What is the one true Church?

[Brakelite]

REALLY??

EVERY Protestant wedding I’ve ever been to – and I’ve been to DOZENS – involved WEDDING RINGS. As I explained to you before – this was a PAGAN SYMBOL that was absorbed by Christianity and given NEW meaning.

How man PROTESTANT vehicles on the freeway have the “FISH” (ICTHUS) symbol for Christ?

Well – that little symbol came from PAGAN Greece and was cop-opted by Christians who changed the meaning FOREVER.

The CROSS also represents several pagan gods including Bacchus, the Roman god of wine and revelry, Gee – how many PROTESTANT churches and neck are adorned with this symbol??

There are MANY formerly PAGAN symbols that festoon PROTESTANT homes and churches . . .
Christmas wreaths

Christmas Trees

Calendars

Days of the week

Months of the year

FORMER pagan symbols are just that: FORMER.
Nobody remembers or even tries to bring ANY importance to their original meaning.

YOUR sanctimonious objections are nothing more than your usual, patented HYPOCRISY . . .

Lol. You are still treating me like an idiot. You must think me a raving legalist if you believe I'm concerned over Christmas trees, wedding rings, and calendars. You completely ignore what did concern me, I spelt it out very clearly, with attached quotes and references. Pantheism is alive and very well in modern catholicism, and is being promoted as the vehicle through which the modern Papacy sells global hegemony.
Please explain how a church that has so abandoned the true God in favor of pagan pantheism stills qualifies as God's church, and has not contrariwise fallen, fallen, and become the habitation of devils and foul birds?

 

[Philip James]

By this I would imagine you mean Catholic Church..

Why single out your specific church as being held true by Christ, and not others?

Indeed. So how do you identify that community? Through scripture, tradition, or the say so of the community itsel

Hello Brakelite,

The Church is catholic by definition. Christ only has One body. One is either part of it or not... we must be careful to distinguish between particular churches , that is the Church in different locations and the Church catholic, which is the entire Body everywhere..


Single out my particular church? When have I ever done that? If Rome is your stumbling block, come to the Feast with Alexandria, come with Constantinople, but come!

Identifying the community is not difficult. As my Orthodox brethren say: 'One can say with assurance where the Church is, but not where it is not...

Wherever a valid Eucharist is celebrated, there is the Church!

Pax et Bonum!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lol. You are still treating me like an idiot.

If the shoe fits - don't blame me . . .

You must think me a raving legalist if you believe I'm concerned over Christmas trees, wedding rings, and calendars. You completely ignore what did concern me, I spelt it out very clearly, with attached quotes and references. Pantheism is alive and very well in modern catholicism, and is being promoted as the vehicle through which the modern Papacy sells global hegemony.
Please explain how a church that has so abandoned the true God in favor of pagan pantheism stills qualifies as God's church, and has not contrariwise fallen, fallen, and become the habitation of devils and foul birds?

You have YET to explain this monsense.
Accusations aren't worth the time it took you to type them until you have proof.

Your goddess/dounder spent a LOT of time doung that, sp I'
m NOT surprised . . .

 

[Brakelite]

If the shoe fits - don't blame me . . .

You have YET to explain this monsense.
Accusations aren't worth the time it took you to type them until you have proof.

Post #1654

 

[BreadOfLife]

Post #1654

Sooooo, because Pope Francis wrote an encyclical about environmentalism – YOU believe this to be perverted or “pagan” doctrine??

That’s quite a stretch . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

Pagans!!!! Pagan, heathens, and Gentiles. Depending on how accurate and detailed you want your understanding to be of the first 4 centuries, you have to put yourself back in that time and understand their understandings.

No one in the first four centuries consider themselves Pagan and no one called anyone Pagan because it is an English word circa 14th century. The Romans had a Latin word....paganus....which meant rural dwellers. It looks close but the meaning is different. And the Romans did not care about what gods they worshipped. So "pagan" is not a religious category in this time period.....so in this time period what we call Pagans....are the norm and Jews and Christians are not. So they did not have a negative term for the norm.

