What is the Price Jesus Paid?

[Ziggy]

Who did the God of the Israelites "purchase" them from? Obviously from some God that is greater than their God, for who holds such power over the God of Israel? Just as I do not pray to Mary to communicate with God, why wouldn't I just cut out the Middle-man?

Or, as a figure of speech can we say that Israel was is in a dilemma, and that they are separated from the very God that created them and was in Covenant with them. They could not deliver themselves and God intervened. When this passage speaks of purchasing and redeeming the Israelites, God did not 'pay' Pharoah anything except pain and suffering. The symbol or Passover is that when God saw the blood, He passed over their house. The imagery is not that God sent a real nice sheep to Pharaoh and he accepted a payment and released them from their bondage.

Who did the God of the Israelites "purchase" them from?
Basically themselves.
Isa 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Pharoah got judgment. It was Pharoah who went around telling all the midwives to kill the boy children.
Not all the midwives agreed. Some hid the children. And so it was with Moses.
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.
Then when Moses came to free the people, and Pharoah agreed to letting them go, that's when Vengence is mine saith the Lord was repaid.
The destruction of the Egyptian firstborn was in response to Pharoah killing all the Israelite boys.
The wrath of God was the pestilence that would go through Egypt. And only those who covered themselves in the blood of the lambs, were passed over.

But how did they get in that predicament to begin with?
Joseph's brothers sold Joseph into slavery.
Gen 37:23 And it came to pass, when Joseph was come unto his brethren, that they stript Joseph out of his coat, his coat of many colours that was on him;
Gen 37:28 Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Not only did they sell Joseph into slavery, they all went down to Egypt during a famine to live off the good of the land.
They didn't trust God.
But God always knows..
And so he put Joseph there to save them.
Not so much by giving them food, but making them admit their guilt and ask for forgiveness.

They should of gone back to Canaan at some point, but after awhile they chose to stay.

So they sold their souls to Egypt instead of trusting in God their savior.
And after some time, when Pharoah began killing his children, God went to take them back.

What was the cost of the purchase?
hmm

Hugs

 

[Taken]

I understand that this is what you believe, yet where does the Bible say this? It doesn't! You can accept a payment all day long, but it has to exist in reality for it to have any effect. I can buy a lottery ticket and "believe" that I am a Millionaire... but if my numbers do not match reality, I was never a Millionaire.

Heb 9:
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

According to the law, and Under the Law, men Yearly offered a pure animal, (not having had sex, or having birthed another animal)...and offered it’s body AND BLOOD, for the forgiveness of their past year’s sins.
The BLOOD was for the forgiveness of SIN against God.
The BODY was offered for temporary PAYMENT of having committed SIN against God.

THOSE ^ were temporary, required YEARLY repeating.

Jesus arrived,
Gave His BODY for the PAYMENT of a man’s BODILY Life required to become DEAD, (His Payment)
Gave His BLOOD for the FORGIVENESS of a man’s BODILY Life FORGIVENESS.

WHAT Jesus DID, was His Service unto God, FOR the benefit OF ALL MEN.
ACCEPTING WHAT Jesus DID, is the option and freewill of every individual man.

Sure, you can know the Lottery Commission offers you an opportunity to WIN a prize.
Sure, you can BUY a ticket, and hope your numbers chosen will WIN.
Sure, you can REDEEM your ticket and collect your prize.
** No, the Commission will NOT come to your door to FORCE or MAKE SURE you REDEEM your prize
** AND...for sure, IF you do NOT REDEEM your ticket BY THE DEADLINE, you will forfeit receiving the prize that was established FOR YOU.
There is a CAVEAT.
“IF” you turn in a ticket that did not claim a prize, that ticket is dumped into a general collection, and a drawing are made from that group for a lessor prize. And still you will have to collect/redeem before the deadline or you forfeit the prize.

