WHAT IS THE SIN UNTO DEATH?

[marks]

We are under the law of the Spirit. Those under this law don't commit murder in the first place. That should have been your answer, because that is what I thought you believed. I guess you are like Behold.

You're the one that came up with an hypothetical situation. What did I say?

Hypotheticals . . . sigh!

OK. God chastens His children. God's chastening is effective, and produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

I'm not sure your hypothetical is possible in real life.

That's the problem with hypothetical situations. They aren't real. And you can turn them whichever way you like.

What else did I say?

So that you can impeach my teaching of complete forgiveness of sin based on an imaginary scenario that doesn't even fit to Scripture?

I try in good faith to answer your hypothetical situation, so you can spring your trap.

Well done.

Now.

What about hatred? Do you consider this the same? God does. Do you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I've been reading what your last few posts were, but I want to wait for your answer to my last post #143.

I still don't think that you understand what I believe.

 

[marks]

I believe when we were justified and all our past sins were forgiven, at the same time we were sanctified, set apart unto good works. You see, I no longer believe the process we go through during our life is called sanctification like most of the Church does. I kept seeing it as past tense, so I asked God, and He called the process, "Glorification." Study 2 Peter 1:2-11.

And so now . . . to be clear . . . you only do the good works of . . .

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

This is correct?

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

Many believe glorification is future, but I believe that is the divine nature that we partake of NOW.

Did you read 2 Peter 1:2-11?

Yes, I read it and even though we partake of the divine nature now, we still have our fleshly bodies and I still believe that glorification is future. We have not yet received our glorified bodies. That will take place at the resurrection.

 

[Behold]

I understand that we are initially sanctified in which we are set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, (past tense) but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Yet I also see ongoing sanctification in a practical sense in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness in order to progress onward to maturity in Christ. I believe that glorification comes when we receive our glorified bodies. (Romans 8:23, 30; 1 Corinthians 15:51-56)

Your salvation is God's blood that saved you.
Your discipleship follows your salvation, and is your effort, + God's help., that does not affect your salvation.

Salvation is not discipleship.
discipleship = follows salvation...

Think of it like this...
Lets say you join the army..
well, you SIGNED UP....= you are in the army, because you signed up, and were ACCEPTED... = That is salvation.
You, gave God your faith, = you signed up, and God accepted your faith, = you are BORN AGAIN.
So, did you work for that?
Was trying not to fornicate or lie, a part of that process?
NOPE.

So, following signing up, you get a UNIFORM....So, lets call that "water baptism"....
The uniform is now a representation of BEING IN The army., but you are in it, because you signed up, and were ACCEPTED.
See, you can buy a army uniform and not be in the army. And you can be water baptized, and NOT BE BORN AGAIN.

Now, you are in the army, and you learn how to Drill, you learn how to march, you learn how to behave as a soldier.
but all this is not WHY you are in the Army, its just what you do because you are IN ..
= Discipleship.

 

[Behold]

Many believe glorification is future, but I believe that is the divine nature that we partake of NOW.

Earlier you said that glorification is a process.
Make up your minds.

 

[Nancy]

Here's something . . .

Mark 3
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

2 Corinthians 5
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John 1
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 5
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The way this all reads to me is that Jesus took all the sins of the world onto Himself, and when He died, they were removed from us.

We were reconciled to God, all of us, through Jesus' death, because He died for the sin of all humanity. All sins forgiven mankind as God is no longer imputing sins to us.

Only that one caveat, speaking evil of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps this was because they were rejecting the very works which were so overwhelmingly given by the Father to prove Jesus was Who He claimed to be.

We know He's from God, no one else could to the works He does!

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Much love!

Yes! and... "Only that one caveat, speaking evil of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps this was because they were rejecting the very works which were so overwhelmingly given by the Father to prove Jesus was Who He claimed to be."
BINGO!

 

[farouk]

Yes! and... "Only that one caveat, speaking evil of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps this was because they were rejecting the very works which were so overwhelmingly given by the Father to prove Jesus was Who He claimed to be."
BINGO!

@Nancy Yes, I'm sure this is true...

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy,

I think that there is a point a no return for some. I also see it here:

2 Thessalonians 2
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

And here:

Romans 1
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

People who are so resolved in their sin that God gives them up to it. Or at the end of the age, when God breaks their minds so they can't think right.

In both cases, as I understand it, these are people who will spend the remainder of their lives in their sins, without hope, having already been judged.

Much love!

"In both cases, as I understand it, these are people who will spend the remainder of their lives in their sins, without hope, having already been judged."

Sadly, yes...I agree

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, I read it and even though we partake of the divine nature now, we still have our fleshly bodies and I still believe that glorification is future. We have not yet received our glorified bodies. That will take place at the resurrection.

Correct. To partake of the divine nature means (1) to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, (2) to be born of the Spirit, born of God, born from above, born again, and (3) to receive the new nature through the quickened spirit -- "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature (creation"). Which includes the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Glorification means not only the total perfection of the saints (when the sin nature is eradicated) but the receiving of new, immortal, glorified bodies which literally radiate light. Paul calls it "a spiritual body" (1 Cor 15:44) which is "raised in glory" (made glorious) (1 Cor 15:43).

Christ appeared to the apostle John in His glorious and glorified body in Revelation 1, and this was similar to His body at the transfiguration of Christ. Since all the saints will perfectly resemble Christ (perfected in body, soul, and spirit), they too will radiate light (just as do the angels).

