What makes a doctrine false?

[Michiah-Imla]

that is just another way of saying interpretation, as even a gross distortion of scripture is a form of interpretation.

Interpretation:

“The act of expounding or unfolding what is not understood or not obvious”

And I say everything that matters, to be in right standing with God and men, is clear and unambiguous in scripture.

But men divide over hidden and ambiguous things in scripture!

Denominations exist over unclear things in scripture by and large.

Then of course you have your cults that bring in inordinate doctrines that are totally outside biblical bounds…

 

[brightfame52]

Whose efficacy and to what end? What I see you saying is "Anything that takes away from the saving efficacy of Jesus to save ME is a false doctrine. That would be your baseline to judge EVERYTHING by. (So many here do that very thing). So then if Jesus tells you...you are "poor, naked, wretched, and blind"...then that goes against your primary doctrinal premise..therefore you will reject those saving words of Jesus because of it.

Or am I getting you wrong? Are you are willing to be rebuked, chastened, and even despair of the salvation provision of God...or not? Do you have faith or religious certainty?

Is this about Jesus Christ...or you?

Sure, Christs death saves, it results in conversion to God 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[brightfame52]

I agree.
But I suppose others might disagree.
Is doctrine false simply because you don't agree with it?

I just told you why.

 

[St. Joseph]

That's a good example. Something I believe, that you call false.
What does the context at verse 18 and following say? (Abraham)
"Against all hope..."

Yes, God does these things. But they are oftentimes in partnership with us.
Even Jesus said, "... the Son can do nothing by himself... " (scripture below)

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Jesus can create a universe. What can you or i do. If you believe that verse is speaking of you, can you please put a 60s model Rolls Royce in my driveway by lunchtie today?

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus can create a universe. What can you or i do. If you believe that verse is speaking of you, can you please put a 60s model Rolls Royce in my driveway by lunchtie today?

LOL - That's so funny, thanks.
Not really how this works, obviously.

Curious to note that Jesus miraculous powers were limited in his own home town.
Do you recall why that was? (vs 58)

Matthew 13:56-58 NIV
Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”
58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

 

[St. Joseph]

LOL - That's so funny, thanks.
Not really how this works, obviously.

Curious to note that Jesus miraculous powers were limited in his own home town.
Do you recall why that was? (vs 58)

Matthew 13:56-58 NIV
Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”
58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

Yes,Jesus can do anything he desires. He's God. You're not. And can do nothing apart from the Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes,Jesus can do anything he desires. He's God. You're not. And can do nothing apart from the Spirit.

Did Jesus do miracles in his deity, or in his humanity?

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer:
“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing,
because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

 

[St. Joseph]

Did Jesus do miracles in his deity, or in his humanity?

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer:
“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing,
because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

He was 100% God at all times. Even when he was 100%man. He never lost his diety.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:

Did Jesus do miracles in his deity, or in his humanity?

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer:
“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing,
because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

He was 100% God at all times. Even when he was 100%man. He never lost his diety.

Why did he say he could do nothing by himself?

Philippians 2:6-7 NIV
Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God
something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

 

[St. Joseph]

Did Jesus do miracles in his deity, or in his humanity?

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer:
“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing,
because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

He was 100% God at all times. Even when he was 100%man. He never lost his diety.

St. SteVen said:

Did Jesus do miracles in his deity, or in his humanity?

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer:
“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing,
because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Why did he say he could do nothing by himself?

Philippians 2:6-7 NIV
Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God
something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

Same reason he couldnt turn stones to bread.

 

[St. SteVen]

He was 100% God at all times. Even when he was 100%man. He never lost his diety.


Same reason he couldnt turn stones to bread.

How could Jesus give this command if only he could fulfill it in his deity?

Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a]
drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

 

[St. SteVen]

He was 100% God at all times. Even when he was 100%man. He never lost his diety.


Same reason he couldnt turn stones to bread.

What are these "even greater things" that we will be doing?