So what did "they" call them? Well "they" is a matter of perspective. The Romans called Jews and Christians heathens and the Jews and Christians called the Romans heathens. So you can see that labels like this is a matter of perspective.

The scriptures adopted the word Gentiles....with various open ended definitions that mostly means not Jewish. We have to leave it as not Jewish because the people that were converted were called Gentiles and the people that had not been converted were called Gentiles.

So then this happens....Act 13-44-49
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him. Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. The word of the Lord spread through the whole region.

So Paul and Barnabas start devoting their time to the ministry to the Gentiles and many of them are converted and quickly become the majority in Christianity and after the 1st century become the leaders of Christianity.

But what does not happen. And this is very important for the perspective of modern Christians. They have a sort of disconnected negative juggling act going on in their heads.....But we are Gentiles! The vast majority of us are descendants of those that worshipped the Greco-Roman gods. And then some of those that worshipped Greco-Roman gods converted to Christianity. This was a change of the deity that they believed in and worshipped. But that was just the deity, not their cultures, traditions, and celebrations.

The Gentiles initially came from all over and each region had their own seasonal holidays, traditions, and culture and they did not abandon them. Some of these traditions were actually offensive to early Gentile-Christians so over time these holidays and traditions were tweaked to Christianize them. A lot of these holidays and traditions still exist today and are observed by Christians. Paul nor the Bible went over what the Gentiles would have to stop observing.....so many holidays and traditions.... so if the Bible would have addressed this....it would be obvious. Of course anything to do with false deities would not be practiced....no sacrifices to false deities and Christians were not allowed to eat sacrifices to deities.

Then one of Christianity's most popular traditions that being wedding ceremonies are strictly Gentile.....(or Pagan as people understand it now.) Wedding ceremonies go back several millennia but only Pagan cultures performed wedding ceremonies. Christianity adopted this Pagan tradition after the Gentiles converted and that is a very good thing. I say Pagan tradition because even today there are Pagan traditions and rituals in Christian wedding ceremonies and receptions.... celebrations.....

(The Jewish wedding ceremonies that developed during their time in Persia is a different story.....they were never required and mostly discontinued in the biblical era due to their "Pagan" influence.....long story.)

So when people criticize or condemn each other for practicing these traditions, all that really means is that they are not knowledgeable of how and why all that happened.

Sure a person can say they reject the Gentile-Christians....the Catholic Church.....and the Protestant denominations?
Where does that leave them? Are they going to try being a Jewish-Christian? Some say it, but very few do it. Are they going to give up wedding ceremonies......Jewish-Christians practiced polygamy and concubinage for nearly a thousand years after the biblical era.....mainly because there was no biblical moratorium on the practice....Jewish-Christians considered themselves and extension of Judaism, and it was very much a part of their religious beliefs and culture....Jews with multiple wives were not required to divorce all but one wife to be a Christian....for that reason Paul had to stipulate to be in church administration a man had to be the husband of only one wife.

So the "Christian Church" today with all of it denominations are in fact Gentile-Christians.....and all those Gentile rituals and traditions in Christianity are just fine. And just like days of old, different countries have different Christian traditions and holidays. They are all part of Christian beliefs and part of Christian communities.....and are celebrated by Christian families all over the world.

 

[Brakelite]

Pagans!!!! Pagan, heathens, and Gentiles. Depending on how accurate and detailed you want your understanding to be of the first 4 centuries, you have to put yourself back in that time and understand their understandings.

No one in the first four centuries consider themselves Pagan and no one called anyone Pagan because it is an English word circa 14th century. The Romans had a Latin word....paganus....which meant rural dwellers. It looks close but the meaning is different. And the Romans did not care about what gods they worshipped. So "pagan" is not a religious category in this time period.....so in this time period what we call Pagans....are the norm and Jews and Christians are not. So they did not have a negative term for the norm.

So what did "they" call them? Well "they" is a matter of perspective. The Romans called Jews and Christians heathens and the Jews and Christians called the Romans heathens. So you can see that labels like this is a matter of perspective.

The scriptures adopted the word Gentiles....with various open ended definitions that mostly means not Jewish. We have to leave it as not Jewish because the people that were converted were called Gentiles and the people that had not been converted were called Gentiles.