But people should not confuse justification with sanctification, and sanctification with glorification. They are all different but connected.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I still don't think that you understand what I believe.

I thought I did until you said you were on the same page with Behold.

 

[CharismaticLady]

And so now . . . to be clear . . . you only do the good works of . . .

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

This is correct?

Much love!

according to my nature.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Salvation is not a process, charismatic lady.
so, whatever voice told you that the eternal redemption that is gained by Christ and is FREELY given as the gift of righteousness, " is a process", is not God's voice.
You might consider casting it out.
Really.
If not... Dont listen to it anymore.

Glorification is becoming perfect. We are already sinless.

 

[mailmandan]

Your salvation is God's blood that saved you.
Your discipleship follows your salvation, and is your effort, + God's help., that does not affect your salvation.

Salvation is not discipleship.
discipleship = follows salvation...

Think of it like this...
Lets say you join the army..
well, you SIGNED UP....= you are in the army, because you signed up, and were ACCEPTED... = That is salvation.
You, gave God your faith, = you signed up, and God accepted your faith, = you are BORN AGAIN.
So, did you work for that?
Was trying not to fornicate or lie, a part of that process?
NOPE.

So, following signing up, you get a UNIFORM....So, lets call that "water baptism"....
The uniform is now a representation of BEING IN The army., but you are in it, because you signed up, and were ACCEPTED.
See, you can buy a army uniform and not be in the army. And you can be water baptized, and NOT BE BORN AGAIN.

Now, you are in the army, and you learn how to Drill, you learn how to march, you learn how to behave as a soldier.
but all this is not WHY you are in the Army, its just what you do because you are IN ..
= Discipleship.

I think I understand what you mean. When a soldier puts on a uniform, he is revealing himself to be a soldier and putting on what he has previously been qualified to wear. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier.

Just like putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications.

If one puts on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not. Conversion first, then afterwards, discipleship.

 

[Nancy]

I think I understand what you mean. When a soldier puts on a uniform, he is revealing himself to be a soldier and putting on what he has previously been qualified to wear. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier.

Just like putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications.

If one puts on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not. Conversion first, then afterwards, discipleship.

Kind of like when Seinfeld wears a mailman's uniform does not make him a mailman
Sry, couldn't help it!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, I read it and even though we partake of the divine nature now, we still have our fleshly bodies and I still believe that glorification is future. We have not yet received our glorified bodies. That will take place at the resurrection.

The glorification process is during our life and has to do with our nature. That becomes perfected now. And our body gets glorified after our resurrection. Paul distinguishes between the flesh and the body. The "flesh" is our old nature. The new man is not in the flesh (the old man's carnal nature) but in the Spirit - the divine nature. Our body is our outward shell that will die eventually, and has to put on immortality, like our nature already did when we were born again.

I say this because the mistake I see many do in interpreting Paul's writings is equating the flesh with the outer body, when it has to do with our inward old carnal nature, i.e, the deeds of the flesh, or fulfilling the lust of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21. Again, when we are out of that flesh and in the Spirit, we are in the new inward divine nature.

 

[Nancy]

I believe when we were justified and all our past sins were forgiven, at the same time we were sanctified, set apart unto good works. You see, I no longer believe the process we go through during our life is called sanctification like most of the Church does. I kept seeing it as past tense, so I asked God, and He called the process, "Glorification." Study 2 Peter 1:2-11.

"at the same time we were sanctified, set apart unto good works. You see, I no longer believe the process we go through during our life is called sanctification like most of the Church does. I kept seeing it as past tense"

Hi CL,
I used to believe sanctification was a process too but, no longer as how do we get around the scriptures stating it has already taken place and yes, set apart as you say.

1Cor.6:11
"Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

Hebrews 10:10
"By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

 

[CharismaticLady]

"at the same time we were sanctified, set apart unto good works. You see, I no longer believe the process we go through during our life is called sanctification like most of the Church does. I kept seeing it as past tense"

Hi CL,
I used to believe sanctification was a process too but, no longer as how do we get around the scriptures stating it has already taken place and yes, set apart as you say.

1Cor.6:11
"Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

Hebrews 10:10
"By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Yes, isn't it nice to have a functioning brain?

 

[Nancy]

We avoid verses like this quite often Nancy because we do not like facing the facts. There are two aspects to this verse. One is the link with the Old Testament where God said many times that his wrath was poured out on his people because of their sin but they were saved from it because someone prayed. The occasions we are talking about was when they sinned on a regular basis. Not a one-off sin.

The other is that the scripture indicates that you can lose your salvation if you are determined to turn your back on the Lord with continuous sinning.

Mark 3:28 says Truly I say to you, All the sins will be forgiven to the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they have blasphemed; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit has no remission unto the age, but is liable to eternal judgment. People have asked what is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit and from what I have deduced it is calling the work of the Holy Spirit the work of Satan.

And Hebrews 6:4 says For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame. Note here it says "It is impossible for them to renew to repentance..."

And 2 Peter 2v20 says For if by a recognition of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, they have escaped the defilements of the world, and again being entangled they have been overcome by these, then their last things have become worse than the first. For it was better for them not to have recognized the way of righteousness than having recognized it to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

I get the impression that from 1 John 5:16 it is possible to pray a person back from the brink but when they get to a point beyond redemption, they deserve everything they get so to speak and they are not worth wasting time on because they know what the truth is but have chosen to reject it.

Agreed. Ty.

 

[Nancy]

Yes, isn't it nice to have a functioning brain?

I have my moments