What is the Price Jesus Paid?

[RedFan]

If you have children, then you might relate to this following fictitious analogy:
Your neighbor's child is drowning in a pond, infested with Alligators. You and your only son, are the only two people available to save the drowning child.
You can't swim, but your son can. You agree with your son, that he is the only means by which your neighbor's child can be saved.
Your son dives into the water and rescues the child, but ten feet from shore an Alligator sinks his teeth deep into your son's thigh, tearing away muscle, ligaments, creating an enormous amount of nerve damage, that ultimately causes your son to lose his leg upto his hip.
As a father, is that how you wanted to recieve your son back to you? In the sacrifice of your son, that you both agreed on, what did you sacrifice as the father?
John.3[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I'm not seeing the analogy.

First, if I was omnipotent, my son would not be "the only means by which [my] neighbor's child can be saved." And if I talked my son into agreeing to take the risk of diving in the pond when I had other means to save the victim at my disposal, what does that say about me?

Second, if I knew that my son would be resurrected on the third day, even his death would not be quite the same sacrifice as permanent loss of the son's leg was for the father in your analogy.

Third, the sacrifice your analogy posits was more my son's than mine -- and if he and I "agreed" (interesting choice of words) that he would take the risk of enduring great pain "for the sake of the joy that was set before him," Hebrews 12:2, well, I kept my part of the agreement by "highly exalting" him, Philippians 2:9, so hasn't he gotten the reward he bargained for? And if so, where is the "sacrifice" to me?

 

[Earburner]

I'm not seeing the analogy.

First, if I was omnipotent, my son would not be "the only means by which [my] neighbor's child can be saved." And if I talked my son into agreeing to take the risk of diving in the pond when I had other means to save the victim at my disposal, what does that say about me?

Second, if I knew that my son would be resurrected on the third day, even his death would not be quite the same sacrifice as permanent loss of the son's leg was for the father in your analogy.

Third, the sacrifice your analogy posits was more my son's than mine -- and if he and I "agreed" (interesting choice of words) that he would take the risk of enduring great pain "for the sake of the joy that was set before him," Hebrews 12:2, well, I kept my part of the agreement by "highly exalting" him, Philippians 2:9, so hasn't he gotten the reward he bargained for? And if so, where is the "sacrifice" to me?

By your own words, you have misunderstood my simple analogy, and have purposely misconstrued it for your own way of thinking. You have not yet perceived that the ultimate goal of God the Father and God the Son, is TO SAVE as many as possible of the human race, from the judgment of eternal death.

Edit: Just so that all are clear on my thinking, that goal is called the Age of God's Grace.

 

[Earburner]

In John 19:30, Jesus said, "it is finished," (tetelestai) which is an accounting term meaning "paid in full."
Jesus paid the debt owed by mankind, the debt of sin.

Agreed!
John.17[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

However, what most don't reference or understand is what exactly were the works of God that He gave Jesus to do and "finish", while in the mortality and likeness of our flesh?

The six works of God:
Daniel 9[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6. to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Candidus]

YHWH God has provided a way for us to be delivered from the curse of sin and death by means of his Son, Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that by his death, Jesus provided a ransom. A ransom is the price paid to release someone. The price Jesus paid was the value of his perfect human life. (Matthew 20:28.) When Jesus willingly surrendered his right to everlasting life on earth, he opened the way for Adam and Eve offspring to regain all that Adam and Eve had lost.

Then, where in the Bible does it say "who" was "paid?" "Who" was holding us "ransom?" Where does Matthew 20:28 say that Jesus "paid" anything? If I win a free plane trip to Las Vegas from a radio station, and I don't like flying, then "the price paid" is getting on the plane for me. It comes with a "cost." Did I "pay" anything in a commercial sense? No!

The passage says that He gave His life for "many," which is not "all." If Biblical Atonement is reduced to a literal commercial transaction, then "who" are the beneficiaries of a transaction that is already complete? Nothing can "un-pay" such a transaction, and the Metaphysical Hostage Holder has no power remaining to hold those people prisoners. We are reduced to Gnostic Fatalism, for a completed act of ransom payment in the past has set Fate for all future. We can do nothing. Requiring faith or belief is unnecessary and a denial of a "finished" ransom, and is counter-fatalism, for no condition can possibly add to the ransom payment already made.

Why would God save by a ransom payment in a literal commercial sense, when it is mentioned so little in Scripture, and by-pass Sacrifice which is God's means of reconciliation all throughout Scripture from the beginning? For those that insist on Atonement being a literal commercial transaction, the inevitable outcome of it is non-negotiable.

