What Keeps Us From Sinning In Heaven?

[BarneyFife]

Don't try to use human reasoning to understand spiritual truths.

All of the spiritualization of concrete, absolute truth is actually what causes the difficulties. It is a result of applying a Hellenistic Dualist interpretation on figurative/symbolic passages, which are very plentiful in the letterss of Paul, since he was often dealing with minds which had predispositions to that kind of thought. We do not have souls; we are souls.

Gen 2:7 KJV And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

 

[BarneyFife]

What does this have to do with the OP? Why do threads descend to this level and go off topic?

The title of the thread should have been "Why is sin TOTALLY EXCLUDED from Heaven?". That would resolve all related issues.

What I'm looking for (if it matters) is "how?"

 

[Waiting on him]

What I'm looking for (if it matters) is "how?"

My opinion, by death.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes. That is exactly what I am talking about. Sin is impossible within Heaven, since God has now made it so.

Correct. No unredeemed sinners can ever enter Heaven.

Actual righteousness and holiness are required in the people of God, but it is only the robe of the righteousness of Christ (called fine linen, white and clean) that makes it possible for even the redeemed and obedient saints to enter Heaven. That is the lesson from the parable of the Gospel feast. That "wedding garment" is indeed the righteousness of Christ, therefore the saints are the Bride of Christ and will become the Wife of the Lamb.

Looks like we are on the same page here. I wonder why we aren't always???

 

[mjrhealth]

What I'm looking for (if it matters) is "how?"

I suppose you should ask teh question, is teh righteousness of Christ Sin, because it is by His righteousness we will enter in.

 

[mjrhealth]

What does this have to do with the OP? Why do threads descend to this level and go off topic?

The title of the thread should have been "Why is sin TOTALLY EXCLUDED from Heaven?". That would resolve all related issues.

I suppose the same thing that He raised, what has it to do with the OP. I just showed him the better way.

 

[Waiting on him]

I suppose you should ask teh question, is teh righteousness of Christ Sin, because it is by His righteousness we will enter in.

Interesting In Hebrews it’s states that We enter through His flesh?

 

[Truther]

"but I am carnal, sold under sin."

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Your verses you are holding on to for some reason are those who know and abide by the Law of Moses. Romans 7:1 There are Christians who know about Jesus and want Him to save them from the punishment of hell, who still only know the Ten Commandments and abide by them in their own strength, but they still don't know the power of God living inside them freeing them from the reason for the Law in the first place - SIN, and the lust of the flesh. The law is not written on their hearts. For them you are right - "the sin nature is at active war against the spirit man..." But that "spirit man" is not yet a partaker of the divine nature. That takes the power of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:2 "For the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ, has FREED ME from the law of SIN AND DEATH.

Jesus not only freed us from Adam's curse of "the wages of sin is death," but gives us life eternally.

Let me explain the Biblical position that the early church taught.

They taught the Law is still active to deal with sin and carnality, and that only saints that walk in the Spirit can be free from the active Law.

They taught every human being is born under the governance of the Law and must be personally freed from it via the born againexperience of Acts 2:38 etc.

They taught that if a saint backslides, they fall back under the schoolmaster(Law) from which they came.

So, sin and carnality is governed by the Law, which kills everyone's flesh eventually.

And only the spirit is saved.

An example of this is the naughty man of Corinth that Paul turned over to satan for the destruction of his flesh so his spirit could be saved....

 

[Truther]

He is a backslider. But there was a time when he was a pastor. I do not believe in OSAS, as some do about backsliders, but I will err on the side of God's Word.

10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

I'll keep my part, whether he ever repents or not.

Which is better.

No bossy man to run you off the forum...LOL

 

[CharismaticLady]

An example of this is the naughty man of Corinth that Paul turned over to satan for the destruction of his flesh so his spirit could be saved....

I think you know what this means, unlike some others on this forum. It means for the destruction of the carnal nature - the unsaved nature of a carnal person. This person was in their midst, but was not a true believer. He needed to be excommunicated because evidently he was not new to them and seeking salvation; he called himself a believer.

1 Cor. 5:
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

 

[Truther]

I think you know what this means, unlike some others on this forum. It means for the destruction of the carnal nature - the unsaved nature of a carnal person. This person was in their midst, but was not a true believer. He needed to be excommunicated because evidently he was not new to them and seeking salvation; he called himself a believer.

1 Cor. 5:
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

The man in Corinth was specifically to have his flesh destroyed by satan, not his "nature"....


5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Annanias and Saffira could attest to that.

 

[amadeus]

Not the ears and eyes and tongue of Christ; for He is without sin.

I haven't said otherwise!

 

[amadeus]

I attended a church in South Carolina that had it down to a science, as pertaining to letting the Holy Spirit take control of the service. One of the primary worship songs, sung every service, had the repetitive words, "Come and take control," as the young people danced in the Spirit; and then there was often a platform for anyone to speak; and it was always led of the Holy Spirit.

While it may have been an occurrence, it never did occur that a person became embarrassed over having said the wrong thing and then be corrected by another who knew the word better. I believe that the possibility of such an occurrence inhibited people from speaking who didn't know their Bibles well enough. But that all worked out for the good; because it provided for perfect freedom to those who did know their Bibles well enough to speak with authority as the Spirit led the service.

I believe that the Lord Himself kept things in order so that false doctrine was not preached because of an atmosphere of liberty, in this fashion.

What you describe is good. I hope there are still places like that around... were they are at least trying. I believe God honor a sincere effort in that direction

In a couple of places I attended for years the pulpit was always open for any member or visitor to speak or teach or preach...without receiving approval in advance. Similarly it was open for anyone testify or sing a song at anytime so long no one else was already engaged. When it worked it was very good, unfortunately there are sometimes people in the best appearing places who think they can improve on God [although they would not describe it that way] and they manage to quench the Spirit.