Jesus has already ESTABLISH for every single individual, His body given unto Death, FOR the benefit of a mans required bodily Death.
Jesus has already ESTABLISHED for every single individual, His blood given, FOR the benefit of a mans necessary required bodily Forgiveness.
** No, the Lord Jesus will NOT come to you to FORCE or MAKE SURE you REDEEM your Forgiveness, Saving of your soul, or Quickening of your spirit.
** AND...for sure, IF you do NOT REDEEM your Offering BY THE DEADLINE, you will forfeit receiving the prize that was established FOR YOU...(according to Gods ORDER and WAY)...which IS without SUFFERING Gods Tribulation and Wrath.

There is a CAVEAT.
“IF” during Gods Tribulation and Wrath...you THEN elect to ACCEPT Gods Forgiveness, Gods saving of your soul, Gods quickening of your spirit...YOU WILL suffer a physical death...(that can be any number of horrific manners; starved to death, burned to death, beaten down by earthquake eruptions, beheaded, tortured, painfully diseased, etc..)

Christ Jesus’ Offering to ALL men, HAS already been PAID by Jesus’ Blood & Body.
There IS a Deadline, for every individual to AGREE, RECEIVE His Offering, BEFORE the DATE expires, the DOOR is CLOSED, the RECEIVING is forfeited.

It is already KNOWN, when the BODY dies so also does the BLOOD die.

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

ACCOMPLISHED ^^

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified (in context: we who have ACCEPTED) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[PinSeeker]

Yet, unless you believe that getting "saved" is merely waking up and realizing that you have always been saved, then the false analogy that you make is exposed as the inconsistency it is. No amount of men's bad logic makes a statement 'Biblical."

No offense, Candidus, but this doesn't even make sense. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the point you're trying to make is... of if you are even making one at all, really. At any rate:

Jesus accomplished the redemption of some on the cross, meaning it is finished, just as He said, and so His work ~ His sacrifice; He is the Lamb of God ~ is complete in sufficiency to accomplish the redemption of God's elect. What remains is the application to individuals, in which God, according to His will and because of His mercy, justifies individuals in spite of their sinfulness ~ gives them new birth by His Holy Spirit, thereby giving them a new heart, putting a new spirit within them, removing the heart of stone from their flesh and giving them a heart of flesh, and putting His Spirit within them, and causing them to walk in His statutes and carefully obey His rules. From that point, He is their God, and they are clothed with the righteousness of Christ. But this is only the beginning of God's work in us as believers. In a real sense, we are both saved from that point and being saved. But, as Paul says, He Who began a good work in us will ~ will ~ bring it to completion at the day of Christ. Thanks be to God.

Inconsistency? Of course not. But call it what you will. God, in the fulness of time, will take care of it as He pleases.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Earburner]

Why? Because I don't believe a man-made theory that is not supported by Scripture? That I cannot believe that there is "No condemnation for those in Christ Jesus?" That a Bible that does not teach that Atonement is a commercial payment believes Romans 8:1?

Are you saying that the words of our Lord Jesus Christ are a man made theory?
Specifically,
John.3[18] He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 8:9

 

[bbyrd009]

Then you need another Savior, don't you!

The wages of sin is death... eternal separation from God. That is the price that must be paid, or it is not paid at all!

Unless Jesus is in Hell as we speak, separated from God for all eternity, the "wages" of your sins are not "paid for." Jesus apparently failed according to the logic of retributive justice. If God accepts anything less than the entire "full payment" He demands of you and me, and He accepts the work of Christ as acceptable in His eyes, then He is not saving anyone by payment, but in His mercy and grace, for the "cost" is an acceptable substitute for payment.