 

[Candidus]

Agreed!
John.17[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

However, what most don't reference or understand is what exactly were the works of God that He gave Jesus to do and "finish", while in the mortality and likeness of our flesh?

The six works of God:
Daniel 9[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6. to anoint the most Holy.

Notice that only in the past 50 years has any expositor come up with "paid in full." No translation of the Bible (credible one) since the time the letters and histories were written, ever translated "it is finished" as "paid in full."

The work of Christ in Atonement was "finished" at His death, burial and resurrection. No one's salvation is "Finished" or complete... or in eisegetical terms... "paid in full."

 

[Candidus]

In John 19:30, Jesus said, "it is finished," (tetelestai) which is an accounting term meaning "paid in full."
Jesus paid the debt owed by mankind, the debt of sin.

Then you need another Savior, don't you!

The wages of sin is death... eternal separation from God. That is the price that must be paid, or it is not paid at all!

Unless Jesus is in Hell as we speak, separated from God for all eternity, the "wages" of your sins are not "paid for." Jesus apparently failed according to the logic of retributive justice. If God accepts anything less than the entire "full payment" He demands of you and me, and He accepts the work of Christ as acceptable in His eyes, then He is not saving anyone by payment, but in His mercy and grace, for the "cost" is an acceptable substitute for payment.

Tetelestai in John 19:30 does not mean "paid in full" any more than your wife is to stand at attention and salute you when you enter the room because "obey" is a military term. (Ephesians 5:22-24). And this obedience is absolute and any physical or mental abuse from the husband for failure is, by military terms, completely deserved and ordained by God.

 

[mailmandan]

Then you need another Savior, don't you!

The wages of sin is death... eternal separation from God. That is the price that must be paid, or it is not paid at all!

Unless Jesus is in Hell as we speak, separated from God for all eternity, the "wages" of your sins are not "paid for." Jesus apparently failed according to the logic of retributive justice. If God accepts anything less than the entire "full payment" He demands of you and me, and He accepts the work of Christ as acceptable in His eyes, then He is not saving anyone by payment, but in His mercy and grace, for the "cost" is an acceptable substitute for payment.

Tetelestai in John 19:30 does not mean "paid in full" any more than your wife is to stand at attention and salute you when you enter the room because "obey" is a military term. (Ephesians 5:22-24). And this obedience is absolute and any physical or mental abuse from the husband for failure is, by military terms, completely deserved and ordained by God.

 

[Taken]

What is the Price Jesus Paid?
OP ^

* The Price Of BODILY Death required BEFORE a man can RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.
(Accept Jesus’ Bodily Death, become bodily crucified with Him...that Body of mans crucifixion with Jesus, accepted...that man can receive his Salvation)

* The Price Of FORGIVENESS, has always been PURE BLOOD of an unblemished body. Oops, mankind does not have PURE BLOOD to offer in exchange for Forgiveness.

* Forgiveness of What?
* Sins?
* What Sins?
* Sins established under Mosaic Law.
* Sins of Corrupting ones soul.
* Sins of Disbelief in God.
* Sins of Disbelief in Jesus is the Christ.

* Forgiveness of Sins under Mosaic Law?
Applies to Jews, under the Law.
Does not Apply to Gentiles, NOT Ever under the Law.

* Corrupting of ones soul?
Applies to all men....Resolved when a man IS Saved..
Ie the soul is restored..(Pss 23:3)

* Disbelief in God?
Applies to all men....Resolved when a man Confesses True Heartful Belief IN God

* Disbelief in Jesus is the Christ?
Applies to all men....Resolved when a man Confesses True Heartful Belief IN Christ IS the begotten Son of God.

* Jesus’ BLOOD is PURE, acceptable for Forgiveness of a MANS SINS, WHEN such man Accepts Jesus’ Blood for the mans own debt, AND the man Testifies with his heartful word, He believes and accepts, the Offering of Jesus’ Body and Jesus’ Pure Blood.

* Any such man (Tribe, Jew, Gentile), who heartfully testifies of his belief, his acceptance, IS the same WHOM ALL of his SIN Against the Lord God, IS once and forever Forgiven, Saved, Quickened ........AND KEPT FOREVER “with” the Lord God Almighty, Exclusively “BY, through, of” the Power/Spirit of the Lord God Almighty....
WHO IS Christ, WHOSE Spirit dwells “WITH” that man Forever....in this life and the next eternal life.

 

[Taken]

Then you need another Savior, don't you!

No.
Death, crucified body of man, WITH Jesus, is a paid debt of the body of sin.

Jesus’ Blood, given, Man accepting Jesus’ Pure Blood for payment of debt forgiveness.

A man Accepting Belief in God, In Christ Jesus, does so by the mans own word of Heartful Confession.