So then this happens....Act 13-44-49
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him. Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. The word of the Lord spread through the whole region.

So Paul and Barnabas start devoting their time to the ministry to the Gentiles and many of them are converted and quickly become the majority in Christianity and after the 1st century become the leaders of Christianity.

But what does not happen. And this is very important for the perspective of modern Christians. They have a sort of disconnect negative juggling act going on in their heads.....But we are Gentiles! The vast majority of us are descendants of those that worshipped the Greco-Roman gods. And then some of those that worshipped Greco-Roman gods converted to Christianity. This was a change of the deity that they believed in and worshipped. But that was just the deity, not their cultures, traditions, and celebrations.

The Gentiles initially came from all over and each region and had their own seasonal holidays, traditions, and culture and they did not abandon them. Some of these traditions were actually offensive to early Gentile-Christians so over time these holidays and traditions were tweaked to Christianize them. A lot of these holidays and traditions still exist today and are observed by Christians. Paul nor the Bible went over what the Gentiles would have to stop observing.....so many holidays and traditions.... so if the Bible would have addressed this....it would be obvious. Of course anything to do with false deities would not be practiced....no sacrifices to false deities and Christians were not allowed to eat sacrifices to deities.

Then one of Christianity's most popular traditions that being wedding ceremonies are strictly Gentile.....(or Pagan as people understand it now.) Wedding ceremonies go back several millennia but only Pagan cultures performed wedding ceremonies. Christianity adopted this Pagan tradition after the Gentiles converted and that is a very good thing. I say Pagan tradition because even today there are Pagan traditions and rituals in Christian wedding ceremonies and receptions.... celebrations.....

(The Jewish wedding ceremonies that developed during their time in Persia is a different story.....they were never required and mostly discontinued in the biblical era due to their "Pagan" influence.....long story.)

So when people criticize or condemn each other for practicing these traditions, all that really means is that they are not knowledgeable of how and why all that happened.

Sure a person can say they reject the Gentile-Christians....the Catholic Church.....and the Protestant denominations?
Where does that leave them? Are they going to try being a Jewish-Christian? Some say it, but very few do it. Are they going to give up wedding ceremonies......Jewish-Christians practiced polygamy and concubinage for nearly a thousand years after the biblical era.....mainly because there was no biblical moratorium on the practice....Jewish-Christians considered themselves and extension of Judaism, and it was very much a part of their religious beliefs and culture....Jews with multiple wives were not required to divorce all but one wife to be a Christian....for that reason Paul had to stipulate to be in church administration a man had to be the husband of only one wife.

So the "Christian Church" today with all of it denominations are in fact Gentile-Christians.....and all those Gentile rituals and traditions in Christianity are just fine. And just like days of old, different countries have different Christian traditions and holidays. They are all part of Christian beliefs and part of Christian communities.....and are celebrated by Christian families all over the world.

As I said to BoL, I'm not interested in nit picking over wedding ceremonies, rings, and traditions that the Bible does not specifically condemn. But as I also pointed out, there are some pagan... Read occult, superstition, gentile, spiritualism, idolatry, whatever... Practices bring promoted currently by the Vatican and in one particular encyclical, Laudato Si, as well as cooperating and participating in ceremonies that early Christians would have been horrified at, that are of far greater import than the minutae of adopted traditional cultural trinkets... Things like the nature and identity of who we worship, and the arrogant supplanting of the 4th commandment with a counterfeit, that is so obviously pagan as to defy belief.

 

[Grailhunter]

As I said to BoL, I'm not interested in nit picking over wedding ceremonies, rings, and traditions that the Bible does not specifically condemn. But as I also pointed out, there are some pagan... Read occult, superstition, gentile, spiritualism, idolatry, whatever... Practices bring promoted currently by the Vatican and in one particular encyclical, Laudato Si, as well as cooperating and participating in ceremonies that early Christians would have been horrified at, that are of far greater import than the minutae of adopted traditional cultural trinkets... Things like the nature and identity of who we worship, and the arrogant supplanting of the 4th commandment with a counterfeit, that is so obviously pagan as to defy belief.View attachment 31088

And what I posted was for information. You cannot stop people from not liking each other. You can always find stories out there. The Romans use to say that the Christian bread and wine ritual was really about baking babies in loaves of bread and eating them.

