What is wrong with this picture?

[GodsGrace]

There many more OT verses, but they are not going to change this. N.T.?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Children cannot believe?

God is not killing the children. Their parents do it as they do it to themselves...

Why do parents continue in sins that they already know will hurt their children? It hurts them here and now. For the children of unsaved parents there is no hereafter.



No lies on Jesus' part. What does the scripture say?

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov 22:6

How do unsaved parents bring up their children? Where is their love?



No, people kill children. They always have with the exceptions of those who tried to train them as they should.



Yes, God has a plan, but from what I understand of the plan, forget about eternal torment. Now perhaps you understand better why annihilation is for me a better way to go. Search the scriptures. There is an undying flame. God is the consuming fire, but He only consumes the twisted things that men have twisted. The children simply die and return to the earth from which they came. No more suffering for them beyond the suffering that men put upon them while they were here in their innocent vulnerable bodies of flesh.

I won't deny the possibility of what you desire for the children, but I cannot see it in the scripture.

P.S.

I've said this before...
We cannot learn everything just from reading scripture.
There are many verses that are really difficult to understand.
Some studyìng must accompany reading our bible.
OR
people come up with some pretty odd ideas,,,
such as the ones above.

 

[amadeus]

P.S.

I've said this before...
We cannot learn everything just from reading scripture.

No, we cannot. We can only learn from it what God wants us to learn.

There are many verses that are really difficult to understand.
Some studyìng must accompany reading our bible.
OR
people come up with some pretty odd ideas,,,
such as the ones above.

Odd or not, it makes us realize that it is unlikely that any man has or any men have all of the answers. God wants us to trust Him and I do. I purposely usually avoid getting into a discussion on this issue because I don't like my own answer and God to this point has not given me another one. I won't follow another man's, no matter what his credentials, just because it seems in some way to be an easier solution. Still...

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

And let us leave this point of discussion there until and if God shows us something else.

 

[Helen]

I agree ByGrace.
But even what got muddled is not correct doctrine for mainline Christianity...

You know me...I don't 'mail line' anything much at all. lol

I am somewhat losing the plot here...what are we talking about now?

 

[bbyrd009]

You know me...I don't 'mail line' anything much at all. lol

I am somewhat losing the plot here...what are we talking about now?

whether God prefers His babies roasted or deep fried, i think?

 

[amadeus]

whether God prefers His babies roasted or deep fried, i think?

Yes, something like that, but it is quite serious, I believe. Even if I am wrong in my conclusions, there is no doubt that what a parent does or does not do makes a great deal of difference to a child.

 

[amadeus]

Job..No one said there wasn't children...and also @amadeus you mentioned children getting stone with the sins of the fathers...
What was mentioned earlier in the thread was children and babies and mentally handicapped going to HELL which is MUCH different than dying a natural death.
That is not apples to apples...that is apples to oranges!!

None of us clearly understand why many 'good' people die young...but we were not talking about THIS life...but the next life.
The waters have got muddied here in this discussion...

As you already know I do not believe in eternal torment for anyone, much less for children or others who never attained a point where they were really accountable. My use of the OT was for types and shadows of what the truth of the matter is when we have left this temporal world. In this world of men there is pain and suffering and for too many who are unable to cope, it is certainly not a good thing. People could make it better, but generally speaking people never have and they never will. But that is not in what we might call the hereafter.

 

[Job]

Job..No one said there wasn't children...and also @amadeus you mentioned children getting stone with the sins of the fathers...
What was mentioned earlier in the thread was children and babies and mentally handicapped going to HELL which is MUCH different than dying a natural death.
That is not apples to apples...that is apples to oranges!!

None of us clearly understand why many 'good' people die young...but we were not talking about THIS life...but the next life.
The waters have got muddied here in this discussion...

My comment was in response to this. "God does not kill children".

 

[Job]

Is it me???
We're talking about mentally disabled persons.
You're quoting scripture that's for NORMAL people.

Show me where the bible differentiates between to two.

Did you read my verses?
Those are the ones to use, not what you have above.
You believe a mentally retarded person is going to hell because he couldn't be a DOER of the word?