Tetelestai in John 19:30 does not mean "paid in full" any more than your wife is to stand at attention and salute you when you enter the room because "obey" is a military term. (Ephesians 5:22-24). And this obedience is absolute and any physical or mental abuse from the husband for failure is, by military terms, completely deserved and ordained by God.

oops

it eventually becomes clear what it is finished means…i guess along about the time why have You forsaken Me is understood?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yet, unless you believe that getting "saved" is merely waking up and realizing that you have always been saved, then the false analogy that you make is exposed as the inconsistency it is. No amount of men's bad logic makes a statement 'Biblical."

hopefully you understand that you are tilting at windmills there, and your posts, while, pure gold, will only be useful to posterity, other readers, later
great stuff though imo, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you saying that the words of our Lord Jesus Christ are a man made theory?

wadr i think he is saying that you have a chosen an interpretation that suits you, and possibly not the one that is most beneficial; basically like choosing “Paul said ‘to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord’” or similar

so in a sense yes, you may have made the words into a man made theory, possibly; isnt this what we all do, first? Get taken in by a compelling concept? No shame in that imo

 

[bbyrd009]

So, when one believes their 'theories' more than the Word of God, the simple dismissal of this fact is relegated to Mystery as "proof?"

If you do not accept what I believe as being Biblical, then I can slap down the "Mystery Card" and declare that my inconsistencies and lack of Biblical sanction are justified?

How would your inability to find what you believe be validated by an appeal to mystery any more than I could use such an argument as proof of what I am saying? You don't accept what I am saying? So..,
"Isaiah 55:8-9
[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

I proved you wrong!

narf

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This is a self-contradiction in meaning. You say that a literal ransom was paid, and that somehow a payment made 2,000 years ago, it is finished... so how is salvation contingent on something we do today? I thought it was "paid!" If it was "paid," then justice is satisfied, there is nothing left to forgive! "Whoever" was "paid" (no Bible verse tells us, because there was not literal commercial payment) got their pound of flesh and is incapable of grace and mercy unless that are paid off first.

So, we are not saved by grace through faith as Scripture teaches, but we are saved by payment. If mercy or grace are still required, then it was not "finished" or complete on the Cross.

If you do not accept what the scriptures say about the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ that it was a ransom sacrifice, that he sacrificed his eternal life as a human. That Jesus did this to buy back eternal life and paradise earth for humanity then you will not be saved. This ransom sacrifice is a gift to humanity. No human from the offspring of Adam and Eve could do this. It had to be a human who was in the likeness of the first human Adam. When God created Adam, God didn't create him with sin in his flesh, meaning Adam didn't have a sinful nature,. He was without spot or blemish when God created him. But he lost being that unspotted and unblemished human and so when he and his wife produced children they were born with a sinful nature because Adam had lost that unspotted and unblemished person he was when created. So all Adam and Eve's offspring would be born with a sinful nature because they were born with spots and blemishes.

 

[Candidus]

oops

it eventually becomes clear what it is finished means…i guess along about the time why have You forsaken Me is understood?

What becomes clear is many do not believe the Full Divinity of Jesus Christ.

 

[Candidus]

Heb 9:
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

According to the law, and Under the Law, men Yearly offered a pure animal, (not having had sex, or having birthed another animal)...and offered it’s body AND BLOOD, for the forgiveness of their past year’s sins.
The BLOOD was for the forgiveness of SIN against God.
The BODY was offered for temporary PAYMENT of having committed SIN against God.

THOSE ^ were temporary, required YEARLY repeating.

Jesus arrived,
Gave His BODY for the PAYMENT of a man’s BODILY Life required to become DEAD, (His Payment)
Gave His BLOOD for the FORGIVENESS of a man’s BODILY Life FORGIVENESS.

WHAT Jesus DID, was His Service unto God, FOR the benefit OF ALL MEN.
ACCEPTING WHAT Jesus DID, is the option and freewill of every individual man.

