Sunday sacredness (which they claim is the central hub of truth and from which all other truths emanate), and the trinity. Those 2 beliefs are often a central reference in many of the pope's encyclicals, even those that seemingly deal with more worldly matters such as their socialist politics and economic theories.
Anyone who chooses to go their own way and be independent...sizzle frits.

And I always like to ask....how are things in Australia?
Take it from someone that has intentionally worshipped with several different denominations in Missouri, up and down the eastern seaboard and Virgin Island and 5 other countries...... ain't none of them got it right!
We are all a work in progress with different opinions......
But we have LGBTQ's, atheists, communists, Moslems, druggies, child molesters and democrats and the such that can be our enemies....
Christians should find it in their hearts to be able to mingle and worship the Lord together. Who knows we may influence each other by association in a good way. Love God...love one another.....tolerate some of the differences knowing you....me....and our neighbor will never get it perfect. Shoot I will even hug a Calvinist every once and a while and forgive those that read the King James Version.

 

[Ziggy]

That most of us own and read the Bible.

Oh,
I own many, but I can't read any. The one I have in LARGE PRINT is packed away somewhere in oblivion.
I use Blueletterbible.org for my reading. I can enlarge the text on that. And I use Youtube to listen to the entire Bible every night.
Sometimes I listen to Psalms, or Isaiah, The Gospels, Revelation. It's on a loop so it plays continueously.
My typing is getting rough. I have to proofread everything, which is why sometimes it takes me awhile to respond.

Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible

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That most of us own and read the Bible.

Hugs

 

[Taken]

I don’t share your “Popes” . . .

You resemble that remark....you don’t share what doesn’t exist....LOL duh!

 

[Brakelite]

@BreadOfLife we are sanctified by God's word and the work of the holy Spirit in our lives. Set apart for holy use is not unique to single people. Married people, even the unbelieving partner, are sanctified by the other... How much more if both are believers.

@Illuminator said...its reliance on grace as on something which supplants man’s nature rather than penetrates it.
Absolutely. Sin brings death. Which is why God places us in His Son on the cross... We die to self, the old nature is buried and we are born again. We don't need crutches or small incisive operations... We need full heart transplants. The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. Death is the ONLY antidote to sin.

 

[Taken]

Just shows the desperation of an ignorant anti-Catholic.
“Chrislam” is fictitious religious created by G.K.K Chesterton in his novel, The Flying Inn.

It is used by religious conspiracy theorists – like yourself.
What pathetic desperation . . .

You are deaf and blind to what your pope is doing.

 

[Illuminator]

To this question, which was no doubt rhetorical because you answered it here ..


And I agree with what you are intimating, that we don't look to gross error in order to discover truth, and you conclude with...

Is God gathering together a people to represent Him in these last days, and deliver the final warning to mankind, the everlasting gospel spelled out in Revelation 14:6-12? Yes. What He is not doing is joining together a heap of disparate believers who compromise truth in order to unite, as is the case in ecumenism. Ecumenism will work in uniting people, churches, even religions of all kinds, but you must know that union will only be, can only be possible if everyone abandons their own truths, it at least willing to surrender some of their sovereignty and independence over doctrine, stop searching for more truth to become complete and perfect, and join for what the Pope has been saying a lot about lately, "the common good". But s would imagine you would also know that whatever the common good is, it will be from a Catholic worldview and incorporate a certain submission to papal social policy, a glossing over of essential differences for the sake of "diversity and tolerance", but agreeing on those things that Rome considers to be of paramount importance in doctrine... Beginning with Sunday sacredness (which they claim is the central hub of truth and from which all other truths emanate), and the trinity. Those 2 beliefs are often a central reference in many of the pope's encyclicals, even those that seemingly deal with more worldly matters such as their socialist politics and economic theories.
Anyone who chooses to go their own way and be independent...sizzle frits.

First, Brokelite re-defines ecumenism to make it look ugly, then he attacks his private definition.

Is Ecumenism a Heresy?

Vying with the Declaration on Religious Liberty for ...

www.catholic.com

 

[Philip James]

Guys, don't expect @BreadOfLife to argue against the Abrahamic venture in the middle east, BoL is a very good Catholic, dedicated, focused, single eyed and zealous for his faith. And what is taking place there is not outside of Catholic teaching and practise. So BoL will not criticize or denigrate the Pope in his efforts at uniting those faiths.
For almost 2000 years catholicism has demonstrated it's willingness to morph with other faiths, even pagan idolatrous faiths, so long as they agree with the one essential uniting criteria... And which will also be demonstrated in ecumenism... That criteria being submission to the Pope, whoever he may be, as head of the global religious community.

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

" Indeed, the Church, guided by charity and respect for freedom,98 must be primarily committed to proclaiming to all people the truth definitively revealed by the Lord, and to announcing the necessity of conversion to Jesus Christ and of adherence to the Church through Baptism and the other sacraments, in order to participate fully in communion with God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thus, the certainty of the universal salvific will of God does not diminish, but rather increases the duty and urgency of the proclamation of salvation and of conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ."