Christianity is a dart board for things you can throw at it and the Catholics might as well be a billboard......and the Vatican is the worst example of the Catholic Church and its people.

Protestants like to point out that the Catholic Church was a merge between Paganism and Christianity....that is a fact to some degree. But it did not start with Emperor Constantine and the Catholic Church......it started with Paul and even Christ. Converted Pagans---Opening up the faith to Pagans....Gentiles made up the majority of Christianity and in just a few years all of it leaders were Gentile. And the Pagans did not stop planting things and other traditions.

You must drink my blood and eat my body.....You can read about the Apostle's reaction to this in John....he lost many of his disciples over this because to the Jews and his disciples, this was strictly and grossly Pagan. And Protests distance themselves from it today....reducing it to crackers and kool-aid. The whole blood element that was in early Christianity and in Catholicism today is offensive to some Protestants. Christianity could be defined as a blood religion, because without Christ's blood, Christianity would be of no effect. But yet some Protestants see that focus on blood as Pagan.

This intolerance lead Protestants to do one of the worst sins ever......fracturing Christ's Church into thousands of factions.....but the Protestants ignore that.....and end up looking at someone planting a tree. Straining at a gnat and swallowing a tree....lol. That is why I say it does not matter what denomination you are, you are living in a glass house....so throwing rocks.....is not a good thing because there is always going to be somebody that will throw a rock at your house.

You, me, and the guy down the street.....we are Gentile-Christians....which means that there are elements of Paganism in our religion. Like you say you do not have a problem with wedding ceremonies.....it is strictly Pagan and still has Pagan rituals and traditions in it. Wedding ceremonies was one of the great things that the Pagans brought into Christianity. The eventual moratorium on Polygamy was another because strangely enough the Pagans considered Polygamy as heathenistic.

So anyway, just remember, when you are throwing those rocks from the porch of your glass house, people can throw things back.

 

[Brakelite]

Sooooo, because Pope Francis wrote an encyclical about environmentalism – YOU believe this to be perverted or “pagan” doctrine??

That’s quite a stretch . . .

Pantheism. God in nature, rather than the God of nature. Environmentalism? No. Climate change...a fraudulent theory being used as a vehicle for squirreling Catholic doctrine into government legislation... Sunday laws... Which our prophet, the one you despise and reject, spoke of clearly 140 years ago at a time such a concept was unimaginable. A union of church and state in America such a short time after the European tyranny of Rome had been abandoned by America's founding fathers was unthinkable. Today however, the evangelical right, with the Vatican cheering in the wings, is actively dismantling the republic and ignoring the likes of Locke, Jefferson, and Madison. Sunday laws, possibly under the guise of a necessary defense against the demise of humanity due to climate disaster, is now seemingly inevitable. Not only is the Pope promoting such globally, but protestant Sunday reform groups are actively lobbying government, b especially in Europe. Ellen White wasn't wrong.

 

[Grailhunter]

So the next topic.....
Ok, so there are elements of Paganism in Christianity......the question is.....where do you draw the line?

And if you are going to oppose some denominations.....which ones? The answer; the ones that can lead people to Hell. A guy can come up with the belief that you can do whatever you want and still go to Heaven or Christ saves everybody no matter what.....that is called a sociopathy. Now from there it depends on what he does....? Join Charles Manson's group? What he does is between him and Christ....but if he convinces others to believe like he does that could lead them to Hell. It is kinda like a virus within Christianity?