Sure, you can know the Lottery Commission offers you an opportunity to WIN a prize.
Sure, you can BUY a ticket, and hope your numbers chosen will WIN.
Sure, you can REDEEM your ticket and collect your prize.
** No, the Commission will NOT come to your door to FORCE or MAKE SURE you REDEEM your prize
** AND...for sure, IF you do NOT REDEEM your ticket BY THE DEADLINE, you will forfeit receiving the prize that was established FOR YOU.
There is a CAVEAT.
“IF” you turn in a ticket that did not claim a prize, that ticket is dumped into a general collection, and a drawing are made from that group for a lessor prize. And still you will have to collect/redeem before the deadline or you forfeit the prize.

Jesus has already ESTABLISH for every single individual, His body given unto Death, FOR the benefit of a mans required bodily Death.
Jesus has already ESTABLISHED for every single individual, His blood given, FOR the benefit of a mans necessary required bodily Forgiveness.
** No, the Lord Jesus will NOT come to you to FORCE or MAKE SURE you REDEEM your Forgiveness, Saving of your soul, or Quickening of your spirit.
** AND...for sure, IF you do NOT REDEEM your Offering BY THE DEADLINE, you will forfeit receiving the prize that was established FOR YOU...(according to Gods ORDER and WAY)...which IS without SUFFERING Gods Tribulation and Wrath.

There is a CAVEAT.
“IF” during Gods Tribulation and Wrath...you THEN elect to ACCEPT Gods Forgiveness, Gods saving of your soul, Gods quickening of your spirit...YOU WILL suffer a physical death...(that can be any number of horrific manners; starved to death, burned to death, beaten down by earthquake eruptions, beheaded, tortured, painfully diseased, etc..)

Christ Jesus’ Offering to ALL men, HAS already been PAID by Jesus’ Blood & Body.
There IS a Deadline, for every individual to AGREE, RECEIVE His Offering, BEFORE the DATE expires, the DOOR is CLOSED, the RECEIVING is forfeited.

It is already KNOWN, when the BODY dies so also does the BLOOD die.

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

ACCOMPLISHED ^^

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified (in context: we who have ACCEPTED) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Glory to God,
Taken

Quite the diatribe that has nothing to do with the issue of payment in Scripture. It appears to me that when you cannot find payment in Scripture, you throw concepts and unrelated Scripture passages against the wall to see if anything will stick.

No passage in Scripture correlates sacrifice with payment. Sacrifice is not buying off God anymore that it would be scriptural to throw a virgin into a volcano so God is not angry. "The BODY was offered for temporary PAYMENT of having committed SIN against God."

Where in Scripture is this said? Who was "paid" according to Scripture?

 

[Candidus]

Who did the God of the Israelites "purchase" them from?
Basically themselves.
Isa 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Pharoah got judgment. It was Pharoah who went around telling all the midwives to kill the boy children.
Not all the midwives agreed. Some hid the children. And so it was with Moses.
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.
Then when Moses came to free the people, and Pharoah agreed to letting them go, that's when Vengence is mine saith the Lord was repaid.
The destruction of the Egyptian firstborn was in response to Pharoah killing all the Israelite boys.
The wrath of God was the pestilence that would go through Egypt. And only those who covered themselves in the blood of the lambs, were passed over.

But how did they get in that predicament to begin with?
Joseph's brothers sold Joseph into slavery.
Gen 37:23 And it came to pass, when Joseph was come unto his brethren, that they stript Joseph out of his coat, his coat of many colours that was on him;
Gen 37:28 Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Not only did they sell Joseph into slavery, they all went down to Egypt during a famine to live off the good of the land.
They didn't trust God.
But God always knows..
And so he put Joseph there to save them.
Not so much by giving them food, but making them admit their guilt and ask for forgiveness.

They should of gone back to Canaan at some point, but after awhile they chose to stay.

So they sold their souls to Egypt instead of trusting in God their savior.
And after some time, when Pharoah began killing his children, God went to take them back.