( As God taught men to TEST all things...so also does God. God searches a mans Heart that IF his Confession be True....God thereafter is Faithful and True TO GIVE that man What God Promised...
Forgiveness and Salvation and Quickening and Keeping by, through, of the Power of God.)

THAT ^ is what Jesus was sent to accomplish.
THAT ^ is what Jesus accomplished.
THAT ^ is what Jesus said, It is finished.

MORE shall occur. Men are still deciding, to believe, to confess or not, to keep believing, to deflect, to Become forgiven, Become Saved, Becom Quickened, Become Kept by the Power of God, or not....
La, la, la, la, la, life on earth continues.

AND with Pryor knowledge, God is getting Angry. Observing men of the earth promoting and exalting corruption. Gods Anger shall turn to Wrath. God SHALL “without the day or hour known to mankind”, rains down from Heaven His Tribulations UPON the Earth and it’s Occupants.

Bummer...Oochie, Ouchie. 21 specific Tribulations, each increasing in severity.
WHO is excepted? He who Believed in God and Christ Jesus AND confessed his true Heartful Beliefs. < Rapture.
WHO shall experience in part or whole, some or all of the 21 Tribulation sent down from God in Heaven?
ALL those who DID not BELIEVE in God and/or in Christ Jesus and/or DID not confess their true heartful Beliefs.

And what about THEM ^ DURING Gods Tribulation?
Get to getting...decide, Confess, Be willing to be KILLED “for” their Belief...(fire, burned, starved, beheaded, shot, earthquakes, lava, biting diseased insects....pretty gruesome, scary, painful)

More separations, More Tribulations, More clean up....UNTIL what was declared accomplished and FINISHED, becomes further accomplished and declared DONE.

Nothing pretty upon the face of the Earth for mankind, DURING Gods Great Tribulation. (Lest you be, one of 144,000 virgin Tribesmen sent to earth Sealed in your forehead with Gods Seal.) Which if that were you, you would not be on earth now.

So either you BECOME CONVERTED, according to Gods ORDER and WAY....or IF you be alive, on some unknown Day God shall send down His Tribulation from Heaven...You risk a Terrible experience, unlike the world has ever seen, since the day of Gods Great Flood.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Notice that you could not come up with paid/payment!

Psh! To purchase a toaster means I paid for it. An argument over whether to purchase something means you payed for it would be ridiculous, wouldn’t it…? Of course though…you could pay by credit. But I don’t think Jesus had an American Express…

 

[bbyrd009]

The flip side of this is, TO WHOM was the price paid? Satan, as a ransom? God, to square a debt that He could not (or would not) otherwise forgive? Someone else?

bet this got dropped like a hot potato lol

I'm not seeing the analogy.

First, if I was omnipotent, my son would not be "the only means by which [my] neighbor's child can be saved." And if I talked my son into agreeing to take the risk of diving in the pond when I had other means to save the victim at my disposal, what does that say about me?

Second, if I knew that my son would be resurrected on the third day, even his death would not be quite the same sacrifice as permanent loss of the son's leg was for the father in your analogy.

Third, the sacrifice your analogy posits was more my son's than mine -- and if he and I "agreed" (interesting choice of words) that he would take the risk of enduring great pain "for the sake of the joy that was set before him," Hebrews 12:2, well, I kept my part of the agreement by "highly exalting" him, Philippians 2:9, so hasn't he gotten the reward he bargained for? And if so, where is the "sacrifice" to me?

it all comes unraveled when you pick at it just a little bit, huh?
its supposed to, apparently
No son of man may die for another’s sins has not been annulled, imo…of course now youll hafta go…somewhere else for learning, etc i guess, jacob

 

[Earburner]

Notice that only in the past 50 years has any expositor come up with "paid in full." No translation of the Bible (credible one) since the time the letters and histories were written, ever translated "it is finished" as "paid in full."

The work of Christ in Atonement was "finished" at His death, burial and resurrection. No one's salvation is "Finished" or complete... or in eisegetical terms... "paid in full."

So then, through your faith in Jesus as your Savior, you still view yourself as being under God's condemnation.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Then, where in the Bible does it say "who" was "paid?" "Who" was holding us "ransom?" Where does Matthew 20:28 say that Jesus "paid" anything? If I win a free plane trip to Las Vegas from a radio station, and I don't like flying, then "the price paid" is getting on the plane for me. It comes with a "cost." Did I "pay" anything in a commercial sense? No!