There us the criteria.. I suggest a thorough reading of that document to understand Church teaching on interreligious dialogue

Pax et Bonum

 

[Ziggy]

If this is what the Kingdom of God looks like, with all this ummmm fruit,
I shudder to think what hell looks like.
Just sayin..
Hugs

 

[Illuminator]

You are deaf and blind to what your pope is doing.

I almost fell off my chair laughing. Taken hasn't a clue what the Pope is doing. It's 2023, not 1517.

Pope Francis Archives - ZENIT - English

zenit.org

 

[Illuminator]

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

" Indeed, the Church, guided by charity and respect for freedom,98 must be primarily committed to proclaiming to all people the truth definitively revealed by the Lord, and to announcing the necessity of conversion to Jesus Christ and of adherence to the Church through Baptism and the other sacraments, in order to participate fully in communion with God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thus, the certainty of the universal salvific will of God does not diminish, but rather increases the duty and urgency of the proclamation of salvation and of conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ."

There us the criteria.. I suggest a thorough reading of that document to understand Church teaching on interreligious dialogue

Pax et Bonum

Even if Brokelite did read it, he would only re-interpret it through the lens of his occult foundress, forcing every Catholic line ever written to fulfil false prophecies. It's a fear-based bondage.

Search

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[Illuminator]

If this is what the Kingdom of God looks like, with all this ummmm fruit,
I shudder to think what hell looks like.
Just sayin..
Hugs

Good point. True ecumenism unites Christians, not denominations.
False ecumenism demands one comprises his beliefs for the sake of a sham "unity".
True ecumenism is where we can cooperate with each other to spread the Gospel in a culture in the fast lane towards self-destruction.
False ecumenism is synergistic, meaning the combination of different forms of belief or practice. This forum is highly synergistic.
True ecumenism upholds the dignity of the person you disagree with.
False ecumenism violates a person's religious freedom.
True ecumenism embellishes ones true beliefs without supplanting them. That's why converts don't bash their former faith.
But don't listen to me, listen to them.

Conversion Stories Archives - The Coming Home Network

 

[Ziggy]

Ecumenism
Ecumenism, also spelled oecumenism, is the concept and principle that Christians who belong to different Christian denominations should work together to develop closer relationships among their churches and promote Christian unity.

How many Kingdoms of God are there?

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Ecumenism
Ecumenism, also spelled oecumenism, is the concept and principle that Christians who belong to different Christian denominations should work together to develop closer relationships among their churches and promote Christian unity.

How many Kingdoms of God are there?

Hugs

I was thinking... (I do that a lot)
In my Father's house are many mansions, if it were not so I would of told you.
Maybe there is room for everyone? To grow. Until we all come in the unity and knowledge...
Eph 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Love is the Key.

Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

Even if Brokelite did read it, he would only re-interpret it through the lens of his occult foundress, forcing every Catholic line ever written to fulfil false prophecies. It's a fear-based bondage.

Search

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www.catholic.com

Seems I'm touching a nerve, the response from you uncharacteristically venomous, a response I would normally expect from BoL and MOG. . Philip restrains himself admirably, but now and again you do reveal your true colors.
Baptized paganism is a thing. It has been around for nearly 2 millennia. Just gaze upon St Peters square in Rome for an introduction to occult pagan symbolism. Them you may progress into the nearby church of St John, shaped like a serpent. Then the tour will progress through the Vatican itself, particularly the Vatican museum wherein is found all manner of pagan statues "baptized" and "blessed" , or should I say pressed, into Catholic service. I don't need to go into the doctrines, the symbolism and occultic practices and ceremonies sufficient to show a case to answer.
Is it any different to the demand of the council of Trent that anyone, including religious bodies such as the Anglican church of England, surrender spiritual authority to the Pope at the expense of protestant truth? Yes, it is different. Those pagan occult beliefs were morphed and given Christian names and new identities, yet they remain pagan at their core. Like Christmas day. Easter. Sunday sacredness. The Catholic trinity.

I would love to discuss prophecy with you illuminator, perhaps we could start with the prophetic expectations of the church fathers?
Jerome, Tertulian Cyril of Jerusalem, Ambrose? Etc?

and of adherence to the Church through Baptism and the other sacraments, in order to participate fully in communion with God

You see, that's where my issue lies. That little seemingly innocuous phrase, adherence to the church. The question is, are we to adhere to the teachings of the church of said church no longer teaches truth according to scripture? Catholics would say yes, because tradition, when the Pope approves, trumps scripture. So then we have a while different paradigm... We have catholicism. Do we have Christianity? Now there's the rub.

 

[Taken]

I almost fell off my chair laughing. Taken hasn't a clue what the Pope is doing. It's 2023, not 1517.

I never claimed to keep tabs on your pope.

BOL seems to have missed “Middle Eastern” news of your popes “Collaboration” involvement with Islam.

What you seem to think is funny, I find alarming.