WHAT IS THE SIN UNTO DEATH?

[Waiting on him]

This sin has NOTHING to do with Jesus, nor the Father, but with the Spirit of God alone. It involves the word BLASPHEMY, and broken down in two parts is blapsis, or injurious, and the second part of the word, phemi, to speak. So, it is not something one does, or believes, but what one SAYS. Matthew begins with verse 31: "Wherefore I say unto you, ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: But the Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Verse 32. And WHOSOEVER speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever SPEAKS against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him... In Mark 3:28-30 repeats the general warning but includes an example in verse 30- BECAUSE, they SAID, He has an UNCLEAN spirit. The scripture reveals it is something we say, and that against the Spirit of God, and is not about faith or unbelief etc.

Welcome to the forum James.

 

[CharismaticLady]

marks said: ↑

What do I believe about justification? Do you know?



In a nutshell . . . our justification is this.

When we trust in Jesus, we are joined to Him in His death, and in His resurrection. The death due us for having sinned is accomplished. So then, having died, we no longer die again. In joining in His resurrection, we are raised sinless creatures who are newly born from God. So we are forever separated from our sin, by death, in that who we were died, and by life, in that we are newly alive, and holy and righteous, without sin.

In the words of Paul in Romans 6, the one who has died is justified away from sin. Forgiven through Jesus death, and righteous through Jesus' life.

So what I'm wondering is if you can articulate my view in your own words.

Much love!

I doubt I could say it better. We are freed from our past sin, and empowered to be sinless going forward.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Here is a little bit of teaching regarding one thing you questioned about in your Thread.

"sin"... "Unto " = "death".

Again.... the bible is speaking spiritually, and not in the secular or worldly sense.

So, why can't you pray for this sin to be forgiven?

That is the CLUE the spiritually identifies this specific sin.

Let me show you who committed this sin.

"you have crucified Christ afresh".. "you have trodden underfoot the sanctifying blood", "you have tasted the heavenly gift,, "you have sinned willfully"...

See all that ? That is Paul defining the consequence of what these Jews are doing when he has just given them the chance to believe on Messiah, and they REJECT THEIR MESSIAH.
He does this in Hebrews 10 and again in Acts 28

Notice what he says happens, when they rejected Christ.......

So, that is the "unpardonable sin"... they committed.
This is the ONE SIN, that can't be forgiven, because this ONE SIN, rejects the only way to be forgiven of all sin.
So, if you reject Pardon, you dont GET PARDONED.
If you reject forgiveness, you DIE unforgiven.
If you reject CHRIST, you die a CHRIST REJECTOR.
This is the "unpardonable sin".....and there is no need to pray for this, because this sin can't be forgiven.
"i do not say that you should (make a request) (pray for it).
This is the sin that follows you into heaven, after you die.

See, unbelievers believe that if you are good enough, God will let you in to heaven.
Heretical Christians are of the same carnal belief.
Baby Christians, who are not mature, think that there are many sins that God is going to send you to hell for., when in fact, its just one.
1.) The sin of dying UNFORGIVEN....= The Unpardonable Sin = Christ Rejector.

Now look at this verse below..
This verse tells you that the Christ Rejector (The Unbeliever) is already DAMNED, while they are on earth, breathing.
"Hell", "the lake of Fire", "Revelation 20:11" "death", "outer darkness".."the 2nd Death"... is what they END UP WITH after they die, but their damnation that sent them there, was already on them, when they were Christ Rejectors, on earth.
They, and WE, were all damned until WE were delivered from the "2nd Death", or "Death" as your Thread is talking about, by the Blood of Yeshua.
Unbelievers are not delivered from this "Death", they are in fact heading for it, and are currently DAMNED for Eternity, already.
Notice that the WRATH of GOD is ON them , right now..... already..

John 3:36

""""Al that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and All that believeth not the Son.... shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on them all."

The description of this sin you are saying is if you die, having rejected Christ, there is no pardon, so we can't pray for someone who is dead to be saved. That is not this sin. We can always pray for the unsaved until it is too late for them - death. Look at Jeffrey Dahmer. He is saved and in heaven right now.

The sin unto death is what you quoted, but thought it only applied to the Jews. Wrong. It is willfully apostatizing and turning away from Christ having once been a believer and filled with Christ's Spirit.

Hebrews 10:26-39 and

2 Peter 2:18-22 It is not just those who apostatize, but those who fall for false teachers who teach no amount of sinning can separate you from God, so they give up their holiness for debauchery. They are no longer on the path to salvation. They have returned to perdition.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

cc: @marks

 

[CharismaticLady]

I agree.

The pharisees, not wanting to believe Jesus, claimed His power was from an evil or unclean spirit. And that was what was unforgiveable.

Much love!

A lot of Cessationists say the same thing about those with the gifts of the Holy Spirit today.

 

[marks]

I doubt I could say it better. We are freed from our past sin, and empowered to be sinless going forward.

'Empowered to be sinless' sounds to me like it's making a change to the existing being, rather that that we are a new creation. As if the flesh were being improved, and can now be better.

Rather, we are born from God, created brand new, patterned after Him, righteous and holy.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

'Empowered to be sinless' sounds to me like it's making a change to the existing being, rather that that we are a new creation. As if the flesh were being improved, and can now be better.

Rather, we are born from God, created brand new, patterned after Him, righteous and holy.

Much love!

Not the body; what Paul calls the flesh is our nature. "We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit..."

Romans 8:
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Here Paul talks of the two things, the body and the flesh/nature, and doesn't want you to get them confused, and mistake one for the other, like you seem to be doing.

 

[marks]

Here Paul talks of the two kinds of flesh and doesn't want you to get them confused,

I don't think there are two kinds of flesh.