The passage says that He gave His life for "many," which is not "all." If Biblical Atonement is reduced to a literal commercial transaction, then "who" are the beneficiaries of a transaction that is already complete? Nothing can "un-pay" such a transaction, and the Metaphysical Hostage Holder has no power remaining to hold those people prisoners. We are reduced to Gnostic Fatalism, for a completed act of ransom payment in the past has set Fate for all future. We can do nothing. Requiring faith or belief is unnecessary and a denial of a "finished" ransom, and is counter-fatalism, for no condition can possibly add to the ransom payment already made.

Why would God save by a ransom payment in a literal commercial sense, when it is mentioned so little in Scripture, and by-pass Sacrifice which is God's means of reconciliation all throughout Scripture from the beginning? For those that insist on Atonement being a literal commercial transaction, the inevitable outcome of it is non-negotiable.

The ransom is payed to all mankind so that all who respond to that ransom gift can be forgiven. God doesn't force all mankind to accept the gift that YHWH God has given mankind. YHWH God isn't a dictator.
Death came through a man, that man being the first Adam. The resurrection of the dead also comes through a man, the last Adam Jesus Christ. For just as in the first Adam all are dying, so also in the last Adam, Jesus Christ, all will be made alive.(1Corinthians 15:21,22)
Jesus’ sacrifice is “a corresponding ransom for all” meaning all those who take the steps necessary to benefit from it.(1 Timothy 2:5, 6)

So the ransom sacrifice is a gift to all mankind, but each individual among mankind must choose to accept that gift. It's true that not all accept that gift, but it's still a gift that was given to all mankind.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The ransom is payed to all mankind so that all who respond to that ransom gift can be forgiven.

A ransom is not paid TO hostages who have been taken. A ransom is paid TO a hostage taker. Just thinking…

 

[Earburner]

A ransom is not paid TO hostages who have been taken. A ransom is paid TO a hostage taker. Just thinking…

Actually, Christ's blood was required by God the Father to be shed for the Father's sake as well as ours.
Heb.9[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Without it, God the Father could not permanently dwell within us, and of course if He couldn't, we also wouldn't be able or allowed to receive His Gift of Eternal Life, which is Himself.

 

[RedFan]

By your own words, you have misunderstood my simple analogy, and have purposely misconstrued it for your own way of thinking. You have not yet perceived that the ultimate goal of God the Father and God the Son, is TO SAVE as many as possible of the human race, from the judgment of eternal death.

I guess I must have misunderstood your simple analogy. Sorry. I'm not the brightest guy on the planet, although I do my best. But "purposely misconstrued" it? That's nonsense!

I totally agree that "the ultimate goal of God the Father and God the Son, is TO SAVE as many as possible of the human race, from the judgment of eternal death." (I can't imagine how you infer the opposite from my post.)

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

A ransom is not paid TO hostages who have been taken. A ransom is paid TO a hostage taker. Just thinking…

The scriptures show that Jesus Christ sacrifice was a ransom sacrifice. You want argue with scripture that's on you.

Ransom definition- A price paid to provide a release from captivity, punishment, suffering, sin, or even an obligation. The price was not always monetary.

 

[Nancy]

Some say He paid the price of death for past sins.

Other think He paid the price for judgment of sinning.

The one says, He paid the price of death, that we could be forgiven of past sins.

The other says, He paid the price of judgment for sinning, that we could not be judged for sinning present and future.

"What is the Price Jesus Paid?"
Everything.

 

[Earburner]

I guess I must have misunderstood your simple analogy. Sorry. I'm not the brightest guy on the planet, although I do my best. But "purposely misconstrued" it? That's nonsense!

I totally agree that "the ultimate goal of God the Father and God the Son, is TO SAVE as many as possible of the human race, from the judgment of eternal death." (I can't imagine how you infer the opposite from my post.)

I wasn't inferring anything, I was just going to "the big picture" of God's plan for our salvation.

To keep it simple, the entirety of it all, ever since Adam lost the hope for eternal life, bringing eternal death upon all of us, God has been working and suffering over us, hoping that every person could be saved and restored back to Himself.
Why? His main goal has always been that He who is only Spirit, desires to dwell WITHIN US FOREVER. Unfortunately, He has had to work over and against our own self directed wills, which is 100% sold over to death and destruction.

Therefore, in order for us to have Him to dwell within us forever, our righteousness must exceed every form of man's righteousness, of which doesn't even come close to His. His Righteousness could only come through the shed blood of the Righteousness of God the Son. By our faith in Him, and His sacrificial blood, are we then made holy and acceptable to God the Father, for the indwelling of Himself within us, aka His Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 4:7
1 John 5:12
God the Father needed the sacrifice of Jesus as much as we did.

 

[Ziggy]

Did Jesus not simply open the door/gate to the Tree of Life which had been closed as a result of the disobedience in Eden?

Exo 15:16 Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.


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