I worship with a lot of different denominations.....I think I pick the best ones and the Catholics are one of them. But still my favorite is the Holy Ghost churches. And still yet all of them have false beliefs. But I am not really thinking of that when I am standing with them and worshipping the Lord. As they say, it is what it is and this is what we have today.....denominations of differing beliefs.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pantheism. God in nature, rather than the God of nature. Environmentalism? No. Climate change...a fraudulent theory being used as a vehicle for squirreling Catholic doctrine into government legislation... Sunday laws... Which our prophet, the one you despise and reject, spoke of clearly 140 years ago at a time such a concept was unimaginable. A union of church and state in America such a short time after the European tyranny of Rome had been abandoned by America's founding fathers was unthinkable. Today however, the evangelical right, with the Vatican cheering in the wings, is actively dismantling the republic and ignoring the likes of Locke, Jefferson, and Madison. Sunday laws, possibly under the guise of a necessary defense against the demise of humanity due to climate disaster, is now seemingly inevitable. Not only is the Pope promoting such globally, but protestant Sunday reform groups are actively lobbying government, b especially in Europe. Ellen White wasn't wrong.

Although I don't p[ut a lot of stock in the whole climate change hysteria – it can HARDLY be considered “pantheism”. And although I'm nbot the big proponenet of animal rights - but I don't think St. Francis of Assissi was a "pantheirt" either.
Anyway, it’s just another vehicle for you to push your radical Sabbatarian agenda.

I don’t know how long it’s going to take for you to realize that Jesus fulfilled thew Sabbath (Col. 2:16-17) – but I feel sorry for you that you’re still stick in the shadows of legalism - instead of experiencing the reality that is Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

Although I don't p[ut a lot of stock in the whole climate change hysteria – it can HARDLY be considered “pantheism”

Good on you, and I agree with you... The hysteria surrounding climate change is not pantheism. But Pope Francis' response to it as expressed in his encyclical Laudato Si, could be considered pantheism.
Quote...VI. SACRAMENTAL SIGNS AND THE CELEBRATION OF REST

233. The universe unfolds in God, who fills it completely. Hence, there is a mystical meaning to be found in a leaf, in a mountain trail, in a dewdrop, in a poor person’s face.[159] The ideal is not only to pass from the exterior to the interior to discover the action of God in the soul, but also to discover God in all things. Saint Bonaventure teaches us that “contemplation deepens the more we feel the working of God’s grace within our hearts, and the better we learn to encounter God in creatures outside ourselves”.[160]

And although I'm nbot the big proponenet of animal rights - but I don't think St. Francis of Assissi was a "pantheirt" either.

Not sure.
1. “LAUDATO SI’, mi’ Signore” – “Praise be to you, my Lord”. In the words of this beautiful canticle, Saint Francis of Assisi reminds us that our common home is like a sister with whom we share our life and a beautiful mother who opens her arms to embrace us. “Praise be to you, my Lord, through our Sister, Mother Earth, who sustains and governs us, and who produces various fruit with coloured flowers and herbs”.[1]

2. This sister now cries out to us because of the harm we have inflicted on her by our irresponsible use and abuse of the goods with which God has endowed her.

Anyway, it’s just another vehicle for you to push your radical Sabbatarian agenda

Radical agenda? What is radical, and legalist is the current attempts by the Vatican to legislate a climate Sunday and force the world to obey. Now that's radical. It isn't radical to defend religious liberty... What's radical is opposing it. It isn't radical to obey the 4th commandment as written. What's radical is to imagine God has changed it without any evidence but ones skewed interpretation of Colossians2.

I don’t know how long it’s going to take for you to realize that Jesus fulfilled thew Sabbath (Col. 2:16-17)

He also fulfilled the 6th commandment, Thou shalt not murder. Does that mean we may now ignore that commandment and kill folk?

but I feel sorry for you that you’re still stick in the shadows of legalism - instead of experiencing the reality that is Christ