John 14:12 NIV
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing,
and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[St. SteVen]

Same reason he couldnt turn stones to bread.

Couldn't, or wouldn't?
Five loaves and two fish... became... ???

 

[St. Joseph]

How could Jesus give this command if only he could fulfill it in his deity?

Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a]
drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

Are you wanting or trying to say in a round about way,that you have these powers?

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you wanting or trying to say in a round about way,that you have these powers?

What I am saying is that Jesus was an example of how God uses these powers through us as He wills.
We are a conduit of supernatural power, if we make ourselves available to it. Or not, if we are closed to it.

I pray that God will put an opportunity in your path. When you hear his voice, you can join yourself to it.

 

[Jim B]

Are you wanting or trying to say in a round about way,that you have these powers?

Some people have been given these powers. I was healed in the hospital by a pastor who prayed for me (even though it was actually Jesus who healed me). God gives His gifts to whomever He pleases.

 

[St. Joseph]

Couldn't, or wouldn't?
Five loaves and two fish... became... ??

Tell me. What miracles have you performed?

What I am saying is that Jesus was an example of how God uses these powers through us as He wills.
We are a conduit of supernatural power, if we make ourselves available to it. Or not, if we are closed to it.

I pray that God will put an opportunity in your path. When you hear his voice, you can join yourself to it.

e

 

[St. SteVen]

Tell me. What miracles have you performed?

I have had many opportunities to pray for people in need.
I rarely know the outcome.

But there was one instance where it was clear what happened.

An evening healing service at our church drew a number of people to the front of the church.
The leader had everyone in line turn to the right and lay hands on the person in front of them.
I was at the end of the line so there was no one to pray for me.

However, the man in front of me had come in using a cane. (unusual for him)
He had an injury that he wanted prayer for. He was in a lot of pain.

We were learning an interview style of praying for the sick/injured.
So, I asked him question to get a benchmark to start from.

I prayed for him and then asked him if he felt anything.
He said he felt a tremendous heat on his back where I had been laying hands.
I felt it too, but didn't tell him about it. I wanted to hear from him.

So, we pressed in again and kept at it. Then he reported that the pain was gone.
He left the prayer line and walked around the sanctuary waving the cane in the air.

Reminded me of this. (the Apostle Peter, a mere human)
And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple,
walking, and leaping, and praising God. - Acts 3:8 NIV

The next Sunday morning the healed man testified that he had been healed by God,
and he pointed to me as the one who had prayed for him.

 

[St. Joseph]

I have had many opportunities to pray for people in need.
I rarely know the outcome.

But there was one instance where it was clear what happened.

An evening healing service at our church drew a number of people to the front of the church.
The leader had everyone in line turn to the right and lay hands on the person in front of them.
I was at the end of the line so there was no one to pray for me.

However, the man in front of me had come in using a cane. (unusual for him)
He had an injury that he wanted prayer for. He was in a lot of pain.

We were learning an interview style of praying for the sick/injured.
So, I asked him question to get a benchmark to start from.

I prayed for him and then asked him if he felt anything.
He said he felt a tremendous heat on his back where I had been laying hands.
I felt it too, but didn't tell him about it. I wanted to hear from him.

So, we pressed in again and kept at it. Then he reported that the pain was gone.
He left the prayer line and walked around the sanctuary waving the cane in the air.

Reminded me of this. (the Apostle Peter, a mere human)
And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple,
walking, and leaping, and praising God. - Acts 3:8 NIV

The next Sunday morning the healed man testified that he had been healed by God,
and he pointed to me as the one who had prayed for him.

I have witnessed prayers answered as well. But it was nothing i did or can take credit for.

Actually the gifts the Apostles had were sign gifts. They went out when last apostle died.

 

[Jim B]

I have witnessed prayers answered as well. But it was nothing i did or can take credit for.

Actually the gifts the Apostles had were sign gifts. They went out when last apostle died.

Since I was healed in the hospital in 1977 by a pastor's prayer, I can categorically state that the gifts did not go out when the last apostle died.