You're arguing with scripture. I didn't say anything in that post. I made sure of that, because I knew this is exactly where you were going.

You're letting your emotions cloud your understanding. Go back and read those passages again. You'll see there is no mention of anyone going to hell.

k

 

[tabletalk]

Deuteronomy 3: “Then we turned and went up the road to Bashan; and Og king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. 2. And the Lord said to me, ‘Do not fear him, for I have delivered him and all his people and his land into your hand; you shall do to him as you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who dwelt at Heshbon.’

3. “So the Lord our God also delivered into our hands Og king of Bashan, with all his people, and we attacked him until he had no survivors remaining. 4. And we took all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we did not take from them: sixty cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5. All these cities were fortified with high walls, gates, and bars, besides a great many rural towns. 6. And we utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children of every city. 7. But all the livestock and the spoil of the cities we took as booty for ourselves.

 

[Job]

Why would God make humans only to sweep them away after some generations?

Was He dumb?

Genesis 6
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

 

[Job]

You know me...I don't 'mail line' anything much at all. lol

I am somewhat losing the plot here...what are we talking about now?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What are you talking about?
How do you compare the above mentioned with the mentally disabled??

We all have a sin nature.

Are you saying we don't all have to be a doer of the word?

 

[GodsGrace]

Genesis 6
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

Verse 6..
Does that sound like an omniscient God to you?
Do you think God didn't know what He was doing?
How to reconcile....
Do you think God sat at a desk and wrote the OT?

But we can know John 3:16
For God so loved the world...

 

[GodsGrace]

We all have a sin nature.

Are you saying we don't all have to be a doer of the word?

Ummmm.
Let's see...
Can an autistic person be a doer of the word?
No?

Then my answer is Yes.

 

[GodsGrace]

Show me where the bible differentiates between to two.




You're arguing with scripture. I didn't say anything in that post. I made sure of that, because I knew this is exactly where you were going.

You're letting your emotions cloud your understanding. Go back and read those passages again. You'll see there is no mention of anyone going to hell.

k

Ah.
No hell.
No consequence.
Easy.
Thought Jesus spoke of hell.
Is it that "destroyed" word again?
We make up doctrine - by - word now?

Why can you not accept hell because it's too gruesome
But you have no problem not saving the unaccountable?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ummmm.
Let's see...
Can an autistic person be a doer of the word?
No?

Then my answer is Yes.

I agree.

 

[GodsGrace]

Show me where the bible differentiates between to two.




You're arguing with scripture. I didn't say anything in that post. I made sure of that, because I knew this is exactly where you were going.

You're letting your emotions cloud your understanding. Go back and read those passages again. You'll see there is no mention of anyone going to hell.

k

You used incorrect support scripture.
It made no sense.
Exegete ... If you think it's correct.
Correlate to the unaccountable.

 

[Job]

Verse 6..
Does that sound like an omniscient God to you?
Do you think God didn't know what He was doing?
How to reconcile....
Do you think God sat at a desk and wrote the OT?

But we can know John 3:16
For God so loved the world...

You're arguing with the scriptures again.

You asked a question and the answer came from the scriptures.

I answer many questions in that fashion.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, we cannot. We can only learn from it what God wants us to learn.


Odd or not, it makes us realize that it is unlikely that any man has or any men have all of the answers. God wants us to trust Him and I do. I purposely usually avoid getting into a discussion on this issue because I don't like my own answer and God to this point has not given me another one. I won't follow another man's, no matter what his credentials, just because it seems in some way to be an easier solution. Still...

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

And let us leave this point of discussion there until and if God shows us something else.

No Amadeus...
YOUR solution is the easy solution because you can't accept the truth.
Read John 5:28-29 and tell me what it means.

 

[Job]

Ah.
No hell.
No consequence.
Easy.
Thought Jesus spoke of hell.
Is it that "destroyed" word again?
We make up doctrine - by - word now?

Why can you not accept hell because it's too gruesome
But you have no problem not saving the unaccountable?

That's not an answer.