What was the cost of the purchase?
hmm

Hugs

"Cost" is what is inferred and not "payment." I see it as straining to absurdity to say that people are purchased 'from themselves.' What did God "pay" them to "purchase" them... "from themselves?" In order to be redeemed from slavery, there must be a slave-holder. Being "redeemed" out of Slavery as in this case, absolutely does not have a "payment" to accomplish it. How was the release gained? By God forcing it through pain and sorrow upon Pharaoh to force a release, and then protecting the Israelites as they departed. They were in slavery to Pharaoh and God "paid" him nothing to redeem them! This is quite clear.

There is no commercial payment in Atonement in Scripture. The way we use "paid" in English is broad, so it is a matter of semantics to clarify in which way one desires to use the term. What is problematic in my view is that many people use "paid" in a proper sense of "cost," and then apply the logical outcome of commercial payment in their applications elsewhere.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you do not accept what the scriptures say about the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ that it was a ransom sacrifice, that he sacrificed his eternal life as a human. That Jesus did this to buy back eternal life and paradise earth for humanity then you will not be saved. This ransom sacrifice is a gift to humanity. No human from the offspring of Adam and Eve could do this. It had to be a human who was in the likeness of the first human Adam. When God created Adam, God didn't create him with sin in his flesh, meaning Adam didn't have a sinful nature,. He was without spot or blemish when God created him. But he lost being that unspotted and unblemished human and so when he and his wife produced children they were born with a sinful nature because Adam had lost that unspotted and unblemished person he was when created. So all Adam and Eve's offspring would be born with a sinful nature because they were born with spots and blemishes.

i hope you start scratching at that just a tiny little bit someday barn, that you might see how it falls apart, as it is meant to

 

[bbyrd009]

Quite the diatribe that has nothing to do with the issue of payment in Scripture. It appears to me that when you cannot find payment in Scripture, you throw concepts and unrelated Scripture passages against the wall to see if anything will stick.

No passage in Scripture correlates sacrifice with payment. Sacrifice is not buying off God anymore that it would be scriptural to throw a virgin into a volcano so God is not angry. "The BODY was offered for temporary PAYMENT of having committed SIN against God."

Where in Scripture is this said? Who was "paid" according to Scripture?

if you ever get a reply to this could you tag me, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

"Cost" is what is inferred and not "payment." I see it as straining to absurdity to say that people are purchased 'from themselves.' What did God "pay" them to "purchase" them... "from themselves?" In order to be redeemed from slavery, there must be a slave-holder. Being "redeemed" out of Slavery as in this case, absolutely does not have a "payment" to accomplish it. How was the release gained? By God forcing it through pain and sorrow upon Pharaoh to force a release, and then protecting the Israelites as they departed. They were in slavery to Pharaoh and God "paid" him nothing to redeem them! This is quite clear.

There is no commercial payment in Atonement in Scripture. The way we use "paid" in English is broad, so it is a matter of semantics to clarify in which way one desires to use the term. What is problematic in my view is that many people use "paid" in a proper sense of "cost," and then apply the logical outcome of commercial payment in their applications elsewhere.

this flawed human concept is even embedded in the parable of the pearl, i think
well disguised, but still there, even obvious when you contemplate it for a while

 

[Taken]

I understand that this is what you believe, yet where does the Bible say this? It doesn't! You can accept a payment all day long, but it has to exist in reality for it to have any effect. I can buy a lottery ticket and "believe" that I am a Millionaire... but if my numbers do not match reality, I was never a Millionaire.

This is a self-contradiction in meaning. You say that a literal ransom was paid, and that somehow a payment made 2,000 years ago, it is finished... so how is salvation contingent on something we do today? I thought it was "paid!" If it was "paid," then justice is satisfied, there is nothing left to forgive! "Whoever" was "paid" (no Bible verse tells us, because there was not literal commercial payment) got their pound of flesh and is incapable of grace and mercy unless that are paid off first.

So, we are not saved by grace through faith as Scripture teaches, but we are saved by payment. If mercy or grace are still required, then it was not "finished" or complete on the Cross.