You have, on this very forum, boldly and correctly defended the NT relevance of God's holy laws as expressed in Exodus 20. Far from the common protestant view that they are no longer binding on Christians, you have declared consistently that the Ten Commandments are still to be obeyed. Until now. The very verse that says Jesus fulfilled the law, applies to all the commandments, not just 9.
Also, your incessant appeal to Colossians 2 in claiming the Sabbath to be a shadow and thus pointing to the future, is without foundation, and is as empty of theological common sense from your lips as it has always been from those Protestants who use the same argument. Yes, there were Sabbaths that were shadows that Jesus fulfilled. They were also feast days intimately linked to the sanctuary service, which along with the priesthood, the Tabernacle and it's furniture, it's feasts and sacrifices, gave Israel a God ordained means and vehicle by which to deal with the sin problem. The Sabbath as instituted in Genesis, was sanctified, made holy, and blessed, before there was an issue with sin... Before there was any need to heal the relationship between man and God, before the Son of God was prophesied of and foretold, and therefore before there were any shadows, types, or anything else that indicated the need of a Savior.
The weekly Sabbath, instituted on the 7th day of creation at is completion before the beginning of the second week, therefore was ever only a memorial. In Deuteronomy, the weekly Sabbath was also there declared by God to be a memorial of salvation. But never ever was the Sabbath a type or shadow.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good on you, and I agree with you... The hysteria surrounding climate change is not pantheism. But Pope Francis' response to it as expressed in his encyclical Laudato Si, could be considered pantheism.
Quote...VI. SACRAMENTAL SIGNS AND THE CELEBRATION OF REST

233. The universe unfolds in God, who fills it completely. Hence, there is a mystical meaning to be found in a leaf, in a mountain trail, in a dewdrop, in a poor person’s face.[159] The ideal is not only to pass from the exterior to the interior to discover the action of God in the soul, but also to discover God in all things. Saint Bonaventure teaches us that “contemplation deepens the more we feel the working of God’s grace within our hearts, and the better we learn to encounter God in creatures outside ourselves”.[160]

Not sure.
1. “LAUDATO SI’, mi’ Signore” – “Praise be to you, my Lord”. In the words of this beautiful canticle, Saint Francis of Assisi reminds us that our common home is like a sister with whom we share our life and a beautiful mother who opens her arms to embrace us. “Praise be to you, my Lord, through our Sister, Mother Earth, who sustains and governs us, and who produces various fruit with coloured flowers and herbs”.[1]

2. This sister now cries out to us because of the harm we have inflicted on her by our irresponsible use and abuse of the goods with which God has endowed her.

Radical agenda? What is radical, and legalist is the current attempts by the Vatican to legislate a climate Sunday and force the world to obey. Now that's radical. It isn't radical to defend religious liberty... What's radical is opposing it. It isn't radical to obey the 4th commandment as written. What's radical is to imagine God has changed it without any evidence but ones skewed interpretation of Colossians2.

He also fulfilled the 6th commandment, Thou shalt not murder. Does that mean we may now ignore that commandment and kill folk?

You have, on this very forum, boldly and correctly defended the NT relevance of God's holy laws as expressed in Exodus 20. Far from the common protestant view that they are no longer binding on Christians, you have declared consistently that the Ten Commandments are still to be obeyed. Until now. The very verse that says Jesus fulfilled the law, applies to all the commandments, not just 9.
Also, your incessant appeal to Colossians 2 in claiming the Sabbath to be a shadow and thus pointing to the future, is without foundation, and is as empty of theological common sense from your lips as it has always been from those Protestants who use the same argument. Yes, there were Sabbaths that were shadows that Jesus fulfilled. They were also great days intimately linked to the sanctuary service, which along with the priesthood, the Tabernacle and it's furniture, it's feasts and sacrifices, gave Israel a God ordained means and vehicle by which to deal with the sin problem. The Sabbath as instituted in Genesis, was sanctified, made holy, and blessed, before there was an issue with sin... Before there was any need to heal the relationship between man and God, before the Son of God was prophesied of and foretold, and therefore before there were any shadows, types, or anything else that indicated the need of a Savior.
The weekly Sabbath, instituted on the 7th day of creation at is completion before the beginning of the second week, therefore was ever only a memorial. In Deuteronomy, the weekly Sabbath was also there declared by God to be a memorial of salvation. But never ever was the Sabbath a type or shadow.

Your false charges of "Pantheism" with regard to LAUDATO SI are pathetic.

You purposely take the poetic language used in this encyclical that harkens back to Francis of Assisi's “Canticle of the Sun” and attribute some sort of pagan message tout. That’s quite a stretch. According to YOU – praising God for the beauty of nature is “Pantheism”.

And speaking of the Commandments – while you’re still stuck in the SHADOW of Christ that was the Sabbath – you don’t seem to have the same reverence for the Commandment against bearing FALSE WITNESS.