I remember once back in the 1970's the assembly I attended started having prayer meetings 7 nights a week after most of the day worked got off work. For those who could not make the evening meetings, early morning prayer meetings were also held 7 morning a week. It continued non-stop for 7 weeks and the glory of God was in that place. In the beginning I was one of the ones who got weary of the day after to day with no break, but I made myself attend and after a week or so I never wanted it to stop. Finally the pastor was under pressure by members who did not want to continue and he called it off after 7 weeks with no days off.

 

[marks]

I remember once back in the 1970's the assembly I attended started having prayer meetings 7 nights a week after most of the day worked got off work. For those who could not make the evening meetings, early morning prayer meetings were also held 7 morning a week. It continued non-stop for 7 weeks and the glory of God was in that place. In the beginning I was one of the ones who got weary of the day after to day with no break, but I made myself attend and after a week or so I never wanted it to stop. Finally the pastor was under pressure by members who did not want to continue and he called it off after 7 weeks with no days off.

Wonderful testimony! That's the importance of choosing based on our faith.

What the flesh resists, the spirit takes in, and as the spirit is nourished, it's desire overwhelms the desire of the flesh.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

The man in Corinth was specifically to have his flesh destroyed by satan, not his "nature"....


5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Annanias and Saffira could attest to that.

How would Satan go about destroying the man's flesh, exactly?

 

[amadeus]

I'm now 68 and am at present participating in my first ever formal Bible course. I enrolled because a. It's lockdown and b. There's always something new to discover about God and c. There's always deeper things to understand about why we believe what we do. And finally d. I wanted to be able to explain what I believe is truth biblically speaking in a more simple clearer way.
And guess what. Its such fun.

I hear you. Once several years ago I responded along with a friend to an ad in the local newspaper inviting anyone interested to attend an open inter-denominational Bible study group at a private home. We began attending the weekly meetings really enjoying them. Everyone was allowed and encouraged to participate. The home owner moderated a little and he talked a lot, but he did let others talk as well... for a few weeks. After one meeting when most of the people had already left I was walking to the door with the home owner to leave as well. I mentioned to him something about not being able to embrace the Trinity and asked what he thought about it whether we might discuss it at one of the Bible studies. He told me that while he was a Trinitarian, it wouldn't be a problem at all. A couple days later well before the day of the next meeting he called me on the phone and told me I was no longer welcome at the meetings... that my friend and I should not come any more.

He said he would not mind me expressing some non-Trinitarians ideas but he was afraid I would be a bad influence on some of the newer believers attending. He said he told me he would definite contact me later to discuss my ideas with me. He was at work and was unable to talk about it more on the phone. He never did contact me again and being uninvited... I never returned. I was only trying to be honest, but for all his previously expressed intention about having completely open Bible studies where people of different beliefs could discuss differences, he had drawn his line. It was his home so he could, but I was very disappointed. This happened some time before Christian forums on the Internet.

 

[justbyfaith]

I hear you. Once several years ago I responded along with a friend to an ad in the local newspaper inviting anyone interested to attend an open inter-denominational Bible study group at a private home. We began attending the weekly meetings really enjoying them. Everyone was allowed and encouraged to participate. The home owner moderated a little and he talked a lot, but he did let others talk as well... for a few weeks. After one meeting when most of the people had already left I was walking to the door with the home owner to leave as well. I mentioned to him something about not being able to embrace the Trinity and asked what he thought about it whether we might discuss it at one of the Bible studies. He told me that while he was a Trinitarian, it wouldn't be a problem at all. A couple days later well before the day of the next meeting he called me on the phone and told me I was no longer welcome at the meetings... that my friend and I should not come any more.

He said he would not mind me expressing some non-Trinitarians ideas but he was afraid I would be a bad influence on some of the newer believers attending. He said he told me he would definite contact me later to discuss my ideas with me. He was at work and was unable to talk about it more on the phone. He never did contact me again and being uninvited... I never returned. I was only trying to be honest, but for all his previously expressed intention about having completely open Bible studies where people of different beliefs could discuss differences, he had drawn his line. It was his home so he could, but I was very disappointed. This happened some time before Christian forums on the Internet.

I can see where he was coming from as a pastor who was seeking to protect the people underneath him from what he considered to be false doctrine. He may not have had the confidence in his own understanding to where he believed he would be able to answer your questions in an open setting. And he may have been expecting you to call him back to discuss your views in a more private fashion.

I don't think that you were permanently unwelcome.

 

[amadeus]

thought of you this morning and the better resurrection. This stands out Acts 20:8-10 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. [9] And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. [10] And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. Acts 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.

John 6:53-57 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Could this story of the young man, Eutychus, also a physical occurrence written purposely in the Bible as one of those types or shadows or a parable for us? He was dead and Paul brought about his resurrection. He was listening to a message from God and fell asleep. If he hearing before with understanding. Perhaps he had already been born from above, but then he fell asleep no longer able to hear the voice of God. Paul brought him then to a better place via a better resurrection.

Compare this to when Peter was walking on the water toward Jesus but then looked away and began to sink into the death beneath his feet. He needed also to be lifted up once more from a place of death. Sinking, he called out to Jesus and Jesus lifted him up again.

 

[marks]

How would Satan go about destroying the man's flesh, exactly?

Does this say Satan is the one destroying the flesh? Perhaps as a side effect of what Satan does?

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Looks like we are on the same page here. I wonder why we aren't always???

We should be.