A seed determines what a thing shall be.
What ever KIND of seed exists, it shall reproduce its same KIND of thing.

Every naturally born man-KIND of thing is from a corrupt seed.
A corrupt man-KIND of thing, IS corrupt Because it is AGAINST God.

Every corrupt man-KIND of thing AGAINST God IS naturally Born “owing” to their “creator and maker”, a “payment” to “pay” their “DEBT” for “BEING” Against their “creator and maker”.

Tough, a mans natural birth was not his own choosing.
God created and made, the first man-KIND thing “very good”.
The first man-KIND of thing, chose to go AGAINST God.
Bummer. All the first mans seed only reproduced Corrupt “offsprings”.
And “the corrupt offsprings” continued.

Bummer, naturally born with a DEBT to your creator and maker.
And Bummer, that DEBT requires PAYMENT.
And Bummer, that PAYMENT IS YOUR BLOOD.
And Bummer, Your BLOOD, IS the Life of your “corrupt” Body.

Against God, IS Sin.
Payment to God FOR Sin, IS Death of the thing that Sinned Against God
Payment is the wage, the cost, of settling a DEBT owed.

It is a given. ALL man-Kind of things; shall pay the Debt.

Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Rom 6:[23a] For the wages of sin is death;

“A” Caveat. The Offering of “A Gift.”

Rom 6: [23 b]
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The offering of “A GIFT”, is the Offering of Jesus’ Body, Jesus’ Blood, to PAY your DEBT FOR YOU....TEMPORARILY....WHILE a man remains ALIVE in his own Flesh Body.

(The ACCEPTANCE of Gods Offering THROUGH Jesus’ Body, OF Gods Power and Wisdom and Seed (Who is Christ), IS expressly every individual manKIND of things’ own Freewill to ACCEPT or REJECT.)

God Provided the Offering. The Offering was MADE, GIVEN, ONCE, and suffices, from that Day 2,000+ years ago, forward FOR any ManKIND thing UNTIL the Day, God Choose to END the Corruption of this Earth and it’s inhabitants.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

No one requires you or anyone else to ACCEPT Gods Offering.

You reveal, your thinking is to challenge Spiritual things with Carnal thinking and Carnal understanding.

Gods Offering through Christ the Lord Jesus, IS a Spiritual Offering.
Once an individual Agrees to Receive Gods Offering (according TO Gods Order and Way), it is an Agreement Accomplish-ED, between that ONE man and the Lord God Almighty.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

i hope you start scratching at that just a tiny little bit someday barn, that you might see how it falls apart, as it is meant to

It hasn't and doesn't fall apart because it's the truth, the truth that the world of mankind as a whole has refused to accept. But those who wish salvation must accept the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ because there is no other way of salvation that the True God YHWH has provided.

 

[savedbygrace1]

Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb9:25&26

 

[bbyrd009]

It hasn't and doesn't fall apart because it's the truth, the truth that the world of mankind as a whole has refused to accept. But those who wish salvation must accept the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ because there is no other way of salvation that the True God YHWH has provided.

well barn, id say you still gotta fit this v in there somewhere eh
Deuteronomy 24:16 Lexicon: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

or, if you prefer that NT,
2 Corinthians 5:10 Lexicon: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. (biblehub.com)

 

[bbyrd009]

What is the Price Jesus Paid?
Divesting himself for eternity for the sake of love.
His identification with human limitations as far as we know has no precedent in other of his creation.

interestingly, the price “Jesus” paid cannot be Quoted i guess, at least without “Christ” in there, Christ died for our sins, and as you infer in part two, all previous Christs/Messiahs claimed deity, even down to the most (then) recent, Caesar. And so, while it might be hard to interpret, the identification with “human” (the stone the builders reject, i guess) was quite ingenious, and i guess even required Yah’s help, as previously entire populations only considered the possibility of getting their Messiah into immortality? Didnt even consider it for themselves i guess, iow