1 Corinthians 15
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

We are in our natural body, albeit corrupted by sin, and later we will be in our spiritual body.

I think the mistake is to not realize that the corrupt flesh is exactly that. It is flesh that is corrupted.

Much love!

 

[marks]

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin,

Why does he say, the body is dead because of sin?

 

[marks]

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

What ever is this body of sin? Could it be our bodies of flesh, corrupted by sin?

 

[marks]

Not the body of flesh, but what Paul calls the flesh as our nature. "We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit..."

We are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit . . .

We no longer find our life as beings brought to life by virtue of being in these bodies, rather, we are beings brought to life by virtue of being in God's Spirit.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't think there are two kinds of flesh.

1 Corinthians 15
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

We are in our natural body, albeit corrupted by sin, and later we will be in our spiritual body.

Romans 8:
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Here Paul talks of the two things, the body and the flesh/nature, and doesn't want you to get them confused, and mistake one for the other, like you seem to be doing.

You are calling the flesh, the body, and visa versa, as if they are one and the same. So look at Romans 8:9? Are they out of their body and in the Spirit, like astro-projection? No. They are born of the Spirit - their nature is born again to partake of the divine nature 2 Peter 1:2-4.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[marks]

2 Peter 2:18-22 It is not just those who apostatize, but those who fall for false teachers who teach no amount of sinning can separate you from God, so they give up their holiness for debauchery. They are no longer on the path to salvation. They have returned to perdition.

Look at the context . . . and who Peter is speaking of . . .

This is who he's talking about:

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

These are not children of God.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Look at the context . . . and who Peter is speaking of . . .

This is who he's talking about:

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

These are not children of God.

Much love!

Wrong, you are way above the context. I know you want to save your man-made doctrine of OSAS, but I'm afraid we still have free will.

2 Peter 1:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 2:
12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

Revelation 2:
14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

 

[marks]

Wrong, you are way above the context. I know you want to save your man-made doctrine of OSAS, but I'm afraid we still have free will.

You know, you continue to ascribe motives to me, and including this above of intellectual dishonesty . . . "I know you want to save your man-made doctrine". It's not real. It's not useful. And it gets old.

 

[Behold]

Look at Jeffrey Dahmer. He is saved and in heaven right now.

We can always pray, and should.
But this particular sin,'"the sin unto death"... there is no need.
This sin is not talking about cancer, or some terminal illness, and that "death" is not the death of the human body.
This sin is 'UNTO"...its perpetual, will not remit, cannot be resolved by Prayer.
Its more then the "seared conscience", issue, this is a hardened determined no way back.
This is why Paul told those Hebrews..>"ok then....DONE......"
I"ll take the Gospel of Messiah to the GENTILES, as there is no more sacrifice left for YOU"
= No more prayer needed for them, dont even try it. as there is no more sacrifice left when you willfully sin this sin, as those Hebrews knowingly were doing.
They "crucified Christ Afresh"....
This means that they committed the same KNOWING Sin, as their elders who were so jealous, so envious of The Lord, that they decided to not believe.
So that is different then, say.... the garden variety idiot Atheist who is just caught up in the flow of Atheistic ideas.

These were religious Jews. They were all about GOD stuff, and here is God walking on water, raising the dead, feeding 15,000, casting out demons, in front of them, for 3+ yrs.
They KNEW to look for "signs", as "Jews require a Sign", and Jesus did so many that the NT can't contain them all, and they SAW IT and they KNEW AND THEY would not have Him.
So, you don't pray for that one, as that one is beyond prayer.

 

[Behold]

You know, you continue to ascribe motives to me, and including this above of intellectual dishonesty . . . "I know you want to save your man-made doctrine". It's not real. It's not useful. And it gets old.

How true.

 

[Behold]

This sin has NOTHING to do with Jesus, nor the Father, but with the Spirit of God alone. It involves the word BLASPHEMY, and broken down in two parts is blapsis, or injurious, and the second part of the word, phemi, to speak. So, it is not something one does, or believes, but what one SAYS. Matthew begins with verse 31: "Wherefore I say unto you, ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: But the Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Verse 32. And WHOSOEVER speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever SPEAKS against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him... In Mark 3:28-30 repeats the general warning but includes an example in verse 30- BECAUSE, they SAID, He has an UNCLEAN spirit. The scripture reveals it is something we say, and that against the Spirit of God, and is not about faith or unbelief etc.

Those verses are talking about people who were in the presence of Jesus, saw His miracles, and then said to Him...>"you are doing those works by the power of the Devil".
So, a Christian can't commit this particular sin, nor can an unbeliever.
You'd literally have to travel back in time, and say to Jesus in person....>"you are doing that by the power of the Devil".
This is blasphemy AGAINST the HS, which is different then Blasphemy OF the Holy Spirit.

An example of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would be...... Lets say you are an atheist, and you have a friend who is been going to church and you can tell they are being affected by these services.
So, you decide to try to talk them out of going anymore.
In this way, you are trying to prevent them from getting saved.
That would be Blasphemy OF The Holy Spirit.
One Example.

 

[Waiting on him]

Galatians 3:3 KJV
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[CharismaticLady]

charismaticlady, asked me if was a fornicator, more then once.
Can you imagine a woman asking me this on a Christian forum?
Thats bizarre behavior.
Was a first for me...
So, she's a bit "out there".. somewhere...
Pay her very little attention is the best thing you can do for her.
But, of course if she's attacking you by misrepresenting your words, then you have to deal with it for a bit.....unfortunately.

It is because it is the most common willful sin of Christians, and why sexual sins are the most warned about in the New Testament.

 

[Waiting on him]

I once heard a very wise man explain as to how it's the natural man to assume that every one exists and thinks as they do.

To the liar they assume everyone is a liar
To the sexual deviant they assume everyone is a sexual deviant.etc,etc