And finally – as to the your false statement about the Commandment “Thou shalt not murder” being “fulfilled” – that’s complete nonsense.
The Sabbath HAS been fulfilled according to God’s sacred Word (Col. 2:16-17).

We Christians are waiting for Jesus’s RETURN.
YOU, on the other hand are still waiting for Him to get here . . .

 

[marksman]

A lot to do with it is what you see as the church. The New Testament Church (NTC) gathered together in homes to fellowship, pray, share meals, and to be taught. They did not meet for so called communion.

They had no buildings to meet in and did not raise money for their upkeep. The did not have a "pastor" to run the church. Their main focus was the priesthood of ALL believers, not a select few.

No buildings, no pastors and no tithing so they could get on and do what was important. Love one another, share the gospel and build the church (people).

 

[Brakelite]

And finally – as to the your false statement about the Commandment “Thou shalt not murder” being “fulfilled” – that’s complete nonsense.
The Sabbath HAS been fulfilled according to God’s sacred Word (Col. 2:16-17).

Yes, so you keep claiming, but without a shred of evidence in support of your claim that the weekly Sabbath was being referenced in those verses. As I explained above, (did you read it?) the weekly Sabbath was never instituted as a shadow, as it was blessed and sanctified before sin. There really is no answer to that. You can ignore it, you can deny it, but the truth will ever prevail and your lies shall fall like dust on the side of the road.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, so you keep claiming, but without a shred of evidence in support of your claim that the weekly Sabbath was being referenced in those verses. As I explained above, (did you read it?) the weekly Sabbath was never instituted as a shadow, as it was blessed and sanctified before sin. There really is no answer to that. You can ignore it, you can deny it, but the truth will ever prevail and your lies shall fall like dust on the side of the road.

It absolutely was a shadow (2 Col. 16-17),
And I alrady showed you how it coints to Christ in th Eucharist - the REAL Bread from Heaven (John 6:32-71).

 

[BreadOfLife]

A lot to do with it is what you see as the church. The New Testament Church (NTC) gathered together in homes to fellowship, pray, share meals, and to be taught. They did not meet for so called communion.

They had no buildings to meet in and did not raise money for their upkeep. The did not have a "pastor" to run the church. Their main focus was the priesthood of ALL believers, not a select few.

No buildings, no pastors and no tithing so they could get on and do what was important. Love one another, share the gospel and build the church (people).

This is a childish and unrealistic of the Church.

First of all - of course there were no buldings - because not only was it illeagal to be a Christian back then - they were peersecuted.

Secondly - Jesus never intended for His church to be leaderless.
He appointed his Apostles and their successors to lead His people - and appointed Peter as Head Shepherd in His place (Jojhn 21:15-19).

Finally, make NO mistake - "Breaking of the bread" spoken of in in verses like Luke 24:30, Acts 2:44, Acts 2:46, Acts 20: and 1 Cor. 10:16, was a celebratin of the Eucharist - Communion.

The Early Church was villified by the Romans for this practice, referring to them as "cannibals" for their belief that they were consuming the Body and Blood of their Lord.
Read the 2nd century document, The Octavius of Minicius Felix, where this is detailed.

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest (Lev. 16, Haggai 1:12-14 S).
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Lev. 16).
- The rest of the people were a General priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The General priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

In the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

 

[quietthinker]

It absolutely was a shadow (2 Col. 16-17),
And I alrady showed you how it coints to Christ in th Eucharist - the REAL Bread from Heaven (John 6:32-71).

I know you are representing catholic facts....you say so, no ambiguity however, those 'facts' reveal the misguided and slippery intentions.

 

[Grailhunter]

I know you are representing catholic facts....you say so, no ambiguity however, those 'facts' reveal the misguided and slippery intentions.

So is he misguided even if he is right?
As far as the Sabbath, he gave all the right scriptures for Christians.

 

[quietthinker]

So is he misguided even if he is right?
As far as the Sabbath, he gave all the right scriptures for Christians.

What he is trying to do is nullify an institution given in Eden to sinless man by using scripture out of context.....that is/ are the catholic facts the which the greater majority of Protestants decidedly go along with.